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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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How is that a face first bump? He uses his hand and shoulder to brace himself. Am I taking you too literally? It's hard to tell with the cut, but it looks as though he sticks his hand out and turns on impact. Kawada more or less stuck with the same promotion his entire career. Tenryu wandered about because SWS and WAR folded. Why reward Tenryu for freelancing indy promotions while praising Kawada for staying with ol' faithful?
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Were guys such as Liger and Kobashi stigmatized when they had cancer? I have no idea. Probably not. Being a wrestler is not the same as being an office worker or a salaryman.
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Tenryu had no interest taking face-first bumps into exploding barbed wire in the '94 bout with Onita. I don't know what he was like when they re-ignited their feud in '99. Kawada fought Takayama on the 9/11/96 UWF-i that was headlined by Tenryu vs. Takada, so he has one worked shoot under his belt. Tenryu never really worked shoot style even in his bouts vs. UWF-i workers, and you could argue that Kawada's match against Albright is better that anything Tenryu produced during his feud with UWF-i. And Kawada worked Hustle, which may or may not be funny, but was a comedy fed.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
It's funny you mention that match with McManus, John, as I just got a copy of it the other day. (Or rather what exists of it. Apparently, the master tape was damaged somehow.) The footage I have is basically a bunch of retaliation by St. Clair followed by two quick falls; the second being a flash pin where he takes McManus by surprise, but the crowd reaction is one of the more memorable WoS moments, Folks swarm around St. Clair at ringside like he's just won a major title and two girls give him a kiss. Walton puts the whole thing over tremendously and it's a pretty cool piece of footage, but the interesting thing is that compared to McManus St.Clair looks big. Mick was a small guy. He used to hate people pointing that out to him as you probably well know. But Tony had quite a few stones on him, and since McManus was a legit middleweight, I'm guessing Quin was simply a big man. The kind of guy who must have looked huge in person. -
People don't like to talk about it for fear of discrimination, and cancer survivors often keep it a secret because it affects their employment chances. I don't know how big a deal it is that Hokuto spoke out, but breast cancer awareness in Japan is a pressing concern with a shockingly low number of women having annual mammograms.
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That was a really emotional blog post she wrote. Her diagnosis doesn't sound so good. Definitely the biggest fight of her life.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 28 Orig Williams & Boston Blackie vs. Terry Rudge & Johnny South (Caernarfon, taped 1988) Rudge and South were doing their best imitation of a US heel team here. They almost felt like a proto version of the Enforcers, Arn Anderson and Larry Zbyszko. It felt like a bit of pastiche, though. Rudge as Arn Anderson doesn't work for me as much as Rudge the bad ass kicker. For some reason Rudge never got to show his wares in Reslo despite still kicking ass in Germany each tournament. And South seemed to get wackier and wackier the longer he stayed around Orig's promotion. I haven't seen it yet, but apparently he ends up doing a Legion of Doom gimmick, which is odd to say the least. Another case of "what if?" this, as in what if the heels were allowed to show how good they really were? Boston Blackie vs. Bearcat Brody (Amlwch, taped 2/5/87) Bearcat Brody was a big guy who appeared on ITV a few times as Bull Pratt and worked a couple of matches against Daddy, which I'm sure was compelling viewing. He must have liked Bearcat Wright's gimmick because he pinched it for himself, or vice versa. A bit of a plodder, but by no means a bad big man. Blackie is an odd one. He looks great when he's grappling and ungainly when moving about the ring. Haven't quite made up my mind about him yet. Skull Murphy vs. John Elijah (4/6/88) This was the Brit equivalent of two hosses going at it, though nowhere near as effective as the US version and clipped to shit like most late period TV. The highlight of the match was Elijah powering out of a gator attempt and giving Murphy the most bad ass bearhug ever. I swear all bearhugs should be executed the way Elijah's was here, as an instant eff you submission. John Quinn vs. Jamaica George (Porthmadog, taped 1982) This was a below par performance from Quinn. Pretty much an extended squash with poor old George being every bit the whipping boy that Kid Chocolate was. Tony St. Clair took objection to Quinn's shabby treatment of George after the bell and stripped off his warm-up clothes to reveal that skinny physique of his. I'd almost forgotten how lean St. Clair was in his younger days. He was incredibly skinny for a heavyweight. Somewhere along the way he bulked up (rather dubiously it has to be said), but here he *almost* looked like the kid at the beach who gets sand kicked in his face. At least that's the way it looked like he confronted Quinn. King Kong Kirk vs. John Cox (2/24/83) Just a few minutes of wrestling action. Cox didn't last past round two. -
The Rugby World Cup is Pro Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ButchReedMark's topic in Pro Wrestling Mostly
Here's the Misawa wins! version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBFup2hEcAo -
The Rugby World Cup is Pro Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ButchReedMark's topic in Pro Wrestling Mostly
That was bigger than any upset in pro-wrestling history. -
I'm sure I've had this conversation before, but it's not just white people who are drawn toward Japanese pop culture. If you're referring to otaku then I've met my share of non-white otaku over the years. And I'm not someone who gives two shits about whether a person is otaku. All of us qualify as otaku by Japanese standards -- otaku usually referring to someone who is too interested in something or knows too much about it. I don't know that many Joshi fans who *only* enjoy Japanese women's wrestling, but I do know a few who place it above any other style. It was a niche for people the same as any other. We all know that the reasons why Joshi fandom was considered perverse was because the wrestlers are women. Considering that Joshi has links to the soft porn market, as well as the adult market, I suppose that's not unfounded, but if people can ignore the fetish stuff that's posted about male wrestlers on YouTube then women shouldn't be any trouble.
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The Rugby World Cup is Pro Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ButchReedMark's topic in Pro Wrestling Mostly
Things are slowly changing. At least there are protocols in place now. Before the mandatory concussion tests, guys would get concussed and play out the entire match. There are plenty of former players who admit there were games where they were concussed early and couldn't remember the rest of the game. And it's only really in the past few years that players who've suffered serious concussions are kept on the sidelines for months at a time. We have a couple of guys in the All Blacks who have suffered multiple concussions -- Read, McCaw, Conrad Smith -- and while there's an undercurrent of concern about what these guys are doing to themselves, people just want them to play, and concussions, or any other injury for that matter, are inconvenient for the rugby public. The perception was always that rugby players are tough and that a head knock wasn't supposed to phase them. It wasn't seen as an excuse for coming off. In All Black folklore, Colin Meads played on with a broken arm, Buck Shelford played on with a torn scrotum and McCaw won the World Cup on a broken foot, so what was a head knock to stop a guy from playing? I think the perception is changing and people are realising the seriousness of concussions, but it's still something where people are waiting for the medical teams to give the player a clean bill of health so he can get out there again and help his team win. There's not a lot of focus on the long term welfare of the players. In NZ, there are ex-players who suffer from concussion related problems, but they're not high profile enough to bring about any sort of change. Until a guy the stature of McCaw comes out and says he has problems, I think progress will continue to be slow. To bring this back to wrestling, Wales' injuries on the eve of the World Cup and their Pool of Death has got to be a pro-wrestling story. My Welsh buddies at work see the irony in it, but it really is cruel. -
All I can recommend you do is scroll through Joshifans, which still exists. Azumi Hyuga is a good person to start with, as you're probably familiar with her from the yearbooks. From memory, she had some high profile matches against Yoshiko Tamura somewhere around 2006. The last time I checked out any modern Joshi was when Arisa Nakajima was the next big young thing.
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I would recommend using Mike Lorefice's Recommended Matches page to go through what were historically the most recommended 90s matches. You can also find El-P's wonderful 1992 write-up on the same page. I got some comps made from list and it remains one of my favourite bits of wrestling writing. http://www.quebrada.net/matches.html A good place to start would be Kyoko Inoue/Takako Inoue vs. Mayumi Ozaki/Cuty Suzuki from Dream Slam 1 (4/2/93.) It's an enjoyable, well-worked match that is purely about the style. To me it's the perfect primer.
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This is the definitive collection of the stuff that's available to buy: http://www.britishwrestlingdvds.vze.com Carl used to make comps but these days he's only offering discs. Search among his best of comps. There's not that much Tibor out there and even less Clay Thomson. If there's anything that really takes your eye and I have it, I'll be glad to rip it for you.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 27 Orig Williams & Tony St Clair vs. Dave Larsen & Judd Harris (Rhyl, taped 7/12/83) This wasn't as good as the Rocco tag for the sheer reason that it was missing Rocco, but St. Clair did his best to carry the load. The surprising thing about Williams tags is that he doesn't know when to pick his moments. Usually, charismatic main eventers who are low on skill at least know how to pick their moments, but Williams ambles about like nobody's clued him in on the booking. You'd think he'd make himself look better. Mike Bennett vs. Steve Logan (6/26/85) This was impressive. Let me throw this out there right now -- Mike Bennett was the last of the great television heels and the lost WoS super worker that I've overlooked all these years. He has a really simple gimmick -- dyed hair and the word "marvelous" hand written on his tights and towel -- but what a worker. His offence is snug and crisp looking and his bumping and selling is exemplary. He gets heat for the same reasons every TV staple did, but it's his ring work that backs up the gimmickry. Logan is one of the more generic guys around, but Bennett made this into a showcase spectacle the way that Breaks would. That ability to make each TV match seem special is the sign of a great WoS worker. Bennett came along late in the peace after a lot of guys had jumped ship, but watching this I wish he had been a mainstay through the late 70s and early 80s. Watch the commitment as he takes the classic WoS bump over the ropes. I can't remember seeing a guy take that bump harder or faster. Myers was off the chain when he took the bump into the crowd, but Bennett is just non-stop in this and I wrote to my man looking to get a comp of all his matches after this performance. Marty Jones vs. Danny Boy Collins (10/20/90) This was really good, especially upon a second watch. I'm not a huge fan of Marty Jones' later TV work and his string of Mid-Heavyweight title defences for the the simple reason that they're usually clipped to shit, Jones is slower and not the supreme athlete that he was in the past. He was transitioning into Marty Jones, the vet, but still promoted as Britain's No.1. It was a weird transition period for Jones. Collins looked much better here than in his teenage years. I guess that makes sense as you'd expect a guy in his early 20s to be better than a teenager. His bad habits were nowhere to be seen here, and each fall came from a badass move such as Jones' missile dropkick. Not much in the way of mat work, but the action was good. It comes from the post-ITV Scotland tapings, which I suppose technically makes it one of the better British matches of the 90s. Good late period Jones match. Rick Wiseman vs. Pete LaPaque (2/2/84) Tournament match with a five minute time limit. Referee Brian Crabtree decided the winner on points. Perfectly fun for what it was. I always have time for Pete LaPaque. -
That's pretty much my take as well. Dragon Lee's title defences were always going to be a different beast from Virus', but it wasn't bad. I could have done without the stuff on the ramp and the use of the set, and I thought the third fall was too long, but there were a lot of cool things in it.
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I wasn't going to reply to this, but I knew you'd say something about it on twitter. I'd just like to say to your follower that "oh" is authorized by the Japan Foreign Ministry in passports as a transliteration of the long vowel sound in "Otani's" name and not a misspelling like the both of you claimed.
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Because a spot with context behind it isn't just a random spot. It has meaning, has been built to, has importance, etc. They weren't just randomly throwing out moves, and later in the match they were even playing off of moves/sequences that had taken place earlier in the match. What does it matter if the spots are random? If there's no spacing between them and the bout is non-stop then it's a spotfest. The word "spotfest" needn't be a pejorative. And repeating spots from earlier in the match isn't necessarily playing off them. Sometimes it's just repeating spots from earlier in the match. If they actually sold the spots like they were deliberately going for moves I could understand, but they don't slow down to signal that sort of thing.
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How can a match with something like 20 high impact moves and bugger all transitions not be a spotfest? It wasn't a bad match, but even if they built off their previous matches it was still spotty.
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Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (8/31/87) I liked this a lot. Jumbo upped his physicality and kept the "my pace" holds to a minimum. The submissions he did use were incorporated into the bout well and in general I thought he did a did a good job of working like the beast he should have been and not the stodgy ace that Baba preferred. I mean look at the size of the dude, he should have thrown people around more and monstered guys. He brought as much of that as he could do this bout and it was all the better for it. Tenryu was solid here, but it felt like Jumbo was the one leading the bout possibly because of how much he changed up his style. Wasn't sure how I felt about the finish. I didn't see the need to put Tenryu over, and the way they did it was less than convincing and gave Jumbo an easy out. I would have preferred to see Jumbo re-stamp his authority with an aggressive new wrestling style and hold off on a Tenryu win til later. But like we talked about before, Baba probably didn't have a plan in mind for where this was heading.
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Jimmy, you should check out the Orig Williams/Cullen vs. Rocco/Larsen tag from Reslo. Rocco carries Williams to the best bout I've seen from him.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 26 Clive Myers & Chris Bowles vs. Pete LaPaque & Tommy Lorne (1/3/85) If there was ever a British version of a Southern heel team then it had to have been The Rockers, Pete LaPaque and Tommy Lorne. Lorne, in particular, was made for the Southern style. Love the leather jackets with "Rockers" emblazoned on the back. Bowles was a multiple time British judo welterweight champion who turned pro after the 1980 Olympics. He looked pretty green despite five years in the biz and even the Southern styled Rockers couldn't do much with him. Myers provided his usual flashes of brilliance, and both LaPaque and Lorne had some fun exchanges with him, but it wasn't enough to give the bout much shape. Rollerball Rocco vs. Ian Wilson (Porthmadog, taped 1982) Rocco beat up some vet from the indy circuit. A couple of fun potato shots but that's all. Pete Ross vs. Elvis Jerome (11/2/83) Early on, a rugby result popped up on the screen saying England had beaten New Zealand 15-9. I immediately knew this was from 1983 since England beating NZ only happens once a decade. Farmer's Boy Pete Ross was channeling Pete Roberts here. A pretty good effort from a guy who's not a regular standout. Jerome was a lightweight making his television debut. He had a tremendous physique and was apparently an Elvis fanatic. A solid enough bout for what the promoters were looking to achieve, namely putting a new guy on TV. He only appeared one more time and that was it. I often wonder what happened to guys like him. Did they work the indies? Were they only in it part-time? Did the promoters see nothing in them? In this case, Wrestling Heritage says he worked the indies under his real name, Dave Cameron. Amusing that he'd go on TV and call himself Elvis. Rollerball Rocco & Dave Larsen vs. Chic Cullen & Orig Williams (Unknown location, taped 1983) The only reason I bothered to watch this was for the Rocco/Cullen exchanges, but it quickly turned into the best Orig Williams match I've seen. Rocco was a brilliant foil for Williams, who spent the entire bout shaking his fist at Rollerball and telling him he could have some if he wanted it. It was similar to the way Rocco's presence lifted Big Daddy tags whenever he was featured in them and another feather in his cap. Williams isn't quite as bad as Daddy but his matches are just as rubbish and for this to be as entertaining as it was is a testament to Rocco. It was actually Cullen who did all the hard work by taking a beating, but the dynamic worked great and Rocco flying out of the ring at the end was wild. He took Orig out with a tope and began brawling with him on the outside. I was itching for a Rocco/Bandito singles match after this. I don't think we got it (at least not on tape), but anything that makes me want to see more Orig Williams is a total success. Dave Larsen may or may not have been the 1960s Paul Lincoln wrestler who wrestled as Batman in France. Dave Finlay vs. Kung Fu (Caenarfon, taped 1988) This had more back and forth action than the usual Finlay snoozefest. They didn't really do anything to convey that Finlay taking on Kung Fu was special in any way, but given that Kung Fu was past his best at this stage and his gimmick a little tired, it wasn't too bad. -
Wrestler awareness of things not in their bubble
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in Pro Wrestling
Onita drawing 40,000 speaks volumes about the hardcore fan base at the time. The TV deal that FMW could have gotten in its early days wouldn't have made a lick of difference to ticket sales. In fact, Onita would have been better off appearing on the variety show circuit, which he may well have done, and probably plays a bigger part in the business than I suspect. You'd have to say there's been more eyeballs on Orton over the course of his career, but that has more to do with the WWE brand than his own drawing power. -
There's not much footage of Wright. There's a few matches of his from the early 70s where he was doing a wonderboy gimmick similar to early Alex Wright. He ended up working in Germany and Austria pretty much full time and unfortunately most of the German footage we have is either clipped or difficult to watch. There isn't a single match of his from Germany/Austria that I would consider worth watching. In 1986 he had a match against Marty Jones on ITV that's one of the best matches of the 80s. He works that match as a fake German, Bull Blitzer. IIRC, there's talk of a re-match at the end, but it never happened. Regal has said in the past that he ate guys alive and people were scared to work with him. I personally find him overrated. He's one of those guys like Saint who people are vaguely aware of and think is some great Euro worker despite the lack of footage to substantiate that idea. I'm sure there were nights when he was great, but we don't have the footage to support that.
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El Dandy vs. Bestia Salvaje, CMLL World Middleweight Championship, CMLL 9/4/92 Recently, I've only heard negative things about this bout, but it's really not that bad. It's not as good as it could have been; I'll throw that out there right now, but it's not terrible. Would it have been better as an apuesta match on the 1992 Anniversary show? Probably. Is it one of the the better title matches from the 90s? Nope. But is it one of the 90s' biggest disappointments? Not really. They forwent a traditional build and worked at an almost workrate-y pace, but I appreciated the athleticism and competitiveness of the opening fall, and I thought Bestia's pinning maneuver was cool even if Rangel treated it as a submission. The second fall was a straight-up response from Dandy. It didn't have the overlap that you typically find in a lucha match where the winner of the first fall keeps dominating until the loser seizes an opportunity, but Dandy wasn't about to be trifled with, and I appreciated the step-up in intensity. Probably the most glaring aspect of the match was the lengthy leg-lock they worked in the tercera caida that Dandy blew off to hit a tope. You don't usually see a submission last that long in lucha, and Bestia even had the good sense to sell the effects on his own legs when he finally released it. Dandy's selling was excellent while he was in the hold, but he was moving freely the rest of the way, which is unusual for a seller of Dandy's calibre. What was also strange about the leg lock was that it came during a caida where they'd gone for a straight back and forward; and while they hadn't transitioned into it well, they were at least keeping count with the right number of beats. The leg-lock gobbled up a fair number of beats, and so when Satanico grabbed Dandy's leg on a superplex to cause Bestia to fall on top, it didn't feel like the climax. Satanico's seconding was pretty cool in this bout, but I don't think it should have been the focal point and would have felt doubly so if I'd gone back and watched the build. Still, even with the bullshit finish I couldn't bring myself to hate the match. Perhaps if I'd watched it a few months ago and was expecting an all-time classic I would have ripped into it, but looking at the history of this belt after the bout, it seemed to get buried on Coliseo shows and wasn't given the respect that a great bout would have demanded. There were plenty of reasons to dislike the bout. The fact that it was the first show back at Arena Mexico after a nine week absence suggests it should have been a barn burner, but to me it was booked like one of those matches where the favourite comes unstuck on the eve of an important apuesta match casting doubt on whether he can regroup in time. That again made Bestia second fiddle to Satanico, but at least he got a title out of it. It's a three star match that should have been four, but it surprised me how much I didn't hate it. Perhaps this is the beginning of indifference.