SPS

Seems really cool, I'll have to check this one out. Thanks for posting about it

What did she do to get canned her first night in?

That's what I heard as well that Quack's wife left him after he got busted fooling around with one of his female students. Also while we're talking about Quack has anyone here heard of the Infamous Mike Quackenbush thread on CZWfans that people have referenced on Reddit? It's been taken down but I'd love to see what it was all about as I've heard Quack has quite the list of strange and dickish behavior.

I always took it as him subconsciously torturing guys that he could never be, most of the Power Plant guys were tall,athletic, chick magnet types being groomed for success in the number 1/2 company in the country and Sarge was never gonna get that and was lucky to get a jobber spot as a leprechaun in the Dungeon of Doom. So he just tortured the shit out of them and wanted to drive as many off as possible.

First Sambo was not dominate in the first 15 years of MMA(meaning 1993-2008), it had only a handful of practitioners that made it to the top of the elite promotions. Fedor Emelianenko,Andrei Arelovski, and Oleg Taktarov being the 3 biggest with guys like Sergei Kharitonov,Mikhail Ilyukhin,Andrei Semenov,Amar Suloev,Aleksander Emelianenko being highly ranked. That's less than 10 fighters who are definitively Sambo fighters and not guys from other arts who also did some Sambo. Nowhere near being dominate as there are more UFC champions alone not accounting for PRIDE or other big name promotions from 1993-2008 that practiced other disciplines that had more successful representatives than Sambo. Second Fedor didn't lose to TK in PRIDE but in RINGS(which you seem to talk about a lot so I don't know how you didn't realize this). It was due to a cut from an illegal elbow by TK as in RINGS elbows were only allowed if you wore elbow pads and as this was a Tournament(The King of Kings Tournament) someone had to advance and winner had to be declared so TK was given the TKO victory. Also as mentioned Danielson didn't train with Randy Couture, only at his Vegas gym and with Couture's grappling coach and Bryan's roomate Neil Melanson, a great grappler and catch wrestling instructor.

I've seen this place mentioned in other spots like Reddit on r/squaredcircle but the general feeling I see from most is that a lot of the perception of people involved here come off as elitist and snobbish(although that's really not true a great majority of the time in my experience). I've tried commenting and inviting others but have never gotten any takers to my knowledge who show up and join just due to how some of the more recognizable members like say Bix who writes for Deadspin get referenced in their comments. When his articles and tweets are posted every now and again on Squared Circle, he mostly gets flack for how people perceive him with some of his opinions and thoughts but really in all my dealings with him here in conversation even when on opposite sides of discussion have always found him to be knowledgeable and friendly. I really don't know what could be done to boost some new blood in which is a shame because I've learned a ton from the discussions had here since I've joined and I think there are other passionate fans who would be the same if they realized how good a crew most are on this forum with the amount of knowledge and resources shared.

God I hope we get an Angle/Bryan match just to have one even if it won't be what it could've been way back when.

Tiger Jeet Singh can be described in a lot of ways but technique and execution among realism isn't some of the ones I've ever heard.

For fuck's sake. This kind of spot was embarrassing and awkward to watch 25 years ago. Maybe for me or you but there were arenas full of people of all types who popped for it and still do. So what can fans who like us here who are are saying 'no this is wrong and promotes rape culture' do to prevent it from being done anymore? What actions can we take to not reward those who are felt to be responsible? and how to we determine who is responsible? Would it be the be the company? the booker/agent? the talent involved? Like I mentioned a few comments ago regarding the Brandi Rhodes and Kenny Omega spot since it was the most recent use of this kind of spot on a widely seen show, should we as fans refuse to attend/watch their shows and refuse to give them money and to buy their merch because they performed an act that supports Rape Culture?

I'm going to take a break for a while, I didn't get anything for this past week anyway. I'll reach out when I have time to get back in but it was a lot of fun and thanks for all the great match trades everyone.

I only question it because of it being such a cliched spot compared to some of the other examples I've seen posted in this thread since it started, WWE even did it last year to no giant uproar outside a few tweets I saw of people complaining about it. So with the recent example I gave of Brandi Rhodes and Kenny Omega performing this spot recently in ROH, how do we as fans who are posting stuff like this as examples of Rape Culture work to stop this stuff from happening anymore? Should there be a boycott against the ROH or NJPW cards coming up featuring those involved? Boycott the All In show since part of the story that built the feud presumed to be leading into the show is something that supports Rape Culture? What more can be done with these examples as fans saying we don't want to see talent or groups rewarded for pushing stories or talents involved in supporting Rape Culture?

It is not the point. It's simply yet another instance of Rape Culture in pro-wrestling, which is what this thread is all about. I don't think the topic of Rape Culture is simple and so the examples to me aren't always simple and cut and dry. If everyone is just posting examples but not having any discussion about them then what benefit is it? You yourself responded to NintendoLogic's example of Muta in HUSTLE "impregnating" Yinling by blowing mist into her crotch in this thread as "That was pretty much alien comedy, with maybe a wee-bit of hentai. " So you can excuse an example with jokes but I can't offer any comments or thoughts of the cliche kiss the heel valet spot ? So, you are deliberately trying to present yourself as the DEFENDER of rape culture in pro wrestling? That is a very bizarre choice to make. Do you think it is a GOOD thing? Not a defender of it, just trying to define it. I think anything that promotes sexual assault or rape is something that nobody should support. I just find it being so broad and vague when a cliche spot done by both men and women is being included in with other more heinous examples I've seen mentioned regarding Rape Culture in Pro Wrestling. I also find it strange for those who include Pro Wrestling as a media that expresses or displays social norms when the environment of pro wrestling includes such a wide array of things that go against social norms.

Absolutely, 2016 and 2018 has seen quite a widespread growth in awareness and campaigning for things like sexual harassment and things related to Rape Culture. So I'd say the year does matter as well as the example. My thoughts are along the lines of if the kiss the heel valet spot is if it's something people would say in 2018 looking back is another prime example of Rape Culture and that it makes wrestling looks bad to fans and non-fans alike then how do you navigate promoting older footage or talents which featured or involved people doing these things? In the most recent example I gave of Brandi Rhodes and Kenny Omega in ROH, who do you fault for using a cliched spot like this 2 years after the example given? If the unwanted kiss spot is an example of Rape Culture in 2016 and is still being done in 2017 with Flair/Lynch and 2018 with Brandi/Kenny and being committed by both sexes on the opposite gender in recent times then why is this allowed to continue to take place? Are Lynch,Omega and Brandi that out of touch?(I won't include Flair since he has plenty against him). How as fans should we discourage Rape Culture aside from just pointing it out?

But he said it was in 2016

What is Ansynd?

It is not the point. It's simply yet another instance of Rape Culture in pro-wrestling, which is what this thread is all about. I don't think the topic of Rape Culture is simple and so the examples to me aren't always simple and cut and dry. If everyone is just posting examples but not having any discussion about them then what benefit is it? You yourself responded to NintendoLogic's example of Muta in HUSTLE "impregnating" Yinling by blowing mist into her crotch in this thread as "That was pretty much alien comedy, with maybe a wee-bit of hentai. " So you can excuse an example with jokes but I can't offer any comments or thoughts of the cliche kiss the heel valet spot ?

Magnum Milano SHOOTS on shodate

You read Japanese? its helps i was born there lol there very good books indeed they are Neat, I would love to learn to read Japanese just due to the great books I've heard they have covering wrestling. If you still have those books maybe you'd consider doing a book review thread or something on this site where you could share some the bullet points and overview of some Japanese wrestling books for those of us who can't read them.

I agree with you something like that can make wrestling look bad to a non fan but lots of things done in pro wrestling would look bad to non fans. I am glad you shared it as I'm enjoying the conversation with you and Bix as I can always learn something from threads like this as anyone can but I do think context matters in situations like this as well as personal accountability. I can't believe anyone of sound mind would look to fantasy as a guide to or justification for their own actions in society.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over this, did the crowd cheer? did anyone including yourself get up and leave out of offence? Really people know the deal when it comes to pro wrestling and they know these people are working a performance so anyone in the ring or around it is obviously in and consenting on whatever is happening to them. If the same thing happened to a woman in line at the concessions then the same people cheering would probably react quite differently because what happens in reality is not played by the same rules as in the world of pro wrestling. Still I agree it's a spot that younger talent should probably not take up as the world is changing but an old timer now like Tatanka working with a consenting valet is not something I think is a big issue. If anyone over the age of 12 has their morals or actions swayed by doing something done in a wrestling show then they obviously have something seriously wrong with them and any parent that doesn't explain or communicate what the difference between the wrestlers performing things in a show and how they should act in reality is, then they probably shouldn't be taking their kids to wrestling shows either. What a ridiculous argument. Norms change from how things are portrayed in media. Fantasy and things like pro wrestling aren't the type of media that anyone gets their norms or ethics from watching. A spot on an indie show from 2 years ago is hardly something that's going to corrupt any rational person. That's not the point. Sexual assault committed by the good guy in a fictional work bring portrayed as a laudable activity is exactly the type of thing people are referring to when they talk about rape culture in media, at least. Will seeing this angle influence someone? Not necessarily. But seeing something like this over and over has real potential issues. I think it is the point, not only is this spot not really seen much at all anymore(the only notable one being Ric Flair and Becky Lynch and it was met with negativity and hasn't been used since to my knowledge) but also who do you think is acting this way and justifying it based on what they've seen in wrestling or any other fantasy media? Pro Wrestling has never been seen as a realistic form of media that would guide any individual on how to physically act within the norms of society. Problems in pro wrestling are literally solved by fighting and sometimes with multiple people beating down 1 individual. Does that mean due to the violence culture of the US we should be uncomfortable and not allow this to happen in the context of a pro wrestling show? Should Brandi Rhodes be criticized for kissing an non consenting Kenny Omega in that Bury The Bear ROH angle? Should it be held in the same criticism that Katy Perry got for stealing a kiss from that young man on American Idol? Do those two situations go along on the same level with this Tanaka/valet spot or the Flair/Lynch spot of being terrible portrayals in media? Also who is at fault? The promotions or companies that allowed it? The participants who agreed to perform it? or the fans who sat there and witnessed it but didn't get up and leave in protest? I agree with Bix in saying the media can have a big influence in communicating and enforcing the societal norms but within scripted fantasy I don't know anyone who would do something against someones consent and justify it because they saw a pro wrestling spot.

You read Japanese?

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over this, did the crowd cheer? did anyone including yourself get up and leave out of offence? Really people know the deal when it comes to pro wrestling and they know these people are working a performance so anyone in the ring or around it is obviously in and consenting on whatever is happening to them. If the same thing happened to a woman in line at the concessions then the same people cheering would probably react quite differently because what happens in reality is not played by the same rules as in the world of pro wrestling. Still I agree it's a spot that younger talent should probably not take up as the world is changing but an old timer now like Tatanka working with a consenting valet is not something I think is a big issue. If anyone over the age of 12 has their morals or actions swayed by doing something done in a wrestling show then they obviously have something seriously wrong with them and any parent that doesn't explain or communicate what the difference between the wrestlers performing things in a show and how they should act in reality is, then they probably shouldn't be taking their kids to wrestling shows either. What a ridiculous argument. Norms change from how things are portrayed in media. Fantasy and things like pro wrestling aren't the type of media that anyone gets their norms or ethics from watching. A spot on an indie show from 2 years ago is hardly something that's going to corrupt any rational person.