ohtani's jacket

Well it depends on how they work it. The story could be something like "here are two big dominant teams, used to overpowering their opponents with high impact offense, but neither of them has have faced a team like THIS before!" That's not a story; it's a situation. Situations are part of stories but not stories in and of themselves. If that was enough story for a wrestling match you could argue that almost all matches tell a story since wrestlers usually have motivation for disliking each other or wanting to win. You could almost guarantee that the Steiners and Road Warriors would not take that premise and work it into a story. They're not the type that seem capable.

The idea of Hogan carrying Orton would blow a few minds.

Just working a spotfest doesn't tell a story. The Steiners and Road Warriors are roided up power wrestlers so they do a spotfest where they trade power moves isn't a story. It's just a match with a series of moves that starts from a beginning and builds to a conclusion, but there's no real story in there.

You should watch the one Billy Robinson WoS bout we have on tape and see how it differs from the US and Japan stuff he was doing at the time. It's a bout against a young fella named Lee Bronson, which disappointed some of the fans over at Wrestling Heritage who would have rather seen him take on a bigger name.

I'm trying to think but nothing springs to mind immediately. If there was a guy who used suplexes regularly then I imagine it would have been his specialty and used to end a fall. I doubt if McManus ever threw a suplex. The guys who did more moves in the 70s were the new breed of workers like Rocco and Jones. The older guys were a thousand years old and did the same shtick they'd been at since the 50s.

It's like anything else, it just comes down to how much you like the workers. The more people like someone the more forgiving they are. Spotfests can be great. I had a whale of a time watching the No Mercy tag the other day. I just don't want to watch them all the time like some fans do.

Except for all those real fights that were exciting as shit.

First you said worked grappling wasn't realistic enough then you said real grappling is boring as shit. I take that to mean that you don't like worked grappling regardless of how realistic it is. But doesn't that mean you should dislike everything from Verne Gagne vs Thesz through to this Thatcher stuff? Any time anybody works a hold in wrestling they're misapplying it.

Tully's Southwest stuff is worth watching if you're a fan of his, but not if you've got a bunch of other stuff on the go. You basically see the roots of his Crockett stuff and watch as he develops into ind of the great studio match workers.

I find Daniel Bryan or any number of others to produce more realistic looking pro wrestling matches than they do. I find a punch from Goldust more realistic looking than Thatcher's grappling. I literally just spent two hours on the mats watching far more realistic grappling. The most realistic looking pro-wrestling bouts historically have been catch-as-catch bouts. No matter what sport you train in that remains true.

They're trying to have as reaistic a pro-wrestling match as possible not as realistic a fight as possible.

They did pair Breaks up with a lot of the newer talent (along with Sid Cooper), but it's accentuated by the footage TWC aired. Breaks had lengthy television feuds with Steve Grey then Young David, Alan Dennison and Danny Boy Collins in the period you've been covering.

Marty Jones vs. Skull Murphy (12/3/82) These two had great working chemistry together. Jones was easily Murphy's best opponent and has single-handedly raised my opinion of him since Murphy seems to add one or two little touches to their bouts that I never notice in his fights against other people. This was on its way to being a great bout when Jones slipped on some water that had been left on the canvas from the previous bout. As far as injury finishes go it was pretty well done as I was in two minds as to whether it was real at first. The ref called it a no contest, which of course Murphy found incredulous. Marty Jones vs. King Kendo (8/8/84) This was Marty against the fake Kendo Nagasaki. The fake was a guy named Bill Clarke who ripped off Nagasaki's gimmick on the independent circuit to the point where he pretended to be him. After considerable legal action from Peter Thornely (Kendo Nagasaki), he ditched the name but kept the look. They then feuded in All-Star Wrestling over the mask. Joint ended up bringing him in I suppose to fill the void left by Nagasaki who was working for Dixon along with Bridges and St. Clair and Quinn. The footage had sound issues so I couldn't follow it very well, but Finlay was in Kendo's corner and the implication seemed to be that he was sending Kendo out there to hurt Jones. Marty Jones vs. Digger Nolan (9/17/85) Nolan was billed as an Australian wrestler from Freemantle. This was a total squash. You know a guy's a jobber when he gets KO'ed by Jones' dropkick. Jones had a great dropkick, but that's rough. Marty Jones vs. Skull Murphy (1/3/85) This was another World Mid-Heavyweight title fight between Jones and Murphy. Murphy wasn't quite as good in '85 as he had been in '83-84, but there was still a lot of quality in this. The only negative I'll say about Skull is that his selling could have been better. He bumped for the big spots, but if his reactions for the little stuff had been better I'd have no qualms calling him a strong worker during this phase of his career. As it was, he was pretty good against the right opponents. Marty Jones vs. Bearcat Bernie Wright (2/12/85) Wright has this weird look in '85 where he shaved the sides of his head. Kind of a proto-Berlyn look, but it wasn't shaved the whole way round. It didn't help his standings very much as they continued to job him out. It's weird the way they treated Wright considering the stable he came out of. Only the finish of this survives, but judging by other Wright matches at the time I can't imagine it being great. Dave Finlay & Skull Murphy vs. Marty Jones & Clive Myers (6/13/83) All right, a 20 minute workrate tag! That's something you don't get... well, ever... I've been waiting a long time to see a WoS tag match like this where four guys go all out and work a proper tag match. This is what the tag bouts should have been, but aside from that wonderful Johnny Saint bout and the Caribbean Sunshine Boys spectacle weren't. Any time Jones and Finlay square off it's just dynamite. Jones may actually be Finlay's career best opponent. At worst I would rank them alongside any other great pairing of the decade they're that good. This didn't have traditional Southern style structure as the FIP segments were short, but it was continuous hard hitting action and a great spotfest. Finlay's bumping was off the charts. I like him so much better before he shacked up with Paula. Excellent bout that ended with the overused need for a replay, but who's complaining when you get to see this match-up again? Dave Finlay & Skull Murphy vs. Marty Jones & Clive Myers (8/23/83) This was the replay to decide whatever all important knockout tag contest they were fighting over. This might have been even better than the last bout. Again there wasn't the kind of structure you'd find in a Rock 'n' Roll Express match, but the exchanges were flat out brilliant. Finlay's bumping was even crazier than the first time round and Murphy brought the killer spots like his back elbow guillotine drop off the top turnbuckle. Jones cleaning house was a sight to behold as well. He has got the single best face slap of any wrestler I've seen. The finish was a bit confusing as the tape cut off before we found out how the ref was going to call it, but this was another outstanding tag bout and another overwhelming pleasant surprise.

MORE TRADITIONAL FACE/HEEL DYNAMIC Cena vs Batista - Wrestlemania 26 I was a bit unsure how this fit a more traditional face/heel dynamic as it seemed to be a workrate match, but it was a solid bout and I couldn'rt find much fault with the work. Without seeing the build it's difficult to judge how good the payoff is, but as a stand alone bout it didn't exactly live up to my expectations of a big time fight. The two best Cena matches I've seen are the Umaga fight and the Money in the Bank match. I'd rate those amongst the best WWE matches of all-time. But I haven't seen a lot of evidence so far that Cena is one of the best big match workers ever. The other thing I realised watching this is that I'm just not a fan. His acting is shoddy and when he poses I don't get amped in the way I'm sure his fans do. He strikes me as a good main event worker, but I'm iffy on his greatness thus far. Nevertheless, this was solid. *** 1/2

Off the top of my head... Rey vs Chavo, Smackdown 25th July 2002 (debut) Rey vs Kurt Angle, Summerslam 2002 Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 12th Sept 2002 Rey vs Chris Benoit, Smackdown 3rd Oct 2002 Rey & Edge vs Angle & Benoit, No Mercy 2002 Rey & Edge vs Angle & Benoit (2/3 Falls), Smackdown 7th Nov 2002 Rey vs Eddie Guerrero, Smackdown 14th Nov 2002 Rey & Edge vs Angle & Benoit vs Los Guerreros, Survivor Series 2002 I finished watching all of Rey's 2002 stuff and enjoyed every single match. Some of it I had seen before and some of it I hadn't. The weakest match was either the Benoit match or the Survivor Series three-way, but they were still solid matches. I love this era of WWE programming. I stopped watching the WWE regularly in 2001 because I wasn't happy with the in-ring product and wasn't following it online in 2002. I would have loved to have watched this era on a week-to-week basis. I love Kurt Angle in these matches, thought Edge was great, and adore the No Mercy tag. Perhaps my all-time favourite spotfest. As for Rey, his selling is good, he works well from underneath, great spots, really awesome set-ups for the 619. Watching this stuff has definitely cemented his place on my list. It's just a matter of how high.

VIDEO GAME-Y BOMB THROWING Cena vs The Rock - Wrestlemania 29 I'd already seen the Cena/Bryan and Cena/Punk matches so I went with this instead. It wasn't a bad match, but it was really flat up until the finishing stretch. It didn't help that the crowd were so subdued or that the commentators kept prattling on about how high the stakes were and how important the match was to both men's legacies while they were in the middle of some boring ass hold. Cena was generally a better worker here than he was in 2007, but the first third was unashamed filler and they started trading finishers earlier than I expected. I liked Rock's counters to the STFU, but everything else was tiresome. The problem was that I didn't really care about Rock beating Cena the year before and the mistake Cena had made in toying with him, so the psychology behind the finishing stretch didn't really interest me. It was noticeable that the crowd were sitting around waiting for it to happen though and that both guys repeatedly hitting their finishers was the only thing that got them up and standing. To me this didn't really match the big match billing, so I'd probably give it ***

It's from New Japan.

Marty Jones vs. Skull Murphy (3/21/83) This was really good. It was Jones' first title defence of the World Mid-Heavyweight title after his win over Bobby Gaetano in November. A title defence against Skull Murphy was never going to be a technical masterpiece so they didn't even bother and worked a straight up heel vs. face match instead. They weren't overt about it, but since Murphy was Finlay's tag partner and Finlay became Jones' perpetual rival after Rocco left, it pretty much tied into the ongoing storyline. Jones always played the gobsmacked, earnest sportsman who would never accept a decision he felt he didn't deserve, but he was equally short tempered and while he would do all that cocky cat and mouse stuff with lesser opponents, he'd fire up if he didn't like the way he was being treated. When Murphy wasn't out and out cheating here, he would be be niggling Jones. His favourite trick was to rub his bald forehead against Jones' and throw the occasional headbutt or shove his palm right in Jones' face while stretching him in a submission. Jones eventually lost his cool, the crowd gave Ward an earful over everything Murphy did real or imagined, and the whole thing simmered nicely until Jones was busted open and the stakes suddenly rose tenfold. I'm not sure how Jones got away with blading on TV, but this almost certainly how their matches most have played out in the halls. They even did a spot that looked like he was straight from the houseshows where Jones goaded Murphy into punching him in the jaw and Murphy punched the ringpost instead. The blood soaked Jones was actually up a fall during his big peril segment, but it looked for all money like Murphy would make him submit. The finish was a bit of a let down given the heights the match had reached, but this was still a heck of a spectacle and one that has vaulted my already high opinion of Jones as a worker. Marty Jones vs. Studs Lannigan (8/21/84) What a great little bout this was. It only went about three rounds and was another Jones vs. lesser guy match, but for whatever reason Marty gave Lannigan a lot more respect than some of his other opponents. Instead of toying with him, Jones brought his mat game to the bout, which is an aspect of his game he often shelves, and they worked a bunch of cool holds. Lannigan was also given a fall to the great surprise of many. The crowd booed him so he gave them the finger twice. On UK television no less. Studs enjoyed that. That woke Jones up and he annihilated Lannigan like the British Bulldogs beating up on some jobbers. Studs ate the missile dropkick beautifully. I've seen him once before, but I don't remember him being quite this good. This was a bad ass squash. Studs ruled.

The Paula thing goes way back to early in Orndorff's career. There was an angle in the WWF where he destroyed a jobber who wore a Paula t-shirt.

Why was he on tv so little then?

Was that Kung Fu bout from Joint Promotions or All-Star? I thought Breaks only worked for All-Star and Reslo after '84 but from your description it sounds like a Joint bout. There's a Breaks match from '87 against a guy called Jack Davey in Reslo.

Btw, Magnum I wanted to say how nice it is to see another guy watching and critiquing WoS. It's been fantastic so far.

Saint and Faulkner had an excellent bout in the early 80s that made it on to my list of recommended matches. That '78 bout I remember being a disappointment by comparison. Saint often worked an exhibition type style and Faulkner was a guy who had his own bag of tricks. It's not a surprise that they'd just riff off each other. Faulkner was on TV a bunch, though. Third only to Breaks and McManus if I'm not mistaken. He's not one of my absolute favourites, but I've seen him in just about every match situation under the sun. In that respect these exhibition type showcase are a sign of versatility.

I'd have to check, but I don't think he was on TV that regularly. He seems to be a guy who a lot of people have memories of seeing live.

I've never bothered to watch Tanahashi vs. a bad opponent since I really just cherry pick his stuff, but I wasn't judging it on any sort of Tanahashi scale. I was judging it as a pro-wrestling match and it wasn't very good. I just checked and Dave gave it * 3/4