ohtani's jacket

I enjoy a match every now and again when I think the match was good. I can't understand people who claim to enjoy everything they watch.

I'd just expect to see them later in the match.

The problem I see with that is that New Japan were bigger and made more money than All Japan.

Don't forget that Onita was flat bloke and labouring/doing delivery work to pay the bills until JWP gave him a salesman job. I dunno what it was with FMW, but it's kind of similar to Megumi Kudo working at a kindergarten/daycare between wrestling gigs. Return to civilian life then bleed for everyone's entertainment.

This is silly. In no way, shape or form is English considered "evil" in Japan.

Does that make Jumbo any less, I dunno, Kurt Angle-ish, during that stretch?

Are you kidding me? Djokovic is nowhere near as beloved as the great babyface champions like Bruno. There was an element of the fanbase that was delighted to see Wawrinka go over. History be damned.

I don't think Flair was physically dominant enough to be Serena. Serena doesn't really have the showmanship/charisma side to her to be Flair, either. If anything she's the Brock Lesnar of women's tennis if Brock Lesnar had won the world championship multiple times. Likewise, I can't see how Graf was Kawada. In Japanese wrestling terms, Graf was an ace, which would automatically make her Misawa to Seles' Kawada. My favourite women's player in recent times was Henin, who reminds me of Mayumi Ozaki. Both were short in stature, incredibly skilled and prone to flippant behaviour. My favourite player growing up was Arantxa Sánchez Vicario, but I can't think of a good comp for her.

In fairness to Baba, I'm not sure the perfect booker exists. They all tend to be reactionary, and when they stumble upon a good idea they milk it for every last cent. If they were able to prevent their product from stagnating, the business wouldn't be quite so cyclical. Even the Matsunagas, who deliberately retired their stars to prevent them from becoming stagnant, couldn't transition smoothly from one era to the next. Pro-wrestling is in essence show business, and certainly in Japan was competing with other forms of show biz for TV time. In any form of show biz it takes time for the next big thing to come along, and everything stagnates with time whether it's your favourite TV show, comic book run, sports team, musician or film director. Most pro-wrestling is shoddily booked, which makes Baba better than most, and I also think he has longevity in his favour as he was able to book a number of hot runs over 25 years. There were certain elements of his *promoting* that kept All Japan a solid number two, and he was certainly conservative, but so are "serious and stable" CMLL and they've survived longer than anybody, so is that inherently a bad thing? Another possible criticism of Baba as a booker was that he wasn't great at finishing angles he started, but again that's true of most bookers who don't have an end goal in sight. I wonder if ticket gates and nightly houses don't play a part in this. It's easy to apply film or literary criticism to wrestling and critique the lack of narrative structure, but unlike a film or a play, the booker is making it up as he goes along and not fretting over his story ideas until he's ready to show it to the public. Sure, it would be great if they had some idea of the bigger picture, but their deadline is tighter than any creative type with a nightly show to produce. I doubt many bookers in wrestling history have thought more than a few months ahead, and certainly none of them have had a final destination in mind.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 25 Mike Jordan vs. Spider-Man Ray Crawley (7/15/86) So, we've seen Dave Larsen wrestling as Batman in 60s French catch and now we have Ray Crawley doing a Spider-Man gimmick. As you can imagine, it's a homemade outfit with a spider drawn on it. I love the trunks as they're clearly wrestling trunks and have three white stripes on them. For some reason he's not wearing his mask this time, and yes he did wrestle one time on TV with a Spidey mask on. The cape makes him look like Superman, but other than that he wouldn't look amiss at Pavillón Azteca alongside Batman and Robin and all the other kids gimmicks. The gimmick was short-lived, at least on television, but the match itself wasn't half bad. They wrestled it as a straight up light heavyweight contest w/ Crawley wrestling like any other wrestler. Jordan looked sharp here and a lot of the stuff they did as fluid. After halfway through, it looked like there might be an injury finish when Crawley mistimed a move and landed on his shoulder (real or worked, I couldn't tell), but he kept wrestling and they finished the bout. Fans of the more kitsch side of wrestling may be disappointed that the gimmick didn't come into play more, but on the other hand it was fun watching a guy work the WoS style seriously in a Spider-Man getup. Scrubber Daly vs. Steve Logan (7/3/86) This went for longer than I was expecting and Daly brought I suppose what could be considered his "working boots." He was better than he looked in Daddy tags, but then Daddy tags have a way of dragging down everyone in them. Like many a brain-dead heel, he got himself stupidly disqualified in the finish, but this was surprisingly okay for a bout that could have been like pulling teeth. Bearcat Wright vs. Pete Collins (7/3/86) Pete Collins was another in a long line of useless brothers. I shouldn't be so mean, but there were a lot of average brothers in British wrestling. Walton was trying to pass Bernie Wright off as Canadian, but at least his Mad Max like beard and shaven head made him look completely unrecognisable from his former self. I think they were desperate for television heels as this point having lost many of their best ones to All-Star. It's too bad that Bernie Wright belonged to the useless brother category himself. "Bearcat" was a cool look, but not really a gimmick and he didn't have a character to speak of, and it was a waste of time pushing him on TV without those two things . King Ben vs. Ian McGregor (11/13/86) It's a bit weird seeing King Ben wrestle teenage wrestlers when they kept pushing that his own son was a teenage wrestler. Then again they had him wrestle his boy, which was even weirder. This was one of those bonus matches they tacked on at the end when there was time to fill. Utterly skippable. Keith Martinelli vs. Boston Blackie (Denbigh, taped 1988) Keith Martinelli was a great worker at one stage, but he'd faded by '88. Kind of sad to watch.

Well then, I'm not wrong. Jumbo could have taken the first two falls with any of those moves.

That Baba vs. Fritz match from '75 may be the most minimalist bout I've seen. It's built entirely around Baba's chop vs. Fritz' claw, and features two refs at ringside doing synchronized counting, one in red and the other in blue, which is odd enough in itself. But it's a pretty good bout, especially due to Fritz' cut, which leads to a lot of blood smeared chops. Fritz took a fair old beating. I wasn't expecting him to actually stay down, but he did, and Baba was declared the winner. Or outlasted him, as the case may be. Would have liked to have seen the stomach claw applied on Baba during the bout instead of post-match. That would have made for the one dramatic note the bout needed to make it less conceptual, but it was an interesting bout nonetheless.

He's more kinetic than anyone in the era he worked. He wrestles like he's on speed. The thing is, it's not entirely a work. Apparently, he was a terror to work with. Regal talks about thumbs to the eye and all sorts of accidental injuries from working Rocco's breakneck style.

Fritz vs. Baba was a fun match, but I don't think any of Fritz' kids had the look and build to be a heel the way Fritz was, and it as far easier to get over as a German heel in the 60s than it was the 80s. The exception was David, who was the overly aggressive as a babyface and would have made a great heel. Incidentally, does Fritz have the most gravelly voice ever? It sounds like he swallowed a cement mixer. I swear they used after effects on it.

Genichiro Tenryu vs. Isao Takagi (1/28/90) I'm not sure if this was the bout Jetlag was referring to, but I figure it must be since after Tenryu recovered from Takagi's initial attempt at creating a surprise upset, he dishes out a pretty Tenryu-esque beating. As with other bouts this length, Tenryu gave his opponent a ton of offence rather than drawing out his squash of said wrestler. Whether that's a good thing or not, I'm not sure. He grabbed for the chair here ,but at least he used it with some conviction. Takagi didn't look great on attack, which kind of defied the purpose of the bout, but at least this showed that Tenryu's crankiness was brewing as early as 1990.

I watched those matches last year or the year before. I enjoyed the series overall, but the law of diminishing returns began to apply. I guess I could watch them again with a view to how much Tenryu contributed.

The thing I love most about that McHoy match was that it was supposed to be Rocco vs. Kung Fu at the Royal Albet Hall, which was pretty much Dale Martin's equivalent of running the Garden. They even ran an angle for it on TV, which they hardly ever did. Then Kung Fu left them high and dry and Rocco has a catch weight with a guy nobody had even heard of and tears the place down. That really changed my opinion of Rocco. The Kung Fu bout that finally came about I'm Reslo is outstanding as well and a bout you should check out. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like me to rip.

Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Killer Khan & Riki Choshu (8/2/85) This was an absolute mess of a bout structurally, but it did put over the fact that just about anything could happen when Ishingun were involved. Jumbo just got destroyed here. He was bleeding heavily, had damage to his knee and elbow and was laid out about as badly as a Japanese ace is ever laid out. I surprised to see him put over Ishingun to that extent then he turned around and submitted to Hansen at the end of the month .August of '85 was a rough month for Jumbo Tsuruta. Those were some heavy looking kneedrops from Killer Khan. That had to have been at least 120 kg coming down on Jumbo's elbow and knee. Early on, Jumbo was doing his "my pace" bullshit while everyone else was looking to sprint, and everything after that was a chaotic blend of Riki Choshu's strong style and Killer Khan's more American flavoured brawling, but you can't really quibble with the beating Jumbo took. These matches are having less and less to do with Tenryu, however, so I think I'll wrap things up shortly.

He hit a backdrop suplex, a butterfly suplex and a gut wrench suplex in succession before turning another butterfly suplex atttempt into a submission. Are you telling me those throws wouldn't win a fall in a regular two out of three falls contest?

Terry Funk vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (4/4/80) Some boring headlock work from Jumbo to start with. For a guy who was an Olympian, Jumbo sure doesn't show much on the mat. Part of that was the house style, and part of it was the fact that the old-school mentality saw the side headlock as a solid base to work from. Jumbo looked really awkward transitioning from the headlock to the rope running. Way too early for an airplane spin, and Jumbo's back drop suplex? For a style that's often held up as the pinnacle of logic in wrestling, it sure could be spotty at times. Jumbo rips through a bunch of offence that would finish most falls in a bout during this era then slaps on a submission that wouldn't. Jumbo dicks around for a bit and then they don't show the strikes that let Terry transition back onto offence. They sounded good, though. Terry manages to somehow sell, set up a hold, fight through Jumbo's counter attempts, sell a bit more, signal to the crowd his intention, and out class Jumbo all at the same time. In defence of both guys, they just announced that 20 minutes had passed and we'd only seen 3/4 of that. Terry working Jumbo's foot in anticipation of the spinning toe hold was way more compelling than anything Tsuruta had done so far, and the escape was the highlight of the match to date. Now here's where it gets cool from a theoretical standpoint: the chop battle was cool, but Terry's selling would be ridiculed if it were any other worker. I didn't mind the circling jog from Jumbo's initial strike as it was reminiscent of Fujiwara, but the theatrical bump to the outside was over the top. How Terry survived two piledrivers, three elbow drops and a backbreaker in this era, I'll never know. Maybe he was on something. Terry's selling is unquestionably great. It looks like he's sucking in a breath every time he hits a move and when he headbutts Jumbo he sells the impact each and every time. The dropkick on the outside is a great moment and Terry sells the excursion beautifully. When he goes for a second one and misses it, everyone from the commentator to the crowd are in tune with the moment. And to be fair, from there they do their best to make the final minutes exciting. The duel brainbusters would be death in other eras and don'r really transition well into a punching exchange, but the crowd bite on a sunset flip attempt and Funk's double arm suplex. Some weird convulsive selling by Jumbo yet he has the stamina to reverse another double arm suplex into a backslide. The bell rings and they scrap a bit. The post-match is cool as they look like they could go another 10 rounds, which they probably could since no-one landed a decisive blow. Do I think this was an all-time classic? No. Do I think this was a great bout? Nope. Do I think it was an effective league bout? Yep. *** at tops.

Buddy Rogers vs. Pat O'Connor (6/30/61) Finally got around to watching this nearly two years after I started the thread. This had a heck of a lot more action than I was expecting. The first fall in particular was frenetic by the standards I was expecting. I loved the psychology of Rogers taking the first fall completely against the run of play. I would have liked to have seen him press his advantage a bit more during the second fall, but I'm not that familiar with him as a worker and don't know how much offence he had. O'Connor completely dominated the bout offensively .I'm not sure if that's because Rogers was going over, or because Rogers was the bumping, stooging type with little in the way of serious offence, but it as notable that he took the title on another mistake from O'Connor. I'm guessing that was Rogers' style and that dominant babyface champions were common back then. There was too much dissonance between the psychology in the first fall and the rest of the bout for me to view it as an all-time classic, and I would have liked to have seen a proper heat segment on O'Connor instead of Rogers backpedaling the entire match, but there was never a dull moment and it was a thoroughly entertaining bout in terms of the pace they set and the action that was delivered. Great promo by Rogers afterward.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 24 Can't believe I've watched 24 hours of this stuff. Kung Fu vs. Johnny Palance (Unknown location, taped 1985) It's everyone's favourite Jack Palance look-alike. He wrestled a smart match from his point of view, looking to keep Kung Fu grounded and prevent him from running the ropes too much. But it wasn't very exciting for the audience, most of whom wanted to see Kung Fu fly about. Kung Fu never really cut loose, and the match never went anywhere as a result. John Quinn vs. Steve Taylor (Unknown location, taped 1983) John Quinn was a smart worker. He knew exactly how a big man should work both on offence and when selling, and was able to blur the lines between all-in wrestling and freestyle rules thanks to his extensive experience in UK rings. Probably the last of the great visiting wrestlers. He was hurt a bit by being off TV as he had such a great television gimmick, but pacing Steve Taylor through a decent contest showed his ring work had gotten even better in All-Star. Mal Sanders, Lucky Gordon & Steve Peacock vs. Clive Myers, Mick McMichael & Young David (2/2/81) British workers were hopeless at six-man tags, but this is one of the better ones I've seen. That surprised me as it didn't look that good on paper. McMichael played the veteran ring general and threw his weight around a lot; Gordon and Peacock did an excellent job stooging for the athleticism of Myers and Young David; and blue-eye Sanders not wanting to be on the same team as the heels made for an interesting wrinkle. At just over 10 minutes it didn't outstay its welcome and was a lot snappier than these Davis Cup-like six-mans usually are. Thumbs up all round. Shaun South vs. Patrick Lopez (Merthyr, taped 2/4/92) South gave rugby man Lopez the "up yours" to start with. Plenty of stalling again, but South was having none of that and spent most of the bout beating the snot out of Lopez. For some reason there was a chain and handcuffs hanging over the turnbuckle since that's a good place to leave them, and after a brief comeback from Lopez, South thought "stuff the purse" and got himself DQ'd for using the chain then bodyslamming Lopez on it. Needless to say, not much of a match.

Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen & Ted Dibiase (8/31/85) This was a solid match. It was a bit heatless at first due to Ted not being a known quantity, but as soon as Jumbo began charging about the crowd came to life. Really clever finish to have Hansen and Dibiase target the arm damage caused by Jumbo clotheslining Ted. Ripping off the elbow protector and targeting the arm made for some great visuals, and to my great surprise they went all the way with it w/ Jumbo actually submitting from the damage that had been inflicted. He took forever to submit, and I was worried that Tenryu would break it up or Hansen would grow frustrated and get himself DQ'ed, but he finally submitted. It was a few beats too long, but guys almost never submit in Japan, and that sort of situation is almost always a "nearfall," so to speak, or a teased finish, so it was cool to see it actually come off and end a match. Certainly made it more memorable than it would have been with a count out or DQ.

I said long tag matches.

I haven't been checking the match times so some of the matches may be longer or shorter than they seem, but to me the matches where Tenryu tagged with Kawada were far more enjoyable than the more important tag league or championship bouts because they had a tighter narrative structure. It may be an issue of scope rather than length, and hierarchy has a part to play in it too as it's easier to work traditional narratives when there's a junior partner involved, but I'd classify 25 minutes plus as going long in this style. The way I see it, because the matches don't have a Southern style FIP structure, and mat work is practically non-existent by this point, it's difficult to fill in the opening portions. There's a lot of back and forth until it's time to hit the stretch run, but the moves they use would be reserved for the finishing stretch in most Southern style tags. That invariably leads to a game of "can you top this?" which becomes repetitive after a while. The benefit of a shorter match is that you can shorten the opening stanzas and get to the stretch run sooner. The only way to really make a longer match compelling is to have a killer hook, but nine times out of ten the hook is one of the wrestlers violently attacking the other and you can't throw those shock tactics out in every match. You could maybe argue that All Japan tags have a slow build to a hot finishing stretch, but I'd argue with the 'build' part. I haven't watched 6/9/95 and 12/6/96 in donkey's years, but I don't remember liking them any less the last time I saw them. I have no use whatsoever for the hour long matches they were having in the 90s, though. An hour long tag is an abomination as far as I'm concerned. They shouldn't happen, ever. I don't have a favourite AJPW tag off the top of my head. As for whether it was always the case, if you encouraged me to watch a long ass Baba/Jumbo vs. Funks tag, I can't imagine that being enticing.