ohtani's jacket

The great under appreciated feud continues -- http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/blog/8/entry-436-the-fiera-vs-dandy-feud-2/

Atlantis/El Dandy/Pierroth Jr. vs. Sangre Chicana/La Fiera/Gran Markus Jr., CMLL 11/20/92 Pierroth's a cowboy! There was another weird CMLL vignette to begin this where Pierroth, dressed in jeans, a leather jacket and cowboy hat, saddled up his seed and rode through some mountain country. He looked a bit like the Marlboro Man, but I think his horse riding skills were meant to seem more impressive than they did. The vignette ended with Pierroth laying his horse down on its side and standing on top of it to pose. Not sure the horse enjoyed that. But enough about that. I'm sure the only "horse" Fiera cared about was either horse-powered or horse tranquilizer. This was the go home show before the hair match and Fiera had carnage on his mind. The beginnings to these matches are straight out of Monterrey. There was another one uploaded where Fiera choked the shit out of Dandy with his chain, but after a sleazy start the match got progressively worse and I decided not to review it. This time Fiera held nothing back and Dandy bled like a martyr. Fiera channeled his inner Pirata Morgan by biting Dandy's forehead and feeding on the cut. Unfortunately, the backdrop to this was a bit too workmanlike with Chicana and Gran Markus Jr. not really being as frenzied as I would have liked, but the image of Fiera holding Dandy by that plentiful hair and posing while Dandy bled and bled is the kind of lucha sleaze you don't see much of anymore. The second caida began with Pierroth being stalked on the outside by both Chicana and Fiera, and I kind of wondered how the horse vignette was meant to tie into all this. The camera cut without warning to Gran Markus Jr working Atlantis over, and he did this really cool spot where he picked Atlantis up by the tights and the back of his mask and threw him into the ground just like throwing out the garbage. That's the way all technicos should be dealt with. Markus was really warming to his task with a vicious looking uppercut to the jaw, a posting for Atlantis, and a knee to the back for good measure. Meanwhile, Dandy had his hands cupped together and was collecting the blood. That's gross, but you've got to love Chicana pointing and laughing at Dandy as he stumbled past all the while with a big boot across Pierroth's throat. The technicos were really taking a beating at this point. Atlantis was desperately trying to pull Dandy away, but Fiera chopped him out of the way and sent Dandy hurling into some chairs. And Chicana laid the boot into Pierroth. Now there's a match-up I would've liked to have seen, Pierroth vs. Chicana. Ah lucha, where the best match-ups never happen. The table was set for a really good technico comeback here with Dandy stumbling about from blood loss and Pierroth and Atlantis trying to shoo the doctor away. Even with the beloved grainy footage you could see Dandy was a crimson smudge. Fiera pulled Dandy into the ring by the hair while he was still trying to walk it off, and while the rudos held Dandy, he spat in Fiera's eye. Chicana punched him in the side and Markus pulled his head back by the hair while Fiera wiped the blood and spit from his face. Dandy buckled down onto both knees and the Stations of the Cross type allusions were pretty obvious here. Or maybe I've been listening to too much metal lately. Atlantis and Pierroth tried to orchestrate the comeback with Atlantis hitting the most gorgeous looking dropkick, but Fiera swiped away a second attempt and nailed Atlantis with his spinning high kick and dropped to the outside where he headbutted Dandy. That summed the match up really as Fiera was just relentless in trying to beat the shit out of his adversary. Finally the ring cleared of the other four, and Dandy got his one-on-one showdown with Fiera. He'd lost too much blood though, and Fiera easily cut off his attacks. He then gave Dandy a kick in the balls, feigned that Dandy had done the same to him and got the technico side disqualified. As far as low blow finishes go, Fiera not giving a fuck was pretty cool. He'd proven his point by beating the shit out of Dandy and cheating to win just rubbed more salt into the wound. The stage was set for the hair match and Dandy had plenty of it to lose. Stayed tuned for next time when we bring you the exciting conclusion to Dandy v Fiera...

People who dislike Joshi should avoid this match-up like the plague as these were two of the biggest proponents of the action at all costs mentality. People who do like Joshi ought to appreciate the effort, commitment and intensity here. It's not a perfect match -- there's no way that a match involving these two isn't going to be flawed in some way -- but in sheer terms of the competition between two wrestlers and the will power and desire it takes to win, this was a far more compelling match to me than the majority of Toyota's matches during this time period. It's repetitive and scraggly at times, and there's every chance I could watch it tomorrow and not like it as much, but I would put it on my personal hit list for 1990s Toyota.

I've seen the 2005 match once before, but it was so long ago that I can't remember much about it. I also remember loving the '06 match against Finlay and the Orton match.

One time I asked one of Santana's acquaintance's if I could talk to Santana at some point. I wasn't really expecting any actual reply or if I did get one, wasn't expecting anything soon. Literally one day after I asked, I get a call from a New Jersey area-code, and it's Santana himself. I wish everyday people I know where that good at returning phone calls. You can't leave the story there! What does one talk about when Tito Santana calls them up?

Rey's 2004 bouts were considerably better than his 2003 work. The Eddie Guerrero bout was the best match he'd had since the end of the Smackdown Six era and his best singles showing in the WWE to date. That was partially because Eddie did such a great job working over his shoulder injury, but Mysterio's selling was also brilliant. To me that was a legit four star match. The Chavo bout was good, but I got a bit tired of Mysterio hitting a move and selling the knee. I know people applaud that type of sustained selling, but the repetition and the fact that he kept hitting the same leg based offence bugged me and wasn't as clever as it seemed. I also hated the finish, which should have at least tied into the narrative. The Jamie Noble bout was really good. I thought it was Rey's second best match of the year and definitely a feather in the cap of those who think Rey's the best television worker ever given he had a stellar match tucked away on Velocity. The Angle matches weren't as good as the original ones, though the more stripped back style of the first one was interesting. And while he seemed to have ironed out some of the kinks with Tajiri, they still failed to knock one out of the park. Nevertheless, if those are your weaker matches of the yesr, you had a good year.

I watched the 2/15/95 Toyota/Hotta vs. Kyoko/Takako tag where whoever gets the pin earns the right to challenge Aja at the Queendom show. Quite an interesting dynamic as Toyota and Hotta end up coming to blows whereas Takako works tirelessly to win the title shot for her partner. The finish is ridiculous though. Hotta takes a bump to the floor and Toyota is supposed to pin Kyoko with a move off the top rope, but she botches it completely and they do a reset in the opposite corner by which time Hotta has recovered and is standing on the apron wondering what the fuck is going on. She doesn't know quite what to do, so she just watches Toyota pin Kyoko and grab the title shot.

I'm not into Rey's WWE work because of crap like this. So no, I wouldn't feel the same way I don't think, because Rey just doesn't need any cutesy trademark spot. He's a great worker. He's spent years being a great worker without doing stuff like this. The Rock on the other hand got over because of his catchphrases and cutesy spots like the People's Elbow. That's part of his character. The 619 is just another WWE corporate/trademarked stamp on a worker who doesn't need it to either work or get over. That's why it annoys me so much. So it's not the spot but WWE's repackaging of workers that bothers you? Because I was going to ask how you would feel if someone didn't want to watch Flair's output because of his turnbuckle spot or Andre because of the spot where he gets caught in the ropes.

This was underwhelming, and I say that as a fan of both women. If it had been on one of those 1993 inter-promotional shows it might have been okay, but as a title match it was both unremarkable and unworthy. The finishing stretch couldn't have been any more predictable if they'd tried,and Toyota winning wasn't realistic given the limited damage Kansai had taken. Nowhere near special enough for what should have been a major match, and poorly booked all round.

Mick McManus vs. Alan Dennison (10/7/81) These two had met on television numerous times over the years, though Walton did nothing to play up their history. Quite a clash of the egos with no quarter given in that respect. In 1981 this was never going to be a great match, but Walton could have done more to put it over as two perennial television powerhouses squaring off. The fact that he didn't is a sign that *someone* thought this sort of match-up should be put out to pasture. Two things stick out about McManus in the early 80s, one being how weak his tricks look compared to the mid-70s (which wasn't even his pomp) and the other being how bad his hair looked. The whole McManus image wasn't really there anymore. Johnny Saint vs. Jan Curtis (2/17/82) This was horrendous. Who booked this for the Albert Hall? It lasted one round, saw Curtis take a fall to the outside twice, and ended with Curtis unable to continue. He looked pensive throughout and nothing like the worker I saw take on Cooper. This was an absolute dud and by default the worst Johnny Saint match on tape. Sid Cooper & Bobby Barnes vs. Pat Patton & Steve Logan (5/11/82) Barnes and Cooper make for a great tag team. This was another decent tag match. It seems that British tag wrestling improved immensely in the early 80s. This even had a FIP feel to it with the heels working over both Patton and Logan. Of course they don't go all the way with it like a Southern tag would, but it was nice to have some structure to a WoS tag and Barnes vs. Patton is one of the more under-the-radar match-ups. After praising the structure, the finish was unnatural to me as a long time wrestling fan as Logan stood on the apron doing nothing while Barnes scored the winning fall. It's just weird not seeing a save in that situation. I think it was this match where all the kids ran to ringside at the end and gave the heels the fingers. You could hear them shouting "ya fuckin' wankers!" as Walton signed off. A night out for the entire family. John Naylor vs. King Ben (11/3/82) Only a few minutes of this aired, which I'm guess was the way it was edited for television as it seems to happen an awful lot with Naylor footage. What was shown was excellent. Along with the Kilby bout, this was another example of Ben looking good, which not surprisingly coincides with him taking his wrestling seriously instead of all the tomfoolery. It may have also been another example of a wrestler whom Ben didn't get along with as it a bit frosty at times, but that frostiness added another layer of tension to the bout and gave it an edge that the lighter weight matches seldom have. Sid Cooper vs. Pat Patton (8/11/82) Disappointing. The TV lights went off at the start and they wrestled the match with partial lighting until the technicians were able to get the lights back on. That seemed to put them off (naturally), but when the lights came back on and everyone in the hall could see again, they quickly went to the injury finish instead of giving folks something to cheer about. I was hoping for much more from this. Ray Steele vs. Kwik Kick Lee (8/11/82) This was okay. Maeda was obviously a whole lot better at working Japanese style holds than he was Lord Mountevans rules, but he gave it a go. He was quite a bit heavier than Steele and sweated heavily under the television lights so it wasn't the smoothest match you'll see between heavyweights, but the stand-up parts were good. Walton was frustrated that there wasn't enough action, but this was all right despite its awkwardness. Jim Breaks vs. Tom Thumb (8/11/82) You can probably guess why Neil Evans was called "Tom Thumb." He was billed at 5′ 0″ and 9 st, but was a tough little blighter. This was his television debut and he was lucky enough to be up against Jim Breaks, who almost always put over new talent. This wasn't exactly a Breaks classic, but his facial expressions were fantastic and it was a fun bout while it lasted. Breaks was one of the smallest guys around, but Thumb looked tiny even in comparison to Jimmy. He was constantly on the move though, trying to gain an advantage with his speed and quickness. Very fun gimmick. He couldn't escape the Jim Breaks Special though. No siree. Vic Faulkner vs. Mick McMichael (10/11/82) This was pure comedy with Faulkner and McMichael pulling out a gag on each and every hold. For the life of me, I can't remember Mick McMichael ever doing comedy to quite this extent. Maybe he should have worked this way all the time as it was a step up from his usual nondescript bouts. Another thing they did here was mic the ring so you could clearly hear every word the wrestlers and the ref were saying. That made a big difference compared to say those Conneely matches. After a boatload of comedy the bout ended on a serious note as McMichael gravely injured his larynx. Faulkner didn't want to take the decision and all I could think was "no-one gives a shit whether you take the decision Faulkner." Not my favourite workers these two.

If you were into Rey's WWE stuff more perhaps you'd feel the same way about the 619 that you do the People's Elbow. I actually think there are other things Rey does that are less plausible like when he head scissors a guy into the steel corner post, but that would probably work a treat if it were Psicosis in AAA where the conventions are different.

To me it's nowhere near as bad as the Five Knuckle Shuffle, the People's Elbiw, the Worm or the Stinkface as he doesn't have to stop to signal if. As a move, it's better than the Bronco buster.

Really? Ross wouldn't play off Ventura at all. I much prefered Tony and Jesse.

The 619 takes up about 5 seconds of a Rey match. It's usually the set-up for the West Coast Pop. I don't see how it's the focal point of his matches.

I actually find the set-up for the 619 is pretty good most of the time. It only looks bad when the opponent doesn't fall into the ropes well. Of course, you've got to ignore the fact it happens in every match, but that's not hard to do.

It's a shame we don't have more footage of Albert "Rocky" Wall or Gwyn Davies, who were the two dominant heel British Heavyweight Champions of the era. We don't even have that much heel Pat Roach. I guess I would take Jumbo over the likes of Wayne Bridges and Tony St. Clair, and probably Ray Steele though it pains me to say it. Tibor and Veidor I personally like more. In the lighter weights, you'd have to consider Sid Cooper, Bobby Barnes, Steve Wright, Bert Royal, Vic Faulkner, Mike Marino, Bobby Ryan, Jeff Kaye, Pete Roberts, Brian Maxine, and guys like Peter Szacaks, Adrian Street, Abe Ginsberg and Peter Preston if we had more footage. It's crazy how many good workers there were. Add to that the huge amount of depth in Mexico and even a Joshi worker like Yumi Ikeshita and it's a lot less cut and dry that Jumbo is an automatic lock for the top 10. It's hard to imagine that El Faraon, Perro Aguayo, Fishman, Sangre Chicana, Ray Mendoza, etc. weren't great in the mid to late 70s.

I would have to watch more 70s Jumbo to get a fix on how good I think he is, but when comparing him to WoS workers the fairest comparison is first and foremost with heavyweights. The lightweights through to the middleweights leave him for dead in terms of skill, and he's nowhere near as technically skilled as the best British heavyweights as he works a more basic style of matwork. We don't have a lot of their title matches in tape though compared to the Jumbo title matches we have. I'm sure there ate things he is better at than the British heavyweights though. I will rewatch some of his stuff.

Parv is going to hate most of those matches. Getting him to watch Tamura vs. Kohsaka is like trying to convince him that A Love Supreme is one of the greatest lps ever recorded. Take my advice, Parv. Watch this match -- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb8085_volk-han-vs-yoshihisa-yamamoto-ring_sport If that does nothing for you, nothing will.

I found my 2006 run through of all the UWF shows, including each of the Suzuki matches -- http://web.archive.org/web/20070319060803/www.smarkschoice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=144244&sid=68cda17fb5ed6375519d93d96c244584

This fell apart for me in the third fall. The first two falls I thought were good and I couldn't understand why this had been so divisive, but the third fall as a spluttering mess. Those table spots were the worst. Absolute crap. I didn't feel there was anything terrible about the first two falls, but the opening fall was clearly front heavy with two many nearfalls they'd have been better off putting into the final caida. I also would have liked to have seen Manami submit to end the second fall, but nobody ever submits in Joshi. Aside from the shitty finish, I liked the contributions Hasegawa and Takako made. I'm happy to see that Takako is still a wrestler I can get into after all these years.

That would be good. John mentioned some 60-70 matches. Like most people, I've probably only seen a quarter of that. There's other kinds of stuff out there too. There's the Portland stuff, around 400 British matches. There's even conclusions you can probably make about lucha workers. I suppose with all those things considered he would probably be in many people's top 10, but I can't escape the feeling when I watch his matches that he's a second or third year guy and so on. I have a tough time rating him against seasoned pros.

Bert Royal vs. Steve Taylor (10/22/75) Steve Taylor is the older brother of Dave Taylor and the oldest son of legendary Heavy Middleweight Eric Taylor. This is the only footage we have of him from his prime. There are a few more matches from Reslo in the early 80s and a couple of tag matches from the late 80s, but that’s it. He was a capable grappler as you can imagine from his lineage, but this was a four round Bert Royal exhibition similar to the Tibor Szacaks and Mike Marino bouts I’m always talking about. It’s easy to forget how long Royal had been around. He was already in his mid-40s here and had been wrestling on television for twenty years. Perhaps that’s why Dale Martin was struggling so badly in the early 70s. As much as I love this 70s stuff, and as decent a bout as this was, there were guys on top who appeared in the first television broadcast in 1955. That’s an extraordinarily long time to push the same wrestlers. Forgetting all that, there was some neat grappling in this, Taylor looked good, and Royal was rocking his mid-70s moustache. John Naylor vs. Bill Ross (2/25/76) This was a neat opportunity to see one of the top Scottish lightweights of the day, Bill Ross. The Northern guys didn’t appear on television all that often since most of the tapings were from areas where Dale Martin promoted, and a lot of the Northerners had business interests which kept them from venturing too far from Scotland and the North of England, hence why people only ever read about George Kidd’s World Lightweight Title defences instead of getting to see them, so this was a neat chance to see a guy who along with Kidd and Jim McKenzie was considered one of the best of the Northern guys. Naylor was his usual mixed bag, but Ross was a lot of fun and it was cool seeing his specialties. It’s always good to put a match to a face, so all in all we’re lucky to have this on tape. Kendo Nagasaki vs. Roy St Clair (5/25/76) If there’s one thing I’ve noticed about British historians it’s that they tend to have an over-inflated opinion of Kendo Nagasaki’s working ability. Maybe it’s nostalgia or looking at things through rose coloured glasses, or perhaps he was better in the 60s when he was working the halls and kept off television, but at any rate there’s nothing on tape to support the idea that he was an elite worker. Mind you, neither was McManus so I suppose it doesn’t really matter. This was a competitive squash with a lot of public warnings and crowd heat and even a bit of blood from Roy St. Clair’s lip. If there’s one thing I like about Nagasaki it’s his finisher. Along with Roach’s finisher it was one of the nastier moves of the era and looked like a knockout blow every time. Romany Riley vs. Rex Strong (4/6/76) Strong was brought into the business by the legendary Prince of Darkness, Dirty Dominic Pye, in the Blackpool area, and was more than proficient in the dark arts of rule-bending. He also spent time in Bill Riley’s gym, not that you’d be able to guess judging by his technical ability. If you want to see a big, bad, bald heavyweight who looks like he could be a henchman in every B-film ever made then Strong is the guy for you. He cheats the entire bout long and the grannies get pissed. Bread and butter stuff, but everyone gets their money’s worth. Mick McManus vs. Catweazle (5/5/82) This was McManus’ final ever bout. I’m not sure why Catzweale was chosen as his opponent, but both men but in a considerably earnest attempt at wrestling a good match. McManus fights the clock at the end to force a result, but can’t quite make it and the bell goes to draw time on his career. A ten bell salute follows and a backstage interview with some World of Sport guy where they drink beer together and toast McManus’ career. Unfortunately, the sound quality is terrible and it’s difficult to make out what McManus is saying, but he seems to take a sort of retrospective and philosophical look back on his career even the cheating. The beer is a nice touch.

These are all matches against NWA World Heavyweight Champions. What was he like against other opposition? I'll admit that part of my questioning stems from a dislike for "best in the world" hyperbole (even though I sometimes use it myself), but Jumbo being one of the best workers from the 70s is an old line from when there was far less footage circulating and something that needs reexamining.

All right. I still think it's cheating though!

What matches does Jumbo have in the 70s where he looks like a top 10 worker in the world? In the Brisco matches you reviewed he was inferior to Inoki and Baba.