SPS

You should definitely be able to still download the episodes. I can on my end, both mobile and on my laptop. The page looks a little different because it embeds "related" episodes on the webpage for each episode, but scroll to the bottom of the episode page (or even just the main page which will have the latest epiosode) and there should be a download link there. Here is the direct link to episode 5: https://tracking.podiant.co/d/spoke/fightingnetworkfriends/episodes/audio/35a89b07bbd0ac.mp3?referrer%5Bdomain%5D=direct&referrer%5Bformat%5D=episode_list Thank you, the direct link you posted works fine for me. Could you possibly include this in the future posts about the new episodes released?

Minoru Suzuki vs Masakatsu Funaki from 10.04.90 was an awesome mat wrestling match that took place under strict grappling only rules as it was Funakis return from a broken arm he suffered kept him sidelined shortly before the U-Cosmos Tokyo Dome card in which Suzuki replaced him. This match was great and Karl Gotch raved about it as what pro wrestling should be for years afterwards.

Yes the Andre book was not good as it was filled with segment play by play of his famous WWF feuds and match reviews which I did not want to rea about. So once you skip those then there is very little to read that you couldn't get from his wiki page. I was very bummed after buying this one hard copy when it came out at my local book store. I have the Regal kindle and it's very readable and the formatting errors are here and there but don't take away a ton from the overall quality of the book. So for such a low price I'd too recommend it to any wrestling fan.

Why can't the newest episodes be downloaded off the webpage at the link given like older ones? I enjoy checking the show out but I'm usually out of the house so I download them and put them on my phone to listen to offline. I don't use itunes or any podcast services either so I have no idea how to download the episodes when they come out and always have to stay one episode behind.

You're better off with back issues of the WON covering the figures featured in here. What about it makes you prefer the Observer? I bought this book when it first came out and really enjoyed it myself. I thought the Observer features generally went into a greater level of detail and context. Leaving content aside, as much as Dave could use some better editing, I thought this book had an unacceptable number of errors -- whether typos or poor grammar -- generally a lesser quality of writing. Those are fair points, I didn't seem to notice but I'm not one to notice outside of major errors so everyone has their preferences. Thanks for clarifying.

Seriously, who, in the era of free podcast everywhere, would want to pay for this kind of shit ? (hell, I wouldn't even download it for free) Bro... While the market is definitely smaller for shoots I think something like this (even though there is nothing valuable to be learned for those who know all about Ken) is more so there for maybe older folks not on the podcast bandwagon and/or don't want to search out audio and enjoy seeing the person being interviewed or those with terrible/no internet who may just rely on physical media at home.

You're better off with back issues of the WON covering the figures featured in here. What about it makes you prefer the Observer? I bought this book when it first came out and really enjoyed it myself.

Excellent, will order this week. Thanks for the update

I disagree, I think how he carries himself once the bell rings will be the biggest factor but the look doesn't remind me of Baron Corbin but more like something out of Resident Evil or a comic book. As for the nickname it is something that seems like some sort of gamer tag or something an MMA fighter would use so even if to some folk it seems hokey to a lot of younger folk that shit is cool so I do think it adds some flavor and something to identify him.

Oh it was a work, Pancrase had a couple and this is most definitely one of them.

Yeah, from memory of the AJPW TV show taped that day, which showed at least the tag title change and Bulldogs vs Rock'n'Roll, the matches were super underwhelming. Pretty much sucked to be honest. A few more matches aired like the Mask-Sharpe bout and possibly Tenryu-Irwin. Sparse crowd too which didn't help. I have access to I think everything that aired on Japan TV which was the misawa match, Irwin Vs tenryu, the funks match, 8 mins of the 30 min bulldogs Vs rock and rolls draw and the tag title match between Gordy Hansen Vs yatsu jumbo. The R'N'R vs Bulldogs is out there in full as I have a copy and while by no means the greatest match of all time, it's still a very good and fun watch

Dave has said multiple times that social media and twitter followers to him don't mean anything so why would he care what he writes on twitter and worry about it when he doesn't feel it has any significant affect on his business? I agree with the points of his writing at times being weak in some areas and I don't ever recall him admitting flat out being wrong but I still believe Dave's content and viewpoint is still interesting and enjoyable to hear even when I don't completely agree with everything he says. As for PWG I also think Dave is sincere in his love of the product and being able to attend and interact with the guys there probably adds to his bias but I don't see any harm with it as how can anyone who knows what everyone here posting knows about Dave be surprised? There is no unbiased journalist in any field an Dave is no different. Also the points made of Dave should be more worried about people pirating his stuff and not about appearing on Being The Elite is silly. Dave is never going to be able to stop people from uploading his stuff online and appearing in stuff with The Bucks and such gives him some name to face appeal for potential new subscribers and separates him from the slew of names on the screen you see in the online wrestling news world. I understand that people are entitled to their opinion and are free to critique but lots of stuff I've read through in these posts come off as bitching for the sake of it. I see people dumping on Dave's match reviewing ability and tweets but offer no alternative examples of ways you see someone else doing it better or more to your liking.

Have been wanting to check it out, how would you desribe the interviews and their quality? After Bloodstained Memoirs disappointed me I'm always reluctant to drop $$ on these things.

i agree overbooking can be a treat when done correctly. You mentioned the Raven dog and pony show which as another Raven fan I enjoyed as it made sense for his character, one of my favorite overbookings was when Steve Corino and Tommy Dreamer used to do a similar build from their basic singles match on the house shows with Corino's army getting involved then Sandman with full music entrance getting involved, then once he got beat down New Jack with full entrance getting involved with a can full of weapons then to top it off Dusty Rhodes coming down to clear house. It was an almost hour long spectacle of spots and characters all entertaining and exciting to see what would happen next. Now ECW used this a little too much in my opinion but when done right they did it well. Also Raven vs Goldberg from Nitro for the US title was another great overbooking, pretty much anytime Raven and his Flock would get bounced by the face it was exciting and not groan inducing to see.

Congrats, I'll have to give this a read once this drops.

If you don't mind me asking where did you work when you came here to Canada as you mentioned? I would love to hear more about you're experiences in booking cards and who you learned from and their philosophy and points about card structure but that might be a better fit for another thread if you'd feel like sharing it at all. I worked for a promotion based in Calgary called the Can-Am Wrestling Federation, run by Steve Wilde and Vinnie Fever. I think they closed down a couple of years after we were there (just a coincidence, honestly!). We criss-crossed Alberta and Saskatchewan and lots of the shows were held on First Nation reservations, although we did do some regular town shows as well. My one and only wrestling TV appearance was during that tour, against Kurrgan in Fort McMurray, Alberta, and I've never been able to find it anywhere. I doubt a tape of it even exists, but I still live in hope that it'll turn up somewhere one day, along with the editions of the Calgary Sun we were in as 'Sunshine Boys'. In terms of the booking of cards and promoting, etc, the person I learnt the most from was a guy called Spinner McKenzie, who probably won't be that familiar to many people on here. Spinner was a long-time wrestler and promoter, who was kind enough to spend time with me, and give me some very good advice as we went along and he worked on my shows in Scotland. I met him working for another promoter in Scotland and we went from there. I wouldn't say there was any specific philosophy to the booking of my shows, except the points I've already mentioned really. The shows were traditionally British in nature and feel, with an American influence in places, although there was a good mixture of styles and match types being showcased. When I first started promoting, I didn't understand about burning the audience out. My philosophy then was to cram as much action into the show as possible, which failed completely as a concept. People were totally burnt out before the end and I had too many matches, some of which were just pointless and served no purpose at all. I was promoting 7 or 8 match cards in the beginning, which is way too much for an average show. In my latter days of promoting, most of the time I ran a 5 match card, which I found to be perfect. That gave each of the matches more time to tell their story. I tended to structure a show like this.... MATCH ONE (15-20 MINUTES) One of the most important matches on the card. Sets the standard for the evening and gets the crowd warmed up for the rest of the night. Good, solid, basic match with two experienced wrestlers, who could not only work in the ring, but work the crowd too. Two people you can trust to deliver the goods, but not go over the top and throw out every spot in history. Meat and potatoes wrestling - nothing too fancy, but good and solid. Opening a show with a match like this, you can go either way on whether you have the villain or blue-eye go over. Really, for me, it depends on the outcome of your third match (end of the first half of the show), which will be a feature match. If I had a villain going over in the third match, I would tend to put the blue-eye over at the start of the show, and vice-versa. It's all about balance. As well as a variety of matches and styles, I felt it was important to balance the results as well. Too many villains going over can bring the energy down when you don't want it to be down, whereas too many blue-eye wins devalues the villains I think, and you don't want your villains losing credibility. Some people advocate putting a rookie match on first, if you have two guys without much experience, but you want to give them a bit of show time. Personally, I think that's absolutely suicidal and can backfire massively. For me, the opening match is crucial in setting the atmosphere and energy for the rest of the night, so you can't leave it to chance like that. MATCH TWO (15-20 MINUTES) Now that you've brought the crowd up with the first match, it's important to give them some time to recoup their energy. You want them to be hot for your third match, which will be one of the main feature matches of the show. This is where I often put on a straight, technical wrestling match, between two blue-eyes. No grudges, no crowd work, lots of good technical wrestling, some nice flashy moves, good sportsmanship, handshakes, etc. Not boring. That's not the idea, contrary to what some people think about having this type of match on a show. You don't want to bore them. You want people to watch the match and be entertained by what's going on still, but by its very nature this type of wrestling doesn't elicit shouting, cheering and masses of emotion. You want them to save that for the next match. Polite, appreciative applause (spontaneous, not the two wrestlers trying to elicit it) is a good gauge here of how successfully this match is going, in terms of achieving your objective. It shows that people are watching the match, seeing the story unfold and still appreciate what's going on, without shouting, screaming and expending loads of energy. With this kind of match on second, it should be even more obvious why match one is so important. If your opening match bombs and people don't get into it at all, your first half is going to feel very long and tedious with this following it. That's why some of your best and most trusted hands should be involved in the opening match. It's not a place for those without a good amount of experience. I would quite often make the second match two out of three falls, utilising the traditional British rounds system with corner seconds, especially if I had someone like Johnny Kidd involved. My shows were a mixture of different wrestling styles, although very traditionally British in feel, so this was a nice way of staying true to that. I would quite often end the match in a draw, either through both wrestlers scoring one fall each and going to the time limit, a double pin in the deciding fall, or an injury finish. The injury finish, and the opponent of the injured wrestler not wanting to accept the decision, was also a nice way of emphasising the sportsman-like nature of the match. MATCH THREE (20 MINUTES) Now that the crowd have regained their energy, this is the match you want them using it for. This match could be one of several different types. It could be a grudge match of some kind, built up from the previous show. It could be a tag match. It could just be a match between two excellent workers, which is virtually guaranteed to deliver a great and engaging match. Depending on what you have booked for your main event, this could also be a title match. I did sometimes put my title matches in this slot on the card, as the 'main event' would often be a grudge match of some kind. This is not only a nice slot, show-wise, for a title match, if you have a grudge match at the end, but it also leads nicely into the interval, and photos in the ring with the champ and belt during the break was always a nice little earner. Again, the booking of the opener was dependent on what was due to happen in this match. If a villain went over in the opening match, and then the second match ended in a draw, if the blue-eye goes over in this third match, generally people are even happier to see them win, because they've been waiting for the result, so the first half ends on a great reaction. On the other side of the coin, if you go into the interval on a villain win (the good guys having won the first match), it doesn't affect anything further on, because we now have the interval, and they've seen a balanced mixture of results anyway. I hope I've explained that properly. INTERVAL (15 MINUTES) An important time, not only for merchandising, etc, but also for communication between the backstage and front-of-house personnel, MC, referees, etc. Not only that but, again, it gives the audience time to cool off before we start again. MATCH FOUR (15-20 MINUTES) This is the time in the show when I tended to put on something a little bit different sometimes. Again, variety here is key. Too many matches following the same formula will not only start to get boring as the show goes on, but there's a danger that people will start to see through them. I appreciate that this might be an outdated way of thinking now everyone and his dog knows wrestling is a work, but it was important to consider things like this during the time I was promoting shows. Things have changed massively in recent years, but I can only speak from my own experience during my timeframe, when things like this were taken into consideration and seen as important. Depending on what the finish of the show is, this match could sometimes be something a little bit gimmicky, such as a submission match, etc, although always with a reason for doing it. I can't stress enough how important that is. Gimmicks and special match stipulations are there to be used, but sparingly and always for a good reason. Again, depending on what the final match is, this slot could also be used for something like a flag match, or some other similar gimmick. With many of my shows taking place in Scotland, having the Scotland vs. England rivalry there as a natural undertone proved useful. My shows were mostly a mixture of Scottish and English wrestlers anyway, which was handy in that respect. The finish of the show is important in deciding what to do with this slot on the card. Many people always used the philosophy 'send them home happy'. However, I didn't subscribe to that. My theory was 'send them home engaged', which more often than not meant the villain going over through some dastardly means, with the outraged punters coming back to see the bastard get his comeuppance. Of course, you have to give them the blowoff eventually, but the shows building up to that were what shifted the tickets to see the final showdown. If this show is your final showdown, where the blue-eye goes over to end the series, then you send them home happy, with that as your main event, absolutely. However, what to do if this is one of the buildup shows for that big showdown? Sometimes I would have the villain going over (and gee up for the return match afterwards) be the end of the show, but sometimes I'd put that match in this slot, then end the evening with a comedy match for the finale - something light-hearted to, yes, send them home happy (sometimes). It was always important, again, to switch things and not be so predictable as to make it the same thing every time. When your shows and finishes are predictable, people start to lose interest, but if you can keep them guessing, that keeps the excitement of not knowing what's going to happen next (and coincidentally they keep buying tickets). If people turn up, basically knowing that the good guy will win the last match every single time, they're not going to be as engaged in that match, so keeping them guessing is important in that respect. RAFFLE / ANNOUNCEMENTS / PLUGS So, what to do between matches four and five, where you can't put in another match to cool the crowd down? Ah, it's the promoter's best friend - the trusty, old raffle. Not only does the raffle make money, but it's also used to separate matches four and five and provide a break in the action, yet again. This might sound excessive, but it really was important to think about these things. I promoted hundreds of wrestling shows during my time and found that this formula worked an absolute treat the vast majority of the time. Not only does the raffle take place here, but it gives the MC time to plug any other shows, special offers, merchandise, etc, as well as announce the date for the next show at the venue, which was a great opportunity to start building those ticket sales in advance of any other advertising. We probably sold 25% of our advance tickets for the next show in the week directly after a show, so getting the date out there, to people who were already interested, proved extremely valuable. MATCH FIVE (15-20 MINUTES) See above really. This could either be a heated grudge match, a title match, a comedy match to send them home happy, so on and so forth. Many of the matches on the card depend on the others, which hopefully I've explained reasonably well above, although I do tend to ramble when I'm writing, so apologies for that. Thanking the audience for coming was always important to me, as I felt that it made them feel part of things. We built up some nice regular audiences over the years I was promoting, and I always liked my MC to engage with the audience, from the beginning to the end, especially in a regular venue. Then there's always time for one last plug for the next show, of course! I didn't mention before about the MC being important in kickstarting the show before any action takes place, but that's just common sense really. A good MC can make such a difference to the atmosphere of a show, before the action even starts. The referees play such a massively important role in the show too, and I always liked to have a regular team of the same people in those roles as often as I could. In terms of the actual wrestling side of things, I had a core group of 6-8 wrestlers who were pretty much always there at every show, but others were rotated in and out, and new people were brought in all the time. It was important to keep things fresh, so bringing new people in to work with your mainstays was important from show to show in a venue. If you use exactly the same roster every time, eventually you run out of combinations, so freshening things up was always good, as well as building those 6-8 people as mainstays. I've probably left some obvious logical gaps here, and maybe not expanded on some points as well as I would have liked, so apologies for that. That's what you get when you start writing at 1am, after having had an average of about three hours' sleep per night for the past month or so! Great information man thank you for sharing. I met Steve Wilde and his son who was training and also working ring crew during my time there. I really agree with a lot of your philosophy in terms of not overdoing match cards and pacing the shows with keeping the rest of the card in mind with match placements.

It wouldn't be such a bad move to use if he didn't apply it so damn loosely. It looks like crap when guys give up to a glorified hold that looks as devastating as a guy on the apron holding your arm back so his partner can take a shot at you.

Obviously. Where the hell has FLIK gone BTW ? He could answer. Yeah I have. When I was watching WWE before I just enjoyed it as a fan, but once I was training after that any miscues where they took more than a second to do a move or miss something after a lock up I noticed it. Something I didn't pay attention to before Wrestling. I agree you can see the moments where something goes wrong or not exactly right and who freezes, who just repeats the spot again and who can think on their feet and make it a part of the story they're trying to get across.

This was great to read and the kind of stuff I was hoping to hear with this thread, thanks for the detailed reply. If you don't mind me asking where did you work when you came here to Canada as you mentioned? Anyway back to it, I agree with your point of training altering or causing a rethinking of tastes as a fan. I was a huge ECW fan as well when I was a teen and thought guys like Rob Van Dam were greatest wrestlers and everyone else as limited. This line of thinking continued over to a young AJ styles in TNA when I saw him too. But once I went through training and began to pick up on the idiosyncrasies I began to look back at some of my favorite stuff and some if it had glaring holes and faults that I wouldn't have noticed as a fan before. Guys like RVD and AJ were not as faultless as I had previously thought and although the initial shock made me question my reasons for thinking they were so great in the first place, I eventually settled into my outlook now of seeing why some areas of fans see that greatness and where I can be more accepting and open of criticisms of them that I might have not been open to before as a fan. I also became more focused on the stories a match is trying to tell like you spoke about and became less fulfilled or excited by the random highspot-fests (although some are exceptions as always) and more interested in well layred and well told dramas and stories told with the techniques and the expressions/selling used. Also I became way more noticing of the crowds reactions as well, when I was watching before I always was focused on the moves and the wrestlers and the crowd was background noise where now if the crowd isn't reacting even if the work is great then it does take something away from the match for me. I agree as well that card structure when watching a show also has changed for me and even for shows featuring lots of guys I enjoy like PWG, the steal the show match mindset one after the other combined with the lack of refined story telling structure even with an hot crowd burns me out and I rarely watch the full show in 1 sitting. I would love to hear more about you're experiences in booking cards and who you learned from and their philosophy and points about card structure but that might be a better fit for another thread if you'd feel like sharing it at all. But glad to hear you are enjoying watching the old stuff even if the product today doesn't interest you, especially after 12 years as you said of being a worker. It gives me hope that if I choose to go back and pursue wrestling again that I can still come out of it a fan of my beloved stuff that I still enjoy today haha.

Awesome man, I myself wrestled freestyle for many years at the national level here in Canada and messed around with random martial arts. I like your music analogy and that does really explain some of the change of thinking I feel when watching wrestling now vs as just a fan beforehand though that doesn't make any difference in the legitimacy of my opinion. I'm also sometimes critical of high level pro wrestlers who can't execute some basic matwork (90% rule, I make exceptions if that's their gimmick like Sandman) or mess up a move that most can do like an example I gave in a previous comment of a guy like Miz who managed to bungle the Figure 4 during his and Flair's big moment on RAW. And I agree on the opposite end with your comment of me becoming a fan of a wrestler for simple things like great mat work or some intricate moves with the extreme examples being a guy like Volk Han.

I love visiting and reading this board and all the knowledgeable discussion and was wondering with all the insight as fans and researchers that lots of members give have any of you tried or went through a wrestling camp or school and any actually work some matches? - If so do you feel it changed your ability to just watch as a pure fan? and why did you stop pursuing wrestling it if you no longer do it? - Also for those that haven't tried it what were your reasons not to? and do you think that someone who has trained will always see matches from a different perspective than yourselves and judge it with different values? This isn't about bragging or dumping on those who have or haven't worked and how their perception of wrestling is more legitimate or not but more so to hear others experiences, maybe some fun stories or thoughts etc. To start I'll share that i myself actually went to the Storm Wrestling Academy and wrestled in and around towns in Alberta for 1 year before leaving due to family needs and moving back home to the maritimes. I've worked in the ring with guys like Lance Storm (of course), Harry Smith, Nick Dinsmore, Johnny Devine and others. I also was on the ring crew for the Hart Legacy Card that ran in 2013 out of the Pavillion in Calgary which was cool and crazy night in and of itself (but that's a story for another time). Also I was around lots of vets like Luke Williams,Karl Moffat,Gama Singh, and of course the Harts which was great for the different perspectives of wrestling. I found that in that period during and shortly after my training I stopped seeing wrestling matches as a fan and more so as an aspiring worker which at first was almost like stopping being a fan. But as time rolled on I could in my mind switch it off and look at it with both perspectives which gives me a personal greater appreciation for some things that may not have before impressed me and also gave me some comprehension and reasoning on why some things aren't done. So currently I'm just a fan again going to trade school and enjoying talking to other fans here on this board with hopes of one day getting back into the ring while I'm still young but as I'm not in the top shape anymore that I feel I should be to be in a professional ring it's gonna require some dedication to a better diet and workout regime before I get to do that. But when I watch now it's mostly 90% to enjoy as a fan and the 10% in the back of my head taking mental notes of things that might be useful if I choose to return to working indies. My perception has changed with all the added information and personal experiences I had but I feel overall it allows my tastes as a fan to expand and also to appreciate some of the nuances of some styles that having felt working in a ring can be greatly appreciated where they might be not as evident to those not familiar with being in a ring. So like I said no shaming or chest puffing just genuinely curious if others have stories, opinions, or thoughts to share coming from both sides of those who are workers and fans and non workers fans about how those factor into your mindset of watching the thing we all enjoy?

I interpreted as him referring to the rough executions of Miz's fundamentals and overall ringwork which for a guy with that many years at a high level I agree with. To be fair that's not what Miz's strengths are since it's his personality and promo ability that's kept him in his spot but even NJPW young boys which is one of the easiest examples to watch are smoother workers and in ring mechanics in their first couple dozen matches than Miz. I always was of the opinion that Miz would've made a better manager/occasional wrestler like a Heenan or Piper in his early WWF run than a full time worker and never should've been world champion or main event of 'Mania but since it's a different time he got the chances he did because he did have something worth utilising. My Miz moment that exemplified this was the time where they built up his babyface turn and paired him with Flair after months of speculation by the backstage news following fans that thought it was gonna be Ziggler and then weeks of teasing on TV which led to the big moment of it being Miz.....and Miz fucks up the figure 4 leglock, a move that me and my 8 year old friends did back in the day watching TV. That embodied the Miz as a worker to me, he has everything else but no matter how much time you give him or years of experience he just doesn't have it in his in ring work. But to be fair that's fair play to Miz because he isn't playing to the type of fans that Dave is speaking to when he talks about this so I don't understand what there is to cringe at?

I'm on disc 3 myself and am really enjoying this set. Sure there are some long time desired matches people want to see like the Bret/Mcgee match, the Undertaker/Macho match from the teaser and the LOD tag title switch but what we did get are fun and easy to watch for the most part with a few gems. I hope this does well enough to warrant some sequels and even maybe some for NWA/WCW like suggested or even ECW too.

I'm a big shootstyle fan, I'll definitely give this a listen when I have some time and give some feedback.

Basically as I understand it, Suzuki wanted to work shootstyle and Apollo wanted to work wrasslin'-style and never the twain shall meet. Eventually Sugawara just gave up and left the ring. Basically as I understand it, Suzuki wanted to work shootstyle and Apollo wanted to work wrasslin'-style and never the twain shall meet. Eventually Sugawara just gave up and left the ring. Thank you so much for answering and proving the match. That was as interesting to watch as the Kitao/Tenta one, can't believe I never heard of it after all these years.