ohtani's jacket

That strikes me as something different from cultural imperialism. If anything it's purely economic since foreign wrestlers have always been paid a handsome sum to wrestle in Japan, which is not the case in Mexico. I'm not sure I agree that lucha developed independently of the US. It's roots are in American wrestling the same as Japan. Lutteroth brought wrestling to Mexico from El Paso and used plenty of foreign talent in the early years of EMLL before developing Mexican stars. The first wrestler to wear a mask in Mexico was the American worker, Cyclone Mackey, and that was an idea that was brought over from the states.

This part is irrelevant as the SCAP post no longer existed after the peace treaty was signed in 1952 and MacArthur was fired by Truman in 1951 anyway four months before Rikidozan and pro-wrestling made their debut on Japanese shores. So while pro-wrestling may have been cultural imperialism it was entirely post-occupation cultural imperialism. See, it's a big topic.

It's also worth noting that pro-wrestling as we know it in Japan really began in the post-occupation period so Dylan's line that it was imposed on them at gun point is stretching it a little. The allied occupation ended in April 1952 and Rikidozan was in the States at that time. I guess you could argue that his JWA promotion as an offshoot of the cultural hegemony of the NWA, but that would require more exploration of who was really pulling the strings in the 1950s Japanese pro-wrestling promotions. Nobody really talks about the influence that the mobster Nick Zapetti had on shaping pro-wrestling in Japan. Outside of Western journalists based in Japan, that is. Not really in our circles.

Japanese professional wrestling being a direct product of US cultural imperialism is a blanket statement that would take hours of research to properly assess. The first recognised pro-wrestling matches in post-war Japan were performed by a small troupe led by Joe Louis. They were invited to entertain the troops by a service association the same way Bob Hope would be. For all we know that's all pro-wrestling in Japan would have ever amounted to if not for Rikidozan, Toshio Yamaguchi and Masahiko Kimura deciding there was money to be made in pro-wrestling. Those three guys, and their backers, had more to do with importing of pro-wrestling to Japan than any American I'm aware of. And in the case of the latter two, their wrestling activities in the early 50s were deeply rooted in the failure of the post-war professional judo association. Rikidozan's biggest supporters, NTV and the Mainichi newspaper, have always claimed altruistic motives for promoting pro-wrestling. Their execs always say they were helping to restore national pride, raise the people's spirits and that sort of thing. Of course there were commercial interests too. Pro-wrestling and television had a symbiotic relationship in post-war Japan as we all know. Pro-wrestling was tailor made for TV and the Japanese were fascinated by television much like the rest of the world. I actually think the most interesting thing about the post-war period is that the Supreme Commander Allied Powers didn't seem to mind the portrayal of Japan vs. the West that every man in the street was aware of because the SCAP actively tried to disseminate nationalistic ideologies during the post-war recovery period. Much like the police didn't seem to mind how riled up the throngs of people got crowded around street corners, it seems the SCAP saw pro-wrestling as a positive distraction from the post-war hardships.

Smarkschoice lasted for a few more years as a message board after it stopped being.a site. It was hacked a few times and its contents wiped.

What I really wanted to say about "niche picks" is that I don't think there were that many obscure picks up and down the board. I could come up with far more obscure names than were voted for and I'm sure many others could do the same. Even if you look at niche picks as a sub genre that didn't receive much support, it's still what Parv would refer to as the "silent minority" since he's such a huge believer in consensus. I'd love to know what the hipster picks were that made the top 150.

I don't have a problem with people voting on what they know. In 2006 we voted on what we knew as well. But we didn't have two years and digital media to know any better. I think the issue that some people have is that too many people voted on what they knew too late or didn't take full advantage of the viewing period.

I don't believe that was the context that Parv was using niche in at all. He was referring to hipsters and "boring" vs. "exciting."

I'm kind of torn on Dick Murdoch. My feelings are similar to Matt's argument about Blue Panther in that I think I love the idea of Dick Murdoch far more than the reality. I love the idea of this fat, beer guzzling redneck who can blend comedy, brawling and mat work together seamlessly, and deliver a masterclass in pro-wrestling the way that people feel Funk or Buddy Rose do, but then I watch the matches and they're never as good as I want them to be. But I'll persevere because I really want to love Dick Murdoch. Well, she fell, but not as far as I thought she might. It's fair to say there's not the same cult of personality surrounding Hokuto as there was in the tape trading years. Though I will point out that during the years where people would pimp her '93 as the greatest year ever by any worker there were guys like Mike Oles rubbishing the claim. The things I liked about Hokuto are tough to get back into. I expended enough energy and emotion on her hard luck story back in the day. I was interested in seeing whether any of her post baby comeback work was worth reevaluating but I couldn't find the motivation to check it out. Maybe a worker I've closed the book on unless somebody comes up with a new take on her. I don't believe in Andre. I've seen all of his good matches, and I'm sure there are more out there, but it's not enough to rank him as the 51st best worker. I don't care how novel the dude was, the list of people he best in this poll who were consistently better than him is longer than 7 foot, 4 inches tall.

In my opinion there has to be a challenge to conventional wisdom every step of the way otherwise you end up with discourse that amounts to "man, Ric Flair is awesome, and Terry Funk too." If you look through the list there are numerous workers who've benefited from challenges to conventional wisdom, and a few that have been hurt as well, but the greatest accomplishment of the list was in those victories not Flair holding out against the heathens. Not every challenge against conventional wisdom is something people are going to agree with, but I can't imagine watching a whole bunch of wrestling, particularly from the same wrestler, without thinking about somebody else's take on it or trying to form your own. Which isn't to say I can't enjoy wrestling for enjoyment's sake, I'm specifically referring to these GWE discussions. A lot of newer or younger fans talked about discoveries and journeys but for those of us who've around a while it was more about new takes and revisiting older stuff from a different perspective. It was about how much we've changed in the last 10 years and how that's reflected in our tastes and the stuff we like now vs. the stuff we used to like. People came to this project from different backgrounds and vastly different starting bases. That's what I dislike the term "niche" pick. If you've stopped following the modern product and spent the past 10-15 years watching nothing but older wrestling (with few exceptions), and you have a broad viewing experience, then there are precious little in the way of niche picks in the entire top 500. I could say that modern puro picks are niche picks but it's only because I haven't seen any modern puro. Niche picks are simply undiscovered workers that people haven't gotten to. The idea that Negro Casas is a niche pick (to choose an example) is ridiculous. I don't care how little people think of lucha or how much they prefer mainstream American wrestling or classic Japanese wrestling, Negro Casas is not a niche pick. A guy way on the outside like Pat Roach? Yeah, maybe, but Pat Roach is an oversight not some rare recording or unheard album. Fringe picks exist, but some of the people whom were named niche picks was ridiculous. Another pet peeve was acting like it's okay to challenge conventional wisdom on Ronnie Garvin but sacrilegious to do it to Flair or Jumbo. Everybody should be open to the same criticism. Finally, I think people took the list a bit too seriously. In 2006 people who watched a lot of tapes and people who tried their hand at being match reviewers got together and shot off a list. There were arguments and debates, but I don't think we were trying to create something that would be left behind for future generations to discover. Listmaking was popular at the time. That ended up shifting to viewing projects, which in turn fell by the wayside. Now it's podcasts that are all the rage. I'm not trying to belittle the hours upon hours of effort that went into this list, but the overall tone from the piece of how important it was that Flair finished No.1 is maybe not the victory lap it was referred to but meaningless in the grand scheme of how Flair is viewed now and forever basically.

There's a fun 5/94 handheld that pits Devil & Kansai against Okutsu & Fukuoka. I'm not usually a fan of the two strongest girls being on the same side but it works well here. The 1997 Kansai vs. Candy match was mediocre. Both girls were ailing in '97, but Candy was also a girl who never really found her identity and comes across as a poor woman's Cuty Suzuki. She's all right in tags, though, and the '97 Jaguar & Devil vs. Kansai & Okutsu tag remains a fun bout. It's a bit exhibition-y but in an entertaining way. Worth watching to see Kansai and Jaguar lock-up and Devil looked really sharp twenty years on from her debut. Speaking of Devil, there's an early JWP Project where she celebrates her 15th anniversary with a match against Kansai. The interesting thing about it to me is that Devil was still working the style she used in the original JWP. It's clear to me now that she changed her style during the inter-promotional boom to keep up with the times. She was a lot more rough and tumble prior to upping her workrate game. There's also a huge contrast between young, healthy Dynamite Kansai and the ailing version from '97. The 10/95 WWWA title defence against Takako Inoue is a solid bout, perhaps better suited to a JGP style tournament than a world title bout, but a solid singles bout. Kansai did her best impersonation of a female Hashimoto and there was enough history between them to make the bout mean something. Takako was a good worker who had a fun rise through the All Japan ranks, but it was clear she was never going to be one of the main stars. She lacked the offence necessary to be a top star. Too much of her offence was based around counters and clever but nondescript strikes. I liked the stretch run here and there was some good selling from both women. I'm getting a bit sick of Splash Mountain, though. Man I hate Kansai's industrial piping outfit. She looks like some kind of kindergarten space rocket project or a modern sculpture made from pipe cleaners. Her Sgt. Pepper's jacket was so much cooler. I also hate it when she dyes her hair. It looks so much better black with a slight crew cut.

Hennig is never a guy I'd go into bat for, but I think he has enough highs in his Portland, AWA and WWF work to justify being this high. I'm not a territories first kind of guy, but one of the added benefits of that is that I don't care that his career petered out or he failed to deliver on his early promise and can just enjoy a good Curt Hennig match without any of that baggage. I fucking love the Hammer. I mean I really love the Hammer. While people are reflecting on Flair and Funk, I'd sooner spend my time thinking about the Hammer. Remember that old Shirley Doe story about Valentine? The one where they they had been drinking all night and Valentine suddenly asks Doe, “What’s this BattlArts shit all about, anyway?” How can you not love the Hammer? I know a lot of people like Buddy Landel's real Nature Boy act, but to me the real Nature Boy was always Greg Valentine with the same robes, the same hair style and the same bumps. He just wrestled a little bit more like his father and you won't find many who think that's a bad thing. I'm a huge fan of his stuff from the late 70s through to around '85 but will watch any of his random shit from '86 onward. If that's not love and dedication, I don't know what is. Valentine dropped the elbow on the rest of this list.

The first bit of tag wrestling I saw from Schmidt was pretty awful. I wasn't sure whether it was because of the era or if it was just a bad match. Then I watched a super fun tag match with Pat O'Connor and Bob Konovsky against Schmidt and Angelo Poffo. Lots of great shtick between Poffo and Schmidt with O'Connor right there ready and willing to scrap. A shitload of fun.

Man, if you search for Inoki in Japanese, YouTube becomes the Random Inoki Match Generator. Wanna see Inoki vs. Brute Bernard (you don't), search in kanji. Inoki vs. Murdoch from '71 was disappointing. Dickie was a solid mat worker but not a great one, and they spent a long time working the same body part. But it was the layout of the falls that made it subpar. Really lame booking to end the second fall. Took a lot of the shine off the bout. Murdoch had some nice touches in the third fall as he became exasperated and tried to cheat but even that made the bout uneven as he'd worked so cleanly up until that point. That was a common trope with foreign heels where they'd flip out in the final fall, but the better matches have the heel sow the seeds much earlier.

So it turns out that the 8/95 Aja/Kansai match is still their best. It trims most of the dead time and is built almost exclusively around strikes and selling, which is what you want from this pair. Aja puts in a tremendous performance and does a brilliant job of selling down the stretch as her title reign begins to wilt. More of a great Aja performance than a Kansai one, but a good bout for people looking to get into Joshi. A lot of the sequences are based on things they tried in their previous bouts but it's still accessible as a slugfest and the bomb throwing is kept to a minimum. It's too bad the Matsunagas didn't have a clue what they wanted to do with the big red belt after building to this high point.

Finally I watched the right Kansai vs. Kong match, and I'm not talking about their 1995 bout. The 5/94 match is the closest thing I've seen to a perfect Kong vs. Kansai bout thus far. Even I'm rolling my eyes as I type this like "sure, the match everybody forgets they had is their best, Daniel," but bear with me. The first 15 minutes sees Kong dominate Kansai and cut off every single comeback she makes. There's some typical Joshi resthold work, but Kong tries to keep it short and pick things up again. Kansai digs a little deeper and starts making her run, and the finishing stretch is full of shit I'd long forgotten about and got a legit reaction out of me. I love biting on near falls. Being the cynical jackass I am it doesn't happen that often, but man was I into this. The finishing stretch went back and forth the way all dramatic bouts should, and even though in the back of mind I knew who won this a combination of not remembering how it panned out and half thinking it was 1994 all over again and happening in real time had me hooked. Fun bout.

So it turns out that the 8/95 Aja/Kansai match is still their best. It trims most of the dead time and is built almost exclusively around strikes and selling, which is what you want from this pair. Aja puts in a tremendous performance and does a brilliant job of selling down the stretch as her title reign begins to wilt. More of a great Aja performance than a Kansai one, but a good bout for people looking to get into Joshi. A lot of the sequences are based on things they tried in their previous bouts but it's still accessible as a slugfest and the bomb throwing is kept to a minimum. It's too bad the Matsunagas didn't have a clue what they wanted to do with the big red belt after building to this high point.

Fujiwara's dazed no-selling in the corner makes Takada's leglock the equivalent of A Love Supreme. (I totally feel like I'm in the insult contest of Monkey Island now. ) Why are we comparing Fujiwara's poetry to the most useless invention known to man? The Takada leglock, it's like a pair of splintered chopsticks

Fujiwara's headbutt is the Sistine Chapel compared to Takada's leglock. Takada's leglock is the Rick Rude resthold of signature holds.

Rey's 619 isn't half as bad as Takada's leglock. At least it's over in a few seconds.

I would put Jumbo, Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi comfortably ahead of Hansen. Tenryu, Hansen and Taue would be on the next level then Robinson, the Funks, The Destroyer, Baba, Steve Williams and Akiyama. I don't think Hansen's work in the 80s is good enough for him to be the number one pick. Lots of mediocre tag work and disappointing matches with Jumbo and Tenryu.

I agree with you, but different workers are at different stages. Looking at the list right now, I bet more people can point out the shortcomings in Curt Hennig than Jim Breaks and that's basically because people have been taking about Hennig for longer than they have Breaks. Reading the arguments that folks have, and taking a side, is kind of an unspoken aspect of smarkdom, but it plays a huge role in how workers are perceived. In the case of Breaks, nobody is arguing about him.

People have a hard time scrutinizing the workers they like. The only reason that Flair gets more scrutiny than others is because people have gone off him. It's easier to scrutinize something you don't really like or you're tired of. With a worker like Satanico most people are still discovering him. People haven't gotten tired of him because there's still a lot to see. A handful of people mentioned that they had a hard time getting into him as opposed to other lucha rudos, but they didn't really elaborate on why, perhaps in fear of a full blown argument. Really, unless you find a Devil's Advocate for each of these guys it's difficult to have a discourse that even approaches the discussions people had about Flair.

Man, after giving Owen, Dundee and Breaks some thought it's hard to get excited about this top 10.

I was surprised Joe finished this high given the wasteland that is TNA. I guess people really like Samoa Joe. That inspires me to put him on my playlist going forward. A childhood favourite of mine. The number of times my buddies and I imitated Owen was insane. Lines from his promos or television commentary would creep into daily conversation and anything remotely heelish would get the full Owen treatment. This was in the days before memes, but it was basically the same thing. And I think that's a testament to the fun, twisted, but incredibly consistent logic that Owen brought to his heel turn. It was a heel turn that lasted for years not weeks or months, and like all good villains, Owen believed that he was the hero. Even when he reunited with Bret, he still believed he'd been right all long. For my money one of the great wrestling characters. I actually credit him with getting me back into wrestling after a long lay-off between 1991 and 1995. It was the Bret/Owen feud that really sparked my interest in wrestling again and I never looked back after that. If Owen hadn't captured my imagination I probably wouldn't be here today (blame Owen folks.) The line on Owen used to be that he was better before the knee injury, or whatever it was, that robbed him of his athleticism, but I don't like his early stuff at all. I don't know if it's directly attributable to Owen or not, but I once read an interview where he talked about not liking the "Mexican style" because of how flippy it is and shit (and I think Bret has said similar things.) If you watch Owen's early stuff it's the flippiest shit out. It's some of the most dated late 80s-early 90s stuff around. But as soon as he becomes the Rocket, gold. With this guy I don't even care about the matches. The matches are just gravy. I could watch Bill Dundee do nothing but talk all day long. Promos, vignettes, interrupting other people's matches, you name it. Another of the great wrestling characters. He's one of those guys where it's hard to draw a line between where the real Bill Dundee ends and the character begins. An incredibly energetic guy. Tireless self-promoter. Complete motormouth who could talk a guy's ear off and fire off comeback after comeback. Oh, and he wrestled too. Love Bill Dundee. Holy shit, Owen, Bill Dundee and Jim Breaks all in a row? Like brothers in arms. Could you imagine the arguments those three could get into? Or how much fun it would be to watch them all pile on Lance Russell or Kent Walton? 56 was an okay finish for Breaks. During the voting period it dawned on me that it's still early days when it comes to Breaks. A lot of people have seen his stuff on YouTube, but we're not at the stage yet where people can compare his early, more athletic work to his older, more heavily shtick based stuff. I'm not sure whether people could say with much certainty which Breaks they prefer, his work against other top lightweights or his carry jobs of teenagers. Whether they prefer slightly serious Breaks or full on comedy; technical bouts or playing to the gallery. You don't see any discussions about which of the Young David trilogy is the best, or any sort of analysis of post-prime Breaks. None of the stuff you see with the serious candidates. Not that many people wade into the Breaks vs. Grey argument either. Breaks remains that funny little British guy in the bumblebee tights who whines a lot and hates being called crybaby. I remember Ditch once saying if you've seen one Breaks match, you've seen them all. I've seen them all and can comfortably say folks haven't scratched the surface of what Jim Breaks is all about and until that happens 56 is about as far as he can go.