GOTNW

I listened to like 20-30 minutes of this (maybe more? I don't remember) and then switched to the discussion about the japanese WON HOF candidates. A few comments: 1)Who was the podcast aimed at? I mean I totally understand if you just felt you wanted to talk about how great one of your all time favourites is but did anyone actually make an argument Flair isn't an all time great based on his lack of psychology that you think the podcast could sway? I mean if there's a bunch of folks here that have been around forever and have fully formed opinions on the guy, criticise him for these things yet rank him as a top-20 all time wrestler. 2)The discussion about strategy in Flair's matches was pretty ridiculous, seemed like the pretentious blabbering you get from HHH and Shawn Michaels about "great storytelling" and something Flair obviously put no thought into. Of course you can talk about impressions and explanations of his work. Being able to explain why and how something worked in the context of time is great but just because something is logical doesn't necessarily mean it's going to translate to great art. 3)As expected you brought up the matwork=psychology point which seems like a really lazy undermining of Bockwinkel's fans but the idea someone isn't a worker with good psychology because they don't use x amount of matwork is mind boggling in the first place. 4)Praising Flair's "cardiovascular conditioning" or however it was phrased as unmatched in wrestling history is also far-fetched. You compared Flair to the All Japan guys and said they didn't work at the same pace. That may be true, but that's ignoring 1)them taking much bigger and more visually impressive bumps 2)moving at a higher speed than Flair and using spots that require more strenght 3)All Japan matches weren't workrate sprints. There are also whole genres based on this (joshi, lucharesu) so I can't but into the idea Flair was the best workrate wrestler ever.

NOAH never pushed Akiyama as the ace. He was their #1 heel. He took Kawada's place.

JAPW 6/7/2002: American Dragon vs. Low Ki This was a submission match that would've stylistically fit right into Battlarts, hence its inclusion here. The great thing about early 2000s indies is that they could've done an amazing experimental match like this because there weren't really any indy tropes established at the time. They go out of the ring and use some pro-style offence but about 90% of this is based on grappling and struggling for submission attempts and escapes. They don't shy away from using any holds-they didn't whore out their finishing subs but they really played up to the fact that every hold is escapable in the pro wrestling universe. It made me wonder what they'd use to finish the match. The finishing sub came out of the blue and looked amazing and Danielson's use of the suplexes in the stretch was very Otsuka-esque. Pretty fascinating to watch as you get transitions from lucha submissions into rear naked chokes and such preposterousness. I could see some criticising the (lack of) selling in the closing moments but it didn't bother me as I'm used to that in shoot style and here it was clearly a stylistic choice. ****1/4-****1/2

Matt D in the MSG thread: How do others think this year has been for Cena? I wasn't especially fond of the Owens workrate matches but I liked the Rollins matches, especially the Night Of Champions bout. It had a strong layout and focus on countering finishers and presenting them as threats instead of just spamming them a lot. He also carried Cody Rhodes to an entertaining match and most folks over here seem to be irrationally high on the Rusev matches.

Yuki Ishikawa vs. George Terzis - BATTLE ARTS: GENESIS - June 14th, 2014 First two moves that happened were a bodyslam and an elbow drop so this is either going to be amazing or incredibly frustrating. Ishikawa punches George Terzis (seriously, that's the best pro wrestling name he could come up with?) square in the face and I am ALL IN. I googled George Terzis and there's a video of him wrestling Ken Kennedy on Velocity where Kennedy introduces him as "George". It was really funny, kind of like a Seinfeld skit and probably the best thing Kennedy's career has produced. Nifty matwork ensues and all is right in the world. Ishikawa's Enzui/Gamen-giri is a weird spot, it ranges from looking OK to out of this world stiff, thankfully he really rocked George here. George has good kicks, they won't make you forget about Katsumi Usuda but Ishikawa can produce greatness with them regardless. I'm not even sure how to describe Ishikawa's matwork it's too beautiful for my vocabulary. They have the best New Japan 2K Elbow exchange ever that is appropriately ended with a shoot slap to the face. George hit a pretty brutal knee strike that would've fit in in a high end Futen tag and then followed it up with a Dropkick which was pretty bizarre, it was something you'd expect to see in a 1987 Takada match. George really laid his shots in in the stretch, I may have undersold his kicks. They even busted out a couple of nasty Headbutts. Great submission battle before the finish. My only real complaint would be the annoying crowd noise, it was very UFC-esque and pretty cringeworthy, my favourite part of watching Pancrase was always the crowd silence and if the fighter had "seconds" their instructions would probably be hilarious (hands inside!). Easy ****.

Yuki Ishikawa vs. Sansyu - BATTLE ARTS 4: PUSH - November 15, 2014 As you'd suspect this was a pretty obvious carry job, kind of like Taue-Nagata or Goldust-Orton. Sansyu really makes you appreciate the things you've grown accustomed to from most puro workers, no one really talks about Super Tiger II as a great worker but he has great kicking technique and makes his stuff look absolutely devastating, Ishikawa is a great seller but there's only so much he can do when about 15% of Sansyu's kicks would look good if he wasn't doing all in his power to put them over. There's a really great moment where Ishikawa locks in a Crossface Chickenwing and just grabs Sansyu's face, it looked super nasty. We got some nice slaps and punches but nothing out of the ordinary. Finishing stretch was pretty dope despite it looking like Ishikawa was grappling with himself, I have zero doubt he'd have a great match against YOSHIHIKO. I'd have it around ***1/4-1/2, it's well worth watching if you rate Ishikawa highly.

He got it being less shitty than other WWE commentators but he's only been good in Lucha Underground.

I have no idea what's the consensus on the comedy bits in his matches as I've never seen anyone talk about them but I find them amazing. I could watch him react to getting a yellow card all day long. Another thing I haven't seen talked about is how great at bumping he is, particularly at eating Lariats. He's a top 15-20 guy for me currently.

The La Sombra mask vs mask match was outstanding and is my current MOTY so that's another feather in his cap.

Goto is kind of like their Randy Orton, they've invested so much in him that they have to keep giving him stuff to justify their investment but they've also realised he's not good enough to truly headline so they'll start-stop push him as they see fit.

As you wish good sir: Watched these two recently, thought they were very good brawls but nothing transcedental, just made me wish Funk was wrestling someone I liked more since he really carried the matches with his selling and acting. They were fun brawls but also largely punch/chop matches and definitely not all time classics in the genre. I'd have them around **** and give most credit to Funk. Do we have any Bockwinkel vs Funk other than their July 83 All Japan match? That one was really good. Not sure I'd rank it higher than the Flair/Funk matches but they were a good showcase for both guys' matwork, which is an area in which Flair sucks. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28582-ric-flair/?p=5682309 Not sure if I've seen this and if I have I certainly haven't reviewed it. I'll check and be back with a review. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28582-ric-flair/?p=5682785 I tried to find the match where Garvin won the title on the interwebs but came up short, the Starrcade match and the studio match I've already reviewed: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28582-ric-flair/?p=5682309 http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28582-ric-flair/?p=5682785 It's cool that they do a lot of chops but I don't think these are intrinsically better than an even remotely important Yuji Okabayashi match and he's a guy I might consider for a #98 spot. I hate every Jumbo/Flair match that ever took place and watching them is the least fun I've had watching wrestling. This is probably the hour long match where they circle jerk a bunch with matwork, then suddenly start doing moves. Wasn't much different than watching an Eddie Edwards match except there was a bigger crowd. Vastly prefered Kabuki vs Flair to this.It may have gone overboard in repetition but at least it was enjoyable for what it was (a nonsensical brawl). I don't think Jumbo and Flair had the matwork and the layout to do an epic right the way they wanted to do it. I do have a high appreciation for the Bockwinkel/Jumbo matches. I watched the Wargames matches before I became as analytical of pro-wres as I am now, I didn't think they were close to being ***** when I did but I guess this one's due a rewatch. I hope this is the one where Sid Powerbombs someone on the roof of the cage and then headdrops him. Another wargames match that warrants a rewatch. I really loved the Flair/Steamboat matches when I first saw them but I can't convince myself to spend 2 hours rewatching them when there's a plethora of great matches I haven't seen out there. I also watched a match they had in All Japan in 1983(?) recently and thought it was barely above average so that didn't help.

Well that's just how they operate. They give the IC title to someone before the Climax to free Nakamura and showcase him as a contender for a G1 win while giving someone else some shine in the process and then go back to status quo after the G1. I'm hoping they'll change their ways once they get Okada's big win over Tanahashi out of the way.

Why are you presuming everyone considers Dylan's/Flair's work as great as you do?

They didn't "decide it was a failure", it was their plan for Nakamura to get the title back all along.

Bockwinkel puts on a Side Headlock. Opponent tries to counter it with a top wristlock. Bockwinkel pulls him by the hair and puts him back in the Side Headlock. That's way cooler than getting thrown off the top rope.

At this point I'm not sure if Gedo won't give a shit until the attendance numbers start going down or if they're already going down and this is them reacting to it.

Probably because they are both overrated

Had a legitimately great match against Kane.

I figured he's the kind of guy that might end up as #91 on someone's list if they're super high on modern puro and he has definitely achieved and been acclaimed enough to at least merit discussion. He has good offence and a lot of good matches but is terribly inconsistent and needs a better worker (e.g. Akiyama, Takayama) to reel him in to produce something great. Him vs Sekimoto is probably the dullest match I've ever seen but he'll also go and have matches vs Go Shiozaki that are way better than they should be. Maybe Akiyama's had a hands-on approach to All Japan's ringwork since taking over.

Mutoh relied way more on charisma, cool mannerisms and the fact he was already over than he did on athleticism for the majority of his career.

I love the Hansen match but I don't think it's the all time classic I've seem it pimped as. I think he's been solid to good in everything I've watched from him but if he doesn't have more stuff on that level I don't see a chance for him.

80s pop is the best for MMA/wrestling theme songs. See: LA Park, Onita, Cro Cop etc. WWE's current theme songs are pretty shitty but also fitting since their goal is to make everyone seem as generic as possible and make the brand the draw.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18658l_choshuvshash8-10-91_sport

If you're primarily basing your criteria on the amount of great work someone has had then Murakami probably isn't your guy because there's simply not that much work there. But if you're more interested in the quality of someone's performances and enjoy the style then I think Murakami is someone who should be considered. I put a lot of stock in how a wrestlers carries themselves and that's where Murakami really excels. He is a very charismatic performer and always gets me excited over his matches, whether he's in an out of this world great brawl vs Ishikawa, a random tag match, a squash match in TOKYO Gurentai or an intergender match in Ice Ribbon. He brings a vile intensity to everything he does and makes standing on someone in the corner or simply staring special. He's got great offence, he can sell, he can bump, he makes transitions in his matches meaningful and regularly wins matches with a (very well executed might I add) face punch. He's everything I'd want from a pro wrestler and I will probably rate him.

This was an ok but completely bland workrate match. Fascinating how a match built on emotion managed to be completely devoid of it. It was mostly based on execution, which was crisp and very good for the most part but didn't have anything to hook me.