Dav'oh

Wrestling matches aren't bottles of wine. They're not meant to lie in a cellar for forty years before being opened and sipped by connoisseurs. I say this because a sentiment in this thread is that Dynamite's work "didn't age well". Currently-active wrestlers don't get that albatross/chestnut put on them. Dynamite's series with Sayama was the duck's guts (AUS), the dog's bollocks (UK), the cat's pyjamas (US), the... chrysanthemum's... stamen(?) (JPN). Both guys left their indelible mark on pro-wrestling on a global scale. I value influence and impact. A good wrestler can have a great match (Warrior can have a great match...). It takes a great wrestler to help shape the sport for decades to come.

For a variety of reasons, the first time I got to view a Young Lion's excursion contemporaneously was when EVIL went to ROH and I was pretty excited at the prospect. Then I saw him getting smoked by the ROH crew and it was clear he didn't have it/get it. I've never expected anything good of him since. Covid may have oiled the dildo, but it still took NJPW to roger themselves.

Mitsuharu Misawa. Cant't stand his body, his stoicism, always pulling up his pants (selling his pants, is the term, I think), his attire, his success over the Other Three. But fuck he's good. His connection to the audience, his endless list of great matches, execution, toughness, how he carries himself (stoicism aside). I don't need to explain Misawa's strong points to anyone here. These things? No, they're not part of a set criteria. They're what strike me as I watch him. Business success? Yes, because his qualities set him apart from lower-carders, spoke more to the audience than lower-carders, and so companies put him on top making money for everyone. I do think business success - in pro-wrestling, at least - is an inevitable corollary of "greatness". It is not the exclusive domain of greatness, no. Crowd-reactions? That's all a pro-wrestler has. Seriously. Reputation might lead me to someone, but counts for naught once I've seen them. I enjoy watching Misawa's matches, a) because he's not wrestling against himself, there's a quality opponent (or two) (or three) and a usually rivetting storyline involved; and b) I'm still watching a master of his craft, crappy tights or no. I can absolutely respect Mitsuharu Misawa, without liking him.

Interesting. I think there absolutely will be wrestlers I can't stand on my list, because to not acknowledge their greatness would be churlish of me. I watch some people and just can't deny their talents.

There's a difference between "political views", which implies an informed, involved person making educated decisions, and being a flag-waver for.... all of that. Backstage producer, not a backstage producer, affects their work, doesn't affect their work - the cunt should be thrown in a pit. That's probably the point he was making.

As a society, semantics are all we've got. If we don't agree on the meanings of words, we can't communicate properly, and it's global Anarchy in the Arena. Say "Hello" to Eugene Schnitzel. Eugene has been the star of Baltic Extreme Thug-Life Pro-Wrestling Yeah! for over twenty-five years. He once technically sold-out Legia Warsaw's home ground (only three hundred tickets were on sale, and it was held in the car-park, but it counts!) Eugene can work as face or heel. He's very good in both singles and tags. He impressed as a fiery Young Elk, and as the grumpy old vodka tragic with delirium tremens. Although he specialises in First Scrotum-Blood Matches and the like, he is very much at home trading holds (see his matches with Brad Wurst, links below). He has successfully played a couple of (slightly) different characters and his mic work is the best this side of Vilnius. He is a great, great, great wrestler. Does this mean he is in the Pantheon of the Greats? He was never invited to 16 Carat Gold in Germany, not even 6,000,000 Roentgen Gold in Kyiv. His audience were the Extreme Thug-Life Choir, as it were. He said he didn't travel because he didn't trust promoters (he was only ten when Bruiser Brody died). But enough Schnitzel. Does someone who is great at pro-wrestling, become by default a great of pro-wrestling? Or do you think it takes something more? Do you have to be one of the greats to be eligible for the Greatest Wrestler Ever? The list of nominees here is at times - how do I put this politely? - fucking risible. You can bang your Eugene Schnitzels up your clacker, as far as I'm concerned.

I do (I really do) intend to make this point in greater detail elsewhere, but wouldn't that qualify those bands as 100 Favourite Bands Ever, or 100 Best Bands ever, rather than 100 GREATEST Bands ever?

Because the greats leave their mark on the world (population: 8 billion), not just Reseda (population: LOL).

Some time ago, Australia stole a band from NZ and they had hits in the UK and Canada, the US etc so you may have heard of them.This poster for their upcoming tour for some reason features Andre, who for some reason has meth tatts.

Where's the escapism in 2025 WWE? Wrestling's meant to be taken lightly. Ugandan Giants, Missing Links, Dragons, Snakes, Nature Boys, Giants, Bastions of Booger. Hard to take child-molesters and cunts lightly. And I hold every single person employed by WWE culpable. No-one gets a pass.

This thread is more depressing than a thousand Benoit obits.

Sorry to be literal, but they'll be seen in three-minute clips, given the alarming drop in attention-spans. Their theme song, them posing, a couple of big moves and a raised arm, all set to some shit music. Why watch Flair-Windham 90 minute draws when a Tik-Tok clip can tell me everything important about the Nature Boy? (Hardcore fans excepted.) Live crowds will be conditioned enough to pop for legends' returns, so their egos should be fine.

If we take the Empire to be the Sudetenland or Poland, then yes, the Empire has been overrun by the facists and Nazis.

I'd rather an eight-man tournament. It's their biggest gimmick tour, it should only have the best wrestlers, and everyone should be a (somewhat) realistic shot at winning the whole shebang. Stuff like YOSHI-HASHI vs Ren Narita is utterly superfluous.

Are you conflating the existence of weight-division titles, with the popularity of said weight-divisions? Promoters like nothing more than adding more titles, to this very day.

Those countries didn't have a wealth of people the size of Watts, Hogan, Ladd, Kowalski, Taylor, Vader, Studd, Mulligan, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on. It's the Land of the Giants. Everything's bigger in America, especially Texas. We might be underestimating how pervasive "Supersize me" is. You can only work with what you've got. If those countries had an abundance of super-heavyweight super-workers, we would've seen 'em.

Well, if promoters could have made money off of lighter-weight wrestlers, they would have. I don't mean to be dismissive or flippant. I think it's really that simple. I also don't think it's necessarily "America fuck yeah". Wrestling is a circus, a zoo, a freak show - universal attractions. We don't go to the zoo to see the Etruscan shrew, we go to see the giraffe. The flea-trainer is great and all, but the lion-tamer is where the money is. John Merrick wouldn't have drawn a dime if he had a bung eye and a cleft palate. Lighter-weight wrestlers are "normal". No-one's paying for normal in the exaggerated world of pro-wrestling.

Some of you quite rightly have a problem with Terry Jean Bollea, sexagenarian racist. So do I. And Terry Jean Bollea, scab of a mythical, fantastical, beautiful wrestler's union (rainbows and unicorns sold separately). But I'm here to mourn the passing of Hulk Hogan, larger-than-life cartoon superhero who positively impacted all of our lives, like it or not. I'm not asking anyone to observe a day of steroid abuse and bigotry in his honour. I am hoping his embalmer or funeral director buries him with one shoulder raised; I don't think a clean job to the Grim Reaper would work for him, brother. Something someting artist from the art.

No, they can't, brother Dav'oh. No they can't. He got those reactions in life, though. When it mattered. It's just churlish, repetitive, and pointless now. We already know, though. They feel exactly the same as they did when he was alive. He dead, bro. Too late. Deep. If people can't take five seconds out of their urgent vitriol to acknowledge the good, they're being dishonest with themselves. You all know full fucking well what he did for this thing we love, and not one word of gratitude. Go yeet a giant mousetrap.

People have had forty years to piss on him and used every second of it. They'll have the rest of their lives to keep urinating on him. So, could they take a break for a day or two? We all know everything, there's enough posts here if anyone wants to read the pissing, there's nothing new to piss.

When I was young and innocent, I thought Hogan was pure and innocent. When I got old and guilty, I thought Hogan was old and guilty. I'll remember the former at moments like this. RIP Hulkster.

No-one here has made any sort of argument for him as a great, let alone the greatest.

I reckon Sami (whom I love) has regressed as a worker doing WWE formula matches; certainly, he's no El Generico. Not that I blame him. Claudio in 2015 is exactly the same as Claudio in 2025, to mine eyes. Less bangers (god I hate that term), maybe. I wont be going anywhere near them, but then I'll be avoiding most currently-active wrestlers.

Tony's vocabulary does not include "Because fuck you, that's why". He's a fan first, owner/booker second. Even he would want to see Hangman win. I'm sure he'll send himself home happy.

I liked him better when people weren't hyperbolizing him as the Greatest Wrestler Ever. There I was, just enjoying and appreciating him as a very good, highly entertaining and engaging wrestler, then people started telling me he's better than Terry Funk and Andre the Giant and Toshiaki Kawada and Jushin Liger, which made me look for it and I didn't see it, now everytime I watch him I just think "nice try, but nah."