Big Pete

I gave this a listen. The TL;DR is that fans are overly critical and overreact whenever AEW has a poor show. They feel this is because of three types of fans/influencers: 1) Monday Night War Revivalists who rely solely on business metrics and how they compare to the WWE. If ratings are down or the show draws a bad house then it's a sign that AEW is in trouble and they need to make radical changes to compete. 2) Alternative Skeptics who grew up on WWE and believe that any other style of presentation or practice is inherently flawed. 3) Grifters who criticize the show to line their own pockets. I think they touched on some interesting points but I don't think their analysis was as thorough as it could have been. Fans don't compare AEW's success to just minimize them, they compare it because AEW does it themselves. Whether it's comparing themselves to WCW or making references to the WWE on their television show they're inviting those discussions. On one hand they're rallying those bitter ex-WWE fans who want to take back Pro Wrestling, but they're also inciting the 'E-drones' or 'Vincels' to respond. The fans aren't making the comparison, it's the owner and management constantly drawing references. To the point where the major storyline is that their current champion is off contract in 2024 and is threatening to go to the WWE. The other problem is that the show itself isn't driving the discourse. Yes the talent are going out there with the intention of putting on epic matches but for whatever reason they're not captivating enough to dominate discussion. Why is that? Is it because guys are over-extending themselves? Is it the booking? Because there's more to it than the show is great and delivering all-time classic wrestling segments, the fans are just too blind to see it! There needs to be a middle ground. AEW has produced some great wrestling but they've suffered some setbacks and they've lost the confidence of some of their fans. It doesn't mean they can't win it back and it'll be interesting to see how they shift the perception.

This was the period I tapped out for basically all the reasons outlined. It was just clear with new management that they were throwing whatever they could against the wall and trying to see what would stick. This became really difficult when major talent would leave the company between tapings so you could never get invested in what was happening. This eased somewhat when Callis/D'Amore came in but by that point my interest in Impact had dulled to where it is now where I check in every six months or so. The only exception was Kenny Omega who drew me in and came out stronger because of how well he was booked in Impact.

I was actually following the product around this time. NXT was actively recruiting from Impact and instead of seeing guys showing up on NXT and being told how good they were on Impact I wanted to judge it for myself. The only time you'd hear about Impact is if one of their top guys left or they did something actively bad. I will say the Broken Matt Hardy stuff was an exception at that time. Fans were so burnt out on the Hardys by this point, this bold direction they took with the Broken universe was actually fresh. Plus on a show that was only being watched by hardcore fans who knew everything ahead of time, the vignettes were one of the few things you actually had to tune into see. And yeah I loved the Allie stuff at the time and think by the end of it everyone becomes way more interesting just for being involved. Even Bennett as the battered husband and a window into Suttor's future was enjoyable in his role. Unfortunately Allie was never really able to hit those highs again. I kept tabs but the Rosemary stuff was just too hit and miss and her biggest angle in AEW was duping QT Marshall which says it all really... One of the biggest issues with a show on it's last legs is that everything has to be taped in large stretches. It gave the show this manufactured feel where it seemed like guys would appear exactly on the same spot on the card in each episode, all the title belts would swap over every six weeks and guys would go missing for months if they happened to miss those tapings. The Death Crew Council was DOA, it was hard to buy either Storm or Kingston in the gimmick and it was odd they'd still wear their mask after willingly exposing their identities on TV. It was just a waste of those guys and considering the roster was so bare-bones they were having Snow/Shera work the Tribunal it said something. One benefit of having Billy Corgan involved was having access to licensed music. The Decay coming out to Marilyn Manson's 'Nobodies' was a genuinely good fit that boosted their stocks. I'm not sure if I was being too harsh at the time, but I remember thinking Corgan's body-guard Ryan Braddock was just a waste of screen time. What was the name of that title they wrestled in rounds for? The Grand Championship or something? I get TNA were trying to do something different to create some buzz and I think Drew picked up some kind of injury but that was another misfire. Not only is wrestling in rounds a pretty tricky gimmick to pull off, but weren't they having Moose and Aron Rex fighting over it? Still, there was a ton of talent on the show and despite the ship sinking it gave me the impression they were giving their best effort. I wasn't shocked at all to see so many people picked up by the WWE, most of them deserved it (Shera getting a gig shocked me - yes he has size, but really?). I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but outside of the Hardy compound stuff my favourite match was between Davey Richards-Lashley on one of those taped PPVs. I just remember that match having just a bit more intensity than the Eddie-Lashley match. Final note - for whatever reason there was always something endearing about Eddie. I always lump him together with Davey and Roderick and of the three I don't think Eddie was as polished as the others yet he always came off as a more appealing babyface.

Ricky had a backstage scuffle with Swerve over a spot in one of their matches and a planned match was cancelled over it. They've buried the hatchet and Starks is set to appear on Swerve's pod and they'll shed more light on it. I think this only came to light a few days ago? It sounds pretty consistent from stories with Starks who can be confrontational but is always willing to forgive and forget.

Mitch The Plant? Didn't they bury that shtick on the infamous TIJ podcast? It just speaks to Jericho's comfort zone and how long he's been recycling ideas.

We talk about how MJF always makes his opponents go through trials, what about Jericho feuding with people over membership of his club? We've had feuds with Moxley, MJF, Ricky Starks that all centered around Jericho offering them a spot in his feud. Then we've had feuds with the Blackpool Combat Club who dared to poach a young talent like Daniel Garcia, or with Eddie Kingston who wanted to take Santana & Ortiz off his hands. Not only has it become stale but there's only so much interest you can build off those feuds. Even the Orange Cassidy feud became about Cassidy ruining Jericho's jacket. There's just no meat to it. It's like trying to get invested in a feud that revolves around somebody calling their opponent Booger McBoogerson. Which is fine for Jericho because he's comfortable being at a certain level as long as he's featured on television. However when you want to build interest in other stars it actively takes away from them.

It was a poisoned chalice for Cody, but they did a good job of making it a struggle and Cody having to take some risks to get rid of Gunther who was protected in defeat. It didn't feel like Cody won because Gunther choked or had the co-ordination of a drunk rhino, they went mano-e-mano and Cody coming in ahead of schedule clutched it out against one of the best. I'd say the WWE have millions of reasons why.

I thought the Men's Royal Rumble was sensibly booked. Over the years the match has gotten carried away with the surprise entrances and comedy stuff, it was refreshing to have a match filled with guys who actually matter as singles sticking it out. It was nice to see them advance some angles with Brock-Bobby, Rey-Dom, Edge-Judgment Day and Logan-Rollins. I thought it did a good job of showcasing the right talent and then peaking at the right time. The match really hinged on Logan Paul & Cody and both guys absolutely delivered. Logan came up with the spot of the match with Ricochet and Cody had a tough job but ultimately his victory felt earned. I thought they got out of dodge with that Mountain Dew match, but it still didn't make a lick of sense tone wise. For a match that was meant to showcase what Bray can do and why you don't want to piss him off, getting clubbed in the back and losing to a snap Sister Abigail wasn't the worst loss to take. Even the ending with Uncle Howdy felt off because instead of feeling concerned for LA, it was more about the spectacle of somebody taking a crazy dive. Alexa-Bianca was just sort of there. Bianca came home strong and the KOD was impressive, but the match just didn't have any heat. Women's Rumble relied on a few surprise returns and NXT call-ups but like the men's was sensibly booked. I thought Zoey Stark was really impressive with her flurry and from the time she hit the ring everything looked crisp, a really nice showing for her. Again, the right acts like Damage Ctrl, Raquel Rodriguez, Piper Niven and Rhea Ripley were spotlighted. Asuka looked the best she has in years and the finish was good too. The biggest thing I noticed about Reigns-Owens is how much both guys milked every spot. It felt like they dragged out a 8 minute match with guys just trading high spot after high spot with some soap opera thrown in. It still delivered and Owens took some great bumps to really sell Reigns as the biggest threat in the company. Post-match was great too and what really separated it from other angles was having Jey Uso walk out. It's always good when you can deliver a pay-off and create intrigue at the same time. All in all, thought the show delivered as a spectacle and did it's job of setting up Wrestlemania.

It makes sense, Saraya turned herself heel in the lead up to Full Gear and Toni needed some direction. It gives the division a much needed arc as well beyond it revolving around DMD.

It's weird how in Pro Wrestling going to a different promotion or taking your ball and going home gets you more over. I can see both arguments for the Cody announcement. From my POV, as soon as he injured his pec, we were already calling for the Royal Rumble win so putting that on the table now instead of treating it as a surprise at least shows some respect to the audience. Not to mention it's a good way to build some anticipation and stakes heading into the match instead of just serving up the match and expecting fans to care. We all saw how that went last year.

I didn't have an issue when it was just Dynamite and Dark. With Dynamite it was so refreshing to have a two hour block of television and that's all you had to sit through. It was easy to make it appointment television and follow along with everything that was happening in the promotion. If it was a particularly good week of AEW, Dark was a solid show to have in the background to hype up the upcoming Dynamite and flesh out the roster. It only became an issue for me when they introduced Rampage. Not only was it a second hour of TV to keep up with, but it also watered down Dynamite because you'd have to save at least one marquee match for the show. Suddenly they were dedicating parts of Dynamite to rapid-fire angles for Rampage and the overall quality of the product diminished. On top of that, you now had two Dark shows to follow and over-time they had become really complacent with those shows. Every now and then you'd get a fun try-out or angle worth following, but it became a show where careers go to die and that's not something you want to put out there. Dark could be a great show to build some buzz and re-tool acts that are struggling to get TV time but usually it's just mindless squash matches.

That opening Jericho-Starks epitomised the issue with Jericho. Starks took everything Jericho could have possibly thrown at him, won the match and yet none the post-match rendered it meaningless. Whatever momentum Starks may have received from the win was quashed and what more can they really do to put Starks over stronger? I can't quite put my finger on the Hangman-Moxley stuff either. My read is that giving Hangman an opportunity to provide a weekly status report makes him an attention seeker and kind of an asshole. He's like the guy in the wheelchair promising an ass-beating, at first you feel sorry for him, but eventually you just want to tune him out. They should have laid this out better with one status report where Hangman buys himself some sympathy and then when he's ready you have him make a triumphant return, cut a promo issuing the challenge and then you follow through with it. Lethal is a perfectly solid all-rounder, the problem is that you could effectively use fresher talent to fulfill his role and make others look good and hardly know the difference. Because AEW is booked like 96-98 Nitro and is filled with predictible matches, Lethal somehow winds up on TV more than a lot of other talent and it just makes the show feel repetitive. Even when he gets the odd win, it's usually clear it's to do a bigger job on Rampage or Battle At The Belts. Throw Jarrett into the mix and the Satnam Singh dynamic and you can understand the fatigue. The strange thing with Lethal is that he's had this rep for over 10 years. It isn't so much that fans think he's terrible, it's just that there's better talent he's pushed over. For instance in 2011-12 he got a bad rap because Cornette was a bigger fan of his than El Generico and it was clear he was the 'safe' 'corporate' pick as TV Champion and eventual would-be challenger to Steen. Of course when Cornette left, the first thing Delirious did was bring El Generico into make it clear that Corny was gone (I'm pretty sure since then Corny confirmed this was his blessing and Generico was always an option. It was just that Generico was being wishy-washy with them since he clearly had ambitions of joining FCW/NXT and wasn't going to commit to ROH.) Then in 2015 he became Adam Cole's stand-in as champion and I think fans realised Lethal had a ceiling and he just wasn't as good as a lot of other talent on the indies. After all that hubbub Danielson-Nese was exactly what it should have been. Not surprisingly, the match was better than the promo which dragged on and on. More labours, Yo Mama jokes and kind of an iffy Iron Man match reveal. Hey if there's one guy that can pull it off it's Danielson but it feels like ages since MJF has done anything exciting in the ring. I'll give fans Punk-MJF, but for me that 40 minute Dynamite match where Punk destroyed MJF until his body quit on him and he started working like he was on qualudes was a drag. I'll stop short of recapping the entire show, but if the whole Saraya segment was a misdirection for Merdeces Mone it seems like a waste. AEW enjoyed so much success when they teased Punk & Bryan and they never did anything to make you doubt it. If Mercedes is coming just promote it like that and enjoy the ratings bump. As it stands, Saraya is making a strong claim to being the biggest heel in AEW.

Imagine after Okada beats White for the IWGP Championship, he's greeted by a video package from Danielson challenging him to Night II later in the month? The amount of humble pie in this thread would be glorious.

What Jmare said, plus Danielson has spoken of his desire to return to NJPW and how close he came for years. For him to miss out against a guy who has been portrayed as small potatos for years now is disappointing anyway you want to slice it.

No, but they would have been curious what they were getting instead. So they waited all that time to be presented with a Nese/Danielson match.

Wasn't the rumour that they were keeping Danielson from WK because of the Seattle show? So instead of getting a dream match, we're getting a match against a guy who has been booked as a jobber up to this point.

I thought it was an entertaining sneak peak. Dax is more podcast savvy and is more willing to engage with Koon and wasn't afraid to dish some dirt on name associations. I thought his most interesting answer was MJF and it was a timely reminder that the Pinnacle was a thing. Of course the big headline coming off the sneak preview was looking forward to working Cody 'real soon' but it feels like FTR back to WWE has been rumoured for awhile so teasing it further is expected. I don't think he'll name names but one thing he touched when he was asked about Punk was that there were some wrestlers who didn't want to job to Punk so they avoided him altogether. It can't have been Bobby Fish or Hangman Page since they worked together so it makes me think either it was the Bucks (Punk suggested a Punk/Danielson vs. Bucks match in a Renee Paquette interview that promptly went nowhere) or Sammy Guevara.

What's the fabled Jericho RAW match Dylan talked about on the pod?

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but it seemed like a passive aggressive send off. "Mr. Regal's gone - thank god. Look, love the guy, could listen to him talk about wristlocks all day but I'm trying to run an entertaining podcast. I never had a relationship with Mr. Regal outside of the podcast, it wasn't like me and Russo at all. Now tune in on December 29th because we've got an even better host and I can't wait to finally have a proper podcast! Y'see, Mr. Regal never understood the concept of 'yes and' so it was a struggle. Again love the guy, but thank god and tune in December 29th!' Again maybe I'm being cynical but I sensed some bitterness.

FTR's momentum was stalled by Punk shattering his foot. It was clear they were going to be pushed as the biggest force in the company with the intention of doing Punk/FTR vs. Page/Bucks but that went out the window largely due to the injury but also the bad blood developing in the locker room. FTR should have been champions coming off the ROH Anniversary show, but TK likes to have his cake and eat it too. FTR didn't need the belts, so instead of using that spotlight to magnify them, he'd rather use it to help get Swerve and Lee over. It definitely helped give Swerve and Lee some direction but there is an argument to be made that the best (aka most over) act should be the champions. No other team was more over than FTR. Fortunately TK dangling the Acclaimed carrot got the fans to bite and annoit them as 'their' team so they've gotten inexplicably over. I agree with you MoS, keep milking that cow.

Regal doesn't strike me as the type to be close minded towards certain styles. If the report is to be believed, I'd imagine he was frustrated with talent not taking every opportunity to work on their craft. I don't think it's the talent that's featured regularly on Dynamite either, but the talent that mostly works Dark, gets the odd Rampage gig and then disappears. Instead of improving their act and sharpening their skills they whinge on social media and create this angst in the fanbase and it does nothing for them or the company. I don't think there's any denying that there's some talent on the roster that could use the sessions because yeesh. Regal has spoken before how difficult it is for this talent who basically come out of wrestling school and they're expected to perform on television which is why he's constantly offering his time. Anyways, I'm sure Regal will speak on it and will likely put AEW over and will go on some long-winded bend about how you've got to hear it from him and not the rumour merchants.

Didn't the Elite already get their comeuppance when they lost to Death Triangle? I don't think this was intended to lead to anything. If Punk does decide to play ball, great, but I assume the Elite felt they had to address the elephant in the room so they mocked the incident. AEW seems to play into the whole Bret 97 psychology where you can be a babyface in NY and a heel everywhere else. In this case, the Elite accepted being heels in Chicago and even then the crowd reception was mixed. At the end of the day, I don't think they're playing for a babyface/heel contrast. The Elite are fluid at the moment, whatever way the crowd accepts them is the way they're going to go. The only consistensy is this cheesy story with the timekeeper's hammer.

The disappointing thing about the Benoit/Booker series is that neither guy really got to capitilise off the momentum from the angle. Both guys had long lay-offs and by the time they returned the company had moved on. Benoit was back to playing a support role for Flair who was experiencing a resurgence while Booker had to build his way back up to beating Scott Steiner and by that point it seemed like the moment had been lost. It didn't help that after capturing the TV title from Scotty, they had Booker put Scotty over for the US and followed that up by having him drop the TV title to Rick only to reform Harlem Heat while both him and Stevie were floundering. The rib was they tried to replicate the Best of 7 with a Best of 5 between him and Cena for the US Title in 2004 and the matches were really underwhelming.

Even if the Elite spots weren't hinting at a Punk return, it would have been odd for them not to address the elephant in the room. A damned if you do, damned if you don't situation so you may as well do something that's going to get the biggest reaction and that was certainly it. Otherwise, I agree that the Best of 7 is over-kill and un-did a lot of the good work from Full Gear. It was a case of AEW of having their cake and eating as well as far as giving the Elite a big triumphant return, but then using it to re-invigorate Death Triangle and pay-off the cheesy time-keeper hammer angle. Instead of letting that marinate and building up the anticipation of a rematch, they blew their load and wised the fans up that the Elite are going to be put over in a bigger way. I think whatever sympathy they generated out of the loss will be lost and they'll continue to alienate fans.

Which is why it should have waited until the next day. I doubt TK would have wanted there to be a confrontation and would have preferred it to be more amicable and reminded both parties what was at stake. I seriously question Megha's leadership if she thought that it was OK to confront Punk at that time with parties like Cutler and Nakazawa who didn't need to be present.