elliott

I wanted to make a list of all the matches I haven't been able to find in the hopes that someone can point me to stuff I've overlooked or missed. Also if I could get some guidance on those RINGS matches. I'm pretty sure the Frank Shamrock match is a shoot. Are there any other likely shoots from that list so I can cross them off and feel ok about not watching them? UWF 2.0 Tamura vs Shigeo Miyato 9/7/89 Tamura vs Akira Maeda 10/25/89 Tamura vs Masahiko Kakihara 12/1/90 UWFi Tamura vs Gene Lydick 1/16/95 Tamura vs Billy Scott 4/19/96 One or two Tamura vs Sakuraba matches. Honestly not sure which one's. I've found 2 videos online, but they may be the same match. I'll hopefully know more when I watch them. But for curious souls, here are the two Tamura vs Sakuraba matches I was able to find. The first one is definitely 3/1/96. and Since I'm trying to watch everything in order, it'll be a while before I figure out if it's the same match or different. Anyway, moving on to RINGS where I'm missing the most matches sadly. Missing RINGS: Tamura vs Chris Haseman 4/4/97 Tamura vs Grom ZaZa 5/23/97 Tamura vs Hans Nyman 8/13/97 Tamura vs Elvis Sinosic 10/14/97 Possible Shoot Tamura vs Joop Kasteel 11/20/97 Tamura vs Sergei Sousserov 3/3/98 Tamura vs Dick Leon-Vrij 3/28/98 Tamura vs Wataru Sakata 7/20/98 Tamura vs Masayuki Naruse 8/28/98 Tamura vs Vladimir Klementiev 10/23/98 11/20/98 Mega Battle Team Tournament with Tamura vs Andrei Kopilov and Nikolai Zouev Tamura vs Kenichi Yamamoto 11/23/98 Tamura vs Kohsaka 1/23/99 Tamura vs Overeem 2/21/99 Tamura vs Frank Shamrock 4/23/99 Shoot Tamura vs Bitsaze Tariel 5/22/99 Tamura vs Joop Kasteel 8/19/99 Tamura vs Dave Menne 12/22/99 Shoot Tamura vs Boris Jeliazkov 12/22/99 Shoot

So, I think Kiyoshi Tamura is awesome, but I’m not really sure just how awesome. My knee jerk reaction over the years has always been that I think Volk Han is better and I always liked Maeda more even while recognizing that Tamura was probably better. And after watching a shit load of Fujiwara I would comfortably call him the best shoot style worker. But I’ve been thinking about Tamura recently. He’s an interesting wrestler to think about for the GWE poll because he didn’t wrestle 100s of matches per year, didn’t travel internationally, and only worked one (very) niche style (albeit a style most people consider extremely difficult) but is universally considered a master of his style. What the fuck do we do with a candidate like Tamura? His matches with Volk Han, Kohsaka, and Vader have always been some of my favorites since I first saw them 15years ago and in all the different stuff I’ve watched recently against guys like Yamamoto, Kakihara, etc a theme started to develop…Kiyoshi Tamura is really fucking good. So I started poking around youtube and dailymotion to see what was out there. I noted all the Tamura matches that made the yearbooks and wrote down their disc# for easy access. I started to realize that for a guy who didn’t work a ton of matches, I seemed to have easy access to a fuckload of them. I looked at http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com and searched for all the Tamura matches I could find from his debut in May 1989 for UWF2.0 all the way up through 1999 RINGS. I stopped there because I’m pretty sure 2000 is when RINGS started moving to all shoots or mostly shoots in 2000. I am 99% sure that the Frank Shamrock draw from 1999 was a shoot so I’m not counting that. In all, I found that between UWF2.0, UWFi, and RINGS, Tamura had 99 matches from 5/89 through 12/99. Between the Yearbooks, Youtube, and DailyMotion, I have all of Tamura’s matches except for 25 or 26 of them. Sadly most of the 25 or 26 matches I’m missing are from RINGS which is a huge bummer. But still, having 73 or 74 matches out of 99 is easily the highest percentage of matches from someone’s career that I’m going to get. So I figured what the fuck, lets watch all of them. Since I’m blatantly ripping off Phil Schneider’s “Complete and Accurate” title, I will make this a complete and accurate rip off by using his EPIC, GREAT, FUN, and SKIPPABLE rating system. UWF 2.0 Kiyoshi Tamura vs Minoru Suzuki 5/21/89 This is actually Tamura’s debut match which is cool to have. He’s already got the red trunks. Tamura excites the crowd right away. His first kick to the chest is so fast and so hard there’s a loud “OOOHHHHHHHHH” and Tamura follows it up with a lightening fast knee before getting caught in a bodyslam after attempting another high kick. It’s the very first sequence of Tamura’s career and the crowd is buzzing. Tamura again gets the crowd buzzing when Suzuki has his leg up and Tamura rolls through to attempt a leg submission that you’ll see him nail in the future. The opening sequences have Tamura pretty overzealous with strikes. He has been throwing a lot and hits some but ends up getting caught eventually. Suzuki has more success with submissions but Tamura is a striking machine in this. He shows some ability to get out of holds and he has the speed/agility to avoid takedowns, but he is definitely going for strikes more than submissions thus far. When they’re in close or on the ground, Suzuki tends to be in control. This is a short match. 5minutes 30 seconds long to be exact. And it has a 19 year old in his debut. But FUCK is this something everyone should watch. It probably isn’t the best sub 6minute match but I can’t imagine very many guys look as good as Tamura in their debut. Tamura’s striking is there from Day 1. He throws unbelievably quick combos with both legs and both hands. All of his strikes LOOK really fucking good. He doesn’t show much in the way of submission work here. We all know he will turn into one of the greats on the mat and defensively there are some snippets you can see. Most of it is in countering through submission attempts or simply trying to avoid a takedown. You can see great potential in Tamura from his very first match. FUN Kiyoshi Tamura vs Shigeo Miyato 8/13/89 Tamura’s 2nd ever match. Crowd is buzzing at the start of this. Again this starts off with Tamura throwing some really good looking strikes until getting caught and slammed. Miyato is way more willing to try and kick Tamura in the face than Suzuki was trying to do in the last match. So this could turn into a standing battle. Tamura is again slowed down when they get close or go to the mat. Tamura takes some wicked bumps on hip tosses and slams by the way. You don’t really think of bumping in shoot style, but Tamura was certainly capable. Tamura is more successful against Miyato than Suzuki in terms of takedown attempts and maybe starting to think about trying for a submission. But Miyato tends to reverse things pretty easily when they’re on the ground but he can’t put Tamura away. Nice pop when Tamura actually sinks in his first submission attempt but Miyato is able to reverse it pretty easily forcing Tamura to go for the ropes. Tamura isn’t able to counter every submission. He’s been able to counter out of a few, he kicked his way out of one and has gone 2 rope breaks. It’s pretty clear at this early stage he’s still “learning” on the mat but his speed, agility, and striking are able to keep him from being totally eaten alive out there. Right as I say he’s “learning” on the mat, a minute or so goes by and he hits a beautiful flipping cross armbreaker. Miyato manages to reverse out of it but for the first time in his career Tamura is REALLY on the offensive. He hits some killer knees and a judo throw and a sub attempt. AWESOME spot where Tamura goes for another throw but Miyato just grabs him and kills him with a suplex. Tamura is knocked silly. He makes a valiant attempt to throw some strikes and keep momentum, but Miyato is able to destroy him getting repeated knockdowns with kicks and knees to the chest. Miyato checks on Tamura afterwards. This match goes 9 minutes and fucking rocked. EPIC There’s a 5minute long rematch on 9/7 that unfortunately isn’t online but I’d love to see it. Luckily the 4th match in Tamura’s career is and is against an old favorite… Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoji Anjoh 9/30/89 Tamura is going for subs early and often in this as they stay on the mat to begin with. Anjoh is able to reverse Tamura’s attempts pretty easily but Tamura looks much more confident in his ground game already. Its Anjoh that throws the first hard knee strike in this. I almost get the feeling that Anjoh is baiting Tamura into going for strikes. Everytime Tamura goes for a strike, Anjoh is waiting for it, grabs Tamura and throws some nasty strikes (usually hard knees) of his own before taking things back down to the mat. Tamura really starts to show his ground skills in this but from a kayfabe persecptive Anjoh really has an easy time countering and reversing most of it. Tamura is able to reverse some of Anjoh’s sub attempts, but still has to make several rope breaks. Tamura finally has a little flurry of success striking before Anjoh cuts him off and just starts killing him with strikes. Tamura tries the flipping cross armbreaker again but it doesn’t look great. He does lock in the armbreaker though and Anjoh has to make for the ropes. Seriously, Anjoh is just killing him with knee strikes in this and gets a knockdown with a nasty headbutt. Everytime Tamura tries to make a comeback and make something happen, the crowd is waiting to explode but Anjoh is really just too much for him. Tamura gets a really nice “OOOHHHHHHHHH” reaction when he’s able to counter out of a rear naked choke, but Anjoh is able to lock in a toe lock for the sub. This was like the greatest squash match in history. Anjoh is a beast and Tamura is a straight up prodigy. EPIC. Tamura’s 5th match is 2minutes 2seconds against Maeda on 10/25/89 which isn’t online even though 3 of the other 5 matches from the show are (and the 4th is a 30 min draw with a dude named MacDuff Roesch that I can only assume is terrible) online in full. Annoying. I would LOVE to see Maeda murder Tamura for less than two and a half minutes. But alas. UPDATE Thanks to GOTNW, we have this match and it is everything you could hope for. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Akira Maeda 10/25/89 Tamura comes out absolutely firing. He is throwing crazy fast slapping/kick combos at Maeda trying to do whatever he can to put the boss down. Maeda manages to snag a leg and take Tamura down for a quick submission leading Tamura to roll desperately towards the ropes. He’s slow getting up and limping to sell the quick early damage. Back standing and Tamura continues to try and strike with Maeda so Maeda decides to teach the kid a lesson and starts throwing the hardest knees to the face/chest in a wrestling match that I have ever seen. It is completely ridiculous. Maeda beats Tamura so badly in this he gets a knockdown 10 count off of a rope break. Tamura actually attempts a dropkick in this. Anything to stay alive. This only seems to piss Maeda off more as he continues with the hardest knees in the history of wrestling for a KO. This is the greatest two minute match in history and maybe the greatest squash in history. If you like watching dudes get kneed in the face really fucking hard for the sake of pro wrestling, watch this shit. FUN Also pretty annoying is that he doesn’t actually show back up until December 1, 1990 where he scores his first win over Masahito Kakihara in 15minutes with a TKO. I ALSO can’t find that match online, which is ALSO pretty fucking annoying. This complete and accurate is getting less complete and accurate by the match (I learned from watching you, Phil). Edit: Well, I ended up getting this match so here's my review! Kiyoshi Tamura vs Masahito Kakihara 12/1/90 Finally recovered from Maeda breaking his face in October 1989, Tamura returns in tme to work his 6th match ever (and Kakihara’s 4th) as the opener on the final UWF2.0 card. This is a really interesting match to watch considering the experience level of the wrestlers and knowing Tamura is just back from a major injury. This is also really cool to see because it is the first opportunity to watch Tamura work a match of any real length as it runs 14:58. All of his matches have been good up to this point, but this is the longest one by far and he’s working against an even less experienced wrestler so he doesn’t have a veteran to lean on. So its hard not to call this a great match when thinking about it in those conditions. These two aren’t nearly as good as they would become and you can see that obviously. They aren’t even as fast or explosive as they would be in the years to come. Tamura isn’t nearly as polished or technically perfect as he would become and I think both guys got blown up at times. But honestly. This was pretty remarkable considering the experience level. For all I’ve said about being able to see Tamura’s potential in these early matches, this is really the best example of that. He’s already leading a younger worker in this match. Feeding him openings like Kakihara’s choke after a Tamura throw or the way Tamura leans into Kakihara’s spin kick to make sure he gets him just right. The way Tamura sells the spin kick and then milks every last second of the 10 count is just fucking perfect. Tamura keeps the match moving along and is already full of interesting and creative counters to submissions. His striking has been great from day one and this is awesome because you get to see him mad. Early on he has an easy time with Kakihara taking him down, locking in submissions etc. Finally Kakihara gets fed up and just starts blasting Tamura’s previously broken face. So Tamura’s like “ok you wanna strike, lets strike” and then he just annihilates Kakihara. Again neither guy, Tamura included, is the striker they would become, but in Tamura’s case I think its more of a stamina issue just coming back because he’s pretty amazing in flurries already. Anyway, this was really amazing to watch. Its not a MOTYC or anything and in terms of a “pure shoot style” match, this isn’t something I’d recommend to OJ. But I think Soup would really like this match. Soup, watch this fucking match! GREAT However, we do have the next match in Tamura’s career from 5/10/91 in a rematch against Kakihara as the first match on the first ever UWFi card. Does anyone know what Tamura was doing from 10/25/89-5/10/91 excluding the one match on 12/1/90? Was he hurt? Was he training? I get that the 2nd half of that gap is due to the splintering of the UWF into the 3 new shoot style feds. But what was he doing from 10/89 through 12/90? I would love for the answer to be something like “Oh he was ‘touring’ overseas. There’s footage of him in Texas as Samurai Tamura against Eric Embry or something ridiculous like that. But I assume he was “training” or Maeda beat him into a year long hibernation. UWFi Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Masahito Kakihara (UWFI 5/10/91) First match from the 1st UWFi show. This is the 7th match of Tamura’s career. Kakihara has only just debuted on August 31, 1990 and this is his 5th match. It is also worth noting that Kakihara turned 19 just 12 days before this match. Since Tamura is a few years older and debuted earlier, we get to see Tamura be more successful in takedowns and getting closer to locking in submissions much more easily in this compared to his prior matches. He looks quite good defensively avoiding takedowns and selling the effectiveness of Kakihara’s wicked striking. In the early going, the roles are flipped from Tamura’s previous matches. Instead of relying mostly on his striking for offense, he’s going more for takedowns and submission attempts. Early on Kakihara is fairly outclassed by Tamura on the mat so he uses crazy fast striking combos to gain the advantage. There’s a really great sequence early on where Kakihara is just rocking Tamura with strikes and Tamura is covering up trying not to get KO’d, then before you realize it, Tamura is diving in for a doubleleg takedown and locks on a submission causing a rope break. Tamura is already really really good on the mat. He’s not quite as smooth as he is later in his prime, but we’re finally getting the chance to see him work with some variety on the mat. There are some great examples of him using his grappling offensively and defensively. He looks sharp going in for takedowns and working towards submissions and there are great moments of him avoiding/reversing takedowns and submission attempts. I’ve talked a lot about Tamura’s mat work in this because it has been the first chance to see him show a lot on the mat, but it definitely should be mentioned that he is still an incredible striker. His punches/slaps to the head/body, kicks to the knee/body/head, knees to the body/chest, and ground strikes are ALL delivered with incredible speed, accuracy and stiffness. He tends to give more to Kakihara in the striking exchanges to make the match better but you can tell from watching this that Tamura is already world class when it comes to striking with great speed, accuracy and variety. Finishing run in this is terrific. Kakihara seemed to have trouble both defending a submission while looking for his own at the same time. So when he finally reverses an ankle lock with one of his own the crowd pops huge for it. But he got a teensy bit cocky and tried to drag Tamura into the center of the ring away from the ropes but Tamura was able to reverse it leaving Kakihara nowhere to go. This is fucking awesome. Find me a match as good as this where the participants have 10 combined matches and I will call you a liar. EPIC. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Tom Burton 6/6/91 Oh, English commentary sweet. Here’s our first Tamura vs Gaijin match. Commentary talking about Burton’s weight advantage and Tamura being known for his speed, skill, and agility and if that will be enough to overcome the weight advantage. So doing my job for me so far. Tamura uses a lot of leg kicks trying to keep his distance. When Burton closes the distance he throws some hard knees and is going for suplexes. Tamura is awesome escaping them here and there and using his speed to avoid getting squashed. Burton gets ahead quickly going for submissions attempts and forcing Tamura to go for the ropes. Everytime he gets to close, Burton is tossing him using his strength to lock in submissions. They do a really good job getting over the size difference with Burton taking the advantage everytime Tamura gets to close. Tamura is constantly changing it up trying different strikes and trying to keep moving constantly. Tamura manages to get a quick submission with a cross armbreaker after flipping out of a Fujiwara armbar. This was way better than I expected. They really told the same story like 5 times in a row in a 9 minute match but they went about telling it different ways every time. FUN (Commentary is not very good by the way) Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoji Anjoh 7/3/91 Our next match is Tamura vs an old favorite in Yoji Anjoh. They’ve had a match before on 9/89 that I described as the greatest squash match ever. So this will be a good opportunity to see Tamura’s growth. Immediate difference from the 89 match as Tamura is able to score a couple of quick takedowns with ease. Crowd is already super hot and the opening back and forth grappling is so fast at times early on that the thought crosses my mind that the film has been sped up (it hasn’t been). The big difference from Tamura now and Tamura’s first few matches in 89 is that Tamura is MUCH better defensively and countering out of submissions in order to create offense instead of going for the ropes right away. Although Anjoh is obviously good enough to get Tamura in peril and force several rope breaks, Tamura is much more likely to first look to counter before making a play for the ropes. Tamura really uses his speed and agility to counter and escape from submissions while Anjoh is a little bit slower but a little more forceful and rough with his counter attempts. Tamura gracefully rolls out of a Fujiwara armbar attempt while with an Anjoh counter, you’re more likely to catch an elbow in the face. Tamura is REALLY showing his ground skills in this. There are some absolutely breathtaking exchanges here both on the mat and standing and striking. Anjoh has more success the more striking exchanges they have. Tamura definitely has some awesome flurries but he is again mostly working towards submissions. Anjoh’s ground game is more successful as the match moves along because he’s started to weaken/slow Tamura down a bit with his brutal knee lifts. At one point, Anjoh is working on a toe lock and Tamura finally kind of snaps and just starts blasting Anjoh with knees and slaps which is just awesome. Fired up Tamura throwing everything he’s got at someone is one of the most exciting moments in wrestling. His speed is just indescribable. Anjoh is ahead on points most of the way (He’s 5 points ahead at the moment of Tamura’s flurry), but he lets Tamura shine so much throughout the match that he seems closer to evenly matched than you would think just looking at the points. As the match builds, Anjoh definitely starts to have an easier time than he did at the beginning. Tamura is able to keep him working by moving around and constantly working for counters, but Anjoh’s strikes REALLY start to take their toll and Tamura starts to rely more and more on making it to the ropes as Anjoh starts to rack up the points. This ends up with Anjoh WAY ahead on points and getting a decisive victory with one of the nastiest looking single leg boston crabs you’re ever going to see. Although Anjoh decisively won, Tamura comes out of this looking really great. He was definitely worn down eventually by Anjoh’s knees and submission attempts, but he more than held his own throughout. From a kayfabe perspective, Tamura needs to work on his striking defense. His technique is already there in terms of knowing all the holds and counters and you get the sense that if he protected himself a little bit more throughout the match he’d have enough stamina to keep up towards the end. This is a fucking awesome match. Easy EPIC. Kiyoshi Tamura and Nobuhiko Takada vs. Yoji Anjoh and Jim Boss 7/30/91 This is the first tag match of Tamura’s career. Prowrestlinghistory.com tells me that the match went 31 minutes but I can only find 21minute long videos. Is prowrestlinghistory.com wrong or are all the versions clipped up? Jim Boss looks like Hank from Twin Peaks with a poor man’s Tom Selleck mustache so I’m sold already. Tamura and Anjoh start this off which, after the last match, is exactly what I want. Opening is almost like the shoot style version of a lucha trios opening with crazy fast back and forth mat work. Seriously, these two are scary fast in there against each other. I feel like Anjoh probably doesn’t get the love he deserves as a mat wrestler because most people tend to think of him as an ass stomping charismatic prick. But that dude can GO on the mat. Both guys tag out without establishing much beyond “FUCK THESE GUYS ARE FAST.” Neither guy really puts the other in a sense of peril. Jim Boss throwing side kicks for some reason is REALLY funny to me. He reminds me of Rex from Napoleon Dynamite. “You think anyone wants to take a roundhouse kick to the face while I’m wearing these bad boys? Forget about it.” The announcers are literally laughing at Boss throwing kicks. The grappling in the Takada/Boss segment is not as enjoyable as Tamura/Anjoh. Tamura tags in and Boss immediately walks over to tag Anjoh back in. OK! Deal! The match immediately picks back up, and honestly, the crowd immediately reacts. You get the sense of that old cliché about Japanese wrestling during the first Takada/Boss segment that the fans are watching intently, patiently and quietly until they do something exciting. Tamura and Anjoh are doing something exciting everytime they get near each other and the crowd responds in kind. (sidenote, I LOVE the announcers talking about this as “REAL PRO WRESTLING” in the middle of a freaking tag match.) They get over what they were doing in the last singles match. Tamura is a prodigy on the mat and is able to lock in a submission, which forces Anjoh to go for the ropes. When they’re back standing, Anjoh is starts demolishing Tamura with knee’s forcing a knockdown and a 9 count. But Tamura is able to take Anjoh down again and drags him over to the corner and tags in Takada. They have a really nice strike exchange between the two with Takada able to block everything and fire back before hitting a nice suplex leading to Anjoh tagging out. They talk about Jim Boss being a black belt in Tae Kwan Do which I find hard to believe (or is totally meaningless given his technique) and I’m literally laughing out loud thinking about Rex Kwan Do. Perfect. Takada gets a knockdown and tags out to Tamura so we get our first chance to see Tamura vs Rex Kwan Do. Tamura mostly keeps his distance going for low kicks and any sort of opening for striking. He manages to force Boss back into his corner with his rapid fire strikes and Anjoh tags back in. They go back to the mat pretty quickly and it is predictably good. Tamura is really good at rolling with his opponent defensively, using Anjoh’s own momentum and turning it against him to create a submission opening. Tamura forces a rope break on a single leg crab before tagging out to Takada. Takada has a pretty easy time with Anjoh. Quickly locking in a submission leading to a rope break and scoring a knockdown with a hard knee. Obviously Takada is the Ace of the promotion while Anjoh is much lower ranked. So it’s a good job of establishing that Takada doesn’t need to do much to put Anjoh in peril. After the knockdown, both guys tag out so we get Tamura/Boss matched up again very very briefly before Tamura tags back out to Takada and Boss tags back out to Anjoh. Anjoh throws some incredible strike combinations which actually leads to a knockdown. Crowd is super hot for Anjoh taking it to Takada but Takada is able to reverse fortunes pretty quickly and starts blasting Anjoh. They tag out and we’re back to Boss/Tamura. Tamura really outclasses Boss on the mat but it putdown by a HUGE roundhouse kick to the face (told Tamura he didn’t want that). Boss shows some fire finally and scores a knockdown on Tamura. Tamura does a really great job selling Boss’s (comparatively) pansy ass strikes until Boss tags back out to Anjoh. I seriously cannot get over how fast Tamura and Anjoh are against each other. Anjoh ends up taking this with a Fujiwara armbar. This is pretty much what you would expect coming in. Tamura and Anjoh are fucking awesome against each other. It is decidedly less awesome when they tag out. Takada and Boss really don’t do a hell of a lot in this but that’s a good thing. FUN Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yuko Miyato 8/24/91 Yuko Miyato is Shigeo Miyato. So even though Tamura has still had less than a dozen matches in his career, we get to see him against a familiar opponent. Opening grappling is what you come to expect. Tamura is insanely fast and constantly moving around looking for an opening. jdw always used to describe Takada as a “thinking man’s wrestler” back in the day. He would talk about how Takada always “looked” like he was calmly thinking about his next submission attempt or counter. (This was John’s way of excusing Takada’s really boring sitting in holds mat work, but hey, it’s 2015 now and we don’t have to take his word for it anymore J ). Tamura is a REAL thinking man’s wrestler. He’s in constant motion on the mat looking for a free arm or leg to grab and twist. Takada’s “thinking man’s” approach was to sit around and sit around while Tamura’s approach was constantly moving around so his opponent doesn’t really know where the submission attempt is coming from. Tamura seems to really have Miyato outclassed on the mat. He keeps things competitive by going for a rope break and doing a good job selling coming out of rope breaks, but you can tell which one is the good hand and which one will develop into the stylistic master. Miyato is much more successful standing. Tamura does an excellent job putting over Miyato’s striking eating two knockdowns which leads to Miyato having the opening to lock in a single leg crab leading to a rope break. It’s a brief but important flurry to keep the match competitive and make Miyato look really good and rack up a big points advantage. Really nice work to the finish as Miyato is able to control with strikes but he works outside of himself and goes for a takedown which Tamura is able to easily reverse into a sleeper. Miyato is able to make a brief counter with an ankle lock but Tamura really has him where he wants him, locks on the sleeper and gets the win. The announcers put this over as a big upset and in a sense, it is because Miyato is more experienced. But watching these guys matchup, Tamura is clearly the more skilled wrestler. FUN

It isn't a playlist, but I found this channel that has a ton of Shoot Style. Most of it is 89-90 UWF and early UWFi shows but in the past week he's started uploading original UWF matches. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZzS6tSz5xTuHjw-dH_kkNw/videos

Total number of times I've seen these guys combined could probably be counted on 2 hands with fingers left over. But there is no way I could resist a match described as "meth-lab battlarts." This was really really really good. Thanks for sharing. Please recommend more (ALL!) stuff in this style.

Watched Satanico/Blue Panther/Negro Navarro vs Sangre Chicana/Charles Lucero/Pantro from 11/13/15 I actually dug this. Short match with lots of really good tricked out mat work and Satanico and Chicana rekindling their 30 year old feud and Sangre getting bloodied. Chicana looks ollllllld and actually kinda sad in this but everyone else looks really good.

Just watched this Satanico/Blue Panther/? vs Hijo del Sano/?/? 9/9/06. No idea who the other 3 guys are but with those 3, I don't need to know who the other 50% of the match is to watch it. This was a nice little trios by the numbers match. Tecnico's dominate the first fall, rudo's cheat and dominate the 2nd, and tecnico's comeback in the 3rd. This isn't earth shattering but it is a perfectly good match. Santo and Panther tend to be matched up together but we do get some Santo/Satanico interactions. And there's a good deal of Santo/Panther/Satanico in the ring working spots all together. Satanico is good in this and is really the main guy trying to build heat and getting the crowd riled up so it's a good example of smart old Satanico. Someone watch this and tell me who the other guys are.

Actually, I agree, Parv. Everyone should be watching Buddy Rose and Negro Casas instead of Kawada

I dunno that I would use the word "unrealistic" since doing stuff like that is kind of the whole point of this site and GWE project. How many Dory Jr matches have you watched to re-evaluate people calling him boring and awful? That someone would subject themselves to that strikes me as way more unrealistic (not to mention masochistic ) than deep diving on late era Kawada. I mean for godsake, this site has a 2 page long Trish Stratus work analysis thread. A fair amount of 00s Kawada is online. I may look into it once I get some computer issues resolved. Unless John wants to order me a Kawada set for Christmas I'm intrigued by the idea that someone would rank Misawa, Kobashi and Taue above Kawada based on post prime work because it would indicate to me (someone who loves Kawada) that he was really bad post 2003 (when I stopped following modern puro) while Misawa/Kobashi/Taue must have been really fucking great considering that's the time period that makes the other 3 "easily surpass" Kawada. I haven't watched a ton of post 2003 4 Corners stuff but I've seen enough that I'm skeptical.

If Between the Sheets came out on Tuesdays, this would be the perfect set up for an "Its on in the background while he does the BTS pods" joke.

This is one I kind of disagree on. Maybe it's blasphemous to say, but Blue Panther usually disappoints me. The stuff against Atlantis is one of the all-time great in-ring rivalries and better than the rivalry with Santo, which I haven't seen deliver much outside of a few AAA exchanges and those two matches in Monterrey (wasn't a fan of the Essex, UK stuff.) I steadfast believe he had stuff as good as the Atlantis stuff, but not on tape. One of the most frustrating things about him is you *don't* get 4-5 minutes of great matwork in the average Panther trios. I wouldn't call him the best trio match worker for the simple fact that he wasn't that flash a rudo, but also because he doesn't bring the matwork on a regular basis. He can even be (dare I say it) sloppy on the mat at times. I'd take Fuerza, Emilio Charles Jr or Satanico over Panther any day when it comes to watching a random trios and that's just for starters. I also think he's weak at singles matches. I'm not even talking about his old man Panther stuff, which I think is overrated, but his weak stuff against Love Machine and Octagon. Pena may shoulder some of the blame there, but Fuerza excelled in the same environment and people don't put him in the same lofty sphere as Panther. I always feel kind of dirty typing this stuff, but is Panther really better than say Solar? I knew you that Panther pick was going to jump out at you. The Solar comp is actually interesting. I haven't seen nearly enough Solar but I absolutely love what I have seen. He's someone I will dive very heavily into at some point. Panther probably gets a bump for being my first favorite Luchadore when I first got into the style and while I haven't seen a shit ton of post 2003 Lucha, I have seen a good bit of older Panther. He's my knee jerk reaction for best lucha mat worker but I'll concede it may not actually be the case. I'll also admit that of the top 25 guys I listed so far, Panther is easily the guy I've watched/rewatched the least of since the start of the project and the matches of his I have rewatched are things like vs Atlantis, vs Santo Jr, vs Villano V, and vs El Mariachi. So probably the tippy top end stuff. I'll rewatch some more run of the mill stuff. OJ's reply was pretty much the reason I wanted to post a list with comments made.

Davey is giving the crowd what they want/expect, Hansen is giving Giant Baba what he wants/expects to tell his storylines and manipulate his fan base. Would that be fair?

Quoting this from the "What are we Voting on Thread" because I'm in the process of doing this. I made a preliminary top 100 and I've started adding brief "WON HOF 1996" style comments for each candidate. I won't have time to finish the whole thing for a couple of days but I've knocked out brief comments for my top 25 and figured I'd post it since brainfollower is wanting to see explanations on lists. 1. Terry Funk – Most versatile wrestler ever. Checks all the boxes in terms of great matches, legendary feuds and rivalries, variety, longevity, etc etc Defines pro wrestling for me in a way no one else could 2. Satanico – Will hopefully be covering him in depth with Grimmas soon 3. Negro Casas – Weird to put a guy at #3 and still feel like I’m underrating him. He’s never fully connected with me like Funk, Satanico (and a few other top tier guys) but he is too good to deny. Does any and everything you could possibly ask of a luchadore. 4. Stan Hansen – I’ve said enough about Hansen 5. Genichiro Tenryu – It took him a little longer than you’d like to get going but when he put it altogether, he really put it together. Has the great matches, longevity, variety of opponents, etc but also had that special quality that made his matches feel hugely important. Probably has more "hidden gem" Main Event matches than anyone. No one ever talks about stuff like vs Hash 2/94 or vs Choshu from 2/85 (or or or) but then you watch it and its like "Fuck is Tenryu goddamn amazing or what!" 6. Jerry Lawler – The best US wrestler ever. Another “ticks all the boxes” guy in terms of peak, matches, opponents etc. Maybe the best ever at getting a quality match out of a crap opponent. 7. Ric Flair – Everyone know’s Flair’s case but I just wanted to add that I do not hold his post prime against him. 8. Nick Bockwinkel - Feels like I’m underrating him at #8. Again everyone knows his case. Flair gets the nod because while Bock was probably a more versatile/less formulaic wrestler, I think Flair just swamps him in terms of really high end great matches. With more footage, I have no doubt Nick would catch up but this is a case where great matches wins out. 9. Jumbo Tsuruta – Jumbo’s a weird guy in that I like him as a young up and comer and I like him as a grumpy veteran, but I’m not really in love with him during what would be the “prime” of his career. There is enough stuff in that “I don’t really love him era” that I dig and he was clearly a good worker but I couldn’t possibly have him out of the top 10. 10. Yoshiaki Fujiwara - The best shoot style wrestler ever. Had a unique charisma and style. All time classic feuds against Maeda/Takada/Sayama/Yamazaki. Unquestionably had the best match of Inoki’s career. Very probably had the best match of Riki Choshu’s career. Was terrific in tags. Just a guy who got pro-wrestling. Can I put all these guys at a tie for #1? 11. Tatsumi Fujinami – Almost feels like the Japanese version of Nick Bockwinkel or Buddy Rose in that he could have a good match (and often very good-great) against anybody in any style. I actually want to revisit his 90s work even though EVERYONE has been disappointed by it. 12. Hijo del Santo – The best babyface and high flyer ever. Longevity, classic feuds, tons of different opponents, great mat worker and brawler. 13. Buddy Rose – Supremely underrated. At his peak he was great at literally every aspect of pro wrestling. Watching him in Portland was watching an absolute master. Had maybe the most impressive peak I’ve ever seen. 14. Toshiaki Kawada 15. Mitsuharu Misawa – I see these two as wedded forever. I think Kawada was better earlier than Misawa and maybe never looked back no matter how great Misawa got. I tend to prefer Kawada’s matches against Hansen, Taue, and Williams more than Misawa’s. 16. Jushin Liger – The best Junior ever. He would have excelled in any time working any style. If had had chosen to leave NJPW in 1988 and join UWF and then RINGS, we would still be talking about him as a top 20 wrestler. Incredible body language and I agree with the point that I read on here by somebody that he was so expressive that you could tell he had great facial expressions even as a masked wrestler. 17. Shinya Hashimoto – I really wanted to find a way to get Hash into my top 10 but just couldn’t do it. This feels super low and the more I’ve been thinking about it lately, I’m not sure I think Kawada/Misawa are actually better than Hash. Was having truly great singles matches before Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi. Has a really impressive list of great matches/opponents that runs much deeper than you might think. Has that Choshu/Tenryu quality that makes small matches feel more important and big matches feel like the most important matches ever. 18. El Dandy – Another “Do everything” type wrestler but he’s never connected with me like he has with other lucha fans. I can’t even put my finger on what it is exactly but I don’t love him like I feel I should. But he has the matches, variety of opponents, variety of work, and a 2-4 year peak that rivals anyone that I just can’t deny. 19. Sangre Chicana – I feel a little bit bad about underrating Dandy but I feel no shame in overrating Chicana. He was the driving force in were the two best matches I’ve ever seen. Incredibly great brawler/puncher/bleeder (Lucha brawling is my favorite style of wrestling easily). Great in the few title matches I’ve seen him in. Maybe the best over the top wobbly selling ever. My favorite wrestler. I overrated the shit out of him but I don’t care. 20. Ricky Morton – Really defines 80s US Tag team Wrestling for me. Is the best US babyface wrestler ever. Probably the best tag wrestler ever. Definitely the best face in peril wrestler ever. Had great singles matches when he had the opportunity. Was great probably as early as 1980 and was still really good as late as 1995ish. Really underrated and dynamic offensive worker but no one really thinks about that when they think of Morton. Anyway. Yeah. Ricky Morton. 21. Rey Mysterio Jr – Really he’s right there with Morton as the best US underdog babyface ever and right there with Santo Jr as best flyer. Should probably be higher since he was able to excel in territories I generally don’t like (Late 90s/00 WCW and WWE) while everyone above him worked in the styles and promotions that I generally love. 22. Blue Panther – Might be the best Trios match worker because no matter what if he’s in the match you know you’re going to get 4-5ish minutes of great mat work at the absolute worst. All time great feud with Santo Jr. Probably Atlantis’ career best opponent. The El Mariachi match. Etc etc. 23. Bill Dundee – If he was 8 inches taller he could have been the biggest star in wrestling. Everyone knows the Eternal Lawler feud and it is arguably the best in ring/out of ring promo stuff feud in wrestling history. So most people probably think of him as a great brawler and he absolutely was, but he was also a terrific mat worker and a really great tag worker. 24. Ricky Steamboat – I feel like if I made a top 100 and Ricky Steamboat wasn’t in the top 25 I would have fucked the whole thing up. All time great babyface, tag worker, singles worker, has the great high profile matches and hidden gems and variety of opponents and classic feuds. 25. Daniel Bryan – Talk about a guy who excelled in territories I generally don’t like. Bryan was probably the best or 2nd best wrestler in the world from sometime in 2001-May 2014. Say what you will about worldwide quality (and I probably would) but that is an insane run. Has great variety both in his work and opponents. In the top handful of best underdog babyfaces ever. One of the best hot tags ever. Had the best WWE match Ive ever seen (vs Cena) and a legit great non-gimmicked match against HHH which is as impressive as any criteria you could come up with.

I feel like Bobby Heenan deserves a spot on my list because I believe he's one of the top 10 all around performers in wrestling history (that I've seen yada yada blah). But since I've always viewed this project to be about ring work, I didn't want to rank him based on interviews/commentary. So I'm considering him on the basis of how incredible he is in a few matches but also his performances as a ringside manager during the matches. I'm also considering Jim Cornette and Jimmy Hart. Those are my only non-traditional wrestler candidates (I REALLY wanted to nominate Andy Kaufman but even I can't go that far) but I'm only taking the stuff they did during the matches into account.

I'm not as up to speed with early 90s Taker as I am on Hansen but.... The main problem with the early Undertaker comp is that early Undertaker wasn't having excellent matches working a more giving style in different promotions/countries while working the Undertaker gimmick. Stan was. Nor does Taker have anything like the Terry Funk or Baba rivalries from an artistic standpoint. Not to mention Hansen's pre All Japan work in New Japan and WWWF. etc etc. Hansen was playing his role in All Japan but how he worked within that role changed depending on his opponent and setting (singles or tag match) AND he was working differently before after and during the time period in question. We can't really say the same for early 90s Undertaker.

I'm wondering how high Colon can end up for Dylan and El Boriqua? I'm also wondering if anyone else has seen enough to feel comfortable ranking him. As a followup question for people who have seen enough, who are some other wrestlers you envision being in a similar range? Need PR set.

edit I posted a top 100 that I made but then I realized motherfucking Bobby Eaton wasn't on it and that is a horrendous oversight. I was in the process of making 1996 WON HOF Comments for each wrestler to give an example of the shit I'm thinking about while ranking guys. But then I saw there was no Eaton and therefore an invalid list. I will repost the thing with comments and Bobby Eaton soon.

Eww. Not from anything I've ever seen, no. Hahaha blame Buddy Rose

Wahoo is one of the top handfuls of wrestlers I would love for a mountain of prime footage to suddenly became available. Everyone knows Wahoo was a stiff badass who could bleed with the best of them but he has an innate charisma that made everything feel bigger and more important. Based on the footage we have, he's not on the level of Tenryu/Hashimoto/Choshu types but I think Wahoo has the same sort of aura those guys have. I'd have to be talked out of putting him on my list.

Who will be the high vote on Villano III? He feels like one of those "should be a top 10 contender but we just don't have the footage" types. Regardless of a lack of prime footage, he's a stone cold lock for my list. But I'm wondering if anyone is going to have him as a top 20ish level guy?

This is another one of those "I just want to learn more about this guy" nominations, but is Killer Tim Brooks worthy of a nomination?

That Finkel promo was awesome. But holy shit that was the worst attempt at a southern accent ever.

Where would Kikuchi rank on the list of best working underdog babyfaces of the 90s?

It goes back to his character and promotional needs and promotional realities that I talked about at length before. He didn't steamroll Giant Baba or Tenryu or Tsuruta. He steamrolled who he needed to and put over the guys he needed to.

I think this is interesting because of the disappointing series of matches (except one) against Stan Hansen when Hansen has said that his style was to go at people and see how they react. Not sure I would agree with it (I like Jumbo) but reading that did make me go "hmm., that's interesting." Can you point to any glaring examples?

I'm convinced it is intentional because it has to do with his opponent. Misawa was in the middle of establishing himself as the native ace of the promotion. Hansen was already a legend but he was a legend on the wrong side of 40. Kawada and Kobashi have both taken him to the limit in matches already in 1993 by now and Misawa is on a level above Kawada/Kobashi. Hansen was obviously still a key part of the promotion (he's not only winning this match, but he's taking the Champions Carnival with his victory) so he's kept strong but he has to make sure Misawa comes out of this match looking good since Misawa is still the TC Champ and top Native Wrestler. I just watched it again and thought it was excellent. Misawa working the arm down the stretch is a nice change of pace for the typical AJ match. Loved all the Misawa elbows to the arm. Good stuff.