Woof

Val Puccio's '95 run in ECW, brief as it was, gives me night sweats.

I can think of nothing that Earl Hebner does as a referee that is good. ~ He does a terrible job of attempting to enforce the rules during a match, usually just standing around and letting guys do whatever because it hasn't specifically been scripted for him to do something ~ When he DOES interject himself it's usually way overboard; he has zero middle ground ~ His counts are inconsistent and sloppy ~ He does that weird leg kickout thing to telegraph that he won't be counting the full 3 whenever its supposed to be a false finish ~ His calls for the bell are creepy looking as he just flails his arm in the general area of the timekeeper with his hand just flopping all around at the end of his wrist like it's just dead tissue ~ He is generally uncoordinated in the ring, often tripping over his own feet, and is frequently in the wrong position ~ He takes horrible looking bumps that are straight out of a Three Stooges routine and expose the business ~ He's involved in way too many angles, which may not necessarily be his call, but given his grandstanding in other areas I don't feel the need to let him off the hook for ~ His voice is whiney and unauthoritive ~ As stated above, he tries WAY too hard to make sure he's in the picture for iconic moments, which usually means grabbing the wrist of the winner to raise it up even when the guy is nowhere near in the condition to have it raised; he is so shameless at the end of the WMXX main event that it made me sick at the time, constantly hanging around long after the match just so he could be there in the Guerrero-Benoit moment; he was so obnoxious during the Austin-Rock WM19 post-match that Rock had to keep shoving him away Given his stature for so long as WWF's Senior Official and then as the same in TNA, he is terrible. I can think of no other professional wrestling referee that has ruined matches for me more than him. I mean it's not even close.

There is something so "TNA" about the first HOF referee being one of the worst of all time. And your story makes tons of sense, Johnny, given that Earl has made a career of jamming himself into epic moments so that he'd be in the iconic photo.

My default response to that is that if Konnan did it, it was bad dumb.

As someone who has only dabbled in All Japan in the past but who is looking to do a deeper dive chronologically soon, I found this thread very helpful. I'm just wondering if maybe somebody could enlighten me on a few things that I'm a little fuzzy on before I begin. What was the All Japan booking structure like in terms of events and television? It seems clear to me they had weekly TV, but obviously weren't on the "weeks of TV-PPV-weeks of TV-PPV..." schedule the major US companies used. The concept of the "tours" isn't something I'm fully able to get my head around yet, so some clarity there would help. How exactly did they present their product? In regards to the "Four Pillars", I know that their ascention essentially began when Misawa unmasked in May of 1990, but if I wanted to start my viewing there, what exactly was the status of the four guys at that point? What little I've been able to read makes it seem like they got thrust into the main event almost immediately because of the mass exodus that took place, but truly, how far removed from that scene were they at the time? Because the footage I *have* watched makes it seem like it wasn't so big a jump in regards to fan response. Where they merely the next tier of guys who got pushed upwards, or did they "jump" a tier to get there? If somebody could just give me a quick overview of the company's hierarchy circa May 1990 that would be a huge help. Thanks.

Yeah. but wrestling has never been about what DOES hurt, it's about what LOOKS like it hurts. Abdominal claws just look weak.

A roll of quarters always struck me as impractical. Any foreign object that has a better than 90% chance of shattering on impact and spraying evidence of it's use all over the mat seems rather unefficient.

I kinda of disqualified the One Night Only PPV's myself since they were treated like Coliseum Home Video releases, as opposed to proper PPV's. Bound For Glory was treated like an afterthought last year, but they still hyped it a *little* on the show and it *was* aired live. But yeah, those ONO things are the very definition of useless.

As for the Memphis stuff, I have very little exposure to them. Just now starting to get on my run through the 80's TV over on YouTube, but that'll take awhile. That being said, I can already tell I'm gonna like Lance Russell and Dave Brown, so I can totally see bumping Vince & Jesse and sliding them into my main weekly TV duo slot. I'd move Jesse to PPV with Ross, but man they had shit chemistry in '92 WCW. Pity.

I primarily want them for the video hype packages and the general way they records their shit. With WWE you always get good sound, unlike say 1990's WCW where they had the almighty Turner team behind them and couldn't seem to make it so the ring announcer was heard on the actual broadcast.

Because I like resurrecting old threads... TNA Bound For Glory 2014 gets my vote. The matches took place completely outside of the narrative of the company as it was being presented at the time. It was just a bunch of exhibition matches against guys from Wrestle-1 in Japan. It had ZERO impact on the booking of TNA going forward and exists in a complete and utter vaccuum. Oh, and it carried the name/PPV slot of what was supposed to be their "WrestleMania", which is just so deliciously TNA.

He also seems to have a propensity for bringing guys in hot, but then booking them into a lull at some point later before trying to re-push them up the card. My understanding is that he feels the need to humble guys lest they get it in their head that THEY are the draw and not the "company".

So I was reading an older thread yesterday about what your "perfect" wrestling promotion was, which I guess was meant to be a vote for the actual promotion/time period that you thought was as close to perfection as possible. But it got me to thinking, what if you could Frankenstein that bitch together and build the perfect promotion from top to bottom. I used my commute home last night to come up with a first stab… I'd start with the 1986-87 Jim Crockett Promotions roster. You got Flair & The Horsemen at their peak, Windham at his best, Dusty & Magnum still around (Dusty mostly for the promos), Luger & Sting representing the next wave, a stacked tag division with the MX, RNRX, Road Warriors, Arn & Tully, The Russians, Rude & Fernandez among others, and a boatload of solid hands on the undercard. We'd have a working agreement with 1993 All Japan though, so we could bring in some of that talent for long-term tours and programs. It would be booked by 1985-1986 Bill Watts for his week-to-week storytelling and general prowess, but assisted by 2004 Gabe Sapolsky for a bit of a modern touch. I'd run a weekly 2-hour TV show (a Raw or Nitro) for feature matches & angles taped at the Dallas Sportatorium circa 1983 (for the look, atmosphere & crowd heat), hosted by Vince McMahon & Jesse Ventura (for their chemistry and ability to get over angles and characters). A weekly 1-hour squash match TV show taped at current day Full Sail because I want the audience to be fun given they won't be seeing much in terms of marquee matches, something the mid-90's ECW Arena crowd would shit all over. Gorilla Monsoon & Bobby Heenan can host this since they're more fun when they're just cracking on each other. Monthly supercards will be held at a variety of venues (late 70's MSG, mid-80's Omni, mid-80's Mid-South Coliseum, etc). Late 90's Jim Ross gets the call on play-by-play for his big match/big moment calls, joined by '03 Taz (with a prayer that they develop decent chemistry) because I always thought his analysis of match strategy in that time period was fantastic. The whole thing would be produced by the early 2000's WWF production staff, back when they really hit their groove on video packages, re-embraced the idea of using actual artists' music rather than relying solely on Jim Johnston for everything, but weren't yet to the point where they were jump-cutting all over the place during matches and bogging down the shows with a million Twitter mentions and "Did You Know" self-congratulatory bullshit. Of course they'd have access to modern day HD technology as well, because why the hell not. What do you guys got? EDIT: Almost forgot, Howard Finkel does the ring announcing until the day he dies, then its handled by Howard Finkel's Ghost.

This one isn't blatant, but at the time I thought that Paul E missed the boat by not switching the TV title from Van Dam to Jerry Lynn at Hardcore Heaven '99. Van Dam had done all he could do with the title by that point and everybody knew he was destined to be the next world champ. Lynn was hot as hell coming off their Living Dangerously match. You could have easily transitioned the title here, had Lynn defend the belt against the midcarders that Van Dam had already beat (or wouldn't face because he was a heel), and then moved Van Dam up to take the big belt off of Taz at NR2. Taz essentially said he left for WWF that fall because he felt he had done everything there was to do, but I wonder if that might have been delayed a touch if he had a program with RVD on the horizon. Instead they did a heatless match for the TV title at N2R because even though Taz had already signed with WWF, Paul E wanted to do that match. Total waste of three guys and both titles.

Loved Parv's initial post. It's that kind of wrestling-as-a-story breakdown that has kept me continually coming to this board. You guys are fantastic. Ass-kissing out of the way, I'd like to throw out some love for the German suplex. I always found it was an excellent storytelling device because since the receiver of the move was essentially caught from behind it allows for all sorts of "oh shit!" frantic hand-waving/escape desperation before it's even delivered. It's one of the rare big moves in wrestling where a guy can tell he's about to be hit with it and really can do little to prevent it. Too many other moves (a standard suplex or a DDT, to name two) require the recipient's head/face to be obscured before it's actually delivered, or worse, require the recipient to *pretend* he can't tell what's about to come. Nothing takes me out of a match more than a guy standing around like a dolt waiting for his opponent to come off the ropes onto him because the guy delivering the move has to get his hand signals in first. By the time he launches himself the other guy should be wise to what's coming and just step out of the way. With the German suplex you get that "I GOTCHA!" moment before the move is performed. The fact that it ends in a bump landing on the upper-back/back of the head/eck is like a delicious bonus.

"Jive Soul Bro" Barry Horowitz patting himself on the back In-ring introductions before a title match Daniel Bryan declaring "I have til FIVE, referee!" Tag teams who wear matching gear A Ricky Steamboat armdrag The fans counting down to the next Royal Rumble entrant Road Dogg's "TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS OF THE WOOOOORLD!" Raven's snot rag A Road Warriors squash match The Ventura/Monsoon "Thumb to the eye" / "Would you stop!" exchange Godfather's ho's Tully Blanchard's slingshot suplex Guys unexpectedly flying in from off-camera to break up a pinfall in a tag match Mean Gene conducted interviews Watching a PPV with a large group of people Howard Finkel declaring "AND NEWWWWWWWWWWWW…." And of course… Fuji Vice

I think the problem is that this 100 project is different things to different people. Is Punk one of the hundred greatest in-ring workers of all time? Most likely not. But as a character capable of connecting to an audience and making them care about the story he's trying to tell, I think he's pretty clearly in that discussion. I think his success is particularly amazing when you consider he thrived in an environment that was not structured for a guy like him to succeed.

I would think an obvious one would be: size trumps skill. Yes, history is littered with little guys beating big guys in WWE, but that's usually the culmination of a story, where the little guy has learned enough about the big guy to pull out a victory. In general practice, if you're bigger, you will win.

Meh, he probably didn't "lie". He gets fed a lot of stuff. Still a ridiculous theory.

Based on the new stip that Silas becomes one of Dalton's Boys if he loses, as opposed to Silas getting control of them if he wins, I can honestly say I'm not sure which outcome I'd like to see more. That's some pretty sweet character development and booking when you can get me to want both possibilities.

Well Dave is a moron. That was as organic a moment as you will find. The booking leading into that show was fuckawful. As it was the Benoit-Angle match was added fairly last minute. We had to sit through Brock-Big Show, then that shitshow of a match between Steiner and Triple H, and were waiting around for a Rumble match that was a total foregone conclusion with our only hope being some fun surprises. That Benoit-Angle match SAVED that crowd, so we rewarded them accordingly. I remember talking to people in my section prior to the show starting and ALL the talk was about what a letdown the card was and how we were just praying upon hope that Benoit and Angle would deliver. That crowd was primed to love that match. They didn't need plants. I would also suggest that if the WWE had staged that ovation they would have held on it during the broadcast instead of cutting away to whatever add they went to before hurriedly cutting back to the live crowd. Besides, it's not like they did anything with Benoit in the immediate aftermath, so if they staged it, what was the point.

"Whether the standing ovation after the match was a work or not" I'm curious what you mean by that. I was there live that night, so I have pretty specific thoughts on what was happening in that building. That line intrigues me.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, guys. For the record, I've been watching wrestling a long time and I, like most of you, have different reactions to what I'm watching depending on whether I'm watching it live or for the 10th time or checking out something from the past that I've only ever heard of but never seen. I don't have a problem with how *I* consume wrestling, because I consume it in a variety of ways. I guess my initial question is probably more rhetorical in nature than I intended. In reading certain match reviews I come away from the experience thinking, "That's insightful, but also coldly clinical. How does this person enjoy it anymore if all they do is break it down to such a nuts and bolts level". I get that there's an excitement in examining the how's and why's of something that you're passionate about. I do it as well. I just get the impression that for some of you, it's become so much a part of your viewing experience that it seems almost impossible to truly enjoy it the way it was intended. I'm probably just projecting, but it feels like some people have lost the ability to just be entertained because they're too committed to the examination part of it. Not intended as a criticism, mind you. To each their own. I was just curious. Thanks.

I saw him live in ROH in '03 for the first Raven match. I had ZERO idea who he was walking into the building that night. By the time the match started I wanted to see Raven kick the shit out of him (and I was actually somewhat annoyed ROH was bringing Raven in) and I was PISSED when he won (via submission no less). That may not make him a GOAT, but it speaks volumes as to what he was capable of.

Slaughter has fallen into that bin of 80's guys who I grew up watching as a kid but never really appreciated and have since come around on because I actually know what the hell I'm watching now. Current inhabitants include: Valentine, Patera, Martel, Ron Garvin, Patterson.