elliott

Yeah the 12/30/85 match the one with the eye. Its definitely an all selling sort of performance. I think Lawler was actually a pretty underrated offensive wrestler, but I see beauty in the Lawler 2nd and top rope fist drop.

I wonder if the Savage matches are a little too stall-y for newer fans just getting acquainted with Lawler? Although there is the advantage of an opponent everyone is familiar with in Savage. I would do: Lawler vs Terry Funk No DQ 03/23/81 Lawler vs Dutch Mantell No DQ 03/22/82 Lawler vs King Kong Bundy $10,000 Challenge 7/16/84 Lawler vs Bill Dundee Loser Leaves Town 12/30/85 Lawler & Mantell vs Dundee & Landell 03/10/86 Lawler & Bigelow vs RIch & Idol Texas Death Match 03/23/87 Others to Consider: Lawler vs Blackwell 5/4/81 Lawler vs Bockwinkel (Trilogy) Lawler & Savage vs Bundy & Rude (either one, can't remember which I prefer) 7/84 Lawler vs Bam Bam Bigelow Texas Death Match 09/07/86 Maybe the Kerry match if you think your buds can brave the commentary. Maybe a Snowman match? Or just watch the entire buildup episode for the 6/83 LLT match with Dundee and then watch that match and call it a day (I wouldn't watch this one out of context though, I think the build really takes it to the next level). However, I think the 12/30/85 LLT against Dundee is Lawler's best performance and the most obvious example for Lawler being an unbelievably great wrestler.

Steve Corino will always be the first guy to come to mind for this topic. I actually think he works going in both directions. He could have been a major star in the 80s and 90s. Same thing if he was coming up now.

Wow what timing. Since Micro updated his list (and it is fucking awesome) I figured I'd share this message I sent Stacey & MattD last night about sort of this very thing! So this is obviously a major work in progress. I mean, at the very least the trio of Flair/Steamboat & duo of Flair/Funk matches all deserve to be on there. Flair vs Windham, Garvin, Morton & Luger all have real shots.I'm watching WOS finally but not ready to rate it in this sort of context. 90s All Japan I don't know what to do with. I'll rank it when I watch it again for GWE 2026 Looking into the future, there are a bunch of lucha and shoot style matches that will be making their way on here so it'll be radically different next time you see it. But I love 80s wrestling the most so if you held a gun to my head and made me do a top 100, I'd be fine with it.

Dave Meltzer: Kind of an idiot.

The Brazos vs Infernales match came to mind first for me as well when I initially thought about it. There are more than a few of those AAA Rey Jr, Santo, Fuerza & Friends trios that I want to rewatch though. I gotta watch the 97 minis match though. I'm not sure if I've ever seen it. How do you feel about the Space Cadets vs La Ola Lila from the 80s set? That was the highest ranked trios match.

Everyone really needs to watch that Trish vs Mickie match. It is awesome. I'm not sure if we can top this in terms of more different matches to talk about but we'll find a way. And thanks for listening!

Lucha fans, whats the best trios match ever?

Chicana vs MS-1 is my pick. And I've honestly always preferred the 12/85 LLT match to the 6/83 one myself. Last time I watched them both (within the last 3 months) I thought 6/83 was a classic match but I thought 12/85 is a match that could challenge Chicana vs MS-1 for #1 ever. The story with Lawler's taped up eye, Dundee's focus on it and especially Lawler's selling is everything I could ever want. 12/85 would be the match I would use to show Lawler's genius. Johnny, I'm surprised you're not beating us all over the head with Magnum vs Tully

Re-reading this thread I feel like if we did a Greatest Matches Ever project 6/9/95 would run away with the top spot like Flair in GWE.

This is held back by some structural/pacing issues, otherwise it would have had a good shot at dethroning 6/9/1995 for me. Still all time Top 10 level though. What are the structural/pacing issues with Queendom? It's not as compact as it could have been. There is some meandering around in the middle, some of the submissions run too long. They could have tightened the whole thing up a bit and cut around 2-3 minutes from the overall time. It's not really a big deal for a long match like that but it plays a factor when comparing it with the best of the best. Still, that would be the first match I would show someone if I wanted to emphasize the storytelling power of pro wrestling. Also the exchange in the postmatch is simply the greatest pro wrestling moment ever in my eyes. I really think it needed to be a long match because they were telling such a huge story. I love that match. Top 3 for me.

This is held back by some structural/pacing issues, otherwise it would have had a good shot at dethroning 6/9/1995 for me. Still all time Top 10 level though. What are the structural/pacing issues with Queendom?

Agree with this.

Love Steven's #1. A bold pick.

Been pecking away at this throughout the day. About halfway through and I was pleased to hear you guys are so high on Satanico and that I wasn't crazy I plan on jumping in on this project soon. Before this project started up I was in the middle of watching all of the 2000 & 2001 CMLL PPV's and they have been a lot of fun top to bottom with the 03/01 show being one of the best forgotten shows in history. The Satanico run gets better and better. He was elected to the WON HOF in 2001 in large part because he was in the middle of this run. I had him WOTY & Most Outstanding in the 2001 WON Awards at the time and the 2001 Infierno en el Ring MOTY. I agree with Chad's point about Satanico not being all that great in the mid-late 90s. Its not that he couldn't still go, he just wasn't a featured player and if you're the 4th or 5th guy in a trios, you're not really supposed to stand out in the average match. If you make a concerted effort to just watch him in that time period like I did for GWE, you can still see him adding to matches and doing good stuff. 2000 and especially 2001 saw him come back into prominence in a featured role and he fucking delivered week in and week out. CMLL TV was a blast in this era. Even the skits were great. That second skit in particular is one of the most fantastically ridiculous skits ever with Satanico's maniacal laughter and his apparent magical powers. I hope you guys talk about Satanico vs Tenryu in this era at some point over the course of the project. Tenryu got a lot of love and best in the world talk at the time but Satanico was right there with him. It will make for an interesting comparison going forward to see which legend had the better career renaissance at age 50. I plan on starting to watch stuff in the next week and this podcast only has me more pumped up. I think you guys have done a really good job talking about the month without spoiling anything so Wahoo's Leg would be fine to listen as soon as he would like without worrying about the matches being hurt when watching later.

I'll probably have something like Loss' 60 or so Flair matches at 4 stars. But since this has kinda fallen into "who has the most 4 star matches" territory (which is a neat idea for a thread in and of itself, who has the most 5 star/4 star matches) and I think one guy who has been overlooked is Stan Hansen. El Hijo del Santo came to mind as well and he might be my pick for the guy with the most 5 star matches.

AWESOME!

This isn't an angle or promo, but it is a legendary non-wrestling performance that is well remembered and greatly enhanced the quality of a legendary match so I feel compelled to bring up Bobby Heenan's 1992 Royal Rumble Commentary Performance (and the post match interview for that matter) as something that belongs in the pantheon of non-wrestling performances on a wrestling program. Which now opens the floor up to: What some other all time great/memorable performances by a commentator? "Lance Russell" is a viable answer by itself.

Edited to give Top 2s. 60s - 1. GIlbert Cesca vs Billy Catanzaro 60's French Catch 2. The Destroyer vs Giant Baba 3/65/69 70s - 1. Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik (2/3 Falls) 7/15/79 2. Terry Funk & Dory Fun Jr vs Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik 12/13/79 80s - 1. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair) 9/23/83 2. Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) 12/30/85 90s - 1. Akira Hokuto & Shinobu Kandori vs Aja Kong & Bull Nakano 03/17/94 2. Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda (No Rope Explosive Barbed Wire Death Match) 5/5/95 00s - 1. Atlantis vs Villano III (Mask vs Mask) 3/17/00 2. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Hiroyuki Ito 08/18/04 10s - 1. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena (Extreme Rules Match) 4/29/12 2. Rey Misterio Jr vs Low Ki 11/14/15

JYD vs Hayes is a great call. Great stuff on Dory vs Jack. And thanks for posting that match Parv. I was trying to find it the other day but gave up when it occurred to me I wasn't sure what the date was and figured I'd find it later. Awesome. I'd argue for the following NWA title changes in addition to the ones you mentioned: Rogers over O'Connor 06/30/61 Thesz over Rogers in Toronto Agree with all your picks. Something like Baba winning the title was a huge deal for him because of how the NWA title was treated in Japan. You also gotta consider that in theory we'd have the match that crowned the first NWA Champ, but Brown was awarded the title. And the longest title reign started with Thesz being awarded the title. You can also look at unrecognized switches like the Thesz vs Carpentier matches and see some interesting shit. Even stuff like Dusty's first win and Kerry's first win are super memorable/all time feel good moments. The Steamboat changes aren't important but are memorable and all time classics so I feel ok about including them in my exaggeration. Certainly not all, but damn near most.

Did you have a specific Dory Jr vs Brisco match in mind Parv? Good call on Tolos vs Blassie. That reminds me of the famous Pepper Gomez vs Ray Stevens. Does anyone have the date for that? Kinda feel like all the NWA title switches up until...seriously looking at the list like Sting in 90 are decent options to go on a list like this.

Holy shit. That is one of those promo's I've always heard about but never actually seen. That was incredible.

I wanted to start this companion thread to the Most Important matches thread. What are the best, most important, most memorable angles, turns and promos in wrestling history? The matches are great, but we love the other stuff too! Whether its Andre Cross Ripping, Dusty's Hard Times, Pine Boxes, Mega Powers Colliding, Cactus' Anti-Hardcore, or just a need to talk to Tom, there is no shortage of candidates.

What US/Canada matches are we missing from the pre Cable TV but still TV era? Say 1948-1980? Stuff already mentioned: Lou Thesz vs Baron Michele Leone 05/21/52 Buddy Rogers vs Pat O’Connor 06/30/61 Lou Thesz vs Buddy Rogers Toronto 63 Bruno vs Koloff 01/18/71 Bockwinkel vs Gagne 11/75 Larry Zbyszko vs Bruno Sammartino at Shea - 8/9/80 edit - I'll go ahead and Add: 7. Bruno Sammartino vs Buddy Rogers 05/17/63 double edit. Forgot to add: Bruno vs Superstar Graham (which had been mentioned I just hadn't included into the master list yet.)

I dig the outside of the box choice. There's got to be more stuff like that.