Migs

2001-02 was obviously a weird time for the business, but I think you could make the argument that either XPW or CZW were the number 3 in these years. They had strong video distribution and loyal fan bases. Both were obviously pretty limited, but they at least had a place in a lot of the online wrestling discussion at the time. Weirdly, this period before ROH and TNA rose up was sort of a weird territorial era, where very few companies had real reach outside of a region, but were pretty strong within the region.

I think it's hard to have the conversation in the wrestling community because so many of the commenters are dudes. Look at the way Cornette went after Dana Brooke, as opposed to saying "ya know, I don't think this is working for her." Any internet discussion of this is going to be filled with misogny that would drive off a lot of people who could actually contribute.

Feels like there's definitely something to that idea. Trying to get the shows hot enough for their new TV contract while saving the things that can really draw money. The Okada match feels like Hogan wrestling Volkoff for a quick pop on a Saturday Night's Main Event.

Yeah, Lesnar vs. Kofi is at least memorable, if not for great reasons. I was thinking about 2000 - I just can't imagine them doing something as interesting as the episode where Jericho beats HHH and they do the overturn in the same night, for example. Not every match is going to be that memorable, but it's like they're not even trying.

When was the last time WWE did a world title match on free TV? It's weird - a lot of the most memorable moments of the Attitude Era were world title matches done on TV. Not even just the title switches, but it was a well they went to frequently to get a hot main event. And while they may have hotshot too much in those days, they seem to do the exact opposite now, despite saving those matches for PPV meaning less than ever. (They also haven't done a single title change of the top four belts since Wrestlemania, other than one based on a vacancy.)

Well, at least they're getting this Yujiro push done with fast?

If they're doing an EVIL reign, they really need to get these main events back down to 20-25 minutes. No one needs a 35 minute EVIL match. The Dick Togo reveal was wild, though, and might lead to another Bullet Club civil war thing down the line? The tag title match was definitely the match of the night, and a lot of fun. Not a classic, but definitely a unique structure, good build, great finishing sequence. Also, I'm guessing it's definitely going to be a while before we see the gaijin if Yujiro f'n Takahashi gets two pins and lays out Okada. Not looking forward to whatever singles matches come from that.

You know, if you turn Flair babyface after Bash '87, basically replace the Garvin switch with him versus, I dunno, Luger or heel Nikita or something, that's an interesting counterfactual. Make the on-screen relationship between Flair and Dusty not a zero-sum game and maybe it improves the off-screen one?

I'm about 5'11, and in a picture I have with ZSJ, he looks 2-3 inches taller than me. I'd eye ball myself, relatively using the pictures, at 2-3 inches taller than Cole.

He lives in Florida, can't get into the country without a significant quarantine. My assumption has been that they're saving the gaijin for the G1, when there's probably big enough houses to justify flying everyone in early, putting them up, etc.

Yeah, at the very least you'd think they'd use them for "before they were superstars" things for Gargano, Riddle, Gulak, etc. Not sure how careful Evolve was with copyrighted music, which would effect how quickly they put full shows up there.

What's up stays there. I've used both HSN and IWTV, and I do think they both struggle with curation, the "so much content it's hard to make a choice" problem. I think IWTV solves that by having a livestream you can toss on if you can't decide. They've also got more current content, particularly in non-pandemic times.

You pulled the top 3 guys (along with Homicide) who worked a style with any struggle in that period. Watch AJ-Christopher Daniels from '01 or '02. Even mores watch, the SATs, or a ton of other guys who were less good. So much of the work deeply requires cooperation, and you can see the strings. We can joke about Private Party but they're Danielson-level compared to the 2002 ROH mid card. Now, will you find spots that look too cooperative at times today? Of course. You'll see a person waiting in place for a spot at times. You'll see sequences that look a little too smooth. But this is a problem that's getting better, not worse.

Apparently he tweeted something cryptic about his status with MLW, so maybe not?

I'd assume the first main events they did in '85/'86 were fairly scripted. I'm sure the WM V main event was. I'd guess the '89 house show run was probably something they just workshopped and then were able to feel it for the night, because they did it so many times. On that latter point, I'd think that's the answer for why we don't hear about more specific instances of Savage scripting - either he was working with the guy on a house show loop for long enough that they could figure out a match in time, or the matches weren't important enough to spend a month scripting.

I think this talking point is overused today - it's basically a criticism of early-00s indy style that doesn't really apply to most matches you'll see in either major promotion in the last 10 years.

The Pillman thing is interesting because he obviously was fairly close to Teddy Hart for a bit there, might be a tell that he thinks there's some fire to that smoke.

Yeah, I don't think it underwhelmed at all, especially when worked with no crowd. That match feels way different if you have a crowd losing its mind on the Hiromu near-falls, and then being brought up and crushed by the finish. Great match, certainly the best of the tournament.

If we're talking from a pure volume perspective, Styles. Styles was great as early as Bryan was (although Bryan is certainly better in 2001-03, I'd say), but Styles has also never missed significant time to injury and churned out great matches on a consistent basis. I dug through some old TNA this year and was amazed to watch how good Styles was every step of the way but also how much he progressed in the process. Like, you can watch his matches with Daniels and Joe over the years and see them all get better and the matches get deeper as you go. It's kind of amazing. Daniels and Joe are probably good picks for a top 20, Daniels being notable for having great matches literally as soon as this period we're discussing started and still being active and solid, although I'm not sure when I'd say his last truly great match was (maybe 2017 during his title run? Maybe one of the early SCU six mans in 2018?). Wouldn't argue with anyone picking Bryan or Tanahashi, though. Surprised no one has mentioned Jericho, who obviously has some gaps but also has classics at the beginning and end of this period, and a pretty big range of great matches.

Great place to check out Xtremely Serious Wrestling, a New York comedy show that combines top comedy talent (including people who've been on the Chris Gethard show) with a lot of indie workers (Orange Cassidy and Tracy Williams to name two). I think a lot of people here would enjoy it, a lot of the satire really plays to dedicated fans. (And if you check it out and are curious, I'll let you know which character I play!) I do wish IW.TV had a slightly more user friendly interface to move to specific matches - they've added so much content, but I don't really want to watch a lot of full shows, I'm usually looking to dive a bit deeper on a specific performer and that's not easy.

He hasn't announced for them in a while, but he presumably still has decent relationships over there.

Yeah, NJ just being okay with guys they plan on booking signing with Impact would actually be a big step forward in the relationship.

Do you have a reference on this? I think it's a pretty important point in this discussion but I haven't seen it elsewhere.