SomethingSavage

Greatly enjoying this series already, guys. Hearing Marty talk about "the kids nowadays" labeling matches as bangers had me cracking up. And I dig El-P's whistles and whirly sound effects when describing flips & bumps. Good stuff. Loved Marty pointing out the way fans used to chant for their favorite wrestlers to win matches. Fast forward a handful of years, and that had almost entirely eroded away into what we're left with today - everything refers to match quality. It's a sad, steep decline in terms of crowd involvement & emotional investment. I'm not sure if that began with the fans, or if it's a product of the promotions educating their fans that wins & losses rarely ever matter anymore. After all, what's the point in cheering for your favorite to win in a world where there are no consequences or truly meaningful results? What's the point in becoming engrossed in an outcome when they're just going to do the exact same song & dance again next week? Might as well react to the action & the movement in the moment, because that's all that matters. The winners and losers are irrelevant. Interesting notes about Gail Kim throughout the discussions, too. She's extremely underrated in the big scheme of things, I think. I'm glad you guys got to touch on her time in the Sensational Sherri role, as I think it's even more overlooked. But yeah. She worked hard in that spot to enhance A LOT of those Planet Jarrett, big main event dog & pony show style matches. Austin Aries is a personal favorite of mine, and I think that his real life asshole attitude actually enhances his aura & plays into his polarizing reputation. It's like Shawn circa 97 in some regards. So yeah. I was stoked to hear two of my faves get mentioned here. The Morrison main event from BFG got a solid review from me in real time here on the board, and the Slammiversary opener against Samoa Joe was just bonkers. It packed the star-making performance punch of a big main event, but it was condensed into a SOOPAH FUN opening sprint. Loved it. Still do. I'm curious to see if either of the Aries/Roode or Aries/Bully matches get mentioned in future episodes. The lists are dwindling down, so maybe not. Because I've got a feeling there are a few that we still haven't heard discussed, specifically one involving AJ and (fingers crossed) another gem involving Angle in a cage. Similar to the situation with Aries, Callihan is a guilty pleasure for me. The guy takes my favorite aspects of the Bully Ray character and just amplifies everything to eleven. You guys are absolutely right that Sami seems to LOVE the hate he gets. The dude plays the role of disgusting, despicable heel to the hilt. Matches aside, Callihan's FEUDS with Penta, Cage, Tessa, and Swann all deserve to be talked about among the very best rivalries in the history of the company - hell, in the last 20 years of professional wrestling. I'm a story and character fan first & foremost. So, even when the matches aren't necessarily the sharpest, I'll go along for the journey if the rivalry is worth following. And Callihan always brings that to his programs. Masks, fireballs, blood, partnerships, betrayals, you name it. The guy pours truckloads of effort & energy into his work. And lastly, there's the AJ/Daniels talk. My god. I love the parallels of their various feuds so much. They actually had two storybook final chapters (in 2009 and again in 2012), both of which felt like truly significant peaks for their characters' history together. Both matches were fitting finales, and both felt like something a lot of other feuds would strive for but never achieve. Hunter and Shawn, with all their Shakespearean stage play, particularly come to mind. They had the more popularized story, for sure. But none of their matches ever truly resonated the way AJ and Daniels did for me. Can't wait to hear the next couple of installments, guys. Here's hoping that one cage match I'm thinking of gets a metric ton of love.

I haven't regularly listened to any wrestling podcasts since Hurricane Laura hit my neck of the woods. I made the leap over to true crime & comics stuff around then, but this is the perfect excuse for me to get back on board. God forgive me, but I just love me some good ole TNA/iMPACT hidden gemstones! Looking forward to listening soon, guys. Marty's enthusiasm on Tag Teams was always so damn infectious, and I'm anxious to hear El-P in living airwaves for a change.

Settle in, man. I'm gonna throw a few things at'cha right quick. The Comics Canon - Already mentioned by Kelly, but it's a solid listen. Each episode breaks down a different story arc or trade paperback type event, so they cover a ton of ground. For the sheer sake of VARIETY, I don't know that you'll find anymore than what they offer. You can just scroll through their episode list and cherry pick stories, so that's super helpful and efficient. One of the hosts have a verbal tick, in which he always pauses and says, "You know" ALL THE TIME. It may take awhile for you to pick up on it, but it can get distracting at times. It doesn't detract from their vast knowledge or anything. Both guys are great. It's just one of those things that can grate at times when he's trying to get to a point, but otherwise? Yeah. Solid recommend. Screw it, We're Just Gonna Talk About Comics - Now this is a personal favorite, for sure. The hosts are two brothers, who grew up essentially reading the same stories and comics. One has remained a lifelong fan, while the other pretty much took my path and dropped out for awhile. He's just now catching up & filling in some gaps. Together, they bring a ton of enthusiasm and insight into the subjects they select to talk about. This podcast actually started out titled as, "Screw it, We're Just Gonna Talk About Spider-Man", which is what I tuned in to hear. And it was designed to be a straightforward, limited project that covered the Steve Ditko issues only. I was all over that. But then it morphed into a season-by-season podcast, with each "season" covering a different batch of books. After Ditko Spidey, they switched over to Kirby's Fantastic Four. Following that, there's some early Hulk. There's Justice League International. There's Frank Miller's Batman. Right now, they're currently covering Gaiman's Sandman. I call this a personal favorite, because the conversation and the chemistry between the two brothers is infectious and SUPER easy to listen to. There's plenty of humor and some out-of-the-box recommendations to be found, too. The Wizard And The Bruiser - Another personal favorite of mine at the moment. To be clear, this one isn't strictly a comics podcast, so you'll have to scroll through and select the episodes that cover comic-related stuff. But there are plenty. The hosts here do a ton of research and bring such a high level of energy to everything they discuss. It's hard not to just jump on board and learn new things about some of your favorite stuff. They cover Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Stan Lee in depth. They talk about comics, anime, video games, film franchises, and whatever else they've been fans of during their lives. Oh. And I know I said I'm done with wrestling podcasts for a good, long while (and I am) ... But I highly recommend their wrestling episodes. They're not PWO knowledgeable, but they're not Lapsed Fans ignorant about it. Their episode covering The Rock is short and concise, but it honestly had little tidbits that I'd never heard before. It's certainly better and more insightful than any podcast from JR or Bruce I've heard covering Rocky. Talk From Superheroes - Okay. This one isn't technically comics, but it's comic book adjacent. This is just a guy and a girl (sometimes with co-hosts) reviewing superhero media. Movies, seasons of TV, etc. get covered. They're also comedians and that comes through in the tone of the show. Super fun stuff though, and of course your mileage will vary depending on whether you enjoy superhero shows and flicks. Dynamic Duel - I've only just listened to a few episodes of this one, unlike the rest, so I can't speak too much on it. I'm only really including it here because I love the gimmick. It's basically two identical twin brothers. One is a Marvel guy. The other is a DC guy. They are open-minded, but they pick sides and vehemently voice their opinions on stories, characters, and multimedia from the two companies. A lot of their episodes feature simulated "battles" between a Marvel character and a DC character. This is where it may lose some people (and did lose me initially), but the two "battles" I've listened to weren't as corny or cheesy as I feared they would be. It's not the main appeal of their podcast for me, although it's kind of put front & center like they want it to be. So yeah. Between those and the ones Kelly also mentioned, that should get you started. Hopefully you find something to enjoy.

Right there with ya on reigniting the comics fandom, brutha. Mine began a year or two ago with all those MASSIVE posts I made here on this board. I've been excited to get back into them and catch up on everything I've missed since my college years. But also - primarily - I've been super excited and engaged in helping my nephew to explore them alongside me. He's big BIG into his comic fandom right now, so I've immersed myself in it while it lasts. He'll outgrow it just as I did, but I want to make the most of it while he's fully on board. There's just nothing engaging or inspiring about modern pro wrestling to me. Zero interest for me. And very little for even my twelve year-old nephew. He's never once watched a wrestling match to rate it, review it, or analyze and critique it. But he can sure turn to you and tell you why it doesn't interest him anymore. Nothing matters. Results don't matter. The same guys wrestling this week will just do it again next week. No stories progress. Nothing moves forward. It's just a big hamster wheel of endlessness. It's a time suck, and not even an entertaining one anymore. But anyway. It sucks to hear that you've retired from podcasting. I actually really dug your shows with Johnny Sorrow back in the day. I have discovered PLENTY of comics and film podcasts this year though, and those have quickly supplanted all the wrestling stuff I used to listen to instead.

I actually preferred the modern stuff early on. I haven't listened to Arn's shows in awhile, but it was refreshing to hear his thoughts on structuring Cena's matches and stuff. Loved hearing his analysis of why he disliked the Owens series and how the booking was mishandled there. Same for the Nexus angle, even if that's more obvious opinion. Also enjoyed hearing his feedback on guys like Ryback, Cesaro, and Barrett. There's also the story about Dolph catching some heat with the office for ignoring a supposed edict to not use the superkick after Shawn's retirement match against Taker. I absolutely buy that they'd want guys to stop using the move for awhile, and I could totally see Ziggler just rolling his eyes and doing his thing anyway. Arn put it bluntly. Dolph has made great money for a long time, and he's saved a great majority of it. He isn't job scared, but he's going to continue earning and working for the top company where he can do just that.

Regarding podcasts, I just stopped listening around the end of August. We've been hit by back to back hurricanes (Laura and Delta) with about six weeks of separation. Between power outages and my job, I just haven't had any care to hear Cornette bitch about AEW or NXT anymore. And really, his show was my favorite before all that real life stuff started to kick my ass. But yeah. You're right. His shows started to feel more & more like a chore, so dropping the habit was fairly easy for me when it came right down to it. Conrad's shows had already fallen off for me. They're enjoyable enough when they're good, but that's so rare nowadays. The formula was already tired and worn out before 2020. But it's become really obvious with the more shows and co-hosts he's brought out. I won't lie though. I'd still probably scope out any new feed Conrad puts out there (for free only, of course), but I doubt it would take long before it felt like every other one of his shows. Whether it's Nash or Waltman or Foley or Jarrett or whatever, it wouldn't be long before he's reviewing Unforgiven 1999 for the sixth time or whateverthefuck. Regarding current stuff, yeah. Modern pro wrestling is basically Dragon Ball Z. It adheres to the same formula as that anime, and it carries both the pros & the cons along with it. I mean, of course that means you can keep and maintain a very dedicated, passionate fan base. But it's so niche and alienating to a lot of others. It's also repetitive. Incredibly, incredibly repetitive. Like Dragon Ball Z, there's next to no narrative. There's rail thin story advancement and minimalistic plot developments. Instead, it's a lot of yelling and fighting for the sake of fighting. It's endless vamping and posing. It's filler piled on top of more filler. It's all motion, no emotion. It's everything under the sun being done for the purpose of killing time and, yup, producing content. Loads and loads of content. And hey. DBZ was capable of creating some exciting moments. But there were also endless episodes of posing, vamping, dragging their feet, and just general nothingness in between. That's modern pro wrestling. You can step away for months and miss nothing of note. It just feels like the days of building stars and promoting bold personalities is gone away. And with those elements, the fun in following along has gone away for me. There's no reason to care. There's no connection to be made to any of it. I mean, I'm sure someone could point out how there's one promotion somewhere doing it right. Or presenting a decent feud. Or whatever. But I couldn't care any less. It's just the general state of the business that I can't be bothered to care about anymore. Everything feels like it's happening on a treadmill. Everyone is just running in place. Everything is disposable. Just to bring things back to podcasts, I really think my fandom peaked at the perfect time - back in that 2014/15 period when PWO and PTBN were killing it with a flood of fun shows. There was just SO MUCH audio out there, and it was all so fascinating and varied. I really got into selectively seeking out things, analyzing them to death, and discussing it. But I also got burned out on that method of viewing what, at the end of the day, is just an escape. It's entertainment. And what they're producing now doesn't entertain me in the slightest way - not on any level. There's just far better stuff out there to scratch that itch. And it isn't that I'd ever label or categorize wrestling as juvenile or simplistic. It's just that today's wrestling is such a far, far cry from the stuff I loved for 30 years. This thing it's transitioned into just doesn't do anything for me. The podcasts offer a fun trip down memory lane, more than anything. And God knows I love hearing Cornette tell old stories about Ernie Ladd or a coked up Butch Reed. But that's about it. And now he's gone the route of talking more about the awful modern stuff than any of that. So even the podcasts are starting to all sound alike.

You could honestly tell me wrestling ended with Covid and I would believe you. The fact that it's still a thing that's happening is crazy to me. I enjoy Cornette's rants from time to time, but I'm not keeping up with any wrestling podcasts regularly. I'm usually listening to Parcast shows or something revolving around comic books, films, etc. instead. I'm a real "deep dive" personality type about the subjects I love, but modern pro wrestling just isn't one of those things anymore. Oh. I lie. I did watch a week or two of NXT and Smackdown with my nephew when we were riding out Hurricane Laura. Those shows were awful, but I dug the experience of watching something with him that wasn't Marvel or DC for a change, I guess. I think the last episode of AEW I saw was back around February. They were still live, and the episode was pretty awesome. Cody versus Bodyguard Warbucks guy in a steel cage and a decent Omega/Page versus Bucks match. It wasn't good enough to get me to follow their show every week, but I could see why some people liked it at the time. I tried watching some AEW again recently with a friend, and gross. It's everything Cornette claims it is. Also, it's much worse. So yeah. Nobody asked for an update on me or anything, but there it is. PODCASTS, y'all!

Waltman has always been great on podcasts. He's better in a guest role or with someone who can carry a back & forth conversation than he is in a Q&A setting, but he's just such a fun storyteller in his own right. No, he's not Foley or Nash. But he isn't too far off. So I wouldn't peg him as a primary candidate for this, but I actually think he could surprise a lot of skeptics with just how much he'd have to say. If you're curious about recommendations, Waltman's appearances on Austin's old podcast were phenomenal. He has an excellent memory and recall over his early career and the small details. You never get the sense that he's bullshitting or embellishing either. I mean, it's wrestling. I'm sure he does at times. But the guy never backs down on admitting his own flaws or pointing out his own bad decisions. At all. For even better recommendations though, I'd direct you guys over to the series Sean did on his own 1-2-360 (awful name) show. There's a stretch somewhere in there where he was convinced by listeners to cover his own career using the Conrad Thompson formula. And those are tremendous. Particular highlights are the periods covering the X-Pac/Kane team and feud, believe it or not. That stuff doesn't age well in my mind, but Sean's description and sheer love for the angle will have you second guessing and actively seeking it out just to make sure. There's a great story somewhere in there about his first chance to main event a house show during the big boom period of the Attitude Era. I want to say it was a cage match with Kane, and Sean describes in detail the lengths he went through to make sure he made the date, when it looked like the universe had conspired to make everything go wrong and work against him. It's a pretty great story, especially hearing it in his own words. You can just hear and tell how much that main event spot meant to him. He also doesn't pull any punches or shy away from discussing Russo's involvement with a lot of things from around that time. (Like pushing for Val Venis to step up as the new new leader of DX... ... ...G'yeah.) So anyway, I wouldn't be at all opposed to Waltman getting a show with Conrad. I would be more wary of Conrad sticking to nothing but endless Attitude discussions more than anything. Because Sean can actually talk about ANYTHING. He follows modern stuff. He has kept up with New Japan. He knows nineties All Japan. He doesn't mind talking about TNA. Or his early days and training. You name it. It'd be Conrad's own obsession with everything 97 and 98 that would torpedo the thing, if you ask me. But that's the risk you also run with Nash and Foley in the same seat, too.

It's awful, man. I know you're the optimism and the perpetual enthusiasm around here, and God bless ya for it. But come on. What they're doing is downright embarrassing. I wouldn't dare even watch a YouTube clip of WWE with anyone around. A decade ago, podcasters would joke about how they used to be embarrassed as kids to admit to their friends that they were wrestling fans. It's very much back to that nowadays. And that's not me just speculating. My nephew has been a fan for as far back as I can remember. But he's twelve now and won't watch any of it. It's not cool. It's not interesting. And it's not even like he's at an age where he has completely gone girl crazy and gotten rid of kid stuff. He's still into superheroes and Marvel and all that. But wrestling is awful. It's embarrassing even to children.

Pro wrestling *is* a total joke to outsiders. This can't possibly do any further harm. You're right though. Cole beating McAfee is the obvious end result, and that's laughable because Cole is less physically imposing than Britt Baker at this point. Somebody give this guy a sandwich and a shake. Or a weight. Or a shake weight. He looks like shit.

I meannn, I'll never be bored enough to sit down and watch how bad they're fucking that up. So it's looking pretty good on my end, brutha. On the other hand, you're making such piss poor choices in your life that it's led you to keep up with weekly WWE wrestling in 2020, as if that's a thing. I'm embarrassed for you. Your significant other is ashamed. They may not say it, but believe me. We're all sending thoughts & prayers that you kick this shameful habit. And just so we're clear, I suggested Braun was over enough to get the belt against Brock in the fall of 2017. At the time, Braun stood a chance of eclipsing someone like Brock as a monster and a legitimate singles draw. Seth has never been that. From a heirarchy standpoint AND a character perspective, pushing Seth as the breakout star of the Shield would've been like pushing X-Pac as the Game in the 1999 DX split. Except, ya know, Waltman could work and understood basic match structure and psychology. He knew the difference in performing as a heel versus a Babyface - something Seth still hasn't fully grasped to this day. A lot of you saw Seth getting over as a part of a greater whole - first in the Shield and then in the tag team with Dean - and didn't understood the context. So you thought, yes. Book him to get all the beltz! But no. Just... God, no. Go back and watch his grudge match with Triple H. For fucks sake, his idea of working a hate-filled, blood feud finale looks exactly like his throwaway opening match on Raw against, I don't know, Ryback or Dolph. You'd never know there was a backstory there. His idea of selling a career-threatening injury is hissing like a snake and occasionally stopping to slap his kneecap like an idiot who's never actually been hurt before. The guy's just the shits. You can say what you want about Braun and his limitations, but at least his best features are assets that COULD have made them some money when I said he should've been the champ. Seth is just another guy. He's as unremarkable as anyone you could point out in a crowd anywhere. I don't give a fuck how many tires he can flip or how many burpees he can execute in five minutes. Nobody does. It's a sad, dismal indicator for anyone to ever fantasy book the guy as anything other than a decent tag guy.

Genuinely glad to see some of y'all coming around to good sense. I was losing faith in this place after y'all spent a year and a half fantasy booking Seth to beat Brock for the belt before they were stupid enough to actually do it.

I don't watch this garbage anymore but God bless you guys for sticking with it. I thought I was a die-hard fan for trying to keep up with it for 30 years, but you guys. Y'all are the true believers. A friend showed me a clip of the Fight Club soft reboot thing they're doing. Christ. Just sell this company or something already. It's scraps at best. This junk makes 1995 look like the good old days. I can't even imagine what motivates y'all to keep up with it. Honestly. Nothing leads to anything. Nothing develops. There are no stories. No narratives. I don't care what you come up with in your own mind to try to connect dots that aren't even there. It's all irrelevant. Nothing they do matters. Nobody on their shows matter. No one knows these people or what they're doing. Pro wrestling is DONE for now. Crowds ARE essential. This cinematic experiment bullshit is a massive misfire. I love pro wrestling like nobody's business, but THIS is not that anymore. I realize I probably sound butthurt or bitter, but far from it. I'm genuinely in awe that people would still devote time and effort to this stuff. I don't know how or WHY anyone on earth would actively want to make THIS a part of their free time, especially when there are so many better alternatives out there.

Because "he" was discussing the podcast. Hence the post in a thread about said podcast, ya simple fuck. You somehow strike me as the last person on God's green earth qualified to discuss the definition of masculinity - warped or otherwise. Please refrain from doing it again. You're only embarrassing yourself. Feel free to find your way back to the Cancellation thread now, little bird.

Dude. That shit has no place here.

Yeah, I'm not buying that. There's some early 00s stuff with LowKi, Danielson, Joe, and even AJ that looks plenty stiff and snug without gaping holes in the work. It's still a performance, but it's more an athletic struggle and less a dance recital than a lot of what I see today. I'm not saying there isn't SOME of that happening today. But I think the majority is an abundance of rehearsed stuff. That's perception, and I'm not alone in that. Feel free to dismiss my talking point as just some generic opinion I'm parroting from elsewhere, but I'd say you're living in a bubble. Because tons of folks feel the same way without perusing message boards or having their faces in wrestling Twitter to tell them what they should think.

Ban me, I guess? As much as I still enjoy dropping in sometimes, I'm rarely around anyway. Doesn't make Cornette's line any less funny. You telling me Dana *doesn't* look like the female Gremlin from the New York sequel? Because you'd be wrong, and I'll knock all this shit over.

THIS. For instance, since Austin's name came up and the match with Bret came to mind instantly, some of my favorite matches growing up were Bret Hart matches. And over time, Bret has discussed laying out matches and sequences for three hours with some of his opponents. Watching the matches, they play out like a well-told story. So I can absolutely see that. But they don't look or function like rehearsed performances. There is a struggle and a resistance there. Today, more often than not, there's just layers of cooperation piled on top of those pre-planned moments. And it all just comes across as a recital of clearly staged dance steps.

I know it's harsh, and I don't expect the thin-skinned social justice soyboys to respond glowingly to it - but Jim's line about Dana Brooke's face looking like it was remodeled from scratch after somebody set fire to it and tried to put it out with an axe was both accurate and laugh-out-loud hilarious. On a more serious note, the last couple of Experience episodes have been pretty solid. I normally only listen to the Drive Thru, but I really dug his reviews of the first Clash and the NXT Bash/Fyter Fest shows. Corny saying Aubrey Edwards is the best female performer on the AEW roster doesn't even sound like a stretch to me. Part of that may be the awful, mismanaged booking. But yeah. Their women's division feels DOA. Most of all, I loved Jim's fantasy booking for a Big Bubba babyface turn we never got. He rattled off a series of matches, a tag team pairing with Dusty involving a run against the Midnights, and the whole nine yards. It's proof that - regardless of how out of touch people claim he is - Jim can still book basic, sensible, logical pro wrestling when he's engaged and a fan of the product or performers involved. Furthermore, I think he makes an excellent point about modern wrestling always attempting to reap rewards and returns off characters and angles without ever putting in adequate equity first. I realize that's hardly an original thought or opinion, but it's so true and such a pitfall with almost everything about modern pro wrestling.

Appreciate the recommendations, brutha. I jumped right into The Comics Canon today. The sheer variety in topics, time periods, and story arcs covered in their lineup looked refreshing to the year-by-year analysis I'm getting from My Marvelous Year. I know you're a fan of the classic stuff. But if you ever get around to reading some of Hickman's Fantastic Four, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

I was raised by my wonderful grandparents and have just grown up around A LOT of folks like Corny. I find him immensely entertaining. I don't need to agree with his stance on issues to find his insults amusing. The guy's a gifted storyteller through & through. His charm lies in his conviction. I'll take a fired up Cornette rant over the best promo in the business by 2020 standards. Cornette may be the last guy from the business who promos with any consistency & still sounds like he means what he says. GOAT status.

I've just started following My Marvelous Year from the beginning on Spotify. What other pods are out there, man? I'd absolutely be into giving some more a try.

Yeah. You got me. I fabricated an imaginary argument. Christ, some of y'all are beyond weird. You guys have been here through this whole thread. Both points were made a few pages back. Not everyone lives with their faces in their phones or constantly checking here to comment back and forth. My response is a little late, because I'm just now reading through those posts. And no. I didn't use the quote feature because I'm both on my phone and at work. I said what I said. It's all stupid. Feel free to carry on pretending you don't notice tiddies or talking about the definition of language or whateverthefuck.

Look. I feel like everyone here pretty much agrees that there should be zero tolerance for this kind of conduct in today's world. It's not the same environment as it was in the 80s, and I think that evolution is both progressive and necessary in all fields of sports and entertainment. But, I just gotta say, it's pretty gross to have people assume they just instinctively know which apologies are sincere and which aren't. It's also unnerving to have grown adult men pretend to not notice something as simple and obvious as physical attraction. "I don't notice beauty" or "I don't describe how someone looks." GTFO with that noise. Physical attraction is literally biology. You can act as woke as you want & be as politically correct as your little heart will allow, but you're not going to get any pats on the back or receive any awards for pretending you don't notice an attractive person when you see one. Being considerate and a decent human being doesn't require you to say stupid shit like that. Of course you notice someone with "hot" features. That doesn't make you a fucking rapist or a part of this circus. Jesus.

I remember REALLY digging that Jeff/Angle match (their program from Jeff's 2012 redemption run was good fun from a story standpoint, too) but I also recall something being off-putting towards the finish. The numerous draws and restarts never bothered me. I actually felt like they helped to enhance the story and really put a memorable stamp on the match. It still stands out from the pack, clearly. The big bombs. The finisher spamming. Those SNUG sentons. All of that was solid stuff. But I think maybe there was an ankle lock or something that felt like it went wayyy too long. I might be confusing this with one of the Kurt/Shawn matches though, which I know I had a similar gripe about. But yeah. Great match. Kurt actually has a ton of lost gems in his TNA run that don't get talked up enough. The Jeff matches were always solid, but there are encounters with everyone from Lashley and Drew to Jarrett and Anderson and Roode that still don't get enough love. All worth cherry picking and revisiting, even if you don't find time to see everything else surrounding them.