brockobama

Jokes aside, Pirata is basically a lock for my list. I don't know that I agree with the "best trios worker ever" assessment (seeing him work all these matches alongside or against Satanico has me leaning the other way) though I'm sympathetic to the weak-link-Masakre argument and agree with everything @cad outlined above. Time and again I watch these tags and find some spot, some bump, some bit of selling or comedy that makes me think "man, Pirata, you didn't need to go that hard”—and often it'll be accompanied by five or six others moments approaching that level. Right now I think I'll have him as the last luchador on my list. It's not so much his short peak that keeps him from climbing higher as it is how relatively underwhelming I found some of these big apuestas and title matches, especially the Brazo de Oro and '91 Mascara Sagrada bouts. At least on first blush they feel like long, obsequious matches in which Pirata is merely doing good stuff in proximity to a lesser worker; I'd rather get the impression that a wrestler is grabbing an inferior talent by the shoulders, rousing them out of their worst habits, and dragging them toward something more complete and compelling. Sick bumps and strong selling aren't quite enough, at least compared to some other miracle workers I have to find room for on my ballot. That said, I did stumble on a great example of this sort of elevation and it's what secures Pirata a spot on my list: the cage match apuestas against Mascara Sagrada in 1999 IWRG. Here we have a bloodbath every bit as grimy and gross as what Pirata was doing a decade earlier, coaxing an intensity out of Sagrada that I had certainly never seen before (whether in this famous '91 title match or, really, anything leading up to this cage match), and pulling out the sorts of spots I thought were well behind him by this point in his career. In particular I really love this bump where the two are slugging it out on the side of the cage and Pirata whiffs on a punch, sailing head over heels off the top rope. Randomly clicking around Youtube as I try to figure out who I should revisit next, only to find an eye-opening match from well outside a wrestler's canonical peak, is exactly the sort of thing that makes or breaks a GWE case.

Surprised, going back to some of these matches, how often he's spitting blood. Sometimes it'll be multiple times a night. Bit of a spot monkey imo, wish Satanico grabbed a headlock and told him to slow it down brother, we already got their money.

My first favorite wrestler. Don't know that I'd be watching wrestling today—let alone involved in a process like this—without stumbling upon this skinny Iowa kid coming out to Duran Duran. "Creative" and "charismatic" are definitely the words that define his case to me. Professional wrestling is already full of seedy, unsavory characters and deathmatch wrestling perhaps even more so; that a guy like Havoc can be a beloved figure even years after his retirement and death, as the deathmatch scene has shifted in such a different direction and emphasized such different personalities, speaks to his appeal. If there's such a thing as a white meat babyface with septum piercings and a worrying affinity for Nordic black metal, then Danny Havoc is basically barbed wire Tito Santana. He does not gesture so directly toward the crowd as the all-time great faces (this is a 2000s indie dude we're talking about, after all) but I find it pretty much impossible not to buy into his best matches. A good deathmatch at least approaches life or death stakes and few were better at looking like they might literally die out there as young Havoc getting ragdolled around by the likes of Hyde and Wifebeater. In a style plagued by painfully laborious matches from less-than-stellar athletes, Havoc's svelte frame and snappy offense also stand out in a big way; he can still get bogged down in setting up the next light tube contraption to bump through but the energetic execution of said spots (and all the others in between) make for a very different viewing experience. Can't think of many times I ever felt bored watching Danny Havoc wrestle. Now, maybe that's the absolute bare minimum we'd ask of a potential Greatest Wrestler Ever and indeed, I don't know that I'm going to be able to squeeze Havoc onto my list. His career was not long (with basically no high end matches after 2012), was not especially varied, and took place almost entirely in one independent promotion that only shrank in popularity during his time there. But if you're into deathmatch wrestling, especially the American scene, there are scant few cases that outdo his. Will echo the recommendations above for the Thumbtack Jack, Sami Callihan, Jun Kasai (which was April 2011, not 2009 @HeadCheese), and Drew Gulak matches. He and TJ were very similar wrestlers who had a similar impact on their respective scenes, two dyed-in-the-wool deathmatch freaks who were more workrate-oriented than the guys they grew up watching. Their matches suffer somewhat from that accordant ambition and derivativeness but they're always enjoyable imo. Callihan's similar but also so much more of a live wire who brings a refreshing relentlessness (and willingness to be ridiculed; god I miss the airhorns) to CZW; their 2009 feud is a lot of fun and culminates in, for my money, the best Cage of Death (non-ROH edition) in terms of overall quality. Would call 2009 the best single year for deathmatch wrestling and the stuff that Havoc, Callihan, and TJ were doing together is a big, big part of that. (Also Havoc's peak year fwiw.) The Kasai match is the rare dream match that hits (though not quite to the level of these others) and is an interesting look at how Havoc responds to being in the ring with a much bigger star. Then that Gulak NRBW is perhaps the crown jewel of his case: a slow burn deathmatch with a guy who'd never done anything like it before, one in which he helps stir a small crowd into a brief frenzy at the thought of this bare-legged asshole finally getting what's coming to him. I had it somewhere in the back half of my top 100 matches of the decade. That Arik Cannon match in Chikara is also worth seeking out. Havoc takes a wicked suplex on the hardwood floor; even in "clean cut" matches just a few months into his career, it was easy to impress with the big bumping ability he had. Basically any of his bouts against the aforementioned DJ Hyde, Wifebeater, and Brain Damage illustrate the same in a deathmatch setting. Some more matches that might be relevant to his case: vs Scotty Vortekz - Barefoot Thumbtacks, Bottle Caps, etc. match, IWA-MS KOTDM 2008 (06/21/08): Really appreciate barefoot thumbtack matches for how much they force wrestlers out of their comfort zones; asked to eschew the relatively ephemeral spectacle of bumping through light tubes, can these guys make the everyday pain of stepping on something sharp just as compelling? Think Danny does quite alright with it. And for those who are still in the mood for the death-defying spectacle, I recall the scaffold match final of this tournament being pretty good too. vs Yuko Miyamoto - Death from Above Match, IWA East Coast Masters of Pain 2009 (11/07/09): Delightful deathmatch with another high energy fave of my youth. Nothing exceptional here but worth watching for how they get the most out of a few good whips into the corner and a silly swing gimmick, in a tournament setting where they have to save something for other matches. vs Biff Busick - CZW Prelude to Violence (05/31/14) - Not a full-on deathmatch, more of a traditional arena brawl with a no-nonsense slugger well outside Havoc's wheelhouse. vs Rickey Shane Page - CZW Tournament of Death XIV (06/13/15) and Cage of Death XVII (12/12/2015): Two matches in which Havoc, by now a grizzled vet, seeks to prove whether RSP has what it takes to join the deathmatch scene. Definitely don't get RSP becoming one of the biggest heels on the American indies for a minute without the groundwork laid here by Havoc, getting the Philly-area fans to buy into a gimmicky ex-yarder. vs Alex Colon - CZW Down with the Sickness 2017 (09/09/17): Havoc's retirement match (he'd come back for a benefit show and brief Japan tour a few years later) against the guy who, by this point, was pretty comfortably the best worker on the American scene. Dramatic and enjoyable.

Really appreciate @cad's writeup a few posts back. It's what I'm always looking for when I open a nominee's thread: a detailed, impassioned illustration of a wrestler's career and helpful guide as to how the rest of us can see such sights if we're willing to take the hike. Hats off, man. Watching some of this Piratita and Damiancito stuff I'd never seen, my mind kept drifting towards CIMA and the other big figures of the Toryumon/Dragon Gate scene. That was a style I loved dearly as a teenager and have since grown away from but still have some fondness for, at least in its ideal multi-man tag format. I don't agree that these minis matches are among the best trios bouts ever but they do compare favorably to the Dragon System stuff I can still stomach. What separates Virus from those DG icons (none of whom are making my list) is his versatility, adaptability, and longevity. These guys were all on the cutting edge of slick, exciting highspot wrestling in the late 90s. Twenty years later, Virus manages to have my 2019 MOTY in the Metalico despedida; his Japanese counterparts are years past anything like that, not to mention the ability to have enjoyable undercard matches month in and month out with schlubs and no-namers. Says a lot that this guy can have high-end performances that match my particular taste as it shifts over the course of a few decades. He'll enjoy a comfortable spot on my ballot.

Can't believe Killer Khan would do such a thing. How dare he lay hands on his coworker. Never liked his work anyway, he gets hurt all the time. If Giant Baba were half the man Tony Khan is, he'd have been fired on the spot. Great work once again Cameren, really enjoyed this.

Wow someone hasn't seen the era-defining Lesnar feud

Gruesome in the most gripping way. Plenty of perfectly reasonable people find bloodbaths too offputting to be worth investing in but I don't know how you couldn't be invested in Jay Briscoe's fight for survival. It doesn't have the same lasting impact as the Mania match by any means but with Samoa Joe nominally the face at the start of this match and Jay far more sympathetic by the end, I think we should be talking about this alongside Bret/Austin as one of the great double turns. Watching this back for the twentieth anniversary I was struck both by how well it escalates and how modest a match it really is. The former comes easy enough—the mounting dread of watching Jay bleed more and more, seemingly faster all the while—but the latter is a thing of beauty. It's less than 15 minutes long, each guy hits a single finisher, I'm not even sure there's three pinfall attempts in this whole thing. It feels so unlike the mental image you have of a big ROH match but neither does it feel out of place on this show, not nearly so much as some other cage matches in the promotion's history. The emphasis on the blood and on a few dramatic moments (as well as the action itself living up to that bloodletting; this has gotta be Joe's best and most brutal avalanche Muscle Buster) gets them so far. Probably a top 100 match ever for me. Some of that's nostalgia but god man, I can feel it in my gut whenever I watch it again. Incredible stuff.

Would Fuego fit in with this Dancer group or am I thinking too literally about that name? Certainly doesn't seem as over as the rest of those guys.

Real frustrating misfire of an apuestas match, even if there's still plenty of good wrestling here. I don't mind Cerebro trying to prove early on that he can beat Santo straight up (and does so perfectly well with the finish to that first fall) but trying to beat the man at his own highflying game doesn't come across nearly so well, both because Cerebro's not nearly so good at it and because it's a real step back from their bloody brawl in February. I'm never sitting there thinking "oh boy I hope the blowoff to this bitter rivalry is less emotionally intense than the matches that came before," you know? Wouldn't say Santito brings the heat here either and is probably to blame for the format this thing takes but it doesn't reflect well on Cerebro when he's as subdued as he is to lose his own mask.

Now this is the good stuff. Don't agree with OJ's assertion that the first fall is sloppy unless he means the cerebrina II finish specifically, in which case it didn't factor much for me. The primera, as with the rest of the match, is gritty and uncooperative in the way I want a grudge match to be and if some tottering around as one guy tries to apply a submission is the price to pay, so be it. Likewise I think Santo's comeback is better than standard (helped by an excellent closeup of Cerebro's bloody mask in the replay of the camel clutch) but I do agree the tercera is where this really rockets off into the stratosphere. Santito really sells the anger of having been cheated by Cerebro last time and brings a level of spite and pettiness that serves this super libre match so well. There's no particular move that's so spectacular that it makes the match special (aside from Cerebro's post shot which is maybe the best of those I've ever seen) but it's approached with an intensity that is undeniably fun. Can't wait to watch this mask match.

Very uneven match but with some real highlights. The matwork in that first fall is certainly quite good, worth the price of admission alone, and while Cerebro's nervousness does allow him to be smothered by Santito more than I'd like to see, he contributes more than his fair share to a memorable primera. The second and third falls, until Santito's comeback, are far more underwhelming. Some of that's on Cerebro not bringing the sort of intensity you need to really threaten a legend in the prime of his career and some of that's on Santo not picking up the slack. Business picks up again once both men begin hitting some beautiful dives, with Cerebro's dive setting up a dramatic countout tease the likes of which I don't recall seeing too often in lucha libre. Finish feels cheap even by indie lucha standards but thankfully this is only the first match between these two over the next few months.

Is there any hard delineation between the Brazo de Plata and Super Porky names? Does he go from using Plata to using Porky at a specific time or does he just use them both interchangeably?

Ah is this why Takeshi Kitano was involved in late '87 with the Sumo Hall riot and everything? Always seemed like a weird celebrity angle even considering his popularity.

Had a question about something in an old Observer and couldn't find anywhere better to ask it so here goes. From the January 7th, 2002 Wrestling Observer Newsletter: Can anyone speak to this claim Dave makes about shooty matwork being to blame for NJPW "losing casuals" and getting its TV timeslot moved? Never heard anything like that before. Seems more likely to me that it was due to any number of other issues NJPW had in the 80s. Not sure if the timeline even matches up here, when exactly did that show get pushed to Saturday afternoons?

The two AEW crowds you saw are not all wrestling fans man, come on

Oh I don't know about that, there are plenty of dumb deathmatch scolds out there. I mean look at the reaction whenever there's a bloody AEW match. I would say there's no small amount of people who think "well I don't agree with him that the (((liberal cabal))) is eating baby brains in pizza shop basements but light tubes are where I draw the line."

There are definitely some telltale signs that they're doing so, at least with a few of their latest shirts

Know so many people who first got into punk/hardcore/etc. because of CM Punk's rise to prominence in the 2000s (and honestly the only reason I didn't was that I got into wrestling later in life)

Damn. He bamboozled us, gang.

Can imagine he's (been) having regrets about the egregious stuff they did in that period after Eddie's death and now feels bad at any mention of his uncle's name on television.

I can fix her

Too many rats on board will sink a ship as much as anything. Boat can only handle so much weight. Gonna start a new thread, "is the empire TOO successful before our eyes?"

Think that's the new AEW Saturday show

Along with that I'd reiterate something I said a page or two back, which is that anybody left watching WWE at this point is likely in too deep to get shaken off by something as trivial as booking. These rats are going down with the ship.

Real recognize real. You guys got any relatives with favorite wrestlers? None of mine ever liked the stuff unfortunately.