GOTNW

I really liked Okada-AJ. They busted out new stuff that looked amazing and opted for the best possible finish. They could've gotten all their shit in (pretty sure there were no Okada Tombstones or Bloody Sundays) but they didn't which made it a lot more satisfying for me. Shibata-Sakuraba was better though.

All subjective words. This is probably the worst point anyone has ever made in a discussion about pro wrestling. Of course it's subjective. We argue based on our interpretations and enjoyment. Of course it's MY fucking opinion. What do you want me to do, add IMO to the end of every post I make? If you don't agree with me and have valid arguments against me, fire away. Owens/Balor is a your turn/my turn match, just like the Cena/Owens matches were. I don't think that makes them inherently bad, I just don't think in this particular instance it was well worked within that style. I've loved many spotfests that shared some choices in artistic expression with Balor/Owens. If you're bothered by the wording and find it patronizing I apologize but I stand by it and like how it sounds-I'm not changing it.

Most pro wrestling matches do truly feature wrestlers exchanging control segments over the course of the match. Ideally you'd want transitions from one control segment to another to matter and be performed in an engaging way and a compelling match structure that wouldn't feel stale. This isn't something Devitt was ever good at and a new name and theme music haven't changed that.

This is one criticism I've yet to understand. The alternative to this "turn" theory is a squash. If one doesn't like the offense, the selling, the approach in a given match explain why it didn't work. The fact that both participants had ball control doesn't get there. Well said. These sort of "sounds good on paper" criticisms are getting too wide spread, with zero foundation behind them. I'm sorry for thinking a quasi-Brainbuster and a finisher kick-out don't make it a great match.

Balor-Owens was a horrible your turn-my turn match. Both of them seem to have regressed from their indy days and they weren't exactly elite workers to begin with.

You aren't missing anything. I enjoyed it for what it was. It was special because of Lesnar's presence.

The Kofi squash was an amazing spectacle and another feather in his cap.

You can fault Tanaka for excess in nearfalls, no-selling and a bunch of other modern puro tropes but he was charismatic and authentic enough to make them work. Him grabbing Hayabusa by the mask during a pin after hitting a Powerbomb as an exclamation point after previously failing to put him down with the same move is a great organic moment that you won't see in matches of workers that try to replicate the style.

He was really good as the spunky upper midcarder trying to dethrone the established stars. He spent almost ten years in that role and never truly outgrew it. His formula is fine but he only had transcendental matches against all time greats and outside of that his resume isn't very impressive.

Ibushi has won me over recently but I won't consider him. I don't care for flip wrestling much and he wasn't any good at it. He's improved a lot since transitioning into the heavyweight division but there isn't much depth to his body of work.

This is the most ridiculous comparison I could come up with. Both guys are sloppy but with Baba it's part of the charm while with Punk it just comes off as unprofessional. Baba's finisher was safe but believable enough for Harley Race to sell it like it knocked him out while Punk's would either break his opponent's nose or look bad. Baba had an innate charisma while Punk's appeal could be summarised as "pay attention to me!". I'm interested if anyone would make a case for Punk.

Couldn't find much information about this one except that it was a studio match that had lots of chops. I found about 14 minutes of a studio Flair-Garvin match that had lots of chops. Unfortunately it doesn't show the finish so I can properly assess its value but I really liked what I saw, thought it was almost as good as the Starrcade Cage Match. It had the neat brawling I desired but Garvin also used some swank holds in the beginning. Every bit of information I've found about this match on the almighty internet had led me to believe this is the match in question. If that is indeed correct well.......I didn't care much for it. I found it amusing that they used "exposing Flair's ass" as a highspot. There was a spot where Morton went for an O'Connor Roll but Flair hung on to the ropes after which O'Connor did a backward somersault. It's a spot we've all seen about a million times. Here Morton sold it like it was an actual bump which looked incredibly stupid and a lazy means of transition. A lot of mediocre brawling. I liked Morton's Hiptoss/Dropkick combo. **1/2

One of the things that doesn't get talked about much with AJ is how fantastic he is at executing the most basic maneuvers. Matt has already talked about his Backbreaker but his Dropkick, Knee Drop and Vertical Suplex all look really great as well.

THE greatest wrestler of this generation and a top 5 USA wrestler ever. He isn't a really a personal favourite (though I obviusly like him a lot) nor was I ever as emotionally invested in his stuff as most seemed to be but it's impossible to argue against his catalogue of great matches and versatility.

Tatsuo Nakano http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30845-masakatsu-funaki-vs-tatsuo-nakano-uwf-072789/?hl=%2Btatsuo+%2Bnakano http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/18693-nobuhiko-takada-billy-scott-vs-kazuo-yamazaki-tatsuo-nakano-uwfi-moving-on-082491/?hl=%2Btatsuo+%2Bnakano http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/17381-akira-maeda-vs-tatsuo-nakano-uwf-fighting-area-041590/?hl=%2Btatsuo+%2Bnakano http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/12220-vader-vs-tatsuo-nakano-uwfi-fight-of-champions-050693/?hl=%2Btatsuo+%2Bnakano

I think he'll make my list on quantity alone. I really enjoy his shtick and his sheer presence always makes matches more appealing to me.

One of the first things I stumbled upon while searching for this match was a video of Luger talking about how Flair carried him. This looks to be a 40 minute match that didn't happen in All Japan in 1995 which doesn't look very appealing to me. Terry Funk is on commentary which should make it worthwhile even if the ring work isn't the greatest. This had a STRONG opening- Flair was amazing at projecting Luger as a strong character and prolonging the opening section of the match without making it seem like filler. I'll always get a kick out of the "judo chop" call. They did some nice brawling and a couple of big bumps before transitioning to the workover portion where they lost me. I didn't care for Flair's limbwork and the extended sleeper holds. Luger's no-selling was amusing and fitting for what they were going for. They had the ref catch Luger's arm when he was going for a punch which allowed Flair to kick him and transition back into offence in what was probably the stupidest professional wrestling spot ever. Stars deducted for that. Luger's Powerslams looked good.There was enough brawling and slams to keep me somewhat entertained but nothing especially noteworthy. The Sting-Luger interactions were laughably bad. Bad timing took away any potential drama from the nearfalls and made them look totally unconvincing. The finish with Luger's moral dilemma was interesting but poorly done-there was a shot of Ole observing Luger's Torture Rack when the ref was just getting up where it would've made infinitely more sense for him to just get in the ring and knock the ref down again. They didn't need two guys to threaten an immobile Sting anyway. Poor execution and storytelling on their part. Flair's performance in the match was very good though. *** I assume: is the match in which Garvin won the title? I haven't found that one yet, but I did find the Starrcade cage match that took place on November 26th. I believe this was my first time seeing Garvin and man he looked great. Great brawl with lots of vicious striking and an incerdibly smart finishing stretch that suckered me right into the drama. Garvin looks like a major omission on my part and Flair looked much better in this environment than in drawn out epics. ****

Could your depict your taste a little bit or give us an idea of what types of matches you'd be interested in? I'm younger than you btw.

I'd have already watched them if I wasn't busy replying to everyone who called me out (or studying for today's exam) . I'll get it done by tomorrow.

I love wrestling. I hate when people stick to preconceived notions that use terms that don't articulate anything. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena told a great story because it was a match that was great for its story and wouldn't be nearly as good it it had happened in a different environment with different competitors. What did Flair-Koko have that made it great storytelling?

I couldn't think of anything more worthless to say about a match than "it told a great story". It's the defence I stumbled upon when I criticized shitty matches like Lesnar-Triple H in other places. It bored me. If you think the fact there was a good guy and a bad guy makes it amazing storytelling I'm not going to waste my or your time arguing with you. There are very few matches where I'd say the narrative plays a vital part of why the match is great and absolutely nothing about Flair/Ware indicated it was contextually great like a match with "great storytelling" should be. And even if you could somehow formulate a story for that match it wouldn't mean much to me because I actively struggled to watch the whole video.

It's not very interesting. For example-I recently watched Flair vs Koko Ware. There was absolutely nothing about it I liked. Nothing. It's almost fascinating how a match can go that long without having something for me to praise or criticise. There was nothing to it. Flair did a quasi-matwork sequence that I've seen him do in almost every other match of his, did the Flair flop and probably fell off the top rope. And I don't care much for his formula. It was tehnically sound but incredibly dull and unrewarding.

It's not obsolete because wrestling itself has gotten better but because its original appeal doesn't translate well to 2015. And I'd say the same is true for Attitude Era brawls and RVD matches.

There isn't much context for those matches to begin with. The first one worked for me because no one was quite sure how far they'd let Owens go in his indyriffic ways. The Package Piledriver tease was genius. The rematch was a mindless spotfest, but I liked it for what it was.