ohtani's jacket

Hmm, just watched a pretty soft Martel/Garea vs. Moondogs match. To be honest, Martel didn't look that flash. Garea I wanted to like such he's a fellow kiwi, but he wrestled like a pansy. It was a shortish title change with pretty awful use of the Southern style tag formula. It seems to me that Martel really grew into a strong wrestler somewhere between here and '84.

Sure, I don't think it's malicious. I just find it a little hard to swallow.

That's if you really feel there are 50 wrestlers better and don't just hate a guy and are trying to prove a point.

I'll go through the boldfaced selections at first and try to do one per day. Cena vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 6th November 2003 This was all right. A good, basic sort of match, though nothing really memorable past the week it aired. Cena's promo to start with sucked, but I thought he displayed good intensity after the bell and stood out fairly well for a midcard act. He was a bit too anxious about getting into position and watching him call spots was off putting, but I liked his aggressiveness. It was too short to be much of a bout and not really structured that well other than to give Cena a cheap win, however a decent start to this project. I'd go about **

Tanahashi's strikes have never looked better than in that match. His role seemed to be to bury the hatchet in a tough fought match. It got over pretty well.

The idea that Tanahashi wasn't in the top 50 workers in the world last year is a little hard to swallow. I mean I can understand him not being on someone's list of personal favourite wrestlers, but realistically speaking he would be in the top 50 workers in the world. It would be like leaving Manami Toyota or Shawn Michaels off a 1996 list.

Wayne Bridges vs. Butts Giraud (5/28/80) At first this struck me as pretty odd as Bridges was wrestling this portly, balding Canadian wrestler dressed in gridiron gear. Then I read up on Butts and he turned out to be a pretty interesting dude. It was Giraud and not Quinn who first came over from Canada and started getting on house mics and doing the whole anti-British spiel. A former All-American, he'd wear the helmet and football gear to further antagonise the crowds. You learn something new every day. Quinn was on the same tours and borrowed the act. The angle here was that he'd sent Butts a telegram telling him to finish Bridges off. The match itself wasn't very memorable, but another piece of the puzzle fell together. Tony St Clair vs. Rex Strong (4/10/80) I'm sure I've seen Strong before but I don't remember him looking the way he did. He was kind of like a British Mike Shaw. The crowd loved St. Clair and gave him tremendous support, but he flailed away against Strong with some pretty tame looking strikes. The crowd enjoyed it mind you. Pat Patton vs. Steve Peacock (8/6/80) Peacock got great heat here. The type of Sid Cooper/Jim Breaks heat that performers of his ilk must have been always hoping for. Patton continued to be a fine Kung Fu knock-off. The finish was tremendous as it looked for all money that Peacock had won, but Patton got one of the neater pinning reversals I've seen in a British ring. Definitely the first Peacock match where I've seen the things in him that Regal talks about. Tiger Dalibar Singh vs. King Kong Kirk (8/6/80) Singh had tremendous sideburns here and Kirk's gut looked tremendous with his tights raised up around his waist. The pair clobbered each other for a round or so before Singh got a pinfall and Kirk reacted after the bell by punching him in the back then dropping the elbow on him. That was an automatic DQ and another lost purse for Kirk no doubt. I love the punch to the back spot. It's such a heinous cheap shot as it looks like it could do real damage. Wayne Bridges vs. John Cox (1/3/80) Bit of a sleepy New Year's match. Cox was making his return to television after being off the air for some time and was never going to be much of a match for the world champ. Walton was pushing the 90 day rematch clause with Spiros Arion. They had a match in Digbeth on 1/24 that was possibly a world title match, but it wasn't a television taping. This match had some decent moments, but for a guy who was supposed to be the cream of the crop of British heavyweights Bridges sure had plenty of lacklustre matches. Romany Riley vs. Lenny Hurst (2/13/80) This was an entertaining bout between two solid pros. They deserve a ton of credit for making it memorable as they could have easily gone out there and had a regular sort of a match, but they sensed something in the crowd I supposed and worked a chaotic bout instead. Riley was working as a heel at this stage and I still find it hard to recognise him in the early 80s since he looked almost like a counter culture Bill Walton type in the 70s. He kept attacking Hurst before he'd had an opportunity to get up (a big no no under Lord Mountevans rules.) Well, you don't fuck with Lenny Hurst. He may appear quiet and unassuming, but he stomped the shit out of Riley between rounds and started throwing punches for good measure. Riley responded in kind and referee Joe D'Orazio lost all control of the bout. It was a pretty shocking refereeing performance from him actually from a kayfabe perspective. They pounded away on each other with both men taking a lot of damage, It went on longer than it needed to, but they certainly left an impression.

The Destroyer was a legit household name in Japan as he picked up the language a bit and would appear in television commercials and on comedy variety shows. Plus he worked during the Rikidozan era where television was new, there weren't many channels and wrestling was so in demand as a TV product that there were instances of the same match airing on two different channels at the same time. Bobo was a big star in Japan for reasons you can probably guess.

Ted was getting those wins in '76 because of Bobo. As for the others, look at the guys Baba was tagging with. I've never even heard of some of them.

I wouldn't go that far, though I do appreciate you trying to bring Ted into the discourse! The way I see it, he was a step down from Hansen and above the Steve Williams level.

Does this include tag matches and six-mans? Cagematch has 171 results for Murdoch vs. Inoki. Anyway, I don't think Murdoch ever beat Inoki in a singles match so I'm figuring those wins were in tag matches where Inoki probably didn't eat the pinfall too often. Dick had his spot. It was a good spot, but I don't see a case for him as one of the most important gaijin stars in history. He has longevity with the amount of tours he worked there, but everything he did impact wise was solid not spectacular.

Jimmy, if you can put together a select list of Cena matches in different working situations I will make the time to watch them. Cheers.

It seems kind of a given that Murdoch was bigger in New Japan than All Japan. I don't really get where the idea that he was big in All Japan came from. I also don't really see any reason why Baba would lose to Murdoch in the period that he worked there. Murdoch was on the level of trading wins with Jumbo before Inoki pinched him. Would he have been Hansen if neither of them had jumped? That's the question.

Poor Jerome. I won't potty mouth Takada anymore. I saw him on TV the other day and he hasn't aged so well.

Another under-the-radar favourite of mine, Tarzan Johnny Wilson. He won't look like much at first, but if you've seen the crazy amount that I have you will appreciate his sterling efforts every time out. And because you must see him once, one of the hairiest men to ever wrestle, ladies and gentlemen Little Prince:

Now for a couple of guys who may test the limits of how important personal charisma is for you, but were part of a quartet of hard hitting wrestlers from the 1980s along with Roach and Rudge. The first is Indian star Tiger Dalibar Singh (also known as Gil Singh): And my boy, Ray Steele. If you can get into him then you and I will be wrestling pen friends that's for sure.

You need to watch the Jones vs. Rocco bouts from the 70s at the least. I think they will change your opinion on Rocco slightly. Just don't watch that Bobby Bold Eagle match I wrote about a few moments ago. Some pretty dodgy skill levels there from Rocco.

Getting closer to knocking off 1980 forever and all time. Bobby Barnes vs. Bob Anthony (5/22/80) Barnes had cut his hair short here but was still a blonde. I guess that means his image change was a slow metamorphosis and not a sudden change. This was a pretty good match actually, especially in the middle rounds where Anthony was staking a claim for a successful return to television. It petered out a bit when Barnes took over in the later rounds and the finish was naff, but Anthony again proved himself capable. Alan Dennison vs. Bob Anthony (2/13/80) This seems to have been Anthony's official return to television. Dennison was less dickish than usual but still didn't give Anthony much. Walton spent the whole time waxing poetically about Anthony's father Bob Archer O'Brien, an older Southern area welterweight star. Ray Steele vs. Peter Stewart (9/3/80) For some reason, Peter Stewart hadn't appeared on television since 1976. Back then he'd been a tall, skinny heavyweight struggling like most to make it into the top flight. Four years later, he had filled out, grown a Charles Bronson like moustache and was wearing a badass black protective glove on his right hand. He even had a badass nickname, The Iron Duke. This was a cool match, though very much for the connoisseur of the more minimalist heavyweight style. Stewart showed he was a good addition to the club who worked that style well and it's a shame he got lost in the shuffle like so many others. Pat Roach vs. Pete Stewart (11/5/80) Here's a bit of useless trivia for you in case anyone ever asks you what Jeff Kaye's first televised match as a referee was. Man Roach was huge. Stewart was a big guy, but Roach was simply bigger. Only Quinn comes close to giving the same impression. This was also cool in the same vein that the Steele bout was. Things got pretty testy between the two, but the promoters were continuing to turn Roach face so nothing much came of it. There was an awkward spot where Kaye counted a pinfall where Stewart had gotten his shoulder up. Roach refused the fall, which made sense in terms of putting over his new found sportsmanship, but it made Kaye look pretty weak in his first appearance as ref. Chris Adams vs. King Ben (11/8/80) For the heats of a knockout trophy tournament this was an excellent bout. It went to a draw so it didn't quite hold its shape the entire way, but for two guys I'm hardly fond of they impressed me with their working chemistry. Ben seems like a better wrestler in the early 80s then I would have given him credit for. He had a lot of natural charisma and some neat comedy spots. His selling of the enzuigiri (which Walton had some weird name for) would mortify some people, but forgivable considering it was England in the 1980s and not Japan. Bobby Bold Eagle vs. Rollerball Rocco (9/3/80) This was Bobby Bold Eagle's television debut for Joint Promotions. He mostly stuck to Native American shtick while Rocco cheated his arse off. Walton of course went on about Billy Two Rivers, who had been a huge success in Joint rings in the 60s. The bout was a Rocco special, but it was sullied somewhat by the blatant spot calling and an incredibly unsubtle reach for a blade by Rocco. It was cool that he bleed from BBE's tomahawk chops and pretty outrageous considering blood wasn't allowed on television, but for a guy who was supposed to be the pro's pro, this was one of the more business exposing bouts I've seen from a British grappler. Wayne Bridges vs. John Quinn (4/21/80) The spectacle for this was amazing. It was taped at Wembley, which was one of the more raucous crowds around, and aired on Cup Final Day. Proof positive that Joint could build to a big match and deliver, the MC starts by telling the crowd how impatient they are. Then Manfred Mann hits and Quinn makes the best World Heavyweight title match entrance a rudo could possibly make in a town hall in 1980s London. Bridges came out to Entry of the Gladiators with flags and fanfare, and they even did this BS thing where they passed Yasa Fuji off as the heavyweight champion of Japan waiting to be the first man to challenge the winner. The bout was pure theatre with the crowd ready to come unglued at a moment's notice. They were a smart crowd too as they noticed every indiscretion Quinn made even the slightest hair pull. Ward milked the public warnings beautifully and the building shook whenever Bridges would fight back. The ring was surrounded by twice as many attendants as usual due to how worked up the crowd were. When Bridges took the first fall, this guy leapt into shot looking like he was going to attack Bridges when in fact he was so fired up over Bridges taking a fall that he just lost his shit completely. The finish was ballsy given the crowd reaction as Bridges was busted open and unable to continue the fight handing the title to Quinn, who had naturally cheated the entire match with his all-in American rule breaking. Since it aired live on Cup Final Day, the editor chased Bridges around with a grey spot to cover up his cut and there were cutaways to ladies in the crowd as Fuji jumped into the ring to celebrate with The Mighty Quinn. This was a great run from Quinn, who really upset the locals with his comments about England. Of course Daddy showed up to set up a tag match and steal the heat, but wow, as a spectacle that left me breathless. King Ben vs. Honey Boy Zimba (9/3/80) Only the scoring falls were really shown. Didn't realise Zimba had a Herculean gut by 1980. Mike Marino vs. King Kong Kirk (9/3/80) Jesus, Marino was older than Moses in '80. Mal Kirk is the type of wrestler who's easy to write off as he was almost the George 'the Animal' Steele of British wrestling, but he was committed to his role, got plenty of heat and never really stank it up in the ring. This wasn't much of anything since Marino was older than dirt, but Kirk's facials were a lot of fun. You'd swear Kirk Douglas was his name sake watching the way he scowls. He's really like a cartoon character come to life.

11/22/91 is the correct date.

I already expect there will be people who won't vote for Satanico, and I can think of at least three big lucha fans who don't rate him as highly as I do, so it's not something that would upset me. My picks never do well in this sort of thing. If I were to make my list tomorrow and include Cena, where would I put him? How could I rank him against Satanico who I've seen wrestle in just about every match situation? I'm trying to look at the pros and cons of every worker I vote for and weight those things accordingly, but I don't think I can do that fairly with Cena and a token vote is a waste of space. Having said that, if he's such a lock then maybe I should watch more of him. I don't really see how I can catch up in time though unless I start exclusively watching John Cena matches. I only watch a dozen or so wrestling matches a week so it's a bit of a quandry. I haven't even got properly started on Rey yet.

It's not a troll. I haven't watched WWE TV weekly since 2001. It's possible that I've seen less than a dozen John Cena matches.

I might abstain on voting for Cena because I only ever watch his most highly pimped stuff.

Conneally (or however it's spelled) really stretches the limits of believability as he's basically a comedian doing a wrestling act. Personally, I don't find him funny, but as the old adage goes: "everybody was somebody's favourite."

Who's saying he's wrong? I suspect he's wrong that's all. If Dick Murdoch was a household name in Japan then about 20-30 other guys must have been too and that's a lot of household names. My impression of Murdoch is that he was a second tier star. He wasn't one of the truly big stars of the 70s and jumped to New Japan at a time when foreigners were being de-emphasised in favour of native feuds. He was respected by his peers, a fan favourite, and a guy promoters welcomed back time and time again, but during wrestling's hottest run he was predominantly a tag wrestler. One thing that I would consider is how important were his main events against Inoki or Baba. Once you got outside Tokyo and some of the bigger areas, the draws were really Inoki and Baba because it was a chance to see those guys live in person in your hometown/prefecture. So it really becomes a question of how important it was that Murdoch was an opponent. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that the concept of drawing and main event billing in American cities is slightly different from how AJPW and NJPW drew outside of the Kanto region. So, I'd look at how they drew the last time they were in town and whether Murdoch was ever used to pop a bigger gate, and I'd look at how he was used in key markets like Tokyo and Osaka. Don't forget that the tour rosters weren't that big. Dick was a guy they trusted and who toured more than 50 times. He was a top foreign star, but there weren't that many foreign stars at any one time. You're going to rotate him in and out of your main events while on tour. So I think it's important to look for something a bit more special than the number of times Dick was in the main event.

Murdoch's New Japan run fom '81-89 is what he is most remembered for, particularly the '81-83 period where New Japan was really hot. I don't think anybody remembers him as a 70s star or even an All Japan guy. The whole household name thing is slight hyperbole. You have to take into consideration the scale of what that entails. Baba and Inoki were household names. Was Murodch on that level? As for shoot style, Dave mentioned he picked up on the submissions, but the submissions Murdoch worked were pre-shoot style NJ holds.