ohtani's jacket

If we had more of his 60s stuff available he'd be a surefire lock for the list. Based on his mid-70s work, I could see people having him in the upper reaches of their top 75. The thing about a guy like McManus, and I think this is particularly pertinent in regard to his WON HOF induction, is that he never gets critiqued. A guy like Flair gets a 5 part podcast mini-series made about him and McManus hadn't even had a comment made about him until Childs bumped this thread. That's kind of where we are with Mick despite the fact he was voted into the WON HOF. I almost feel like he got voted in by hearsay more than anything else. On that basis, he's probably not ready to be voted onto the GWE list.

See, that's interesting. When I first got a bunch of 1989 & '90 El Dandy, I immediately thought "yeah, this guy's the man," so it's hard for me to imagine anyone having a disconnect with him. I would actually credit that impact with me wanting to dive into lucha completely whereas with WoS it was Myers and Grey and then Rocco and Jones who sparked my interest in the stuff.

Parv mentioned in a recent podcast that Dandy didn't have the immediate impact for him that a guy like Jim Breaks did. I have a vested interest in this since Breaks and Dandy are two of my all-time favourite guys and both had a huge impact on me the first time I saw them. But I wonder who impressed others more. If you've never seen them before, try for yourself. Here's Breaks in one of Parv's favourite matches of his: And here is Dandy vs. Satanico from 1990:

I know it's tricky. Usually, the name of the promoter is on the turnbuckle pads. In this case, it's confusing because they say Victoria: Victoria refers to the venue: the Victoria Baths in Nottingham, which was a Morrell and Beresford stronghold. The majority of the time the padding will say Dale Martin, but sometimes the television was taped in other territories such as Relwyskow and Green. But basically it's all Joint Promotions up until 1987 unless it's satellite wrestling on Screensport or Reslo.

I hope you won't mind this correction, but All-Star didn't appear on ITV until 1987. Finlay/Adams was Joint Promotions.

Am I the only one who thinks Hansen can be just as cartoonish as Funk?

There was a split in JWP during this very month (October '91) that led to the promotion folding in January of '92. Rumi Kazama was fired and Shinobu Kandori led a group of girls to break away and form a new promotion called LLPW. Dynamite Kansai, Mayumi Ozaki, Devil Masami, and Cutie Suzuki, etc. remained loyal to Masatoshi Yamamoto, who bankrolled a relaunched version of JWP dubbed JWP Project. JWP Project had its first card in April of '92 and LLPW followed suit in August, so it was relatively seamless. JWP essentially existed as a promotion for the entire decade. They were able to strike a TV deal with WOWOW, but struggled at the box office, and though beloved by fans like myself, were never really able to present a viable alternative to AJW's dominance. The original JWP started with a hiss and a roar in '86 and they had big plans to be what All Japan was to New Japan, but it never took off. They uncovered a bunch of talented workers and provided a place for AJW retirees to keep working, and also made a valuable contribution to the interpromotional era, but the promotion was a failure if we're being brutally honest. It still exists, though, as a small indy so it has longevity going for it.

It as an 8mm film from the same ebay source as the Masambula bout. The other Jones/Rocco bouts available are: Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco (6/30/76) Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco (7/26/78) Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco (9/13/78) Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco (12/30/80) Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco (6/8/88) The first two bouts were uploaded by tellumyort a long time ago via Real Man's Man, and I think Arthur Psycho has uploaded the two 80s bouts. I haven't seen the one from '88 yet, but from memory the 1980 bout is JIP. The '78 title bout has never been uploaded, but I ripped it for Jimmy recently and anyone who wants to see it can PM me.

It seems feasible to me that there were workers who were quite happy to work a Flair style match. I mean who's going to turn their nose up at a heated main event that draws well? And even within the confines of having to work the match Flair's way there were still opportunities to get yourself over by selling well and projecting some kind of aura.

I'd like to think when Mark Twain coined the phrase "there's no such thing as an original idea" he was referring to Rudman luv. I've also never done coke, but if you can cut a promo that good while stoned they ought to lace the RAW catering with the stuff.

This may be true, but Tamura wrestled once a month and spent the rest of the time training.

It's a bit hard to go back to the dregs of World of Sport after those rarities, but here's another hour's worth: THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 32 Steve Logan vs. Peter Wilson (7/11/84) No offence to Peter Wilson or Steve Logan, but I can't imagine anybody really wanted to see this on television. Kendo Nagasaki/Mark Rocco vs. Fuji Yamada/Clive Myers (1/13/87) All-action tag with no rhyme or reason to it. It wasn't bad, but it was closer to the Mark Rocco on the New Japan set than the Rocco I've been so high on lately. Tony St. Clair vs. Soldier Boy Steve Prince (Caernarfon, taped 2/27/95) 1995... this is some seriously late Reslo. I don't know if you'll remember this, but Steve Prince was the guy who Fit Finlay stiffed mercilessly during a match on ITV. Back then he was wearing a black gi and wielding a katana blade. Here he'd changed to some sort of soldier gimmick. St. Clair was professional with him, as you'd expect, despite the fact he hadn't improved. Andy Blair vs. Red Ivan (3/5/87) As big a squash as you'll see on British television. I believe Red Ivan worked as Vladimir Krupoff in Stampede, not that the name rings any bells with me. Poor old Andy Blair was roadkill here so that Ivan could be fed to Daddy a week later. Then after that he was never heard of again. Grasshopper Phil Johnson vs. Ray Smith (4/6/88) The only memorable thing about this was that Smith took the liberty of stomping Grasshopper's bare feet. I've always wondered why guys didn't try that against barefoot wrestlers. The answer is that it doesn't hurt.

Someone found it randomly among some 8mm films they bought off ebay. I got it from a private collector.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Doesn't need to be write-ups or anything. Just throw some stuff out there when you have it sorted. In the meantime, there's this: Mick McManus vs. Jackie Pallo (5/5/62) I guess I never need to see another British match now that I've seen the most famous one of all. The most most noticeable thing about the bout to begin with is how different the wrestlers look from versions I'm used to. Pallo is mainly younger looking, but his hair is even poofier than in the 70s. McManus has combed down widow's peak that looks nothing like the slicked back, greasy hairstyle we're familiar with. He had to have been wearing a hair piece in the 70s. This is pretty much the ultimate needle bout. You can count on one hand how many wrestling holds there are. They lay into each other with stiff looking shots and throw each other about. The first two rounds are full of niggle almost to a fierce extent. They're arguably the most intense rounds of the bout as they do a fantastic job of meeting the public's early expectations. The story was supposed to be that after dodging Pallo for so long, McManus could no longer avoid him, but unfortunately there was a side stake of both men putting up a 100 pounds for a winner take all kitty that Campbell wouldn't stop obsessing over. That took away from the narrative at times, as I doubt either man was motivated solely by the side bet, but the in-ring stuff was fast and furious. McManus was by far the better wrestler, and when he did apply holds he looked like Arn Anderson compared to Pallo, but Jackie's forearm smash was good enough that he could remain credible up against the better worker. There was none of the shtick you associate with McManus, most likely because of the magnitude of the bout but perhaps also because it wasn't as big a part of his routine in those days. Instead he came across as a wrestler's wrestler who happened to be a prick. There was the occasional shit eating grin so synonymous with McManus when he's on top, but other than that it looked like a different version of Mick. Pallo seemed to get gassed as the bout went on, and it slowed down a bit in the middle rounds, but Jackie's equaliser was a great spot. He had McManus in a Boston crab which he lost hold of. McManus attempted to scuttle out of the way but Pallo caught him in a second attempt with absolutely exquisite timing for a fantastic looking fall. I'm not sure whether it was a blown spot or if they intended for McManus to counter, but it put the ball back in Pallo's court like an equaliser should. As stated, they grew a bit tired toward the end, but gave it their best in the final round. The match has grown in legend over the years, but nothing was meant to be settled on this particular evening and a draw was probably the best result for the effort that both men had exerted. It was an excellent match, but I thought the Howes/Lageat bout was never notches better and wouldn't rate McManus/Pallo any higher than **** making it far from one of the greatest matches of all-time, but that's largely down to the fact that Pallo wasn't as technically good as numerous British wrestler and what you're watching is really a complete worker in the form of McManus going to the dance with a showman with huge hair. Which basically proves McManus' side of the argument as to why he didn't respect Pallo. Maybe I'm biased toward Mick, but I thought Pallo slowed this down at times due to a lack of conditioning. Still a cracking bout, though.

Excellent! There's never been a better cross-eyed wrestler than Marty Jones.

Billy Howes vs. Jacques Lageat (5/5/62) This is the famous European Mid-Heavyweight bout that captivated audiences on the undercard of the 1962 Mick McManus vs. Jackie Pallo Cup Final Day special. Watched by one of Britain's biggest-ever audiences for televised wrestling, the bout is an absolute classic. It's incorrectly billed on most title histories as being a bout for the vacant title, but Lageat was billed, at least for the purposes of the bout, as the reigning European champion, with Howes defeating a number of leading contenders to earn the right to challenge. Walton is joined on commentary by the big Scotsman Ian Campbell, who lends his expert opinion between rounds, and the bout goes a shade under 40 minutes. The action is superb, but it's really the narrative of whether Howes can win it for Britain that seals it as an all-time classic. It's brilliantly handled with even Walton struggling to remain impartial. When Lageat takes the opening fall there's a growing apprehension over whether Howe can equalise. Then when he draws level, the question becomes can he actual do it? This is likely the only time I'll ever see a Howes match, but the Bristol man looked like a typically tough, uncompromising worker. He had a reputation for being hot tempered and unpredictable, but was playing the role of national hero and riding the wave of a comeback that everyone on the edge of their seats. When he won, Walton roared on commentary "he's done it!" and Walton himself got invited into the ring afterwards to present Howes with his belt. Amusing to see Walton as a dashing youth. He was clearly a man who paid a lot of attention to his hair. It's interesting listening to Walton commentate 60s bouts as he was less assured and tended to talk too much. On the other hand, it was slightly fresher than the same old anecdotes. The ref, Lou Marco, had a distinct, nasally voice and they were big on the count back in the 60s, so all match long you heard "OOOOONE, TWOOOOOO, THREEEEEEEE" as Lageat was up on nine for most of the bout, including one spectacular nearfall where there was a question of whether Marco had been lenient due to the language barrier, though Walton missed that Marco was using French whenever he thought Lageat might be close to a knockout. Anyway, just a tremendous bout. Haven't seen anything better than this from the 60s.

Marty Jones vs. Tony St. Clair (9/26/78) This was previously available as a VHS recording of the original broadcast, but a mate of mine acquired a full length version from the ITV vaults. Marty Jones was the reigning British Light-Heavyweight champion at this point and had just defeated Mark Rocco for the British Heavy-Middleweight title, which he immediately vacated, signalling his intention to step up a weight and challenge for Tony St. Clair's heavyweight champion of Great Britain. The way Dale Martin and Joint Promotions traditionally booked was that the challenger would have to beat the champion in a non-title match to prove to the promoters they were deserving of a title shot, and often they had to win a second rematch before getting their shot. Seasoned WoS viewers will know that catchweight contests often made for the best bouts. This had the added appeal of being champion vs. champion, as well as providing Marty with the opportunity to compete for what had traditionally been every wrestler's ambition, the British Heavyweight Championship. Tremendous action in this bout. St. Clair was so amazingly quick for a heavyweight that you'd swear you were watching two men in the same weight class. I don't think I've ever seen him look quite this skillful, though, which is a testament to how great a worker Jones was. My opinion of St. Clair has skyrocketed over the years from thinking he was a loose, lanky heavyweight who was at best a fun foil for heels like McManus and the Caribbean Sunshine Boys to viewing him as a world class heavyweight. I'm probably the only one in PWO-related circles who has a glowing opinion of Tony St. Clair since most people have probably only seen him a few times in Japan or Germany. For the record, he's fairly boring in Japan and not unlike Pete Roberts in that regard. This was a super bout. They teased an injury finish and a double knockout, but came through with a clean finish and were showered with praise from Walton, who would make it plain as day when he hated a bout and lean forward on the edge of his seat when into a bout. I mentioned Jones vs. Rocco being one of the great in-ring rivalries the other day, but another feather in their GWE caps were their performances in separate catchweight contests from '77 through to '80. Just brilliant.

World of Sport wasn't a promotion. You should either call it Joint Promotions or Dale Martin.

Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco (10/12/76) This is another Rocco vs. Jones bout from the 70s, which, in addition to the trilogy that aired on The Wrestling Channel, make it a quartet of bouts now. They met here for the British Light-Heavyweight title, which was left vacant by Billy Joyce when he retired, and we're fortunate that a print of it survives as title matches tend to be the real deal when it comes to a serious grappling contest on World of Sport. These two were so evenly matched. Jones got the better of the results, but there was nothing in it whenever they fought. For my money, it's one of the greatest in-ring rivalries of all-time for sheer skill and athleticism. Rocco worked this as a blue-eye, and while it got testy at times, he never fouled Jones once. I was half-expecting him to pull off some full blown heel move throughout, but he displayed sportsmanship throughout. It was an interesting glimpse into what a face Rocco might have been like, and showed how much of his all-action style was a deliberate choice to push the tempo beyond what audiences were accustomed to when in fact he was a technically skilled as any other wrestler in the country and could have worked the old-school style with ease. And Marty Jones, what can you say about Britain's No.1? One of the greatest of all-time yet virtually unheralded. People are missing the boat Jones big time as he's the kind of guy most would lap up. This was a tough, physical contest full of great action and moments that signaled that a new generation of workers had arrived on the scene as it was hard to imagine Joyce working at this speed and taking the kind of bumps that Rocco did. Great intensity and controlled aggression. The story always goes that they didn't get along behind the scenes, but instead of that ruining their bouts ala Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, it seemed to provide the fireworks for a massively competitive feud that was probably Jones' best, surpassing even his rivalry with Dave Finlay from the mid-80s. Rocco went onto great heights character-wise and ruled the late 70s as arguably the most dynamic star on television, but while he gave us many spectacles as Rollerball Rocco, his wrestling was never quite this good again. One of the high-water marks in British wrestling and you can probably extend that worldwide to 70s wrestling as well.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 31 Dave Taylor vs. Steve Casey (Merthyr, taped 2/4/92) Taylor was wearing the tassels here and looked to still be doing his booty shaking gimmick, though they'd gone back to calling him Dave "Rocky" Taylor instead of Dancin' Dave Taylor. I swear using other wrestler's nicknames like "Rocky" or "Destroyer" is one of the reasons why Taylor's career stuttered so much. Speaking of the name changing bug, Steve Casey was the wrestler formerly known as Steve McHoy. Folks who've been following these threads will know that I was high on McHoy as an emerging heavyweight prospect during the 1980s, but I'm sorry to say he looked washed up by '92. It didn't help that the Merthyr crowd weren't really sure who he was and that the match had very little heat, or that Taylor put in a flat performance, but I was disappointed by this. Giant Haystacks vs. Skull Murphy (Merthyr, taped 2/4/92) This was no better in Reslo than it was on ITV, but at least Murphy had the big man back to canvas if ever so briefly. I'm done with Haystacks matches unless something enticing pops up. Ricky Knight & Jimmy Ocean vs. Gary Clywd & Flesh Gordon (Newcastle Emlyn, taped 2/5/92) I find the Superflies a bit amateurish for my liking, but I can see them being endearing for some. Jimmy Ocean is a fun undersized comedy worker and Knight reminds me of a Brazo at times. I think Knight and their manager, Sweet Saraya, are the parents of WWE worker, Paige. That may interest some of you to see what mom and pop did on the British indy circuit. This was my first time seeing Gordon and he was as big a douche as promised. Awesome. Superstar Mal Sanders vs. Clive Myers (7/27/88) This was wildly entertaining. It was more cartoonish than classic WoS, but Sanders did a fabulous job of playing a loud mouth heel. One of the things about the wrestlers cutting promos before the bouts was that you got to hear what they sounded like, and I'm afraid Myers didn't sound anything like I expected. I always thought he'd have an awesome West Indian accent, but there was nothing calypso about it. The wildest thing about this is that Sanders took a bump to the outside then had a go at Walton. I can't remember a wrestler ever grabbing Walton. Occasionally, the action would spill onto the commentary table and Walton would fret about the monitors, but his reaction here was Bobby Heenan-esque. You can watch it yourself, but it didn't look planned to me: (Happens around the 10:20 mark.) The ending was sublime as well with Sanders insisting over and over again that he never touched the ropes despite video replays to the contrary. God, I love that sort of heel.

To be...no pun intened, fair, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone to be a contrarian on any aspect of Ric Flair's career. Even if you think someone was a better promo or story teller in the ring, it would be hard to find someone that doesn't think Flair belongs in the conversation about the best of all time in those aspects. To say nothing about said person being willing to sit down for a long recording about the topic. The entire reason Parv produced these podcasts is the fact that there are contrarians out there.

Masambula vs. Leon Arras (8/19/70) Masambula was one of the leading television stars of the 1960s. A UK-born black wrestler who took a fairly racist African witch doctor gimmick and hammed it up to such a degree that he became beloved by young and old alike. The King of Charisma, he was considered by many to be the best of the comedy workers due to the unpredictable nature of his act. Sadly for us, he suffered a career-ending injury in the early 70s, making his matches rarer than hen's teeth. Even a run-of-the-mill TV appearance like this is a huge find. It was actually more of an Arras showcase than a "Masambula bout" with Arras being quite the character himself. Arrras, better known as actor Brian Glover, was a big time talker and had no qualms about chewing the scenery when it came to pro-wrestling. Masambula spent most of the bout reacting to Arras, and playing off Glover's gags, rather than showcasing himself, but it was a fun bout, and like I said, rarer than hen's teeth. Bobby Barnes vs. Les Kellett (8/21/75) The best thing about footage from the ITV vaults is that you get to see Walton puffing on a cigarette as the MC stands leaning against the ropes waiting for the wrestlers to make their way to the ring, and you can hear the cat calls from the crowd when a guy like Barnes makes his entrance. The matchmakers paired these guys up a few times on television as it was such a natural match-up. On the surface, Kellett had fantastic reactions to Barne's effeminate behaviour, but you just know that below that jovial veneer is a homophobe, and sure enough when the two began scuffling after the bout, Kellett got on the mic and said in plain "Yorkshire" that he would beat the "poof" twice in one night. He then stole Barnes' over-sized comb and used it on his underarm hair and balding head while mocking Barnes' gait. It was all a bit racy for TV, and I wonder how much of it aired. Barnes was, of course, brilliant. If not for his sublime reactions to Kellett's goading, Les would have come across as a real shithead. One of the great WoS submission wrestlers, he was more of a cross between Adrian Street and Ricki Starr at this point, but superb at what he did. Adrian Street was prettier, but Barnes was a terrific worker. Highly enjoyable bout with the usual mix of comedy and stiffness from Kellett. Barnes talked a lot more than he usually did in the 70s as Kellett was getting under his skin all bout long. and when he'd had enough of Kellett messing with his hair, he snapped and the bout got nasty. Les was such a bastard and no doubt preferred it that way.

I think this is the site with the detailed tournament results -- http://www.wwf4ever.de/254-12-turnierarchiv-meisterschaften-hannover_info.html The side link on the Almanac gives you more tournament details along with some other historical info albeit in German.

Here are lists of the European tournament winners -- and related info about the German promotions -- http://www.wrestling-titles.com/europe/germany/ There was a site where people had painstakingly compiled the daily results of the major tournaments, but I can't find the link offhand. I think most of the results are available through Wrestling Data. If you use Cage Match, you can get a pictorial look at the overseas talent involved in each tournament -- eg. http://www.cagematch.net/?id=26&nr=995 Some of my own research can be found here -- http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28927-breaking-down-the-european-won-hof-candidates/?hl=%2Beuropean+%2Bcandidates These are the German bouts I've recommended over the years: Germany Axel Dieter vs. Moose Morowski (No DQ, Hannover 1980) Franz van Buyten vs. Dave Taylor (Pirate Fight, Hamburg 10/5/86) Franz van Buyten vs. Rene Lasartesse (9/27/87) Terry Rudge vs. Franz van Buyten (Hamburg 10/1/87) Johnny Saint vs. Terry Rudge (10/8/87) Steve Regal vs. Terry Rudge (Hamburg 10/7/88) All of the Wanz vs. Vader bouts are worth watching too. There's about half a dozen of them. The trouble with German footage is that it's almost all handheld footage and can be difficult to watch at times due to poor lighting or the camera being far away. The booking of the tournaments is often quite confusing and the rules are hard to follow. I often find it difficult to follow the referees and their incessant whistling. The tiebreaker system for draws is interesting and the Pirate FIght is a cool gimmick.

Pete Roberts vs. Wayne Bridges (5/11/82) This was perhaps the missing piece in the Roberts vs. Bridges feud. In the final televised meeting between the pair, instead of showing disdain for one another, there was a begrudging show of respect. The lift in intensity was noticeable from Bridges and he wrestled this bout like it meant everything to him on the night. Roberts was destined to be a super worker who was never deemed good enough to hold a title even the British one, but as a challenger there were few better to put on TV, and this came to life more than you'd expect from a Wayne Bridges bout. Easily the crown jewel of their feud and one of the best bouts of 1982.