overbooked

I'm a complete joshi novice, but Dump has been the perfect entry point into 80s AJW. I love when wrestling feels chaotic and out of control, giving you that adrenaline rush from not knowing what is going to come next. Dump is just brilliant at that.

I really value wrestlers who have charisma and a rapport with the fans, and Porky absolutely has that going for him more than most. Just so much fun to watch, a truly joyful wrestler. It's easy to forget he could really work too. Definitely on my list.

I've watched a lot of mid-80s All Japan over the last year or two and Yatsu has been an absolute revelation. I think he was the most consistently entertaining wrestler on the roster during that period, which is high praise in my book considering who else was there at that time. I'm looking forward to properly watching how his career progressed, but he's already on my list one way or another, just from that peak.

This is a great point. It is one thing being one of the best wrestlers in the world when you're surrounded by other world-beaters, it is quite another thing to achieve that in an environment like mid-90s WWF that didn't have the depth of workers or the general booking mindset to support great wrestling. I'm not sure many other wrestlers could have thrived in that environment.

I feel like with the Patterson, Sheik, Backlund matches and the Final Conflict, you could make a pretty good case for Sarge being one of the best Big Match workers in North America, if not the world, in the early 80s. So much fun to watch, made his opponents look superhuman and definitely in my 100.

This is probably a pretty nebulous answer, and an odd answer considering how scuzzy the business can be, but my favourite wrestling has "soul". At its best it both takes me out of my day-to-day struggles and reflects them back like some kind of morality play. It is the wrestling that gives me goosebumps, that makes me laugh, cry, shout out, that makes me *feel*. It is absurd, knows its absurd, but presents itself seriously. It's the primal nature of a lucha brawl, the hidden gems on a WCW undercard, Tenryu's looks of disdain, baying crowds in Puerto Rico, Lance Russell's exasperation at Jimmy Hart, it's when all life is there before us and something that we know doesn't really matter appears to matter like nothing else in the world at that moment in time.

Yep, recent years haven't helped his cause. But while he doesn't have Lucha Longevity, he was still outstanding for over a decade which I think puts him the mix. It does pose an interesting question though - would we look more favourably on him if he just retired 20 years ago?

I'm pretty high on Pirata Morgan. An all-time great brawler, who makes everything so visceral and grimy and real. Super fun bumper. One of the best for making nondescript trios matches fun. Probably the best bleeder. That run of hair matches from around 1988 to 1993 - El Dandy, El Faraon, MS-1, Masakre, Satanico. I'd love more footage of him to crop up to solidify his case, but could easily see him in my top 10.

I really like this idea, although I appreciate it favours consistent workers and those who got to work in places that let them do their best work. At a basic level, it makes projects like these far more accessible to those who either don't have access to all the footage or simply don't have the time to "deep dive". Ten matches feels like a good sample size. If someone doesn't look good after 10 random matches then they probably aren't a realistic candidate.

A serious Top Ten contender for me. All-time great brawler, amazing with schtick, the kind of rudo you can hate so much you wind up loving him, wonderful matches with the likes of Dandy and Morgan, incredible longevity from the first early 80s footage to that early 2000s run where he was one of the best workers in the world, and most importantly the absolute master of low blow psychology.

I don't mean to sound perverse, but I don't think that's a bad thing! It's like he's the fulcrum in tag matches, keeping it simple so everyone else can get the more complex stuff in. And his mannerisms and aura takes those tags beyond just great "work" to something more special. I don't things the crowd goes so nuts in those matches without him.

Over the last year I've watched a lot of his All Japan stuff and agree the singles matches are virtually all skippable, bar the Killer Khan match, and Terry Funk match in October 1986. However, I do think the tag matches are great and while Choshu is rarely the MVP, I do think his charisma helps hold it all together - having super workers like Tenryu and Yatsu bounce off a Proper Star like Choshu just makes everything that more special.

Sangre Chicana/Villano III back in 1983 was shaping up in the first two falls to be something close to Chicana's match with MS1, but then the third fall is incredibly short and a bit screwy and it all falls short of its potential. I think 2/3 falls matches have more scope to disappoint, as there is a built-in expectation that there is going to be a great third act.

All of this! Going back and watching old wrestling I've been surprised how much underwhelming in-ring work I can tolerate if the angles and feuds are good. And how good matches become great matches when there are clear stakes, consequences and a crowd (or viewer) emotionally invested in the outcome. But I think this is a shift in perspective that comes with age. To generalise wildly, I think there is often a "collector" impulse in younger hardcore fans - to watch the most promotions and rate the most matches. However, as I've got older I've needed wrestling more as both a form of escapism and as a mirror of the trials and tribulations of everyday life - and that comes through compelling storytelling with relatable characters. The actual "wrestling" is still important, but only part of the picture, and ideally is in service to the story, rather than vice versa.

Without wishing to stumble into a "Is wrestling a sport or is it art?" argument, I wonder if the challenge is that it is too much a TV show rather than a live event you want to see in the moment? I don't think the sheer volume of product helps with this - it makes wrestling feel like an eternal boxset, rather than something you want to catch as it happens. I suppose to add to that, wrestling should be careful trying to shoehorn itself into modern disposable/meme spaces, as it just won't be the right fit. It should be in the shared moment, not in the individual share. I think wrestling works best as an episodic yet communal form that is sport-ajacent. But then I am an aging fan, so I guess I would say that.

I really hope there is some good news as while NWA clearly had its faults it still produced some really fun TV and I think there's still a place for a studio wrestling show in 2021. I really liked Joe Galli too - nice to have a proper broadcaster commentating rather than an insider. As for Aldis and his insincerity, I found that half the fun for a tweener champion. He talks about respect and acts in all the right ways, but does just enough to not be completely likeable. It's an interesting dynamic for everyone else to play off.

Could you argue that wrestling has always skewed towards older fans, and that the mid-80s and late-90s booms were the exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to younger fans? I also wonder if actually there's a greater incentive for companies to cultivate older fans. They often have more disposable income. If they want to go to a show there's a good chance they will buy tickets and merch for their families too, and they are (perhaps) more appealing to advertisers? They are also a steadier income stream than younger fans latching on to a "fad", where you might get a boom, but will then almost certainly see a dip later on.

I think there is something really interesting in this. Wrestling has always been influenced by the outside world and has co-opted popular culture and current affairs. However, I suspect this was a lot easier to do with a regional promoting model. It is easy to create characters borrowed from the wider world and make them appealing/appalling if you have a good idea of the politics of your audience. That becomes really tricky with a national, or international, model of promoting. Someone who resonates with conservatives as a character would probably be a real turn-off to a more liberal audience in another part of the country and vice versa. I'm sure it could be done, but it wouldn't be the easiest thing to do without turning into tweener-hell.

Any tag team that doesn't wear matching outfits and doesn't have a name for the team. It's just lazy.

A great shame, but thanks for all the shows and all the hours you've all put into it. I don't think there are many podcasts that get the chemistry just right between hosts, with just the right balance of knowledge, disagreement and genuine warmth coming through.

Is there any data on the political leanings of WWE fans/subscribers? I suspect Vocal Internet Wrestling Fan is generally more left-leaning than Average Joe WWE Fan, but I could be wrong. But any data on that could inform how likely WWE would be affected by its links with Trump, and how bothered Vince would be about it. However, it feels really hard to make a call on this. The Trump presidency doesn't really have a historical precedent for us to understand how this will pan out, and WWE has survived plenty of PR disasters.

The Impossible/Relampago feud has pretty much single-handedly kept me interested in modern wrestling these past couple of months. There have been great matches and wacky matches and the hate between the two of them has been holding the whole IWRG main event scene together. So much hate and so much passion. It is well worth watching anything with their involvement and this match is right up there with their best efforts. But it feels like they are still building things up and there is much more to come. If they get a mask match down the line it has the potential to be an absolute classic.

I think it helps with the notion that a fight can end at any time, and that you can execute a big move or submission at any time, rather than the traditional working a bodypart/wearing down an opponent narrative. So, there starts to be a little more justification psychology-wise for throwing big spots into a match at an earlier point. However, that loses its impact when it just becomes trading finishers and kick-outs, rather than having matches ending more quickly. I could live without escalation if more short matches were thrown in the mix, as there would be genuine uncertainty and drama around every fall and submission as it would be plausible for a match to not go 30+ minutes, but only go five, for instance.

The best forums police themselves wherever possible. It is really hard to do that when regular posters (and friends of the people who run the place, sometimes) are causing problems. Out-and-out trolls are easy to deal with by comparison. I don't post often because I've grown tired of a lot of the tricks and behaviours I see - seeing discussion as something to "win", reframing discussions to suit your own agenda, projecting emotions on others, talking down to others, ignoring posts that politely prove you wrong, lack of empathy, co-opting of right-wing language, grandstanding, threats to leave etc etc etc etc. All of that nonsense was kind of understandable 15 years ago when these sorts of boards were full of guys in their teens and twenties. It is pretty demoralising seeing the same kind of stuff now we're that much older. It makes all the good stuff less worthwhile, as there is always the risk of someone derailing an interesting and fun discussion. While I wouldn't pin everything on one person, it wouldn't hurt to have a quiet word with one or two people once in a while.

It had its moments but I thought it was a bit of a mess. I'm not sure the referee helped, but it seemed like they couldn't decide whether to do heel-doing-stuff-behind-ref's-back spots or to not bother hiding it. Plus it is hard to make this kind of match truly dramatic as the result never really seemed in any doubt.