elliott

Honesly, my pick is just "The Funk Brothers."

Can I ask how many wrestlers made the 2006 top 100 that didn't make the 2016 top 100?

Awesome stuff Loss!

I wish I didn't know I could go back and edit because I've spent the last 15 minutes of my life making little edits and then closing without saving because I fee like I've already pressed submit so its submitted and I don't want to fuck up Grimmas' system. This all started because I emailed myself a copy of my official list I turned in and I noticed last night it was missing #44. But the actual word document absolutely has my #44 on the list AND it is definitely on my official submitted ballot. So weird. Long story short, technology hates me.

If someone wants to do a countdown podcast with me, I will use the phrase "high end matches" for every single wrestler.

Loving part 2. I'm up to Tim's passionate explanation on Atlantis and I agree with allllllll of it. You ranked him higher than me but he's someone I legit thought about for my top 25. Just realized there are 3 1/2 hours left. Holy shit!

Also Parv, did you not like the Vader match???

Wasn't there a Street Fighter character based on Volk Han? Did I hallucinate that (very possible).

I agree his absolute best matches were in RINGS but in terms of singles matches from UWFi.... vs Kakihara 91 vs Anjoh 91 vs Anjoh 92 vs Yamazaki 92 vs Takada 93 vs Sano 93 vs Kakihara 94 vs Vader 94 vs Albright 94 vs Yamazaki 95 all stand out to me as outstanding. I dunno what to do with the Sakuraba series as it is full of outstanding moments even though there isn't an absolute blow away MATCH. There are some tag matches too worth watching for sure. Again, nothing on the level of the Han, Yamamoto, etc matches. But there is definitely some really great stuff in UWFi.

Awesome stuff Jetlag.

Awesome! Looking forward to this!

Continuing on.. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Masayuki Naruse 8/28/98 Slow tentative start as you expect in a shoot style match. Tamura hits the always fun Muy Thai knees in the corner while they’re locked in the clench. The early mat work is perfectly solid stuff. Its more restrained than your insane all out Tamura grappling, but still good, organic, back and forth stuff where they work towards submissions and change positions without going for rope breaks. It isn’t as earth shattering as the Kohsaka match, but Naruse isn’t on that level. At one point, the match stop as doctors come in to look at Naruse’s knee after a Tamura submission attempt and rare rope break. Naruse is pretty badly limping at this point making himself an easy target for Tamura. Rope breaks start coming a lot quicker now with Naruse’s mobility fucked up as Tamura racks up a big lead in points. There’s also a great knockdown where Tamura nails Naruse with a kick to the ribs right as Naruse goes for his crazy spinning back fist. Finish was inevitable with Naruse hurt. This was, I mean, it wasn’t bad. It was on the disappointing side for sure. I’d say SKIPPABLE though. I can’t imagine recommending this. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Yoshihisa Yammamoto (RINGS 9/21/98) Yearbook Nice feeling out opening mat work leading to an awesome moment where they both end up on their feet and Yammamoto just charges as Tamura. The mat wok here isn’t as over the top flashy as the Han or Ilioukhine match, nor as ambitious as the Kohsaka match, but it is great stuff for sure. Yamamoto is absolutely relentless with palm strikes during a standing exchange. Awesome moment where Tamura is trying to fight back after a knockdown and is unloading with this awesome striking combo and attempts a high kick which Yammamoto blocks and turns into an ankle lock. They continue trading strikes and the crowd is going bananas. Tamura plants a knee to the chest for a knockdown. This picked up in a major way when they just decided they were going to try and hit each other as hard as possible as many times as possible. After some unbelievable standing exchanges, they take things back to the mat and are both looking for finishes. Tamura is insane in this match attempting his jumping kicks and knees more often while Yamamoto fights back with hard slaps. Tamura takes the match with a hard slap leading to a choke. This felt like a really great New Japan match where they sort of fart around at the beginning (although it is good farting around) and then when it picks up it picks up in such a major way by the end of it you’re like “oh yeah that’s a MOTYC.” Easy easy EPIC. Missing Tamura vs Vladimir Klementiev 10/23/98 Missing 11/20/98 Mega Battle Team Tournament with Tamura vs Andrei Kopilov and Nikolai Zouev Missing Tamura vs Kenichi Yamamoto 11/23/98 Kiyoshi Tamura vs Kohsaka 1/23/99 Follow up to their all time classic from the previous June. They go right to the mat after a great struggle over a Kohsaka take down. Kohsaka is so fucking smooth. He’s one of the rare guys that doesn’t look completely outclassed by Tamura on the mat. This allows them to push their exchanges much further than you would see in something like the Naruse match. I mean, there’s a borderline rolling cradle at one point. Tamura is top notch as usual in terms of his selling and desperate attempts for the ropes when Kohsaka finally does get something locked in. This is all really good mat work until the finishing stretch when they have an awesome strike fest that starts with both guys throwing hard low kicks at each other, Tamura getting a slight advantage on jumping on it just blasting Kohsaka with jumping knees and hard slaps before getting the knockdown. But Kohsaka manages to pull out the surprise win. This was awesome. Its only 10 minutes so its WAY shorter than their classic from the previous June. But its cool to see them work a different sort of match. GREAT stuff. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Hiromitsu Kanehara (RINGS 3/22/99) Yearbook Pretty tentative opening moments with both guys attempting strikes before taking it to the mat. The mat work is your more traditional shoot style mat work without the wild chances you’ll see in a Volk Han match. They don’t work at a breakneck pace but the grappling is typically excellent. Tamura has a pretty easy time with Kanehara early on and you don’t really get the feeling that Tamura is in any danger at any point even when Kanehara has better positioning or is attempting submissions. This was a bizarre match. It isn’t particularly bad and both wrestlers look fine, there just isn’t much to say about it. It almost feels like a NJ match where the light for TV goes on with 1 minute left. This is probably the worst match of Tamura’s career that goes longer than 15 minutes. Again it isn’t necessarily bad…its just felt like they slept walked through. I blame Kanehara. SKIPPABLE. Tamura vs Frank Shamrock 4/23/99 (Shoot) Kiyoshi Tamura vs Bitsaze Tariel 5/22/99 I enjoy this match up so I’m looking forward to this. Tariel is so much fun throwing a ton of big strikes and even jumping at Tamura at one point to the delight of the crowd. This is a lot of fun early on with Tamura just getting overwhelmed in the first 2 minutes. Tamura finally gets an opening and takes Tariel down and works towards a sleeper. Tariel’s striking is his best offense but also his worst defense here. He keeps leaving himself open for Tamura to get a takedown and Tariel cannot hang on the mat with Tamura so Tamura is able to maintain control. Tariel does a good job putting over the danger of Tamura’s ground game. This is a little formulaic. Tariel goes after Tamura with strikes, Tamura eventually gets a takedown and tries for submissions leading to Tariel going for the ropes which leads to them standing and repeating the formula. This is not a bad thing. It leads to an awesome match. Tariel gets blown up towards the end, but he worked his ass off to get there. GREAT Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Yoshihisa Yammamoto (RINGS 6/24/99) Yearbook OJ told me these two didn’t like each other in real life and the fans knew it. That added to the pre-match slap Tamura hit son Yamamoto give this a special feel from the get to. The opening mat work is incredible. It is lightening fast but worked with a grittiness that reminds me of the early exchanges against Anjoh only with more polish on both sides. The crowd here is fabulous. Reacting to every little cue the workers give. The mat work here is more in line with the Kohsaka match where it feels more traditional than a Han match that feels more innovative and exciting. Not to say the mat work here isn’t exciting. It is spectacular. Between the speed, technique, degree of difficulty, etc the best Tamura mat exchanges are the best in wrestling history. This probably has the most exciting strike exchanges I can remember seeing throughout this project. It may not be as innovative or how the highspots of Tamura vs Han or Tamura vs Ilioukhine. It may not have the ambitious sporting feel of Tamura vs Kohsaka. But this. This has all the great mat work and striking you hope to get out of a Tamura match but it adds a certain aggression. Tamura wrestles with more of an edge here than he usually does. He always wants to win and you can obviously see the urgency with which he wrestles. But here, this is the only time where it seems to go beyond sport and feels personal. Maybe I’m projecting because I know they don’t like each other in real life. But that really seems to come through. Compare this to the Kohsaka match. That seems positively Olympic. This is a fight with rules and it is spectacular. Probably one of the 20 best matches ever. EPIC Sadly this is all I have from RINGS. I’ll have to go back and pick up some of these shows I missed at some point. It is much more likely I’ll pick up all the U-Style shows first to be honest. There’s a little bit of U-Style online though and I’ll review what I’ve been able to find. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Joop Kasteel 8/19/99 Goddamn Joop Kasteel is an intimidating dude. Slow start with both guys feeling each other out. I love the spot when they go to the mat and Tamura throws a punch at Kasteel’s gut and Kasteel just leans back and puts his arms out like “Come on, hit me” so Tamura blasts Kasteel to no reaction. So then Tamura just goes for a leg lock instead realizing that Kasteel is literally made of steel. Seriously Kasteel is so big and strong that his punches while lying flat on his back look really fucking rough. This is really Tamura just trying to figure out how to deal with this giant man on the mat who not only is deceptively quick but has the strength to just toss Tamura around. AMAZING knockdown sell by Tamura after Kasteel hits him with a low kick putting Tamura down. Kasteel actually responds in kind going down after a Tamura kick to the ribs. Tamura is just awesome towards the finish selling damage to the leg from a few really hard Kasteel kicks. Tamura gets the win which felt like an upset just because of the way it was worked. FUN

Continuing... Kiyoshi Tamura vs Akira Maeda 3/28/97 Crowd is HOT for this and I’m pretty fucking stoked honestly. Its been a long time since I’ve watched old Maeda and he is a large fellow. Hard kicks to start before Maeda goes for a leg submission. Tamura talks a little trash before attempting to get out of it but he can’t escape. Maeda works into a choke and Tamura has to go for a rope break. Maeda blocks a HARD kick and goes for another leg lock. Tamura isn’t close to the ropes so he works towards his own ankle lock to counter it and the crowd his super into it. These two have such great facials and charisma and the crowd is so into it that they have hands down the best dueling leglocks I’ve literally ever seen. That spot have NEVER been dramatic but these two work it to perfection and a Maeda rope break. Tamura is pretty obviously holding back in this match so he doesn’t completely upstage Maeda. He works a few float over counters but he doesn’t really unleash his quickness like he would against someone like Han or Sakuraba or Anjoh. I love Maeda and at one point I think he was a good mat worker. But by 1997 age and evolution and guys like Tamura & Han took mat work to another level. Maeda couldn’t really keep up but he still has that charisma and connection with the crowd so when he’s paired with an all time great like Tamura where both guys knows how to sell and milk drama, they make something as mundane as dueling leglocks a really awesome spot. The finish is utterly utterly spectacular and I won’t ruin it. I would call the match FUN but encourage people to watch it for the leglocks spot and the quick finishing run. Tamura continues to look great and in the context of working “how he needed to work” this is a good example. Working against someone like Han, you’re going to get a balls to the wall mat work spot fest. Maeda couldn’t really do that so instead Tamura toned it down to make Maeda look strong (its his company after all) and they still managed to have some really good moments. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Chris Haseman 4/4/97 Very tentative and slow start. I can’t help but laugh at Haseman’s Amerian cornerman screaming “Rip his arm off” like it’s karate kid. GET HIM A BODY BAG YEAAAAH! This is a pretty non-descript match. Back and forth mat work. Nothing really spectacular or even notable. SKIPPABLE Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 4/22/97) Yearbook I was having trouble writing about this match when I watched it so I cheated and peaked at the PWO thread about it to see what was up and this was the match everyone thought was a shoot. Which actually made sense. That none of us can tell whether or not it was worked or a shoot should probably be a point in these guys’ favor for the GWE poll considering they work “shoot style” and even us nerds are fooled. Missing Tamura vs Grom ZaZa 5/23/97 Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Nikolai Zouev (RINGS 6/21/97) Yearbook They take it right to the mat with Zouev attempting a take down but Tamura blocking it getting the advantage. They trade submission attempts on the ground with Tamura successfully attempting some beautiful counters. Zouev is a much more exciting defensive wrestler than Nagai or Mikhail Ilioukhine which allows Tamura a better showcase for his ridiculous mat skills. The mat work here isn’t on the level of the Han matches but it is spectacular with both guys looking great. Tamura pulls out some positively Volk Han-esque submissions that I’ve never seen him attempt before. One is particularly ridiculous and it leads to Zouev getting a reversal and forcing a rope break. Tamura is actually behind on rope breaks, which is rare in a non Han/Maeda match at this point because Tamura is such a great defensive wrestler he is usually able to work his way out of submissions. You get the sense that Tamura might be trying to be too wacky inspired by the crazy shit Han was doing that was working against Tamura. Zouev is sort of using that against him. When Tamura gets down to business and does what makes him successful, he has success. Zouev manages to score the victory with an incredible rolling cradle submission. This was excellent. This isn’t on the level of Tamura’s absolute best matches but it is awesome. EPIC I wanted to take some time to say RINGS has the best production values of any company in wrestling history. Everyone knows and loves the over-head camera but basically all of the camera work is perfect and adds to the match. You get the over-head camera showing all the fast paced and intricate mat work. You get awesome close-ups of facials and limbs twisted in obscene directions when submissions are locked in or being worked for. They have a knack for catching terrific shots of guys diving towards the ropes in pure desperation. There are wide shots of the ring from every direction and across each turnbuckle so you always get a great view of the work standing up. The crowd is mic’d perfectly and so well educated that you get great heat for the smallest little things that help make the match that much more enjoyable. Even the announcer I don’t understand has a great voice and over the top but not so overbearing like the All Japan announcer who makes me want to hit things. Watching RINGS at its peak is just a total joy. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Bitsadze Tariel (RINGS 7/22/97) Yearbook This is one of those Tamura vs Auto Mechanic/Child Molester looking type matches so it will probably be great. Tariel immediately puts Tamura down with a super fast striking combo 10 seconds into the match. Business has picked up. He goes after Tamura immediately after the reset and our hero might be overwhelmed. He’s just trying to hang on and hope the big man blows up. Which ends up happening pretty quick. Tamura gets an easy takedown. Tamura works towards a choke leading to an early rope break. Tariel keeps going for striking combs and apparently takes an errant finger to the eye. Tariel continues his barrage of strikes and scores yet another knockdown. Tamura manages another takedown and locks in an armbar leading to a rope break. Tariel is really using his size to try and dominate. He attempts a leglock, but Tamura quickly reverses it into his own for another rope break. Pretty basic story here of the striker vs the submission wrestler. Tamura’s strategy is to weather the storm and let Tariel get in close enough so his strikes aren’t as hard and he can get a quick takedown and go for a submission. Tariel is pretty outclassed on the mat but he can absolutely knock Tamura out. After another reset after a Tariel rope break, he manages to put Tamura down with a sick knee combo. Tamura continues to fight back with submissions by locking in another leg lock for a rope break. It is a basic story but they are doing a good job with it. Finishing run when they’re both down to their last 2 points is utterly spectacular as both guys are trying everything. Tamura is going for strikes, and Tariel is looking for submissions. This was awesome. Easy GREAT match. Missing Tamura vs Hans Nyman 8/13/97 Kiyoshi Tamura vs Volk Han (RINGS 9/26/97) Yearbook Tamura solves his Volk Han problem. Its Tamura vs Han, I can’t possibly review it. EPIC Million billion stars. Missing Tamura vs Elvis Sinosic 10/14/97 Shoot Kiyoshi Tamura vs Hans Nyman 10/25/97 I’m at the point where if a Tamura opponent has a pot-belly, I expect it will be a good match. Both guys are tentative to start. Nyman strikes first blood with some really hard slaps but Tamura responds with some leg kicks. Nyman gets a big suplex to take things to the mat. Tamura manages to roll around and get the dominant position and start looking for a submission. He can’t pull anything off so they work back to their feet. Nyman lands some hard strikes and gets a surprise knockdown. After some more strike exchanges they go back to the mat but get tied up in the ropes before anything can happen. Great takedown by Tamura when Nyman tries to rush him for more strikes. Back to the mat but Nyman quickly goes for a rope break. Match picks up in a big way when Nyman starts unloading with striking combos and gets back to back knockdowns. Tamura takes a knee to the head when they’re on the ground which is against the rules and we get a brief stoppage. Nyman goes right back to striking trying to put Tamura away. Tamura manages a takedown and sinks in a side headlock for the win. This was kind of a weird match. At time it felt like it might be a shoot but at other times it didn’t. It almost felt like they spent the whole match feeling each other out before the hot end. SKIPPABLE Kiyoshi Tamura vs Joop Kasteel 11/20/97 Tentative start as Tamura figures out how to best approach this giant musclebound man in front of him. Kasteel is an imposing figure to be sure when he’s charging and throwing strikes at you because he’s surprisingly quick in addition to being a human brick wall. Finally Tamura is able to grab a leg and lock in an ankle lock for a flash sub. This was FUN. I enjoyed Kasteel quite a bit actually. Akira Maeda vs. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 12/23/97) Yearbook Maeda is a lot more spry on the mat to start this than he was in their previous match. It isn’t great or anything, but he gets down and works some nice back and forth exchanges for a hot second. Tamura again works at a much slower pace than he does against non-Maeda opponents so as not to show him up. Because of his athleticism, Tamura is simply capable of things Maeda is not and you see that in flashes but Tamura is clearly holding back early on. Instead of working a workrate sprint like Han Tamura, this is more slow building to a few big submission attempts early on. Once theyre standing again Maeda starts throwing some insane strikes to pick things up so Tamura feels inspired to take things back down and go balls to the wall looking for a sub but he leaves himself open for the veteran Maeda to lock in a sleeper for a rope break. This sucker just picked up in a big way. They end up slowing this back down in a big way with some more slowish back and forth mat work until Tamura gets the big upset. I really wanted this to be better. These two had a great match in them. A few more stand up exchanges would have gone a long way towards making this feel like a more definitive “passing of the torch” match. This had flashes of brilliance but never really sustained it. I’ll still call it FUN since it’s Tamura’s big win and like I said there are some flashes. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Mikhail Ilioukhine (RINGS 1/21/98) Yearbook They go to the mat right away for some back and forth grappling. Ilioukhine keeps up well and mixes in a nice slam for good measure. Tamura opens up with the first hard strikes with some nice high kicks before its back to the mat. Ilioukhine works for a choke and Tamura attempts the fastest evasive roll in history. They get tangled up and the resf restarts them. There are some absolutely stunning submission attempts and counters leading to Tamura desperately diving for the first rope break of the match. WOW. Ilioukhine attempts some truly ridiculous submission attempts in this leading to Tamura rope breaks. Tamura is forced to take yet another rope break and is starting to throw more and more strikes to force a come back getting a flash knockdown with a high kick to the head. Ilioukhine is just overwhelming Tamura with submission attempts and getting advice from Volk Han at ringside. Tamura looks totally perplexed and continues with a cautious striking strategy. I can’t even keep going with this half hearted play by play. This match is too fucking good. The grappling, the striking, selling, everything. This is shockingly great. I don’t ever remember seeing this and if I did I completely forgot about it. But this is the absolute forgotten all time classic Tamura match. Everyone talks about the Han and Kohsaka matches. The Yamamoto match from 99 has gotten a ton of praise in recent years. More people talk about the Vader match than this while not putting it on the level of those other matches. THIS is on the level of those other matchs. I know Loss rated this really high and it got some love and recognized as a classic in the yearbook thread. But holy fuck is this completely spectacular. Easy easy easy EPIC. If I was doing star ratings I’d call this 5 stars. Tamura looks like the best wrestler in the world and Ilioukhine does not look at of his league at all and brings a ton to the match. Unbelieveable. Probably the best match I’ve ever seen that no one ever talks about. Missing Tamura vs Sergei Sousserov 3/3/98 Kiyoshi Tamura vs Dick Leon-Vrij 3/28/98 Vrij is such an intimidating figure. Just big and long and clearly a great athlete. This starts with both guys feeling each other out with strikes before going to the mat where neither guy can really get control. Great knockdown by Vrij with a sick looking knee which Tamura did a great slow knockdown sell for. Back to the mat with Vrij in control at first but Tamura getting a nice rolling counter to get the advantageous position but Vrij is able to just power out of it in a really impressive spot. Vrij follows up with a great striking combo. Tamura’s selling of near knockouts is one of his amazing traits I haven’t talked about nearly enough. He is incredible at selling damage in a realistic fashion that still reaches everyone in the crowd. Great facial expressions and body language. This fucking guy. Tamura gets some payback with a super fast slapping combo for a nominal knockdown. This only makes Vrij angry andhe comes out with a wild striking combo leading to Tamura locking in a sleeper and Vrij goes for the fucking eyes! Whoa! The ref gives Vrij a yellow card and Virj offers a handshake but Tamura waves him off. Damn. Tamura immediately takes Vrij down and gets a sleeper with Vrij tapping almost before Tamura even locks it in. Tamura stands over Vrij giving him the Allen Iverson stepping over Ty Lue look and it’s awesome. That was an interesting finish. FUN. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Valentijn Overeem (RINGS 4/16/98) Yearbook SHOOT Didn’t watch for this project because it is a known shoot match. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Bitsadze Tariel (RINGS 5/29/98) Yearbook This starts like their prior match with Tariel getting close and pummeling Tamura with strikes for a pair of quick knockdowns. Tamura is pretty clearly overwhelmed early on but tries to strike back with the big man. Tariel proves to be too much for Tamura standing up getting a knockdown that has Tamura rolling all the way outside of the ring. Whoa. Shit got real there. Tariel puts Tamura away with a high kick to the face. This was incredible. Just a brutal squash. Tamura gets knocked completely silly. I really wanted to call this great because it is a fucking blast, but I’m just going to go FUN. Watch this though. It is spectacular. Its just…coming off the heels of the Ilioukhine match I can't call it more than FUN. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 6/27/98) Yearbook This is another one of those impossible to review in play-by-play form. So I will just make some brief observations and thoughts I had while watching and thinking about this. I know it is hard to imagine a 30 minute shoot style draw that flys by but this just flys by. It has never felt like 30 minutes before because they keep such a steady pace throughout this. These two take the idea of opening match feeling each other out mat work to a whole new level. They literally work back and forth on the mat with no rope breaks, striking, resets or standing for 11 consecutive minutes. It is just back and forth beautiful counter wrestling uninterrupted for 11 minutes. It isn’t as flashy or over the top as Tamura vs Han or Tamura vs Ilioukhine but the technique is perfect. It feels like the shoot style equivalent of Flair vs Steamboat where they aren’t trying to re-invent the wheel but they’ve completely mastered the more traditional aspects of their style and are able to execute and perform are the highest possible level. The Han/Tamura matches feel more like Flair/Funk where they are brilliant but Funk pushes Flair in a different and more wild way much like Han does to Tamura. So while you may get more exciting and flashy moments in Flair/Funk or Han/Tamura, there is this feeing of utter brilliance to Tamura/Kohsaka and Flair/Steamboat where you think only these two guys could have this match together. The opening 11 minute back and forth segment ends with a stand up reset so there’s no points gone until 13:35 in the match and it doesn’t seem forced or ridiculous. Kohsaka is an incredible Tamura opponent. In addition to the mat work, these two have one of the most spectacular strike exchanges in shoot style history. The speed of their palm strikes is insane and especially when you consider how far into the match it is when it happens. In terms of stamina, this is one of the most impressive matches you’ll ever see. The pace they cut and what they’re actually doing is incredible. I actually think it is more of a physical achievement to work a match like this than the pacing of something like Flair/Steamboat from the Clash which is not meant to diss the Clash match but entirely meant to put over how impressive this is from a pure “stamina” perspective. It’s one thing to work a side headlock for 10 straight minutes. What Tamura and Kohsaka do here is another thing entirely. Even after watching all 3 Han/Tamura matches tonight, and the absolutely incredible Ilioukhine match, this still manages to stand out as a monumental match. This is quite possibly the best match ever. I’ve been so sure that Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 was the best match ever for years, but watching this again (and for the sake of transparency, I watched it twice tonight) this feels like it might be the best match ever. EPIC but that doesn’t even begin to describe it.

I'm missing a bunch of RINGS matches unfortunately so this project will be all wrapped up in the next 24 hours for the time being. I plan on getting all the U-Style shows down the line so I will review those when I get them. Hopefully more RINGS matches will pop up online but I may end up picking some of those up in the future. Anyway, I'll list the missing matches as I go along in case anyone knows they're online or has one/some and can put them online. I will absolutely review any Tamura matches. Anyway, here we go... EDIT: Before I get to RINGS, I forgot to mention, GOTNW sent me a link to the Tamura vs Maeda 2 minute match from 89 where Maeda breaks Tamura's face. It is the best squash match ever and I'll edit it into the first post so everything stays in order. Thanks GOTNW!. RINGS Kiyoshi Tamura vs Dick Leon-Vrij 6/29/96 (First ever RINGS match) The pre match press conference in this video is spectacular. Kiyoshi Tamura gives what sounds like the most straight-laced interview in history and Akira Maeda has Bernie Sanders hair. This is Tamura’s very first match in RINGS and the crowd is hot for Tamura and buzzing big time pre-match. Kick trading to start with Tamura getting a quick takedown and forcing a rope break within 35 seconds. Tamura is getting big “OHHHHS” for his low kicks. Vrij is awesome waving Tamura on for more low leg kicks and so Tamura plants 3 super hard kicks right in a row and Vrij gives him a Brock Lesnar smile as the crowd continues to buzz. Vrij fires back with some huge knees and eventually gets a high kick for a knockdown. Tamura is awesome selling the knockdown getting up at 9 and looking lights out on the ground. Back standing and Tamura shoots in a for a beautiful double leg takedown and works for a choke. He wrenches back a little too hard and Virj kinda comes after him a bit and his seconds start to jump in the ring. Crowd is HOT. Tamura keeps throwing strikes. Vrij blocks a jumping high kick and laughs again then blocks a Tamura takedown but just lets Tamura back up for more striking. AWESOME moment where Vrij goes for a spinning back first and Tamura takes him down going for an armbar before a rope break. More crazy stiff knees by Vrij before Tamrua gets another takedown and sinks in a choke for the win at 3:41. Holy shit! Best sub 4minute match ever? It has to be. This was spectacular. It feels weird to go EPIC but man this was awesome. Short as it was, I adored this. EPIC. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Willie Peeters 7/16/96 Opening strike exchange has Peeters throwing some really wild strikes before taking Tamura down with a gorgeous belly to belly suplex. More wild striking with Tamura fighting back a little more leading to another awesome Peeters suplex. Peeters has the advantage on the mat for a bit but doesn’t try for anything and they stand back up. They continue along with more feeling each other out until going for hard strike exchanges. Peeters is pretty damn fun taking a bunch of lunging wild risks with his striking. He gets the first rope break too with a side headlock on Tamura. More wild striking attempts. Peeters tries a second headlock takeover but Tamura blocks this one and goes for the choke. Pretty cool little story with Peeters nailing the first two belly to belly suplexes and Tamura blocking an attempt of a 3rd. Then Peeters going for a 2nd headlock takeover & Tamura blocking it the 2nd time around. Tamura blocks yet another suplex attempt by Peeters and Peeters dives close to the ropes as Tamura starts to look for submissions. Peeters doesn’t have the worlds most engaging ground game. Back standing after they get tied up in the ropes. Tamura immediately goes for a takedown and Peeters dives for the ropes for a ropebreak. Peeters responds by going for more wild strikes but Tamura gets a knockdown with a hard low kick. Tamura is just having his way with Peeters at this point. Peeters is finally able to block a takedown attempt with pretty awesome rough counter but again can’t really do much with the advantage on the mat and just stands back up. Tamura starts throwing some really hard kicks and Peeters just takes them showing they have no effect. Tamura gets another takedown as Peeters goes for the ropes. Peeters has a good strategy of landing near the ropes so they can easily get tangled up in the ropes and he saves himself from having to use a rope break. Awesome quick ankle lock attempt by Tamura as Peeters dives for the ropes again. Tamura is just outclassing him in a major way. Peeters is able to block a few takedowns by just diving on top of Tamura but Tamura is able to work for a triangle choke. Awesome moment as Tamura hits his nip up after Peeters taps as the crowd explodes. This rocked. The RING atmosphere is awesome. Between the announcers, the crowd, and the camera work/presentation these RINGS matches have been a fucking blast so far. Tamura looks like a fully formed great worker at his peak. He is striking a lot more early on while showing he could destroy Peeters on the mat at will. This project is about to get soooo good. GREAT Kiyoshi Tamura vs Maurice Smith 8/24/96 This is a shoot fight. And it is not an entertaining one. Smith makes the mistake of wearing boxing gloves and loses to a cross armbreaker. Boring boring boring. JVK asked in the “Beginners Guide To Shoot Style” thread “Why would anyone watch this compared to UFC?” in regards to a Han/Tamura match. Well, this boring shit is why. Yuck. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Volk Han (RINGS 9/25/96) Yearbook So I don’t know that I can really give this a proper review. So I’ll just mention some broader things that I thought during this match. First, I just really love the look of this match from the workers to the way it is filmed obviously. But I love the dichotomy of Han and Tamura. Tamura is obviously this cut, muscular athletic looking dude. While Vok Han looks like he’d be more comfortable wearing a lab coat than fighting someone. The overhead camera is great as everyone knows. It is just the perfect angle for this sort of submission grappling. Han becomes Tamura’s best opponent up till now less than 90seconds in probably. The first ground exchange from Han’s deadlift takeover till the first rope break is ridiculous with lightening fast intricate smooth back and forth mat work unlike anything you’ve ever seen. There are a ton of little things throughout that I really like beyond the “smoothest and best mat-work ever.” Han flattening Tamura with that bullrushing strike combo, Tamura getting a knockdown from a quick hard kick to the stomach, Tamura’s selling, the announcers, the crowd, etc. Just an awesome match. It will be interesting to see if I still think the 6/98 Kohsaka match is Tamura’s best or if one of the Volk matches will surpass it. This felt like they were seeing just how far they could push each other and their style. EPIC Kiyoshi Tamura vs Mikhail Ilioukhine 10/25/96 It is utterly impossible to follow the Han match. You get the feeling from the very start that Tamura is much more comfortable and in control than he was in the Han match. This is much slower paced and cautious at first leading to a nice slam by Illoukhine. Tamura gets a nice applause for his favorite roll through counter of a cross arm breaker attempt. Early on Tamura is showing his awesome defensive wrestling abilities avoiding and coutering out of Illioukhine’s submissions with ease before Tamura finally locks in a slick knee bar for a rope break. Awesome sequence where Illoukhine locks in a leg lock and Tamura is terrific selling it attempting to go for the ropes before finding a counter and locking in his own submission for another rope break. Tamura is really awesome shifting around going for quick submissions and moving to another position really quickly if he doesn’t lock it in to keep things moving. From a kayfabe point of view it is brilliant because it keeps his opponent off balance and he never knows where the submission is coming from. From a viewer’s perspective, Tamura is so fast and polished on the mat that it is impressive to watch him bounce around for submissions and the crowd loves it. I was just thinking how there weren’t many strike exchanges in this match and Tamura just obliterates Mikhail with a kick to the stomach and follows it up with a striking combo for a knockdown. After the reset Mikhail locks in another submission but instead of going for the ropes Tamura counters out of it yet again. Mikhail continues going for takedowns and submissions finally getting Tamura in danger enough to cause a rope break 14 minutes into the match. Tamura gets a win with his signature go behind into a sleeper for the tap. Great work in the sleeper as Illioukhine fought it and fought it before tapping. Again, this is hard to rate coming on the heels of the Volk Han match (and to be honest, I watched the Kohsaka draw from 98 earlier today out of order because I’m impatient) because Han is just at another level. Tamura didn’t work with the same out of control desperation. Here he is more in control against talented but less dangerous worker. Tamura didn’t need to go to wild striking in this and only had the one rope break deep into the match. This felt like a “hierarchy” match with Tamura working differently against Han than a less worker here. Anyway, this was very enjoyable. FUN. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Mitsuya Nagai 11/22/96 For the sake of transparency, when I think of Mitsuya Nagai, I think of him getting kicked in the face by Toshiaki Kawada. So I hope Tamura kicks him in the face really hard. Tentative striking to start with Nagai looking a little more spastic to Tamura’s calm. After a few minutes we go to the mat after Nagai blocks a Tamura jumping knee and gets a big slam. Nagai doesn’t really do much while he has Tamura on his back except open himself up to get locked into a triangle choke. Great spot as Nagai picks him up and walks over towards the ropes while still in the choke. Tamura takes Nagai down and appears to be holding on for dear life. Tamura attempts a few different chokes and you get the feeling Nagai just trying to hang on. He’s not really attempting his own submissions. He’s just trying not to get choked out. Tamura slowly locks in a side headlock for the win. This was pretty disappointing. Nagai didn’t look good here at all. Tamura did what he could but this was an easy SKIPPABLE. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto 12/19/96 I’m excited for this as it’s their first match together and they’d go on to become great rivals both in and out of the ring. This was really fun. Its short, about 10minutes, but very good and very aggressive. They’re standing and striking for most of the match and really just blasting the shit out of each other. I think the plan was strike until Yamamoto gets completely gassed, go to the mat until he catches his breath, stand up and strike, repeat formula. So this was very exciting and very heated. Tamura gets cut along the way and the finish is fucking spectacular. GREAT. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Volk Han (RINGS 1/22/97) Yearbook The opening mat work exchange is about as spectacular as anything I can remember seeing in wrestling. They are practically dancing with each other. Kiyoshi Tamura might actually be Neo. I can’t possibly review this so I’m not going to try. If you haven’t seen this match or this series of matches you’re missing out. Tamura vs Han is one of those series of matches like Lawler vs Dundee, Flair vs Steamboat, Misawa vs Kawada, Hansen vs Colon, Santo Jr vs Casas that everyone needs to watch. EPIC.

I expect I'll have Tamura ranked the highest. He's not #1 or anything, but he's ahead of some really heavy hitters that may come as a surprise. My #1 isn't a big shock for who it turned out to be but I didn't talk much about him. I'll post my full lists once balloting closes for sure.

You should get both. The Rose set is phenomenal but there's some really great Portland Rose that isn't on that that I suspect will be on the 80s set. Plus there will be all the non-Rose stuff. Portland set will fucking rule.

Turned in my Top 100 and Top 25 Tag Team ballots. I feel like there's a decent mixture of boring and weirdo picks. This was way too much fun and I encourage more giant projects like this.

Awesome!

Thanks for the kind words guys! I'm back in SC for the week but when I get back home i'll write up At least a satanico vs flair comparison and maybe some comps with other big name candidates. But almost everything I listed is on youtube so I do hope yall check some of those matches out!

I wish I had hunkered down and written this up a year ago so people had more time to watch the matches. Life, other wrestling projects/watching, my own damn procrastination etc kept getting in the way and I’m doing this last minute even though it has been written in my head for months and months. El Satanico is a strong contender for Greatest Wrestler of All Time. The battle for #1 is always going to be the most interesting in a poll like PWO’s Greatest Wrestler Ever project. Everyone has tons of candidates to make their top 100 list, but everyone has only a few #1 candidates (if they have more than 1). Some of the names are familiar long time favorites like Ric Flair or Terry Funk while others like Jerry Lawler or Yoshiaki Fujiwara are more recent discoveries as potential GOATs. El Satanico is on my short list of candidates for the Greatest Wrestler Ever. He has an inherent disadvantage in a list like this because he is a luchadore and some people just don’t/can’t/won’t “get” lucha libre. But if you are a fan of Lucha Libre, then El Satanico has a very strong case to be considered the greatest wrestler of all time. I will examine different aspects of his case including: Peak, Longevity, Singles Work, Trios Work, Title Match Work, Brawling/Hair Match Work, Heel Work, Babyface Work, Post Prime Work, Memorable Feuds, Criticisms, Odds & Ends, and I will finish with a ton of match recommendations. But before we get into the thick of everything I wanted to first put El Satanico in more general context by reposting the list of wrestler birthdays and how old they are compared to Satanico. When you’re watching a random match it is sometimes easy to forget how old he is and it is important to consider who his immediate peers are. I will then discuss the “lack of footage” knee jerk criticism people have. El Satanico Born 10/26/1949 Also born in 1949: Ric Flair 2/25/49 – 8 Months older than Satanico Yoshiaki Fujiwara 4/27/49 – 6 Months older than Satanico Bob Backlund 8/14/49 – 2 Months older than Satanico Stan Hansen 8/29/49 – 2 Months older than Satanico Lizmark 9/18/49 – 1 Month older than Satanico Jerry Lawler 11/29/49 – 1 Month younger than Satanico Wrestlers born within 5 years of Satanico: Terry Funk 6/30/44 – 5 Years Older than Satanico Vince McMahon 8/24/45 – 4 Years Older than Satanico Perro Aguayo 1/1846 – 4 Years Older than Satanico Andre the Giant 5/19/46 – 3 Years older than Satanico Dick Murdoch 8/16/46 – 3 Years older than Satanico Genichiro Tenryu 2/2/50 – 3 Months Younger than Satanico Jumbo Tsuruta 3/25/51 – 2 Years younger than Satanico Greg Valentine 9/20/51 – 2 years younger than Satanico Riki Choshu 12/3/51 – 2 years younger than Satanico Villano III 3/23/52 or 1/21/53 (luchawiki had both) 3 or 4 years younger than Satanico Randy Savage 11/15/52 – 3 years younger than Satanico Buddy Rose 11/15/52 – 3 years younger than Satanico Ricky Steamboat 2/28/53 – 4 years younger than Satanico Hulk Hogan 8/11/53 – 4 years younger than Satanico Tatsumi Fujinami 11/28/53 – 4 years younger than Satanico Ted Dibiase 1/18/54 – 4 years younger than Satanico So those guys are his direct peers. Lack of Footage Discussion Perhaps the most frequent criticism of Satanico is a lack of footage from his 1980s athletic peak. So I wanted to address that first and see if there is enough on film. I believe there is definitely enough footage for El Satanico to be considered a #1 GOAT Contender. He is at an obvious disadvantage compared to his peers when it comes to prime footage. The earliest complete Satanico match I’ve seen took place on 9/24/83 against Sangre Chicana at which time Satanico was already 33 years old. Even though we don’t have footage of a “young & growing up” Satanico, the sampling of matches from 9/83-10/84 gives us a terrific glimpse of what Satanico looked like at his athletic peak. This time period has great examples of Satanico working brawls, technical matches, and trios matches. It is a bummer that we don’t have week in and week out lucha footage from the early-mid 80s, but we are lucky to have some truly great Satanico matches against some really different wrestlers. I’ll discuss his 9/83-10/84 athletic peak later in more detail. After this period there is another gap in lucha footage before it picks back up in 88/89. El Satanico is still clearly one of the best wrestlers in Mexico when CMLL starts airing on TV. He is a featured player in 88-90 and has the opportunity to add an all time classic feud and several classic matches to his resume.’ From this late 80s/early 90s period till present day there are a shit ton of Satanico matches that made tape against probably hundreds of different wrestlers. Yes, most of them are trios matches (he is a luchadore after all), but there are singles matches as well. You might also say “yeah but it is post prime so it isn’t top of the line Satanico” but you’d be wrong in a lot of ways. Yes, time passes and he ages. But if you look at the footage the only clear dropoffs in quality are mostly due to opportunity/booking and when he gets the opportunity he almost always delivers. In summary, no, the lack of 80s footage does not dissuade me from viewing Satanico as a #1 candidate. There is enough variety in the sampling of footage from his 83/84 “Athletic Peak” and more than enough footage from 1988-Present to know Satanico as well as just about any other wrestler. If all we had was the matches from late 83-1984 only, he wouldn’t be a contender for greatest of all time because of lack of footage. He would be one of the great “lost” workers. But if all we had was 89-present, he probably wouldn’t be a clear top contender for me. Those early matches, though few in number, are crucial to Satanico’s case. Three Separate Peaks: 9/83-12/84, 89-90, and 2001 I think there are 3 specific runs that best highlight Satanico’s strengths as a worker. You could watch just these 3 runs and get a great idea of what Satanico is all about as a worker. The gaps in 80s lucha footage simply makes it impossible to say Satanico’s peak was 9/83-12/90. I hate the idea of calling something a “peak year” when we only have one or two matches (at best) from that year and so I look at those 3 runs as the most important 3 runs of Satanico’s career. Lets look at each specific run: September 1983 – December 1984 This run gives us an excellent view of “Athletic Prime” Satanico. His is 33-35 years old during this run. He is just old enough that he has tons of experience and ring savy and just old enough that his body hasn’t broken down and he (theoretically) hasn’t lost a step as an “athlete.” I wanted to briefly comment on each match from this run because there are only 9. I won’t go match by match for the other runs. The matches from this run are: vs Sangre Chicana 9/24/83 w/ MS-1 & Espectro Jr vs Sangre Chicana, La Fiera & El Faraon 9/30/83 vs Atlantis 1984 vs Lizmark April 1984 vs Shiro Koshinaka 7/30/84 w/ Espectro Jr vs El Faraon & La Fiera 8/12/84 vs Gran Cochise 9/14/84 w/ MS-1 & Especto Jr vs Atlantis, Tony Salazar & Ringo Mendoza 9/28/84 vs Super Astro 10/26/84 There are only 9 matches in this run but each one tells an important story. The Chicana match is a gritty title match the day after Chicana worked arguably the best match of all time in an incredibly bloody brawl. This match highlights Satanico’s ability to build drama through mat work, selling and possibly the best facial expressions in all of wrestling. The 9/30 trios is a short wild brawl with several feuds intertwining. The match highlights Satanico’s ability to standout in a crazy environment and shows him in his role as leader of Los Infernales. The Atlantis match shows Satanico’s ability to take a green worker with obvious talents and build a terrific match where the young green wrestler looks like a world beater. The Lizmark match, while somewhere disappointing in my opinion still offers glimpses of Satanico’s brilliance working fast back and forth mat exchanges. The Koshinaka match shows Satanico’s ability to have a classic match with not only a young green worker but an unfamiliar foreign opponent who had far less obvious talent than Atlantis. The tag match looks really good and has Satanico selling a beatdown, but I found the VQ made the match pretty hard to assess overall The 9/28 Trios match is a terrific example of Satanico working in the focal point of a trios match role as the match is worked so Satanico vs Atlantis is the key matchup. It is terrific because he uses the back and forth mat wrestling exchanges to make Atlantis look good after using blood and guts to make him shine in their singles match together. The Super Astro singles match is similar to the Atlantis match but top rudo working against up and coming high flying masked tecnico is a very important role so it is great to have multiple examples. Like the Atlantis match, this is a great match. I saved the Gran Cochise match for last because it is the most important match of this particular run and quite possibly of Satanico’s entire career. It is his Flair/Steamboat from WrestleWar or Misawa/Kawada 6/3/94 or Jumbo/Tenryu 6/5/89, only instead of a bunch of matches building up to it, we only get the all time classic. It was just two wrestlers having an absolutely perfect match with no dives, no blood, no gimmicks. There aren’t 100 matches in this run but Satanico shows so much in the matches we do have. He shows an ability to work quick sprints, slow epics, bloody brawls, title matches with slow gritty mat work and matches with fast paced back and forth tumbling exchanges. You couldn’t ask for more out of 9 matches. I don’t really do star ratings but the Cochise match would have to be 5 stars and I would say the Chicana, Atlantis, Astro, Koshinaka, Mocho Cota Trios match and Tony Salazar trios match are all 4star or above. The tag match looks like it probably is but its hard to tell and the Lizmark match is just a notch below everything. So I don’t think he “just” shows variety in these matches I think he is showing variety in great matches. January 1989 – December 1990 When CMLL started airing weekly on TV in 88/89 Satanico was a featured player teaming with El Dandy. This is a really interesting run to watch because Satanico is working as a babyface for a large portion of this run before turning on El Dandy. Satanico adapts beautifully to working as a babyface and excels at the fast paced tumbling/rope running mat work exchanges that are a tecnico staple in trios matches. He even mixes in more highspots as tecnico’s typically hit the majority of the “WOW” spots in lucha. . You’ll see the very rare Satanico tope during this run and he does more 2nd rope and apron senton’s than he would as a heel. Another fun aspect of this run teaming with Dandy is that Satanico really comes across like a mentor to him which makes sense. Dandy had the sort of all around brilliance and technique that Satanico did while being a younger/flashier version. Satanico would set Dandy up for spots, lead double teams and put Dandy in position to be successful. You got the sense that Satanico was grooming El Dandy which made the turn that much more effective. I like to describe Satanico as a “Leader of Men” and you really see that in trios matches where he is guiding all of the action. This run with Dandy is a twist on that. Usually he’s leading men to the darkside, but with Dandy it seems like Satanico is trying to help him grow up and solidify himself as the new number 1 wrestler. The heel turn on Dandy leads to some absolutely classic matches. The 10/90 Super Libre and 12/90 Hair match are two of the best lucha brawls ever. This run is mostly about Satanico’s work with El Dandy, but there is some good stuff outside of that. Satanico has a classic all over the arena wild brawl with Sangre Chicana in May 1989 that is a great companion to their title match from 83 because they are two great matches worked completely differently. There is also a match with Jerry Estrada that I’ve gone back and forth on several times. The first time I watched it I didn’t like it at all, but the second time I watched it I absolutely loved it. The 3rd time I watched it I thought it was great match but not quite a MOTYC. If you’ve read this far you’ve either seen it and have your own opinion or you should go watch it yourself and decide. I lean towards thinking it was a great match. Regardless it is an example of a long match against a hit or miss opponent who has some clear positives. There are also the two tag matches with Satanico teaming with El Dandy & Atlantis respectively against MS-1 teaming with Masakre & Tierra Viento y Fuega. Those two matches are all about Satanico getting his ass kicked by MS-1 and having the double team/cheating tactics he perfected used against him by his greatest partner. People who hated the Flair vs Arn Anderson match from 95 would love the way MS-1 treats Satanico in those two matches. Satanico essentially plays Ricky Morton and is unbelievable in the role. This run overall is important because it shows Satanico working as a babyface in both brawls and technical trios matches before turning heel and churning out more absolutely epic matches. The partnership and turn on El Dandy sparked what became the feud of Satanico’s career (at least what we have on film) and produced some of the best matches in wrestling history. January 2001 – December 2001 This run is all about Satanico vs Ultimo Guerrero, Tarzan Boy, Rey Bucanero & eventually Mascara Magica. Satanico feuded with Tarzan Boy in 2000 and had been teaming with Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero as the new version of Satanico’s Los Infernales. Eventually Guerrero & Bucanero turned on Satanico and joined up with Tarzan Boy. This led to an absolutely fantastic series of weekly trios matches with Satanico and friends against the New Infernales. Really this run bleeds into 2002 as there are some awesome 2002 trios matches but I’ve always considered the Infierno en el Ring from 9/28/01 the real blowoff of the feud so I decided to split the difference. Satanico is still working at an extremely high level in 2002 but as 2001 comes to a close he starts to take a back seat as La Familia de Tijuana (Juvy, Nicho, Halloween, Damian 666 & eventually Rey Jr) came into CMLL and became the focus. This run was really all about Old Man Satanico getting beat up & pushed around by a bunch of young punks who thought they were hot shit. The matches were a series of fast paced hate filled brawls. They typically didn’t last very long but they were always a lot of fun. Even when Satanico was in matches not involving Guerrero, Tarzan Boy, etc, inevitably those guys would run in and have a hot brawl with Satanico. This all built to the Infierno en el Ring match that I’ve always thought was an absolute classic and one of the most brilliantly booked and worked storytelling matches of all time with the focus 100% on Satanico. Tenryu’s run in late 2000-01 was talked about at the time as a great “Old Man Run” but Satanico was an even older man having matches just as good if not better and that were just as athletically impressive (if not more so) than what Tenryu was doing. The great thing about this run was the consistency. You could pick any trios match from 2001-02 with Satanico & Friends against Ultimo Guerrero, Tarzan Boy & Rey Bucanero & eventually Mascar Magica and get you’re going to get at worst a “really fun short match” and more often than not a great TV match which built to an obvious MOTYC. I wanted to take some time to look at what was happening outside of these 3 peak Satanico runs. Pre September 1983 This is obviously the great unknown. I just wanted to point out that when Satanico shows up on tape in late September of 1983, he is already clearly a great worker. He is completely comfortable with his character and a master brawler, mat worker, seller etc. I have no doubt he had been great for years but there’s no way to prove it. There is no doubt in my mind that something like: El Satanico vs Sangre Chicana Hair vs Hair 6/82 (Satanico Wins) was a bonkers great match. There are probably dozens of matches like that. You don’t just wake up and be as good as Satanico was on 9/24/83. Between January 1991 and December 2000 After watching a ton of random stuff from this time period, I would highly encourage people to seek out 90s Satanico. When I was writing up the 89/90 run, I really thought about including 1991. 1991 has the all time classic Infernales vs Brazos trios match that is a traditional lucha title match style. An excellent match against the Guerreros which feels almost more like a US-Style territory tag match which makes sense given the Gurreros background. And then there is an Infernales vs Konnan/Rayo de Jalisco/El Dandy trios building to a Satanico/Dandy trios match that is an unbelievably great brawling trios match with Satanico playing leader of men ordering double teams and strutting around talking shit. 1991 also has a singles match against Octagon that is worth watching because Octagon is an absolutely dogshit worker who did nothing to add to the match and Satanico busts his ass and makes it good match with his brawling and charisma. The 1991 and 1992 Hair vs Hair matches against El Dandy are often viewed as a letdowns because they had such great matches in 1990. But if you watch 91 and 92 on their own, they’re both excellent matches and a feather in Satanicos’ cap. There are several other great Satanico singles matches during this time period. The 1993 match against Pirata Morgan is a classic bloodbath and easily one of the best brawls of the 90s. He has a title match against Pierroth from 92 or 93 (youtube isn’t sure) that is an absolutely classic mat based match with tremendous drama built around near submissions. It is a match basically worked to show Satanico is the ultimate mat wrestler because he took over every time Pierroth got too close. There is a fantastic title match against Lizmark from 9/17/93 that is more “exciting” and “spectacular” than the Pierroth one although they’re both MOTYCs. There is a really fun match from 2000 against Tarzan Boy that isn’t a MOYTC or even a great match but it is great to see Satanico building a match around a young worker’s athleticism and highspots as a 50 year old like he was doing in his prime against Atlantis and Super Astro. This period has a lot of fun, good, solid, very good, great, classic trios matches. There are several other classic Infernales matches from the early 90s in addition to the 3 mentioned previously (Well, I wouldn’t call the Guerreros match a classic, but it was very very good). Matches like Infernales vs Atlantis, Mascara Sagrada, & Lizmark from 3/13/92 or Infernales vs Los Hermans Dinamitas from 7/9/93 or Infernales vs Konnan, Dos Caras & Atlantis 12/91. There aren’t 25 classic Satanico’s singles matches in the 90s. But if you’re interested in watching his matches and focusing on his performances, he’s someone who will stand up to scrutiny. He will disappear at times when not the central point in trios matches like literally every luchadore ever…but it is was actually extremely rare that Satanico added nothing to the match. He was always either working the crowd or running interference and setting up double teams or a quick fast paced mat exchange etc. Any drop off in “quality” has 100% to do with booking./opportunity. If he was in the position to be the center piece of the match, he would step up and look like he was as good as ever. If he needed to be a backgournd player and let two other wrestlers advance their storyline, Satanico would always find a way to add substance to the match without going so overboard that he takes attention away from the other wrestlers who are the focus of the match. January 2002 – Present Day In 2002 Satanico really does continue his great run from 2001. Any time he pops up in trios matches he is still working at a high level. The promotion was just focusing on other things as opposed to 2001 when he was part of the major feud of the year. As the 2000s wear on and Satanico ages, he clearly starts to slow down which is understandable given his age. He continues to add substance and since his style was never really predicated on athleticism, his decline is much more gradual than many wrestlers. And honestly when given the opportunity to wrestle his style against great wrestlers like Solar, Black Terry, Negro Navarro and Blue Panther, Satanico was having very good matches in his early-mid 60s which is RIDICULOUS. Satanico even managed to have several good-very good matches with old man El Dandy in 2014 which is especially impressive because I don’t think Dandy aged as well as Black Terry, Navarro, Solar, & Panther. The super old man Satanico stuff doesn’t mean a lot in his case for GOAT, but there is actually some truly fun stuff from the guy as a 60+year old that is not only worth mentioning but is absolutely worth carving out time to watch. Versatility & Variety Discussion of the versatility of Satanico’s in ring work and character work as well as the variety of his opponents and settings. We have footage of Satanico in basically every setting possible in Lucha Libre. Brawls, technical matches, sprints, singles matches, trios matches, multi mans, gimmick matches, etc etc. In terms of his actual work in matches, El Satanico is a Nick Bockwinkel, Terry Funk, Buddy Rose, Barry Windham, Jushin Liger, Tatsumi Fujinami type that is able to be great at seemingly every single thing you could be great at. I suppose someone could say he didn’t do dives because Lucha is the land of dives, and even though I know it happened in more than one match, I could only name one match with absolute certainty that has Satanico doing a tope outside of the ring (The Estrada hair match from 1990 for those wondering). I could also only tell you one time off the top of my head that he jumped off the top rope (the 2001 Infierno en el Ring match). But he did have some big spots like his awesome senton from the 2nd rope or from the apron to the floor that always looked great. He could also had a really awesome headscissor take over he would do during back and forth tumbling exchanges. So the “he didn’t have great highspots” criticism doesn’t wreally work for me. I think he had great offense in general. And he was primarily a heel and heels in lucha shouldn’t really have a bunch of super flashy highspots so I would consider that potential criticism misguided anyway. Anyway, Satanico could genuinely do anything you could ask of him. Versatility of Singles Matches In spite of the obvious footage limitations, we actually have examples of Satanico in a pretty wide variety of great singles matches not only worked against different opponents but worked in different styles. He has a slick back and forth title match against Lizmark. There’s the gritty and intense mat work title matches against Chicana & Pierroth. There’s the beautiful mat epic against Gran Cochise. There’s a ton of variety in his brawls. There are examples of Satanico playing it straight at first and the match getting heated and escalating into a bloody hate filled match. There are matches were Stanico starts off smug and gloating only to get his comeuppance. There are matches were Satanico attacks his opponent before the bell and has to carry the majority of the match with his offense. There are matches where Satanico is working primarily from underneath. He has epic blade jobs and is also one of the most brutal “Working over a cut” wrestlers ever. He can even have a heated hair match without blood and find a way to make it great. He had very good to great singles matches against: Gran Cochise, Atlantis, Lizmark, Pirata Morgan, El Dandy, Shiro Koshinaka, Sangre Chicana, Super Astro, Pierroth, Jerry Estrada, Ultimo Guerrero, Blue Panther, and Tarzan Boy at a minimum with some people I’m probably forgetting. Versatility of Trios matches Really you can take everything said about the singles matches and it holds true in trios matches. You could add that he is great as the centerpiece of a trios match as a rudo and the centerpiece of a trios match as a tecnico. He is great at “directing traffic” and acting as “leader of men” as both rudo and tecnico either setting up double teams or setting up younger partners to succeed. Satanico also excelled as a background player in trios. He could easily slip into the role of guy #5 in a trios match who is primarily there to be a warm body while guys #1 & 2 work the storyline the match exists to advance. Since he could do everything, Satanico can play this role in brawls or technical trios matches and because he was so smart he could always find ways to add character and substance to his participation without stealing the spotlight from the main storyline. I specifically wanted to mention again the 3 trios matches from 1991 with the Infernales against Los Brazos, The Guerreros & Konnan/Rayo/El Dandy being 3 really great examples of Satanico having awesome trios mach performances in really differently worked matches. Standout Qualities What are some things El Satanico was great at? I wanted to mention a few things I think Satanico is really great at and if we were having a “Best wrestler at quality x” discussion Satanico would rank very high in several categories including: 1. Selling/Acting/Facial Expressions: I thought about separating these out, but they are really all tied together. Satanico is probably the best actor in all of wrestling. His interactions with his opponent, crowd, ref, teammates, etc are always just so perfect and on point. The Sangre Chicana match from 1983 is a must watch if only for Satanico’s unbelievably great facial expressions. He is a master at selling physical pain but also emotion, confidence, disdain, fear, relief, etc etc. He was a master at emoting clearly but not being ridiculously over the top with it. 2. Brawling: Satanico is unquestionably one of the best brawlers ever. He has the “great matches” in this category to match practically anybody not to mention variety of opponents, and when you start to consider 6 mans just a general variety of brawling matches. He was great in long slow paced brawls built on drama and emotion or quick fast paced balls to the walls insane brawls. He wasn’t just excellent at projecting hate and intensity through aggression (though he was AWESOME at that), but he was able to work his overconfident “best in the world/el numero uno” character into his brawls as well giving them more substance and character. 3. Mat Wrestling: Fuck was Satanico a great mat wrestler. Similar to “brawling” Satanico could do a lot with mat work. He could work super fast paced smooth lightening exchanges or work gritty hard hitting almost William Regal with a lucha twist mat work matches that were slower paced but high on drama. Satanico was great at leading younger workers like Atlantis in the 80s through these fast paced exchanges and he was awesome against a peer like Sangre Chicana. 4. Bleeding: Satanico was a great bleeder. Maybe no the all time best bleeder, but he was great at working his opponents cut and he was willing to bleed buckets. He also had one of the best blood related spots in wrestling when he was busted open he would wipe his hands on his bloody face, get enraged that his opponent made him bleed and wildly attack them. It is such a great spot it almost single handedly gets Satanico on my “best bleeders” list. But when you combine little small touches like that to his already incredible selling and facial expressions, he’s an easy “best bleeder” pick. Projection of Character How did Satanico project himself through his work as a rudo, aging tecnico and a leader of men? Satanico was excellent as projecting his character. He called himself “El Numero Uno” and that referred to him being the best wrestler “number one.” He would back this claim up with his incredibly polished mat wrestling. It was obvious he knew every hold and reversal, but he also knew every dirty trick in the book. He was known not only for dishing out low-blows but faking low-blows to get his opponent disqualified. As a tecnico he would do many of the same things he did as a rudo only to cheers. The main difference is that he was using them as comeback spots while working from underneath instead of using his cheapshots as a rudo working over a beloved young flashy babyface. He would often allow himself to get double-teamed and have the crap kicked out of him in ways very similar to what he had been doing to tecnicos for years. He was getting a taste of his own medicine finally only the crowd didn’t want it to happen. Aside from being a rudo or tecnico, Satanico was also a Leader of Men. He was always the leader of the stable Los Infernales, but this role carried on even when he wasn’t working with regular tag team partners. Satanico had a knack for projecting himself as the leader of his group which was impressive because he was usually teaming with great workers like Pirata Morgan or MS-1 but Satanico still managed to stand out. He was always the one calling the shots encouraging double teams, keeping the other opponents at bay, jaw jacking at the crowd while his underlings did the dirty work only for Satanico to turn around and get in some slaps and punches. This makes you hate MS-1 and Pirata for being soliders but it really makes you want to see Satanico get his ass kicked. He carries this over as a tecnico also. I talked a little bit about how he seemed to be mentoring El Dandy before the big turn & feud in 1990, and you can see that especially in the brilliant Infierno en el Ring match when he passes up an opportunity to save his own hair when he realizes he needs to save one of his young boys from losing his mask. What are some Criticisms of Satanico’s #1 Case? There are some criticisms I wanted to at least bring up in the sake of fairness. 1. Lack of footage from his athletic peak: I can understand this if you are someone that HAS to have week in week out matches but I think the quality of matches, variety of opponents, and variety of work is enough that it overcomes that sheer lack of volume. If the argument is “it isn’t enough matches to see how good he is” when there is that much variety within the few matches we do have than it seems like to me the implication is that there is no way to prove he had any other good matches other than those and I just find that to be pretty preposterous. 2. Lack of all time great feuds outside of El Dandy & Ultimo Guerreo & Friends: This is a very real criticism and I get it actually. Part of this is footage as looking at his hair match list, it is pretty obvious to me that Sangre Chicana is probably on par with El Dandy as a great Satanico opponent. But we don’t have those early 80s hair matches. I do think the El Dandy feud is arguably a top 10 feud of all time and while the Ultimo Guerrero feud isn’t on that level, it is definitely a great feud and a crowning achievement for Satanico. But the lack of all time great feuds/rivalries is a definite disadvantage compared to people like Flair, Tenryu, Funk, Hansen, aka the other GOAT contenders. 3. Not as flashy/dynamic as other luchadores: I guess I get it as a criticism but it is pretty weak. Satanico is more about substance. I’ve never actually seen anyone say this, but I can see how someone might say it or think it so I did feel it was worth addressing. 4. Only ever “got over” in Mexico: Not something that matters to me. 5. Disappointing series with Lizmark besides the great 9/93 match. It feels like these two should have had a better series of matches, but they did manage to hit it out of the park once. People often cite HBK/Bret Hart “rivalry” as a plus for both guys even though all their matches sucked. Satanico and Lizmark actually had a great match once so that’s something. But yeah, definitely should have been a better series here. 6. Dog shit match against Kato Kung Lee that was so bad I won’t look up the date or my notes which are in this very thread. But it was baaaaaaaad. 7. OJ once said Satanico doesn’t really work hard against wrestlers he doesn’t respect and considers bad wrestlers. Maybe that’s what was happening in the Kato Kung Lee match, but I honestly don’t ever recall seeing this happen. The most obvious “oh it’ll be in this match” example I figured was going to be that Octagon match from 91 and that match was really good because Satanico went out of his way to make it really good. I respect OJ’s opinion and wanted to mention that critique I’ve seen him make, but I’m not sure I’ve seen the matches he’s referring to when he says that, unless hat Kato Kung Lee match is one of them. Odds and Ends This is just going to be last minute quick hitting things that help make El Satanico totally fucking awesome that I wanted to be sure to mention. Some of these will be silly but wrestling is silly His name is El Satanico. That is cool by itself. His nickname is “El Numero Uno.” His signature standing figure 4 leglock pin is called “El Nudo” If you go to luchawiki and look at his page some of his signature moves are Low Blows and Faking Low Blows. He LOOKS like a Mexican Drug Lord. He will come to the ring with a valet dressed up in a devil costume carrying a pitchfork for big matches. There is a video online of him possessing a pretty lady to freak out Ultimo Guerrero in 2001. During the 10/90 Super Libre (No DQ) match against El Dandy, Satanico, rips out El Dandy’s armpit hair and blows the hair up into the air. It is amazing. Essential Matches What are the 10 El Satanico matches to get a decent overview of his career? What are the best hair matches, title matches, trios matches? 10 Essential Matches 1. El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse 9/14/84 2. El Satanico vs El Dandy Hair vs Hair 12/14/90 3. El Satanico vs Pirata Morgan Hair vs Hair 11/26/93 4. El Satanico, Mephisto, and Averno vs Ultimo Guerrero, Tarzan Boy, Rey Bucanero, and Masara Magica “Infierno en el Ring” 9/28/01 5. El Satanico vs El Dandy 10/26/90 6. Los Infernales vs Los Brazos 11/22/91 7. El Satanico & Atlantis vs MS-1 & Tierra Viento y Fuego Hair/Mask vs Hair/Mask 9/22/89 8. El Satanico vs Atlantis 1984 9. El Satanico vs Pierroth 1992 10. El Satanico vs Sangre Chicana 9/24/83 5 Absolute Best Singles Matches 1. El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse 2. El Satanico vs El Dandy Hair vs Hair 12/14/90 3. El Satanico vs Pirata Morgan Hair vs Hair 11/26/93 4. El Satanico vs Sangre Chicana 5/26/89 5. El Satanico vs El Dandy 10/26/90 5 Essential Trios Matches 1. Los Infernales vs Los Brazos 11/22/91 2. El Satanico, MS-1 & Ken Timbs vs El Dandy, Sangre Chicana, & Ringo Mendoza 11/16/90 3. El Satanico, MS-1, Espectro Jr vs Sangre Chicana, La Fiera, El Faraon 9/30/83 4. El Satanico, Pirata Morgan & MS-1 vs La Fiera, El Faraon & El Egipico 5. El Satanico, Pirata Morgan & MS-1 vs Atlantis, Lizmark & Mascara Sagrada 3/13/92 5 Essential Multi Man Matches 1. Infierno en el Ring 9/28/01 2. Satanico & Atlantis vs MS-1 & Tierra Viento y Fuego Hair/Mask vs Hair/Mask 3. El Satanico & El Dandy vs MS-1 & Masakre 4. El Satanico & El Dandy vs Atlantis & Angel Azteca 6/15/90 5. El Satanico & Solar vs Negro Navarro & Black Terry 3/5/11 5 Essential Hair Matches/Brawls That Aren’t On the 5 Best Singles Match List 1. El Satanico vs Super Astro 10/26/84 2. El Satanico vs Atlantis 1984 3. El Satanico vs Shiro Koshinaka 7/30/84 4. El Satanico vs Jerry Estrada 3/23/90 5. El Satanico vs El Dandy 12/6/91 & 9/92 5 Essential Title Matches That Aren’t on the 5 Best Singles Matches List 1. El Satanico vs Sangre Chicana 9/24/83 2. El Satanico vs Pierroth 1992 or 93 3. El Satanico vs El Dandy 3/2014 4. El Satanico vs Lizmark 9/17/83 5. El Satanico vs Blue Panther 7/25/15 Hidden Gems What are some great less talked about Satanico matches? 1. El Satanico, Negro Navarro & Black Terry vs Blue Panther, Solar & Super Astro 11/27/13 2. El Satanico, Psicosis, & La Parkavs El Hijo del Santo, Angel Azteca & Super Muneco (No date, on youtube) 3. El Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr & Kamala vs Atlantis, El Dandy & Rayo de Jalisco Jr 8/3/91 4. El Satanico, MS-1 & Pirata Morgan vs Los Hermanos Dinamitas 7/9/93 5. El Satanico, Pirata Morgan, Mascara Ano 2000 vs El Dandy, Sangre Chicana, El Faraon 11/12/90 6. El Satanico, Emilio Charles & Black Warrior vs Atlantis, Lizmark & El Dandy 3/15/97 7. El Satanico, MS-1 & Pirata Morgan vs Konnan, Dos Caras & Atlantis 12/91 8. El Satanico, Apollo Dantes & Dr Wagner Jr vs Perro Aguayo, Ringo Mendoza & Emilio Charles Jr 2000 9. El Satanico, MS-1 & Espectro Jr vs Atlantis, Ringo Mendoza & Tony Salazar 9/28/84 10. El Satanico vs Ultimo Guerrero 2001 So in summary, watch this motherfucker!

El Hijo del Santo is #4 overall for me. Rey Jr is somewhere between 10&20. Steamboat and Morton are top 30. Atlantis is probably top 50. Tito will be in the 50-70 range probably.

European stuff is my top priority for 2026.

In the tag team thread "Los Infernaros" should be "Los Infernales" and I assume are the El Satanico/MS-1/Pirata Morgan version.

Who are you thinking about Matt?

I have 54 people competing for my last 6 spots.