Fando

Because they could never look like Hogan, Warrior, Austin, Rock

There is also a huge difference between Dave passing along someone's name and then that guy actually getting over. Same with Jericho.

Younger workers are not going to be looking at Dave's rating as a marker for success, they are probably going to watch the match and think it was a great match because plenty of people who couldn't care less about Meltzer already do. And it's looking like they could see Kenny Omega get signed by WWE after having it. And like Loss wrote: Plenty of things Dave often criticizes have not gone away despite what influence he has.

What, you think the people popping in the dome are all WON subscribers?

Given she actually works with people who used to work there now and @s others on twitter, I think Dave Meltzer has little to do with what she's watching.

But not as bizarre as him saying Omega's cringy promos are better than AJ's.

Kids have been and are still saying the same thing about this being match of the decade (and next decade) and all kinds of hyperbole on twitter and tumblr immediately after the match without any influence from Meltzer. It's what a lot of people enjoy out of a big match. I thought the most surprising thing Dave said, from WOR, was that KENNY OMEGA is "The Guy" that WWE is looking for.

My fav lucha matches always look like staged bar fights from 1980s action movies and I love it and the crowd interaction can be amazing to see. When you watch old women wipe blood off of wrestler's faces and see old dudes fanning them with their hats after they're down, that shit is magic. I think the bad crowd mics hurt sometimes on video/TV. It never seems loud enough. Some Japanese wrestling is sometimes closer to some American wrestling in terms of huge contact moves with thick dudes slugging it out. Like Football.

Haven't seen it, but when the company put out their Montreal doc a few years back, Meltzer wrote that Shawn confirmed this in an RF shoot some time ago.

Geez, that was the whole POINT of Montreal! Nothing else. Neither Vince nor Shawn trusted Bret in "doing the right thing" based on Bret being so against jobbing to Shawn. Other wise, why the hell would they have gone through the trouble of making sure the belt ended up around Shawn Michaels at the end of the night? In hindsight, sure, Bret even suggested dropping it to anyone but Shawn, but that was the sticking point, Vince wanted Shawn to have the title at that point, Bret would do the honors to anyone BUT Shawn, and Vince was afraid Bischoff was too much of a POS that he'd have Bret go back on his word, and show up on Nitro with the WWF title. Plain and simple. The only way you could argue this is a "new narrative" to fit the warming of relations with persons wronged in the past is if you buy any theory that the whole screwjob was a work all along (and if you think Vince was going to let a shitty state of morale in the company and locker room get worse than it was that year due to Hart leaving through a screwjob, there is a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd could sell to you), which of course is a whole new kettle of fish anyway! Bret supposedly agreed to dropping it to Shawn, but a month later, after Montreal. Even after Shawn had insulted him in front of the locker room by saying he'd never return the favor. And Michaels turned it down. The "Bret wouldn't do the honors" for Shawn thing is the same Why Bret Why angle they broadcast on RAW that's meant to put most of the blame on him. No one is arguing this narrative is "new" just that it's crazy the company is still clinging to it decades later just so Vince can save face, looking "reasonably paranoid" rather than just out of his mind at the time.

Just saw the Legends episode. This is how JBL presented the Montreal tie-in, which makes it sound even more ridiculous. Making it sound like Vince was somehow oblivious he was suing them in the first place. I dunno if he misspoke there or what but it's still gross they keep pushing this narrative that it was plausible 20 years later. Ironically this comes just after they finish talking about people drinking the kool-aid.

They actually addressed that too. JBL: "Vince didn't know that." Whether that's bullshit or not, who knows, but I am inclined to believe that Vince would at least be paranoid enough to think Bischoff would try something. After all, Bischoff/WCW was already being sued anyway. Didn't know what, that he would win millions of more dollars and crush them court? Not only was the lawsuit ongoing but Bret still had time on his contract, which Bischoff had no idea would be breached anyway. I'm gonna watch it tonight, but from her appearance on Table or 3 and the HOF I think this is more 1) Vince being a psycho who can't face reality and 2) adding to her legacy without which it's really a lackluster run in the mid-90s.

Yeah, isn't this actually the reason why that excuse is bullshit? Because of the lawsuit that resulted both WWE and WCW knew they could never get away with that again.

at some point Corny mentions "Brock's going back [to the UFC] now", so that gives some reference for when it was taped, too.

Thought Back to the Territories with Funk was disappointing overall. It was interesting to see once because it may be one of the last interviews taped with him and there was a kind of sombreness at times looking back and thinking about his role in wrestling. Some stories Cornette had to tell for Terry because he just couldn't remember. His stories about growing up and having the boys over his family's house were still really cool but I don't think much was new there and It went kind of all over the place. . There were some little annoyances too, like throwing up a picture of the Harts when they were talking about Texas families and Cornette ranting about about Twitter for no reason at the end and Funk had no idea what he was talking about.

The poll results were also: Kevin Owens vs. Seth Rollins 139 Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks 66 Roman Reigns vs. Rusev 15 Dave's view is that several spots in the main event were too simialr to Owens and Rollins and "not as good." He also emphasized how in the building the reversal spots for Owens/Rollins tore the house down and how the fans booed the first table not breaking and then fell silent for the finish of the main event so this connects to the other thread about the crowd affecting how he rates matches.

kinda works both ways since they're the underdogs you get people fuming about Rollins and Owens tightly worked out choreography and table spots but give a pass when Bayley looks a step behind going through spots with Asuka, or when Sasha and Charlotte badly telegraph a table spot that bombs. Anyway, I 'd go with Charlotte for character work but Sasha seems to have more chemistry with a variety of opponents.

If it's a Sabu match. For real though if I think back to things like Sabu tearing his arm open, or Foley going through the cage or less horribly, Punk's elbow on taker not breaking the table they had far more of a physical impact and drama that pulled me in deeper than what happened at the end here. Even the last match when Charlotte dropped her on the ropes and then the tension of the splash mountain spot I thought changed everything about the match. I didn't have to project anything into the moment, it was just there. Didn't feel anything for it this time.

It can't be both though, it either looked and sounded violent or it didn't. It's wrestling, it needs to come off big in front of the crowd. I like the idea of it, but after rewatching it it just looks goofy and no way I could say the ending would not have been as good if Sasha did explode through the table followed by Natural Selection. Just because something is cliche doesn't mean it can't still be effective if placed and executed right during the match. And there were already cliches all over this match with the announce table and stretcher stuff. Might be nitpicking if I point out they also did the same RESPECT ME / I'M BETTER THAN YOU bit they do in every match that always ends with Sasha punching Charlotte in the face.

this is really over-intellectualizing what actually happened. There was no lawn darting As a spectacle it felt flat, the table made no sound, there barely appeared to be any impact because Sasha is so light and basically rolled up the table and back down. This is something we've seen a hundred times in brawls. Most recently during Styles-Reigns matches where AJ got tossed all over the arena.

there was no "finishing stretch." From the moment she collapsed during the liger bomb to the pinfall cover was like 30 seconds. And a minute before that she was still doing a tilt a whirl into an attempted Banks Statement. After she had her back dropped on a open chair. 15 minutes after she was going to be stretchered out of the arena. Yeah, it wasn't super choreographed like Owens-Rollins but it was still a 2k17 match come to life. So I wouldn't blame anyone for "moving on" from that during the match. It was one of those things they were doing their best to highlight on commentary but it didn't often match with what they were trying to do in the ring. Still disagree with Sasha basically jumping up on and rolling down the table at the end looking "so brutal."

But wasn't something "planted" specifically for Dave, people started wondering about it the second it was announced and then Foley blabbed about it on his facebook

Hooray for them. But saying top 10 in history is fucking nuts.

If Bret dropped the ring bell and Austin never bled and the crowd lost interest even before the stupid finish, and maybe if Austin did a drop kick after the sharpshooter like Sasha did the twisting triple suplex when her back was supposed to be fucked, then it would be in the conversation. I liked the match but wonder when the enthusiasm for the main will cool off because it's interesting reading all this hate for Rollins-Owens when Charlotte and Sasha had similarly over-planned table spots that couldn't even be executed. And I can almost see goc's point that the finish did exactly what it set out to do but with the last few matches these two have had, the first thing I thought when Sasha's back "gave out" was that she botched the spot. Then the mess with the tables made it more comedic with Sasha rolling off like a doll and then just getting pinned. I don't know if that was inexperience or trying to protect Sasha somehow by not actually slamming her into the table to finally break it.