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Why did you put him above Hijo del Santo? That seems like the easiest comparison and I don't see how you get Atlantis there. Not being dismissive (although I do disagree), I genuinely would like to hear why. The only point in your post I disagree with actually is about the matches with Blue Panther. I'd have them closer to ****, not up there with the best in history. The last time I watched the 1991 match I was surprised by how shoddy some of the third fall work was.

Atlantis still hasn't shown up. Mark me down for "pleasantly surprised." Even if he pops today he'll still have done better than I expected.

The Satanico match from 1989 was mano a mano. If it was an apuestas match they would have both lost their hair. His feud with La Fiera in 1993 is disappointing in my opinion but I'm not a big fan of tecnico Fiera so that might not be on Chicana. The hair vs hair match is on alexoblivion's Dailymotion page if you haven't seen it.

Is the footage explosion people finding out about certain matches or more matches getting uploaded to Youtube? I always assumed that the list of top Dandy matches is about the same as it was in 2006, with most new additions being buildup matches and stuff like that. Whereas with someone like La Fiera I can't imagine what he was getting praised for back then.

Not nominated. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28835-rayo-de-jalisco-jr/

Excuse me Perro Aguayo is a great wrestler and more great than La Fiera in my opinion what's with the hate. Following is a list of things that Perro Aguayo Sr. did better than La Fiera: ...bleed? Older Perro especially is so cheesy to me. For lucha heavyweights I'd probably rank Aguayo behind Chicana, Dos Caras, Cien Caras, and even Rayo Jr.

1. Unless I missed them, Fiera finished beneath Perro Sr. and Rayo Jr. He deserved better. 2. Even more tragic, the picture chosen to represent him was not the legendary shot of him threatening to assault Kinnikuman.

What exactly were you expecting to happen? The top 100's gonna be like that too, with Lawler, Tanahashi and I'm guessing at least one of Undertaker/Hogan. Either you sort it out beforehand so that the only people voting are those with similar opinions, or you end up with a final list that's all over the place. If the top 100 didn't have Lawler then it would be a pretty shitty top 100. My point was that I don't expect a lot of lists to have three or all four of those guys but all of them finishing in the top hundred wouldn't surprise me. I don't envision a lot of overlap between fans of each of those guys. The top 100 probably isn't going to resemble any one person's list.

What exactly were you expecting to happen? The top 100's gonna be like that too, with Lawler, Tanahashi and I'm guessing at least one of Undertaker/Hogan. Either you sort it out beforehand so that the only people voting are those with similar opinions, or you end up with a final list that's all over the place. I sort of wish I'd nominated a bunch of random, hopeless Mexican guys just for the joy of seeing them pop up randomly, but lucha placements have been so predictable thus far that there wouldn't have been a point, they'd probably just have plopped out at the bottom. Jerry Estrada went a bit low, Octagon a bit high, but even that was just one vote. Maybe Negro Navarro finishing above Solar, just because Solar has better stuff from before he broke off stylistically. Mocho Cota's going to do well for himself but it was clear going in that would happen.

Fairly sure that's a picture of El Brazo.

I don't think that stylistic differences have all that much to do with specific holds used. Headlocks and hammerlocks are fairly common in lucha libre, and I've seen all of the rest used multiple times with the exception of the sleeper.

Americo Rocca, El Texano, Villano V, Gran Cochisse Of those, Rocca would have the best shot of making my list. If you asked me if Americo Rocca was one of the best hundred wrestlers ever and didn't let me think about it I'd say yes. Texano would probably be on if there was more video of him from the Misioneros days through the early 1990s. Other people have a better handle on Villano V than I do, but IV was nominated and I have a hard time separating the two. I couldn't vote for Gran Cochisse with just the matches I've seen but I've always assumed he was just as talented as the other guys except for maybe Texano. When I saw that Konnan Big had been nominated I thought about nominating Micro Konnan, standard Konnan, and Scott Putski, but I figured you wouldn't want a nobody poster clogging up the list of nominees for a crap joke like that. Also I didn't want to review Scott Putski matches.

Satanico's obviously a great wrestler, but my reactions to him are usually of the "Yes, that IS the correct thing to do in that situation" variety. I rarely see in him the brilliance and cleverness that others do or that I do in Negro Casas, who's probably his best comp. He's not a guy who's great just to watch in action either, not a good enough athlete for that. In the end his early '80s matches generally hold up for me, his '90s classics I don't enjoy as much. I don't like the layout of the 1990 hair match with Dandy, I've never gotten the Pirata match, and the Brazos and Chicana matches I appreciate more than love. Like I'm sure if I watched that stuff everything he did would check out, so I'm less comfortable calling him overrated than I am for Blue Panther. Part of it's probably me. In the back of my mind I'm always thinking about how the guy's perpetually looking out for numero uno, which is the sort of thing that'll give rise to cynical views of his performances. I could go on, but instead I'll just say that I really like his match from the week before the Dandy hair vs hair in 1990, and that I thought he had a spot in there that was one of the best individual things I've seen from him.

I've long thought of Emilio as the Arn Anderson of Mexico, except you have to imagine that Arn has cut a deal with the devil and traded away his dignity for a full head of hair. I don't know if Fuerza is the anybody of Mexico. Like one of this thread's earlier posts said, he has a singular approach to wrestling and a singular idea of what wrestling greatness is. There are times when I think he's just as clever as Negro Casas, but unlike Casas he didn't seem interested in wrestling the kind of world class match where fans leave the arena thinking those two guys are the two best out there. Of course, again, Octagon's not the type of wrestler who's ideal for something like that.

Fuerza's got Emilio beat in one on ones. So many of Emilio's matches leave me wishing they were better, with the 1989 title match with Dandy still ranking as the most disappointing match I've ever seen. They're not even bad, they just could be better. Fuerza's dossier might not be any better in terms of net star rating, but he pulled that down against Octagon and Gallo Tapado. It's not so much about carryjobs as it is that there's a just higher benchmark when wrestling Atlantis than when wrestling Octagon. Fuerza I think had a higher capacity for ingenuity than Emilio. Fuerza would do spots, and not just his standard ones, that I couldn't imagine anyone else doing. Emilio's was more of a physical genius, knowing exactly how to best contort his body when taking a move or bump. Emilio was a great, captivating figure in the 1989 program with Dandy but that's really the only time when I see him as being on Fuerza's level as the leader of a team. Emilio's always been one of my guys in a way that Fuerza hasn't, but when I actually think about their records Fuerza's simply impresses me more. If I'm judging then Fuerza gets the duke.

There are basically two minimatches within the one. The first bit is a three way elimination, with the winner getting to escape without putting anything on the line. The two wrestlers who get eliminated have to meet in the second bit, which is a standard 2/3 falls with hair and/or mask at stake. So Santo briefly leaves the match because his ticket to the final portion has already been punched, and Casas leaves for good because he's won the first portion and doesn't have to risk losing his hair.

Yes, for whatever reason Blue Panther not only seems to get a pass for not being well rounded but gets people saying that he actually is. When I see his name in a six-man my thinking is "If I get Panther showing off his holds, great, and if not... ?" In a lot of contexts I don't have a good idea of what he brings to the table above and beyond any other capable rudo. To me he ranks with someone like Jerry Estrada, another wrestler with spectacular skills and big holes in his game. Panther's skills are more impressive and harder to hone, Estrada's are more practical. It about evens out.

I find him extremely boring. There's nothing he does wrong, really (I hate the Atlantida but that's a personal gripe) but he does nothing that ever engages me. Didn't like his mask matches with Ultimo and La Sombra. He's there. I feel like you could plug in tons of other people and they'd be better in his role than he is. That wasn't true of him in his younger days. People keep saying he has no standout attribute but until the minis became regulars he was probably the best flyer in the EMLL (maybe there were better guys on untaped undercards or smaller shows, I don't know). To me that's an elite quality. I don't know how innovative he was, but I can't think of anyone else at the time doing moonsaults to the outside or the twisty cross body block or that tope where he hits his opponent at like a 25 degree angle. On the occasions he'd stoop to performing a straight tope through the ropes he'd execute that beautifully too. There might have been better tecnicos but I can't think of anyone who'd have been as good in the same role. Oro was a phenomenon when he showed up a few years later and I don't think he was as good a flyer as late '80s Atlantis.

Does anyone know where he was in 1989-90?