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Well that sounds mighty disappointing. The little I've seen of Jones in UWF was what piqued my interest in him in New Japan. The Super Tiger match could have been so great, and you see flashes of how well he could have meshed with the UWF guys but it appears from the footage that showcasing Jones wasn't what he was there for.

Been on a Destroyer kick the past few weeks, and - from what I’ve seen - the guy is a top 20 contender. He’s great technically, charismatic, and quite the lovable rouge. He's versatile as well. He works his shithouse antics in brilliantly in his 63 match with Rikidozan and Baba in 69. He works a very compelling straight competitive style with Mil Mascaras in 73 and 74 and Hiro Matsuda in 75. He plays off his heel antics schtick to great effect against The Spirit in 75. And he has some good brawls with Abby in 74 and 75.

Love Inoki. I love the way he moves about, he has such physical charisma and star power. The idea that he’s the greatest fighter of his generation is ridiculous. Inoki is ridiculous. But he plays it such conviction that I can go with it. A common criticism reading this thread is that he spends a long time lying about doing nothing, but I can buy into the idea that he’s thinking, strategising how to take down his opponent. It does lead to some dull matches but when it works gives matches an unpredictable sporting feel. He’s a very unique character, the likes of which we may never see again.

Volk will rank pretty highly for me I suspect. It’s a given that he’s technically very impressive, and he’s also a very underrated seller. From his facials and body language you always know how the match is going for him, even when it’s unclear from the actual action. He’s a wrestler who has a great understanding of why his stuff works with the crowd, and is a master of how to integrate it with basically anyone. The upshot is that matches aren’t always good, but his performances are. While stylistically they’re far apart, in this way he puts me in mind of someone like Jim Breaks or Jushin Liger.

Watching some 90s Bull recently and one aspect that stands out to me is her great selling. She’s one of those wrestlers who’s fine until she isn’t. She starts off as this imposing monster brushing off attacks and then by mid-match her hair is all over the place, her make-up is smudged and she has this pained, dejected look on her face, like she can’t believe she’s having to go through all this. It gives her this air of vulnerability and sympathy whilst remaining a total badass.

This thread has been a really interesting read. In terms of my own process, the first thing is to recognise is that for me at least this is an impossible task in that there’s so much footage of so many people, and not enough time. There are areas that I’ll likely not get to at all, partly due to time, partly due to the product not appealing to me. And that’s fine. I’ve come to this from the GME project, which has really rekindled my interest in wrestling after it being on the wane for a few years. The starting point is finding people whose matches I enjoy watching. There are people I’ve wanted to check out properly for 20 years and never quite found the time. There’s stuff I haven’t seen for 20 years. All of it needs watching. There’s plenty to get through, I tend to watch lots from a 2-3 wrestlers for a few weeks then move on when I get bored. Having a greatest hits or primer on wrestlers I’m less familiar with has been a realistic way to delve into the careers of a lot of these wrestlers. It doesn’t give a full picture but it is an achievable way of getting a taste of a wide range of people. From there I’ve gone down rabbit holes for the people I’ve enjoyed the most to get a fuller picture of wrestlers I really enjoy. I’m basically only really looking at when they were good. It’s interesting to see more, but for this project there’s no way I could do that with everyone I want to watch. In terms of a criteria, I know greatness when I see it. It’s a subjective thing for me and it varies from performer to performer. I expect this to lead to plenty of inconsistency, but will ultimately give me a better understanding of what I mean when I say great. A bit of a tangent but I’m also trying to better understand the performers within the context of the promotion and the wider culture. I think this is something we can take for granted in culture and promotions that we’re familiar with, and make assumptions about with ones we aren’t. For example I understand Randy Savage’s role in late 80s - early 90s WWF very clearly. I was there, I lived it and understand his character, his role in the promotion, the WWF house style and at least in part the culture at the time (I’m British). Likewise I have a reasonably good handle on the context for say 90s Sabu, 00-10s Hiroshi Tanahashi and 70s-80s Jim Breaks, and it helps me to better appreciate them. I can’t really say the same for the likes of Jackie Sato, Jerry Lawler or Negro Casas. Not yet anyway.

Punk's a guy I've always rooted for, but has mostly underwhelmed in the ring. As a face or heel, he can always talk me into getting hyped up for his matches. He's a master at building a match so it feels meaningful and important. I'm paraphrasing but I remember Mick Foley saying the key to a feud is that you need to be able to believe both guys genuinely think they're in the right, and Punk is perhaps the best in the world at this. But I mostly come away disappointed by the match itself.

Echoing a lot of what's been said already, from watching a lot of Santo recently and the way the crowds react to him, he has this aura of a folk hero come to life. His mask and it's legacy, his precision, his bleeding and brawling and honestly the fact that he always wins out in the end. It's like watching Robin Hood or Beowulf wrestle. He knows exactly what he is and how to portray that.

Just checked out his 87 match v Mister Argentina and his 88 cage match with Michel Serdan. This guy rules. Any other recommendations?

Interesting. My understanding is that Tibor was past his peak by the mid 60s. He certainly looks spry in that footage with Prince Philip. Who was the 60s match against? I thought McManus was a lot more physical in the Pallo match than in his 70s stuff where he relied more on character. Though I wonder how typical that performance was given how big a match it was.

Mick McManus and Tibor Szakacs come to mind. There's a fair bit of 70s footage but from all accounts they're past their prime. Based on the 1 match and 1 minute of prime 60s footage available, they're two I'd love to see more of. Also, Karl Gotch.

I find Jones to be a great stoic counterpoint to the likes of Finlay and Rocco. He still has character - a hard quiet man who's nobody's fool - and he seems to have a strong emotional connection with the crowds. Aside from Jim Breaks I think he's the guy who has the most really great WoS matches. In addition to the matches already mentioned in the thread, I'd recommend: vs Rocco (13/09/78) w. Myers v Skull Murphy & Finlay (not sure of the date, it's the rematch from their 83 FA Cup match) Steve Logan (10/02/79) Is there anything out there of Jones in New Japan?

Outside of his UWF matches with Fujiwara, my favourite stuff of Sayama's are the competitive squashes. Him befuddling Sid Cooper on WoS, or Jose Estrada in WWF with his crazy offence is great stuff.

It's available to buy a watermarked copy directly from ITV for 75 pounds. The process is quite lengthy and as others have mentioned and you have to sign a document promising to only use it for personal use, not to distribute it etc. Let me know if you want details.

When Hokuto dodges Ozaki, she shouts something like “Time to stop messing about”. It loses something in translation, but when she bites Ozaki, Ozaki is shouting that it hurts, Hokuto replies “I’m biting you even though your feet are dirty, you idiot”. Great match here. The premise was interesting. It seemed to be that Hokuto was trying to psyche out Ozaki by no-selling her offence, blowing her off verbally and later with the squats. Ozaki is like, you want to play that game? Fine. Post match was good. Hokuto can be really cutting in these promos. She tells the interviewer that Ozaki doesn’t have a pure heart and is more of a dangerous queen. She’s much better than Rumi Kazama. However she needs to improve her talking, and she’ll never get anywhere staying in a promotion like JWP.

Saw his 62 match with Pallo recently and it really was something. Really enjoyed McManus' performance, basically a quicker, more physically versatile version of his 70s self. I was taken by how different it was in terms of my expectations going in. Was certainly not expecting the level of aggression, McManus to break out a tombstone and Pallo to do the Buddy Rogers/Foley hanged by the ring ropes spot. I enjoyed it immensely but am lacking points of comparison stylistically having seen nothing else from WoS from the 60s, let alone McManus. No posts in this thread doesn't bode well, but it's worth asking - is there any more 60 McManus footage that is reasonably accessible?

Big fan of Ozaki so OZ vs GAEA sounds promising. The you hit me I hit you premise is interesting - the 93 Chigusa v Ozaki was similar to that in the sense that the story was was whatever Ozaki dishes out, Chigusa will dish back. GAEAISM it is.

Jim Breaks is a God-tier shithouse. Tying his laces to break the other guy's momentum, talking smack, breaking just slightly late, getting one in after the bell, whining to the ref at the slightest infraction; he's the Sergio Ramos of wrestling.

Clunky yes, but I thought the pair had chemistry. The matches had such emotion. That sense it could all go off at any minute. Particularly the tag with Iizuka & Murakami and the last singles match. I'd put a lot of this on Hash in the way he held himself, and his style could fit in well with guys like this.

I'm interested in why you dislike the Hash/Ogawa feud. From a booking standpoint the way it finished is to me emblematic of everything wrong with 00s New Japan. The matches themselves though, those were some of Hashimoto's best performances.

That context is very useful, thanks both. The differing opinions of her in GAEA are interesting. What matches would you recommend - half a dozen or so - as an overview of GAEA Chigusa?

Thanks for the match recommendations all. Mid 80s Chigusa is amongst the best babyfaces I’ve ever seen. Such a great blend of vulnerability and kick-ass. That glassy eyed stagger about sell she does in the Dump matches, oh my god. Her connection to her fans - living and dying on her every move - is incredible and make for an amazing atmosphere. Her arc from this era, her setbacks and eventual climb to the top is incredible. l As far as a project like this, she sets an incredibly high bar, and when I put together a list there’s no doubt she’ll rank very highly. The post retirement bit of her career I find tricky. My first exposure to joshi was the big 90s shows, the Dream Slams and what have you. WIthout the 80s context she never stood out as an obvious star. One look at Bull and you know she’s a star, you see how Kandori carries herself and you know she’s a star. I never got that from Chigusa back then. Delving into 80s AJW over the past year or so, I understand why she’d be a big deal in the 90s. To me though star power seems rooted in what she was in the 80s rather than what she brought in the 90s. A special living legend type, equivalent to say 90s Tatsumi Fujinami. I like some of her matches - the singles matches with Ozaki and Bull, the GAEA debut show, some rookie squashes. But still she offers a lot less than the top tier 90s contemporaries or her 80s high point.

Fascinating thread to read through. For me Savage was one of my favourites as a WWF watching kid, and unlike many (sorry Papa Shango) he still resonates with me today. This is mostly due to the brilliant stuff with Liz that encompasses most of his WWF run, whether he’s the hot-tempered rising star, the envious deluded champ or the redeemed living legend. It keeps even the most cartoonish stuff grounded in some kind of relatable reality. The key is that he’s a guy who is amongst the best at projecting this awesome character and emotions in-ring. The matches were compelling because you could believe in Savage and thus told a great story.

She's is a definite top 10 contender for me. Her best is the best. She's such a compelling wrestler to watch during that period. Also she's a GREAT smack-talker. Was watching her vs Ozaki from November 93 the other day, and Hokuto getting on the mic mid-match telling Oz her moves didn't hurt, it really added to the match.