ohtani's jacket

I don't know if it's a commonly held view. It's my personal opinion. The execution is maestro matches is often poor or slow and the matches generally aren't structured well.

I'm honestly not sure what the standards are in this thread. Given that no one is listing Hogan, Dusty, Rock, and guys like that, it seems like it isn't about look or reaction and is based on in-ring actions. "Great matches" has been listed as a criterion, but even though people are primarily listing highly regarded workers I don't think it's simply "who was the best worker of all the people who were faces?" In any case, I'm not sure it matters all that much for Atlantis. Would you really bat an eyelid if someone called him a better worker than Lizmark but a worse tecnico, or if they called him a worse worker but a better tecnico? Atlantis seems fairly close to all four of those guys both as a worker and as a tecnico (although I know you found Rambo more likeable than Villano III). It's probably easier to judge Solar and Villano as tecnicos than as workers, though, just because of footage limitations. As I said earlier, I can see the argument that Dandy's not a pure tecnico, but who was? Atlantis, Lizmark, and El Hijo del Santo, obviously. I assume Villano III and Angel Azteca continued to be pure tecnicos after they unmasked (when they were tecnicos - I don't know if they ever had any runs as rudos). What about Javier Cruz, Americo Rocca, and Ringo Mendoza? Dandy didn't seem to be presented all that differently from them. I'm limited by my lousy Spanish, but, even though Dandy's rudo past did seem to get mentioned and pop up in his character (the feud with Azteca, cheating to beat Satanico and Fiera, and I'm not sure but I think after that time he hanged Fiera he got asked in a post-match interview if he was still a tecnico), he still seemed a lot closer to Atlantis than to tecnico Perro. Regardless of whether he's a pure tecnico, I brought him up mostly because I think that he's a better babyface than Atlantis - better seller, better at getting fired up, better wrestler, and his character just came across as sharper than Atlantis'. A lot of food for thought here. I've always bunched Atlantis together with Lizmark, Solar, and at times Santo in terms of classical masked luchadores in the modern era. Azteca I think was the heir apparent as you know. All of them came after the glory days of the lucha mags. Atlantis got a strong push on debut and then settled into a sort of consistent presence, but as a hardcore fan watching what limited footage we have, I think he held up the tecnico end of a lot of matches w/out being the focal guy that Dandy was in his various feuds. To me that's a different strength or skill than Dandy presented. I know I said it before, but they're different types of babyfaces. Dandy had a run where he was the man. I don't think Atlantis had the charisma to reach that level. He had a different sort of appeal. To that extent, Dandy was better, but I think he faded fairly quickly. If we're being honest, is he as relevant after 1990 as he was during that run? CMLL chose not to push him as strongly, but he also gained weight and what not. Atlantis has a lot of horrible stuff admittedly. A lot of his apuesta feuds in the early 90s suck and he disappears off the radar a lot during the lost years of '93-95, but how do we factor in his longevity and his later apuesta matches against Villano and Ultimo Guerrero? I sometimes think if he hit the maestro circuit more people wouldn't doubt him as much as a worker.

Not really. I forget who coined the term. Perhaps Phil Schneider? A maestro in lucha (as best I can tell) either refers to a trainer or a guy with a lot of experience and technical expertise. The way we use the term is a vet who works an older, often mat based style of lucha that is rarely seen in the contemporary product. It tends to have an old-school feel to it even though it's far more exhibition-y than old-school lucha libre and is marked by slow or poor execution that is offset by the workers having the right idea or trying to work lucha the classic way. The other clear indicator is that it happens on the indy circuit and is usually handheld footage.

Unfortunately, that match was taken down off YouTube and Ditch doesn't host it, so I'm waiting patiently for a re-up. In the meantime, some SWS... Genichiro Tenryu & Samson Fuyuki vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Shinichi Nakano (7/26/91) This was a good little match; no doubt about that. It actually reminded me of an All Japan tag in terms of the pacing and even the structure and lay out were reminiscent of an All Japan match. It clearly wasn't as good as All Japan, but at the same time it as noticeably different from WAR. Shinichi Nakano gave a spirited performance, and I actually thought he played the most important role here at least during the body of the match. Tenryu threw him around like a rag doll and he bumped well for his superior, but he was also sprightly on offence and meshed well with Fuyuki. Tenryu and Yatsyu were a lot more lively here than in their methodically paced singles bout and had one eye on the prize and one eye on each other. The finish was madness with Yatsu going batshit insane with a chair, the ref not disqualifying him, Fuyuki blading admirably, and Yatsu not really having much grounds to be held back as Tenryu hit the power bomb on Nakano. Good stuff.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 16 Karl Kramer vs. Gary Clwyd (Cage match, Beaumaris, taped 3/7/91) Whew, that Karl Kramer was a big boy. This wasn't an outstanding match, but it was a decent attempt at incorporating the gimmick into the match and they seemed to have a better sense of what to actually do with, and inside, the cage than a lot of the other wrestlers. Shaun South vs. Franz Schumann (Chain match, Newcastle Emlyn, taped 2/5/92) This was about as good a chain match as you could hope to see on terrestrial TV. It was wrestled under the Pirate Fight rules we've seen before in Germany and Belgium (iirc) -- a sort of cross between a chain and flag match. Both guys gave as good as they got, and South even appeared to bleed hard way. This was Schumman's first appearance in the Arthur Psycho Hour and he made an immediate impact and veteran South still had something left in the tank even in '92. Gems like this make it worth wading through the late period TV Psycho puts up. Marty Jones vs. Skull Murphy (Cage match, Beaumaris, taped 3/7/91) This would have been a main event anywhere in the UK in the mid-80s, but in '91 it was a rubbish six or seven minute cage match. Masked Marauders vs. Orig Williams & Bryn Fon (Porthmadog, taped 1987) This was a special tag match featuring Orig Williams teaming with the Reslo television commentator Bryn Fon. Don't ask me why I bothered watching this. I wanted to see the Welsh version of Hogan teaming with Mean Gene, I guess. Just awful. Fit Finlay vs. Danny Boy Collins (9/6/88) This was from some VHS tape hosted by Mick McManus and a commentator whose name I couldn't quite make out (Lee Banda, or something like that.) It was basically an All-Star show taped at the Fairfield Halls at Croydon. A. Psycho gives a pretty amusing description of the pre-match vignette: "Before the match we see Collins limbering up and Paula giving Finlay a pre-fight massage. I was quite relieved when he moved his hand to see that he had [under] pants on. Equally so that Mick McManus interrupted them before he was tempted to ask for a happy ending." Mick's hair was so jet black that he looked like Bela Lugosi when he popped up on the screen. This was a pretty standard Finlay heel performance, but the crowd were right into it and it was a decent match. The commentary was an interesting deviation from the standard Walton fare, as they pointed out Paula's wrestling career, which Walton always ignored as Dale Martin didn't feature women's wrestling and her wrestling career occurred entirely on the rarely mentioned indy circuit. (She was always refereed to as Finlay's wife and manager by Walton.) They also pointed out that Collins had suffered from kidney problems the year before and had one of them removed and how he defied the odds to return to the ring (even pointing out the surgical scar.) I don't recall Walton ever sharing that information. Aside from the stock Finlay cheating and the Paula shtick, they worked this around the premise that Finlay was a monster and Collins a boy and that Finlay was used to wrestling much bigger men in the UK and Continental Europe. Again, nothing outstanding, but it had good heat and was well worked for the paying audience.

I thought this got off to a decent start even if their takedowns were super slow and it was more about gamesmanship than the awesome physical confrontation it could have been, but then the bullshit started. If you ever wanted to see Tenryu's foot then this is the match for you, I guess. Taking off his boot and working over his foot wasn't a bad visual motif considering how often Tenryu kicks guys, but it didn't fit the mood of the opening few minutes, and there was nothing to really trigger it or set it up as for the most part Goto had gotten the better of the early exchanges. The switch from Goto using his surprising speed and agility to play a little mind games with Tenryu to ripping off his boot was disjointed. Tenryu doing his "soccer ball kicks" with only one boot on was pretty cool, however. And then all of the rubbish began with Goto wandering off into the crowd to beat up WAR wrestlers, the bottle, Goto taking out the ref, Tenryu hobbling about on one foot and throwing the bell to the ground to demand a restart, and a wrestler stepping in to ref the match until the original ref returned all bandaged up. Clearly they were going for a spectacle, but Goto was a good enough worker that they could have had a regular Tenryu style main event and it would have been fine. Once the ref returned, they settled into a more traditional build, but they repeated a lot of the same moves and by then I didn't care and wanted the match to end. Tenryu did hit a particularly nasty jumping back elbow that made a loud clunking sound when it connected, but even then there was a moment of awkwardness where he looked at the ref like "are you gonna check on him?" before taking the bout home. Not one of the better Tenryu matches.

Genichiro Tenryu vs. Tarzan Goto (7/6/97) I thought this got off to a decent start even if their takedowns were super slow and it was more about gamesmanship than the awesome physical confrontation it could have been, but then the bullshit started. If you ever wanted to see Tenryu's foot then this is the match for you, I guess. Taking off his boot and working over his foot wasn't a bad visual motif considering how often Tenryu kicks guys, but it didn't fit the mood of the opening few minutes, and there was nothing to really trigger it or set it up as for the most part Goto had gotten the better of the early exchanges. The switch from Goto using his surprising speed and agility to play a little mind games with Tenryu to ripping off his boot was disjointed. Tenryu doing his "soccer ball kicks" with only one boot on was pretty cool, however. And then all of the rubbish began with Goto wandering off into the crowd to beat up WAR wrestlers, the bottle, Goto taking out the ref, Tenryu hobbling about on one foot and throwing the bell to the ground to demand a restart, and a wrestler stepping in to ref the match until the original ref returned all bandaged up. Clearly they were going for a spectacle, but Goto was a good enough worker that they could have had a regular Tenryu style main event and it would have been fine. Once the ref returned, they settled into a more traditional build, but they repeated a lot of the same moves and by then I didn't care and wanted the match to end. Tenryu did hit a particularly nasty jumping back elbow that made a loud clunking sound when it connected, but even then there was a moment of awkwardness where he looked at the ref like "are you gonna check on him?" before taking the bout home. Not one of the better Tenryu matches.

Can somebody confirm whether this is actually a different match from their 7/21/96 bout? I tried downloading this off Ditch's site and it was the same match as the '96 link. I can't find a record for it on the catchmatch site or a match listing for it on Lorefice's site and the match Childs described above is the same as the '96 bout. Plus July 21st was a Monday that year which is an odd time to run a show.

You're going to have to do some apples-to-oranges comparisons when determining the best babyface ever. Even then, I think Dandy stands out from maskless tecnicos more than Atlantis does from masked tecnicos. Hijo del Santo and Lizmark could conceivably rate above Atlantis. Solar and Villano III probably have backers. Dandy's competition is... tecnico Casas? Other than him, the maskless tecnicos who are as good as Dandy at the babyface aspects of being a tecnico are guys like Brazo de Plata. I think this is a difficult argument to have because if you compare Atlantis to Santo, Lizmark, Solar or Villano what are you basing the comparison on? I think most people base it instinctively on who they like as a worker not how well they work as a babyface. What are you thinking about specifically? Selling? Appealing to the crowd? Match structure? Who has the best look? Who drew the biggest reactions? Or are you thinking more about the tecnico role in trios matches and what not? Or the tecnico side of an apuestas bout? For me, without speaking Spanish and not being part of the lucha culture proper (magazines, attending shows, talking to fans, etc.), it's hard to know who was really the best of the workers above, though I suspect Santo has more of an argument and Solar less of one. As for Dandy's competition, maybe a rudo Sangre Chicana eliciting sympathy? I guess that doesn't really count. Perro working tecnico? Something about Dandy being the best pure tecnico doesn't really sit right with me. It's not that he was a natural rudo. I think he as a great tecnico, but like Frankensteiner it's hard to think of him as a pure tecnico.

This was all right, but I kind of wanted it to be cooler than it was. Realistically, it was a few years too late as Fujiwara had lost a lot of muscle mass since that run he had in New Japan in '93-94. In the beginning I thought he was a bit frail looking and was worried for him when Tenryu laid in his shots; then he pummeled him back twice as hard and I felt a little foolish. Even at this age he was still a pretty dangerous man. The match was a tournament bout, which put a cap on how special it could be. Fujiwara toyed with Tenryu on the mat while still having one eye on a legit submission chance. He played a sort of bastard heel role and threw in some carny shit and even an audible "fuck" at one point. Tenryu bled from his favourite spot, and used his strikes and sumo technique to fight his way out of trouble as usual. Fujiwara backed off a lot of the strikes, showing glimpses of why he was such a great defensive wrestler, but he was a lot slower than in years gone by and his counters didn't really have the same snap to them. Tenryu sold pretty well and hit pretty hard, but Tenryu sells pretty well and hits pretty hard in every match. The mat work was okay, but it's not one of Tenryu's strong points and all he can really do down low is sell well. The finish would have worked better if Tenryu had hit a power bomb or enziguri after dazing Fujiwara instead of going straight for a cover, but i guess it was meant to be a flash pin. Would have liked to have seen this match in '93 or '94.

Genichiro Tenryu vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara (11/27/97) This was all right, but I kind of wanted it to be cooler than it was. Realistically, it was a few years too late as Fujiwara had lost a lot of muscle mass since that run he had in New Japan in '93-94. In the beginning I thought he was a bit frail looking and was worried for him when Tenryu laid in his shots; then he pummeled him back twice as hard and I felt a little foolish. Even at this age he was still a pretty dangerous man. The match was a tournament bout, which put a cap on how special it could be. Fujiwara toyed with Tenryu on the mat while still having one eye on a legit submission chance. He played a sort of bastard heel role and threw in some carny shit and even an audible "fuck" at one point. Tenryu bled from his favourite spot, and used his strikes and sumo technique to fight his way out of trouble as usual. Fujiwara backed off a lot of the strikes, showing glimpses of why he was such a great defensive wrestler, but he was a lot slower than in years gone by and his counters didn't really have the same snap to them. Tenryu sold pretty well and hit pretty hard, but Tenryu sells pretty well and hits pretty hard in every match. The mat work was okay, but it's not one of Tenryu's strong points and all he can really do down low is sell well. The finish would have worked better if Tenryu had hit a power bomb or enziguri after dazing Fujiwara instead of going straight for a cover, but i guess it was meant to be a flash pin. Would have liked to have seen this match in '93 or '94.

Well, Atlantis was a masked luchador and idol to the kids. I think you have to compare him with other masked stars.

It seems one of the great shames of Tenryu's career that he spent two years of his 90s prime working feuds like this. I guess if you want to put a positive spin on it, you can truly say he visited everywhere and fought everyone, but I can think of a ton of Tenryu I'd rather see than an exploding death match. I don't get the appeal of Onita. There are times when he comes across as convincing such as in his mic performances or when he's dishing out a beating, but for the most part his stuff is like watching an Asian B film. I thought I was back on an 80s film project watching old Hong Kong action flicks the way he his hair was blowing about in the night breeze. I didn't think much of his selling in this. Offensively he was physically broken down, but selling is supposed to be his calling card. I really hated each and every one of his close-ups after a count of two. I know he was trying to sell how close it was to three, but that sort of wide eyed gaze makes it seem like you're not that out of it to begin with. I've really come to appreciate the subtlety to a lot of Tenryu's selling, particularly his grimacing, so I felt like Onita was overacting a bit much like a B film actor. The backdrop for this was really pretty with the sun setting behind the baseball stadium (which is probably the prettiest Kawasaki gets, as it's kind of an ugly city.) I'm not all that familiar with FMW so I found the ring announcer odd. He sounded like a character from GeGeGe no Kitaro. The ref wearing googles was goofy. I don't know why Tenryu was wearing a belt. It didn't seem to play into the belt and his back wasn't highlighted in the pre-match video (unlike that goofy net he wore over his injured forehead or the oh so 90s angle of ripping up a VHS tape at the press conference.) I guess he had some sort of legitimate back strain going into the bout. Another thing I strongly disliked was Onita's theme music. That's a terrible cover of Wild Thing. The match itself was divided into two halves: the first half where they were avoiding being whipped or thrown into the barbed wire, and the second half where they'd taken a few explosions and were much the worse for wear. The first half made sense from a psychological standpoint, but got old pretty fast. The second half was full of those close-ups I hated and too many power bomb attempts from Tenryu. I can't find the tag match that set this up online, but from the pre-match highlights the power bomb was a theme in the match with Goto and Hara, but four power bombs is overkill. Tenryu's extreme reluctance to take a bump into the wire, while understandable, also hurt the bout as it felt like they were running away from the gimmick at times. Even the bump he did take was pretty soft compared to the ones Onita took. A regular match without the cage would have been better. Tenryu bleeding didn't have much effect and watching him spread the blood with his sweaty wristband was a business exposing close-up from the video director. For some reason, the bout was really long and Tenryu won. I don't get why Tenryu won unless Onita often suffered losses like these where he looked honorable in defeat. I watched this twice and was indifferent to it both times.

Genichiro Tenryu vs. Atsushi Onita (Exploding whatever, 5/5/94) It seems one of the great shames of Tenryu's career that he spent two years of his 90s prime working feuds like this. I guess if you want to put a positive spin on it, you can truly say he visited everywhere and fought everyone, but I can think of a ton of Tenryu I'd rather see than an exploding death match. I don't get the appeal of Onita. There are times when he comes across as convincing such as in his mic performances or when he's dishing out a beating, but for the most part his stuff is like watching an Asian B film. I thought I was back on an 80s film project watching old Hong Kong action flicks the way he his hair was blowing about in the night breeze. I didn't think much of his selling in this. Offensively he was physically broken down, but selling is supposed to be his calling card. I really hated each and every one of his close-ups after a count of two. I know he was trying to sell how close it was to three, but that sort of wide eyed gaze makes it seem like you're not that out of it to begin with. I've really come to appreciate the subtlety to a lot of Tenryu's selling, particularly his grimacing, so I felt like Onita was overacting a bit much like a B film actor. The backdrop for this was really pretty with the sun setting behind the baseball stadium (which is probably the prettiest Kawasaki gets, as it's kind of an ugly city.) I'm not all that familiar with FMW so I found the ring announcer odd. He sounded like a character from GeGeGe no Kitaro. The ref wearing googles was goofy. I don't know why Tenryu was wearing a belt. It didn't seem to play into the belt and his back wasn't highlighted in the pre-match video (unlike that goofy net he wore over his injured forehead or the oh so 90s angle of ripping up a VHS tape at the press conference.) I guess he had some sort of legitimate back strain going into the bout. Another thing I strongly disliked was Onita's theme music. That's a terrible cover of Wild Thing. The match itself was divided into two halves: the first half where they were avoiding being whipped or thrown into the barbed wire, and the second half where they'd taken a few explosions and were much the worse for wear. The first half made sense from a psychological standpoint, but got old pretty fast. The second half was full of those close-ups I hated and too many power bomb attempts from Tenryu. I can't find the tag match that set this up online, but from the pre-match highlights the power bomb was a theme in the match with Goto and Hara, but four power bombs is overkill. Tenryu's extreme reluctance to take a bump into the wire, while understandable, also hurt the bout as it felt like they were running away from the gimmick at times. Even the bump he did take was pretty soft compared to the ones Onita took. A regular match without the cage would have been better. Tenryu bleeding didn't have much effect and watching him spread the blood with his sweaty wristband was a business exposing close-up from the video director. For some reason, the bout was really long and Tenryu won. I don't get why Tenryu won unless Onita often suffered losses like these where he looked honorable in defeat. I watched this twice and was indifferent to it both times.

I'm not sure what's more remarkable here: John responding to a post that's over three years old or Parv's odd disappointment with PWO. Anyway, analyzing 6/3/94 hardly seems paramount unless somehow has something new to add.

Genichiro Tenryu, Nobutaku Araya & Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Nobuhiko Takada, Masahito Kakihara & Naoki Sano (7/20/96) This was a decent six man. It won't make you forget those All Japan six-mans and it was part of a one night six-man tournament so it didn't build to any amazing crescendo, but it featured a lot of workers that folks around here like and it was an important match in terms of teasing Tenryu vs. Takada without really delivering on it if you know what I mean. Tenryu delivered a bit of a cheap shot on Takada by punching him when he was blindsided. Takada knocked Tenryu down with a flurry of kicks similar to their singles matches. And they both broke up each other's pin or submission attempts. Meanwhile, the others worked pretty hard to make sure they weren't just accessories to the angle. There wasn't really anything outstanding from the other players, but everything they did was good. Ultimately, it was a tournament match and bouts like that have a glass ceiling, but it was consistently good the whole way through without ever really blowing you away.

I was under the impression that this would be more of a worked shoot than it really was. Tenryu, for his part, worked it as a pro-wrestling match under UWF rules, while Takada, to his credit, worked each of the matches differently and did his best here to remain true to the shoot style credo. I don't like seeing pro-wrestlers do shoot style anymore than I like seeing pro-wrestlers decimated in PRIDE fights, but watching Tenryu bouts has become a hobby of mine in recent weeks and I kind of had to swallow my disbelief that Takada wouldn't destroy Tenryu under UWF rules if this were a realistic worked shoot. Tenryu fighting through the guard to deliver forearm smashes was cool. Tenryu bleeding from Takada's knees to the head was awesome. He also ate Takada's kicks extremely well. Tenryu doing pro-wrestling moves... not so cool... Tenryu chasing Takada outside the ring and back in... not so cool... The matwork was slightly better than the WAR bout to the extent that Takada varied the bout of attack, but it was still weaker than the stand-up. I guess if they'd worked stand-up only it would have made for a pretty short bout, however. The final submission was poorly worked and tough to buy as a legit finisher, but again I wouldn't peg this as anything less than good. The WAR bout was better because it was clearly a pro-wrestling bout without any expectations of what should happen in a UWF bout, and it was also the more dramatic of the two. Tenryu wasn't bad in this, but he was a little weaker than he was on his home turf. If you're into star ratings, I'd go *** on this and *** 1/2 on the rematch.

I suspect it's online. I'm certain there are torrents of it. Ditch may also have it. I found the Bushido version of it on YouTube. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Nobuhiko Takada (9/11/96) I was under the impression that this would be more of a worked shoot than it really was. Tenryu, for his part, worked it as a pro-wrestling match under UWF rules, while Takada, to his credit, worked each of the matches differently and did his best here to remain true to the shoot style credo. I don't like seeing pro-wrestlers do shoot style anymore than I like seeing pro-wrestlers decimated in PRIDE fights, but watching Tenryu bouts has become a hobby of mine in recent weeks and I kind of had to swallow my disbelief that Takada wouldn't destroy Tenryu under UWF rules if this were a realistic worked shoot. Tenryu fighting through the guard to deliver forearm smashes was cool. Tenryu bleeding from Takada's knees to the head was awesome. He also ate Takada's kicks extremely well. Tenryu doing pro-wrestling moves... not so cool... Tenryu chasing Takada outside the ring and back in... not so cool... The matwork was slightly better than the WAR bout to the extent that Takada varied the bout of attack, but it was still weaker than the stand-up. I guess if they'd worked stand-up only it would have made for a pretty short bout, however. The final submission was poorly worked and tough to buy as a legit finisher, but again I wouldn't peg this as anything less than good. The WAR bout was better because it was clearly a pro-wrestling bout without any expectations of what should happen in a UWF bout, and it was also the more dramatic of the two. Tenryu wasn't bad in this, but he was a little weaker than he was on his home turf. If you're into star ratings, I'd go *** on this and *** 1/2 on the rematch.

It's funny you mention the style is dead because the last time I watched a significant amount of modern Joshi, which was from the '06-08 period, it seemed like they hadn't moved on a lot from 1993. If the 1993 style is dead perhaps it's because there's no audience. Workrate Joshi was a thrilling live product but you can't do much with it without an audience. I think 1993 is being unfairly singled out here, though, as Joshi grew much worse from '94-96 in terms of excess.

Kandori, yes. Hokuto, no.

I probably didn't express that very well since it's the early hours of the morning over here. There's a way that Joshi puroresu has always been worked, a way these girls were trained to work, and a way the audience wanted to see and the girls wanted to work. People may or may not like it, but it's a style that developed and evolved over time and has certain tropes and conventions and in-built expectations. If you don't like the style, or you only enjoy it when it's reeled in, I can understand that, but I think there's a philosophical debate here about whether workers who work in a non-traditional way are objectively better than the standard bearers for the more traditional style. I mean saying you like this girl or that girl because they wrestle more like other workers you like is fine, but claiming Satomura is better than some of the biggest names in the game in one of the best years of its history is a pretty big claim and I'm not sure how it stacks up from an objective stand point of what Joshi workers set out to do. The degree to which Satomura is a non-traditional worker is something that would have to be fleshed out if the discussion is to continue because I have to get ready for work, but the reason I highlighted that comment as the crux of the argument is that we all know restraint isn't a hallmark of Joshi puroresu. So if Satomura is a more restrained worker then she's slightly less traditional.

Unfortunately, I'm restricted by whether the footage is online or not. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Tatsumi Fujinami (12/15/93) I'm glad I went back and watched this as the Tenryu vs. Fujinami dynamic was a fun subplot in the WAR vs. NJPW feud and this felt like a more complete match in lieu of their failed '96 bout. It also followed on chronologically from that electric 10/93 tag where Fujinami bled a lot. It wasn't quite as spirited as the opening to the '96 bout, but the sparks were there. The main problem was the length as they ran through enough stuff to fill a 20 minute match in only 12 minutes or so. They weren't really on the same page to start with either. Tenryu wanted to move straight into striking and punting away at Fujinami's eye, and Fujinami was trying to work from the typical NJPW base of stationary headlocks and leglocks that go nowhere. As usual, Tenryu sold well, and did a lot of cool detail work like pounding away on Fujinami's foot to try to break the hold, but in a semi-sprint like this those sort of holds ought to be scrapped. You add those to a longer bout, IMO, to flesh it out and give you more breathing space. By the time they started trading strikes, they'd entered into the home stretch and were mixing in a lot of counters and reversals that were a bit awkward for these workers. They were kind of tripping over themselves down the straight and the execution was hard to ignore on this occasion. Not really the bout I was looking for from these guys, but at only 12 mins it didn't take long to watch.

I think that's the crux of the argument. Meiko wrestles a style you like, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's the best at working Joshi puroresu the way it's traditionally been worked. It's like those people who don't like lucha, but think that 55 year-old Negro Casas is one of the best in the world. Kansai was the ace of JWP. JWP was a promotion that some of us followed closely because it had a "little promotion that could" vibe about it. She had some annoying tendencies like most Joshi workers, but she was also in some great matches both in JWP and AJW.

Misawa, Hashimoto, Tenryu, Akira Maeda, Chigusa Nagayo and Akira Hokuto spring to mind. Ric Flair as well. Perro Aguayo. Jumbo Tsuruta. Liger in his weight class. Riki Choshu.

If you're talking about a TV studio setting then Tully Blanchard is my favourite. If it's matches filmed for TV then Steve Grey is my pick.