Frankensteiner

Man, I don't know. That seems like massive hyperbole and exaggeration to me. He referenced them in litterally one promo on his comeback. Hardly "fucking with a promotion" based on that instance, especially when the TV show he was involved with was consistently better than the flagship show.

Was he actively fucking with a promotion? Just from an on-screen standpoint, he was part of the creative direction for a show that many people really enjoyed. I thought Collision was much more interesting than Dynamite.

As a fan, it's just a really sad ending. Collision was such a great weekly wrestling show, the first time in almost 20 years I felt compelled to watch a wrestling show every week. Unfortunately, most of that was due to Punk as he was the only one that could still draw my interest to the modern product. I find the Elite pretty much unwatchable and the antithesis of what I look for in my wrestling. I also think it's strange that so many fans have gotten so worked up over Punk's backstage issues, as if they were his co-workers or had direct interaction with him personally.

You'd probably have to add Lanny and Owen too. Is there any Warren Bockwinkel footage? Going by rep, Nick would probably be a contender for that list too.

It pushed the stock to a 4 year high.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was a purposeful leak by the company to protect the value of the stock. There were fears that news of Vince coming back would tank the stock but the news of an imminent sale seems to be mitigating against that.

Interesting in that we are polar opposites. Watching the last few months with Punk out has been a slog. Only the JAS/Eddie feud was interesting, and that was mostly due to Jericho's character work. I have very little interest in seeing Moxley as champion or any of the other potential headliners (Omega, Cole, Page). The six man to end the show last night is just not my thing so Punk's throwback babyface style is a nice way to moderate against some of the flaws of the rest of the roster. Hope they still get to the Punk/FTR partnership they were teasing at the start of summer.

Regarding Bock finishing lower, I don't think it's anything negative towards him. More to do with my viewing preferences for other wrestling/wrestlers who I've watched since 2016 and the likely recency bias boost they'll get relative to Bock. Even with that said, at worst Bock would still stay in the top 15 and maybe top 10 so it's not much of a drop at all.

Another tough one for me. I had Bock #2 and Fujinami #5 in 2016. My initial instinct is to say Bock won't finish this high again for me (although still lock for top 20), but on the other hand when I compare him to Fujinami (who I think should stay right around the same spot), I don't know that I can say Fujinami is better.

Not sure what's odd about that. It's just a way of saying Fujinami was better early and Bret was better late. And although I didn't make this point earlier, I personally put more emphasis on their mid-to-late 30's work as that was when both guys were on top. I also don't consider Fujinami's junior work as part of his peak. He was definitely already a good worker but also a little bland at times. I think he really hit his peak in '83.

Not sure I buy the peak argument in Fujinami’s favor. I see Fuji’s advantage as being more of a longevity candidate. You can say he peaked earlier and therefore was a great worker longer than Bret. On the other hand, I think Bret’s output after age 36 (post-1993) is better than what Fujinami did at the same age (post 1989). The other thing is that when thinking about these two, there really are a number of comparable matchups: Fujinami/Inoki VS Bret/Backlund Fujinami/Maeda VS Bret/Perfect Fujinami/Hase VS Bret/Owen Fujinami/Choshu VS Bret/Austin Fujinami/Hashimoto VS Bret/Diesel Fujinami/Kimura VS Bret/Bulldog Fujinami/Liger VS Bret/Kid Fujinami/Muto VS Bret/Shawn Fujinami/Vader VS Bret/Yokozuna Fujinami/Bigelow VS Bret/Bigelow Fujinami/Lawler VS Bret/Lawler (this is admitedly not a great comparsion since the psychology of the matchups was different) Fujinami/Flair VS Bret/Flair Fujinami/Fujiwara VS Bret/Piper These are pretty close to me, although I would lean Bret in terms of peak output.

I started this poll last year before the GWE discussion was renewed. So wanted to re-post in the 'vs' folder to see current opinions.

80s had better crowds and setting, more volume due to house shows being taped (although 90s handhelds still have a few gems), and a deeper talent roster. However, 90s peaked higher both in terms of output and style so I chose 90s. Not unlike what others have said so far. Sure but you can keep going with 90s feuds too: Bret/Bulldog, Bret/Flair, Shawn/Razor, Bret/Diesel, Shawn/Mankind, Bret/Backlund, Bret/Shawn, Bret/Yoko, Bret/Lawler, Shawn/Diesel, etc.

Wanted to bump this topic to see how people consume their wrestling today. Personally, due to time constraints, I almost always skip around and watch individual matches. Although I've noticed I usually tend to focus on one or two wrestlers in one sitting and watch at least a few matches from each wrestler.

So as someone tuning into AEW for the first time (and not watching WWE for about 6 years), I'm afraid modern wrestling may not be for me. There was no pre-text of competition in that pre-show opener. It was all laughs and cute highspots. To the regular viewers, was that atypical of the style?

Official El Hijo del Santo channel posted a nicer copy of the Santo/Espanto Jr. mask match than the one that has been available for years.

Didn't he debut the previous SNME? I know he had a short match with Tito for the IC Title. Did that get edited out of the Peacock version?

I don't think there's anything wrong with working on instincts but the point with Flair is that he often did his spots without much rhyme or reason or simply with the intent to pop the crowd (one that comes to mind and just killed me was him going to the top with 1 min to go while trying to run out the clock against Windham in the TV draw). Yes, Bret had his stock spots too but he never utilized them in a way where they weren't a logical part of the match.

Bret by a country mile. I don't even think Flair has more volume than Bret. He does have some classics but also the distinction of having the most matches on tape that I would never want to watch again. I don't necessarily hold his touring matches against him (even if they are incredibly rote), but so much of his Crockett run doesn't hold up either. Matches against Dusty, Nikita, Windham, Garvin, Luger, Sting where he's just bumping around and stooging like a rich man's Honkytonk Man. I forget who here made the comparison, but Flair is not too far off from an 80s version of Kurt Angle. He really could have used an editor to cut down his matches or insert some plot points beyond "NWA Title Match". That's all fine and good but it doesn't apply to Bret. His matches never lost the feeling of competition or struggle. Randy Savage was the same way. If anything, Flair's matches usually have one or two spots where you can see he's clearly calling spots, or having awkward miscommunication with the other wrestler, that takes you out of the action.

Not saying I'd necessarily rank it as top 100 of that time period or anything, but I believe you might have referred to it as not good or even terrible during the show (forget the exact wording used). So there's a lot of room in-between those two goal posts. I just think the match is at least good and worth watching.

Enjoying the shows and reviews so far! But I think you guys are missing the boat on the Bret/Undertaker match from the ’96 Rumble. That just seems like one of those outdated WON/Scott Keith opinions that’s always been passed on and never challenged. It’s a good match in the same vein as Bret’s other matches with Diesel, with Bret working as resourceful face/subtle heel against a monster babyface. Bret/UT had a match at MSG right after Bret won the title from Diesel. Someone here reviewed the handheld of that match in the Bret GWE thread. I think that was a good match but the PPV was even better. Bruce Prichard also recently praised it on his podcast too.

Since you were asking, the other new Houston matches are: vs. Murdoch - after DiBiase's face turn. Had this match previously but not complete. w/ Dr. Death vs. Murdoch & Masked Superstar - 3/14/86 vs. Terry Gordy (UWF Title Tournament) - 5/30/86 vs. Terry Gordy (Cage) / vs. Michael Hayes (Cage, Country Whipping Match) - 10/17/86. The Gordy match was available previously but not complete. vs. Michael Hayes (Glove On A Pole) - 1/23/87

I don't know about that. All of his newly released Houston matches were excellent and had me excited for more until the plug was pulled on that footage.

I saw a recent Q&A where he mentioned Mysterio as being better than himself too.

The Bret/Backlund match got uploaded to youtube a couple of weeks ago (along with the rest of the show).