goodhelmet

Since losing the title, and since he was able to get a decent match out of him, Mania might not be a bad place to allow Ryback to get his revenge on Punk and set up a #1 contender match for the following PPV.

I know rvd356 was called a troll but I am not ready to automatically brand him so argue and deconstruct his points. I am also going to agree with NintendoLogic, Jerry and Dylan in one sentence and I thought that would be near impossible.

As a sociology thesis, wrestling has value as a study. As a historical thesis, probably not. Also, the first national promotion was probably Georgia Championship Wrestling solely through Ted Turner's tv station that we picked up in central Illinois in 1980.

Yep, discovered this the other day when I was looking for a Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Gilbert match.

He isn't downgraded for being a prick and fucking over people. Lots of guys pimped in this thread were pricks who fucked over people, and it's not held against them. He's downgraded because people feel his great 90's run wasn't as great as some people claim, and that his post-comeback run was downright bad for the most part. So what are we counting as that "90's" run? Barbershop window through Wrestlemania 14(HBK Era)? I guess what could be held against him is the showboating Lucha style or "drama" or whatever. But even if you hate the "Sexy Boy 90's" character, you got to appriciate his top matches from that Era like the 2 ladder bouts with Scott Hall, Jarrett IYH 2, IYH Diesel street fight, IYH v. Foley, KOTR with Bulldog & the British ppv with Bulldog(love this match, Shawn was such a bastard heel. Just always loved Shawn/Davey's chemistry. Power v. Speed) And I would think the consensus on here would be that his 2nd run was better. Seeing as how he wrestled more grounded, smarter matches. Of course you have the 2 Taker matches & the 2 Angle ppv matches, which liked a lot but I can see the flip side of those. But how bout the Orton S-Series match in '07? Best Orton match ever IMO. Plus the Cena Mania bout is the best of Cena's career outside the Punk MITB '11 match IMO. Sure the 2nd run Dx stuff was God-awful, but when it was just veteran Shawn out there it was usually good. Let me first say welcome to the board. Next, I don't think you know this board very well.

Yes, Yes and Yes

I have a Flair thread for you to talk about this stuff.

Looking at Flair's huge feuds from a match perspective... Had great matches with Kerry in Texas, Mid South and All Japan. I don't know if Flair was Kerry's best opponent but he is in the conversation along with Lawler and the Freebirds. I thought his 1986 would stand out more but it looks like the Morton and Dusty feuds stood alone for available footage . Flair is easily the best singles opponent for Morton. For Dusty, really hit or miss feud. He had some dogshit Dusty matches and some good ones. Also, Tully may be Dusty's best opponent. From 1985-1987, the Garvin matches that were televised were all good-great. I could see Flair as Garvin's best opponent but the Valentine fans may have something to say about that. I think the best singles Windham matches were the Flair matches. From Florida and Crockett, Flair and Windham were like thunder and lightning. They were just meant to go together. Maybe some people like the Windham-Murdoch pairing more. Persnally, I think the Murdoch matches are great but the Flair matches are classics. I am not a fan of the Flair-Sting matchups. I pushed the Clash I match through on reputation, not on actual merit. I prefer Flair-Luger and I don't even think it is close. We know Stng had better matches with Vader than Flair. I want to examine Luger's other opponents closely before I assert that Flair was Luger's best opponent. I will continue this later but this is a start.

I didn't write much when I reviewed the commercial tape... Ric Flair vs. Jimmy Garvin (steel cage match) (7/11/87) - As much as I love the Ron Garvin cage matches, I don't like this one. I'll include the date with Precious as an extra but I won't be nominating this match.

I never said that. I conceded the category to Lawler, but said it should also be noted how important Flair was to Mid Atlantic, and used that as an opportunity to have Dylan talk about the territory switching from a focus on tag teams to singles stars, with Flair being one of the key guys, and the biggest star of them all over time. Fair enough!

I think it is a feather in Lawler's cap when we discussed this on the podcast. Besides Buddy Rose in Portland, who has been more important to a territory than Lawler? I know Loss said Flair was just as important to Mid Atlantic but I think of those NWA cities as a cluster (Greensboro, Charlotte, Richmond, etc.) and Dylan listed other guys he thought were just as well received in the promotion based on conversations he had. For touring champ, what it does show is how awesome Flair could be all over the country/world. I think it would be harder physically to be touring champ but I think it is harder as a promoter to have to sell tickets to the same building week after week.

I think it helped that there were no major sports teams but I don't think it is the only reason. When Dallas was hot, they had 3 major sports teams. MSG sold out month after month in the 70s and early 80s and they were the sports capital of the world. I think the overall strong booking and Lawler's love affair with Memphis helped sustain it.

Matches nominated for the Crockett Set from 1988-89 1988 Ric Flair vs. Sting (Clash 3/27/88) Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Sting, Lex Luger & Barry Windham (Main Event 4/3/88) Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Barry Windham vs. Dr. Death, Lex Luger & Nikita Koloff (Houston 6/10/88) Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs. Midnight Express (Clash 12/7/88) Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (Starrcade 12/26/88) 1989 Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Chicago 2/20/89) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Landover 3/18/89) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Philly 3/18/89) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Clash 4/2/89) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlewar 5/7/89) Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (GAB 7/23/89) Ric Flair & Sting vs. Dick Slater & Great Muta (Clash 9/12/89) Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (I Quit) (Clash 11/15/89)

I may or may not move the 1983 Flair discussion to this thread but I wanted to list matches from 1985-87 that have been nominated for the CROCKETT set. 1985 Ric Flair vs. Sam Houston (5/18/85) Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes (Starrcade 11/28/85) Ric Flair vs. Ron Garvin (12/28/85) 1986 Ric Flair vs. Ron Garvin (2/2/86) Ric Flair vs.Ricky Morton (Cage Match) (7/5/86) Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes (Cage Match) (7/26/86) Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes (Pro 8/23/86) 1987 Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham (1/20/87) Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham (Crockett Cup 4/11/87) Ric Flair & Lex Luger vs. Ron & Jimmy Garvin (TV 6/27/87) Ric Flair vs. Ron Garvin (Cage Match) (9/25/87) Ric Flair vs. Ron Garvin (Cage Match) (Starrcade 11/26/87) Need Date:Ric Flair & Lex Luger vs. Rock N Roll Express - Superbouts

I think that Loss made the point on the Podcast that a guy like Flair made you care about Flair. Lawler made you care about the feud, his opponent and what he was going to do to his opponent. You wanted to see the payoff and usually there was a payoff to a feud. In some rare cases, there may not be a payoff in the traditional sense but the end of one feud occurred when Lawler started another feud.

For post 96 WCW, we have to hope for some B side to pop up from Phil and Eric. For WWF, I don't recall anything that stood out as good.

Not talking about Boss Man. I want to hear SLLs thoughts on Boss Man. I want you to write some stuff detailing the way Boss Man's right thumb was always in the right spot when holding the nightstick. I want to mark out for Ray Traylor punching a dude in the face.

The difference is that Jerry's first post was in Stage 1... The instinct reaction.

On the surface, I see where Jerry is coming from. It's like saying Jerry Lawler belongs in the GOAT discussion. Most Flair, Jumbo, HBK fans would instinctively say "WTF". When Matt D says Demolition is a good team, I instinctively go "WTF". For Jerry, when someone said Boss was better than Mr. money, he went "WTF" but had to do it in that long winded style of Jerry's. I can forgive him for that.

I will try to fit all of the interviews and angles I can find. The set may be equal part matches / interviews and angles.

OK, I am only going to rate matches I have seen and can clearly remember. I still need to watch some stuff from the AWA set and the yearbooks. When I make the final set, I may go mad and review the entire thing just because I can watch 100 hours of Lawler and never go wrong. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) (6/6/83) Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) (12/30/85) Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantel vs. Bill Dundee & Buddy Landel (3/10/86) Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantel (3/22/82) Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantel (3/29/82) Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (3/23/81) Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) (7/24/86) Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Rich (5/25/87) Jerry Lawler & Jeff Jarrett vs. The Moondogs (1/25/92) Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (Loser Leaves Town (6/3/85) Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (11/8/82) Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (4/27/87) Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude (9/17/84) Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Rich (10/2/88) Jerry Lawler vs. Eric Embry (Cage Match) (9/8/89) Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (Cage Match) (11/25/88) Jerry Lawler vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death Match) (9/8/86) Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude (9/10/84) Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (9/17/88) Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (5/9/88) Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantel (3/27/82)

When working on the Death of WCW I found no great Jeff Jarrett matches in the Russo era or later. There were some decent matches like the Booker T title change but nothing great. The guitar gimmick is a killer and the bad booking puts it over the top. What a lame heel.

28. Dick Murdoch vs. Nikita Koloff (1/16/88) This is the match i recommended Jerry. Watch it.

This is the part where we mention Buddy Rose who is almost universally loathed as a human being by those who knew him but loved as a wrestler by people in this thread.