ohtani's jacket

What did he say about Wagner?

At least is has Blue Panther and Satanico on the cover. That's awesome.

That Survivor Series poster is begging to be photo shopped.

Tanahashi is 7 years into being pushed as a World Champion. When he was first pushed as Champ, we were a day less than NOAH packing the Dome for the second straight year. Two years from Jun being able to hold up his end of the bargin as an opponent for Kobashi to pack the Dome on that 2004 card. So yeah, Tanahashi in 2013 is quite removed from days when the business was strong. A large chunk of the period, 5-6 years of it, was when Tanahashi and Nakamura were anchoring New Japan. I thought the consensus on Tanahashi was that he's going in because of what Dave has written and said about him the past two years. There doesn't appear to be much consideration of his career as whole, but rather the upswing in business the best few years. And wasn't that NOAH Dome Show papered? I think the industry leeched off MMA a fair bit, particularly the magazines. Now there's nothing to leech off. People talk about these internet PPVs, and maybe they're a valuable source of income for the promotion, but to me that makes NJPW an incredibly fringe product in Japan and nowhere near achieving mainstream appeal since TV is still king. MMA was the last combat sport to have any significant television exposure. That's gone and the casuals have left with it. There's not a lot for the industry to really tap. The base audience is so small that to sell out Sumo Hall you need those people to bring people with them, like my wife's ex-worker did the times he took her there. Why? Because it was interpromotional? It is for pro-wrestling in 2013. So why do you think it's ironic that Tanahashi can't draw what Akiyama did a decade ago when you know the business isn't as good as it was a decade ago? There's irony in there for people who think Tanahashi is a good draw I suppose, but no real irony beneath the surface. If NJPW are starting to report legit numbers like Dave says then they're doing better than I could have imagined them doing five or six years ago, even if it's a minor accomplishment by historical standards. It seems like the new owners have a more sensible business plan. Maybe people go overboard in praising the turnaround, but it's not worth cheapening.

It's being mentioned specifically because it's something Dave values as important. It's a (possibly misguided) attempt to work within the existing framework. All right, if that's the case then fair enough.

There is some humor in the fact that Jun in 2001/2002 and again in 2003 put up drawing numbers in NJPW that Tanahashi has never matched. I tend to think that Jun bombed as a successor/heir to Misawa when given repeated chances. But if we apply the "That's a tough standard for Tanahashi to be forced to match" rule when comparing Tanahashi's success to when New Japan was actually a successful company... well, Jun kind of does pretty okay. Dittos Sasaki, who I think is wildly overrated as a draw and have pointed it out in earlier threads this year. 2001-03 is only a few years removed from business being strong. Tanahashi is now a decade and a half removed from when business was strong. The bottom has not only fallen out of the wrestling business, but K-1 and MMA too. At least a decade ago, the business could leech off MMA. If Tanahashi is any kind of draw, it's the difference between 3-4k and 8k on a non-sell out Sumo Hall show. You have to seriously question whether drawing an extra 3k in 2012/13 is harder than selling out Sumo Hall on consecutive nights during a hot period. It doesn't make Tanahashi a HOF draw, because he's clearly not, but there were guys who ride the wave during hot periods who wouldn't draw much more today and who were never in a situation like Tanahashi where you're scraping to draw 3k more from a small market. Workers who folks would give some sort of cred to for drawing power in the 90s weren't able to stop the rot when they were still headlining. Is that on the talent or the promoters? Because if it's on the promoters then the promoters ought to get more credit for the hot periods and then the drawing power of some of these 90s stars is questionable. Why is Aja Kong considered a draw? The gates Aja has drawn for a long time now ought to be considered a negative if people are being consistent. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but there inconsistencies on both sides of this argument. People mention Rose's reputation as a worker among other wrestlers, since when did the opinion of other wrestlers suddenly matter? I bet it doesn't matter about Brody or Sayama. Dandy should go in for work? Where is a proper critical appraisal of Dandy's work? Is Rose a better big match worker than Tanahashi? I thought Rose's big matches were on the Tuesday shows. Is Regal a better big match worker than Tanahashi? When did he get to work big matches? The latter two points may not have been made, but I don't see the comparison point between Rose and Tanahashi other than people wanting to mention how great Rose is again. Anyway, the Tanahashi argument reminds me a bit of the Sting argument in that you have to make a lot of concessions for both men and ideally a HOF'er doesn't need concessions made for him, but I guess it's a moot point now that Tanahashi has been elected.

Tanahashi vs. Okada 2/12/12 * This was the first match in their series. The only version I could find had dubbed over English commentary. Kids, don't dub over matches with your own commentary. It's not cool. * I didn't like this much. It was the same ideas as the 6/6 match put together in a much more disjointed fashion. To their credit, they wrestled a superior version of the same match in June, but it's kind of lame that they re-worked so many of the same spots. I was especially disappointed that Tanahashi did the dragon screw in the ropes. I hope he doesn't do that spot in every match. * The opening exchanges were the first time I've thought his work was bad. It was like he took the energy from his shitty posing and infused it into his early spots. His headlock work was weak and he did this moonsault spot into a pose that was completely shallow. But the real problem with this match was that there wasn't the same sustained attacks as in the June match, nor the same amount of selling or drama, and the transitions between each control segment were weak compared to the rematch. * When the most exciting thing in a match is a guy losing a tooth, you've kind of lost me. Three stars would be generous for this one.

The mandatory retirement age ended in 1993.

I don't think he's a bad wrestler at all. In fact, I agree with what you've written here. This guy is very much a Shinjiro Ohtani level worker. That's not an insult. But that's also what causes a disconnect for me. How can you make an argument, with a straight face, that being a good 1990's style NJPW wrestler makes you among the best to have ever done it? I don't know. It was my first time to watch the guy, so I don't have much to say about him yet only that I was expecting a male Manami Toyota and instead got son of generic New Japan wrestler. There are modern day CMLL workers who I simply won't watch because they're so far removed from what I think is good lucha and I can see people having that reaction to Tanahashi if they were really big 90s Japanese wrestling fans, but I don't think this guy is as bad as those CMLL workers.

The Tanahashi argument is interesting to me, so I've decided to watch some of his matches. The only time I've really seen him is on promos that used to air on satellite TV when I had it. He's on magazine covers a fair bit and my wife likes him and has a Tanahashi key holder. An ex-colleague of hers used to give her his old wrestling magazines because she liked reading Tanahashi's column, so his face used to be lying around my apartment a bit, and I'm familiar with the story about his TV presenter girlfriend stabbing him in the back. I'm very much a lapsed Japanese wrestling fan and the longer I stay in Japan it seems the less interested in it I become, but I've started to watch a bit more of late and I'm trying to go into this with an open mind. Obviously, I'm aware of the upswing in interest in New Japan of late, but my only real thought on that is that it's cool that fans are enjoying some form of the modern product. So here goes, in bullet form: Tanahashi vs. Okada, 6/6/12 * The NJPW entrance set-up looks a bit cheap in a smaller venue. Why bother? * Crowd looked pretty decent sized by modern Japanese standards * Tanahashi's posing is pretty bad. What's with that air guitar gesture he does? Don't like the hair either. Okada has a better look and is cooler. He's got that yanki look down. He's like one of the Kameda brothers. * Onto the match, well I couldn't find a single thing Tanahashi did poorly. I was expecting his offence to look poor, but everything he did looked fine. I thought his strikes would be poor, but they weren't. I thought he wouldn't sell well, but he did. He has a nice looking plancha and I liked his dragon screw while Okada was in the ropes. His offence was no worse than Muto's or Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels or any number of 90s wrestlers I can think of. * The match was paced extremely well and never boring despite going reasonably long. Again I expected Tanahashi's psychology would be poor, but it was no different from what you usually get from Japanese wrestling. Nothing about the match would have looked out of place on a 90s New Japan card. Tanahashi sold his neck consistently and went back to Okada's leg a few times. Can't see the Toyota comparison in this one or the go-go style. I don't think this was even spotty by Japanese wrestling standards. * The crowd was really hot by the end. It may not have been a big crowd, but it was a big match by any standard. The nearfalls were exciting and worked well. Bear in mind that I never watch this stuff so it's not overkill for me, but I don't really see how fans of modern WWE can claim that there were any more counters to finishing moves and so on than your average John Cena match. That's not a knock on Cena, because I like Cena. Maybe it gets worse as the series progresses, I don't know. * Okada looked the less experienced of the two, but I kind of like the exaggerated movement he puts into dropkicks and his moves from the top and I thought his facial expressions during the stretch run were pretty cool. * I don't know about comparing this to 90s All Japan or anything, but I thought it was pretty great and at least a four star match by 90s New Japan standards. It struck me as a typically New Japan style match and like I said wouldn't look out of place on a 90s New Japan card whatsover. It wasn't any different to me than something like Liger vs. Ohtani. * I can see why fans who are into this are into it so much. If I was a young guy and wanted a workrate alternative to WWE booking the way I did in 1999 I would be into this. I don't really care about the hyperbole from Meltzer or anyone else, it was a good wrestling match. It didn't have a lot of the stuff I like in wrestling, but I was expecting it to be the worst indie type shit I'd ever seen and it wasn't. Not by a long shot. The experiment will continue tomorrow night.

Hughes didn't have this Universal deal you're talking about when he shot Sixteen Candles. Sixteen Candles was shot in the summer of '83 while Mr. Mom and National Lampoon were being released. Ned Tanen gave Hughes his chance at directing when he stepped down from Universal pictures to start up his own production company, Channel Productions. Warner Bros passed on the Sixteen Candles script because Hughes had demanded to direct it himself, despite having never directed a film or even been on a film set (according to Hughes.) Other studios passed on it, but Tanen picked it up. Universal agreed to produce both Sixteen Candles and Breakfast Club, but Tanen wanted Hughes to make Sixteen Candles first because he thought it was an easier project for a first time director. The Breakfast Club was shot before Sixteen Candles was released. I don't know the exact timing on Hughes getting his Universal deal but it was sometime after Candles was shot, Mr. Mom and National Lampoon were released and TBC went into production. I believe it was actually a three year deal not a three picture one and that Hughes was supposed to establish a comedy wing for Universal, but there was a change in power and they hated TBC because it wasn't Animal House meets Porky's. There's that legendary story of the execs presenting their re-cut trailer for how they were going to market TBC and Tanen throwing the mother of all boardroom fits. Ultimately, I believe Hughes got out of his Universal contract to follow Tanen to Paramount as Tanen was very much his protector. The reason I didn't mention anything about you running through the Brat Pack's history is that my basic point was that in the eyes of the public they didn't gain notoriety until '85. The name "Brat Pack" wasn't coined until June of '85 by that New York Magazine writer. That article is often credited with the paparazzi interest in St. Elmo's Fire's premiere and certainly didn't hurt its box office. If the worst time to release a film is January then the second worst time to release a film is February. No studio releases a film in February that they care about. Okay, but is it a surprise to you that it made more money than The Breakfast Club? That was my point. I don't think people in the industry would compare a film like Sixteen Candles to a blockbuster. They'd compare it to Risky Business. Sure, Rambo had a clever marketing strategy playing on the 10th anniversary of the United States' withdrawal from Vietnam and created a media barrage where even Regan was commenting on the film. It was the same kind of play on American patriotism as Hogan. It was also a comparatively weak year for summer releases. But you don't open in that many cinemas unless you have big expectations. Sure, and going back to the original, original point, Hogan was a bigger star than Molly.

You should sell this as a book.

What's the best Tanahashi/Okada match? I've never seen a Tanahashi match in my life.

The Savage/Tito feud is the bridge between Tito/Valentine and Savage/Steamboat. Santana and Martel were pretty awful interviews. Are you sure Steamboat was the worst of the three?

There's no evidence to suggest that Hughes wasn't tossed from Mr. Mom. Hughes was consistent about that from his earliest interviews and it's been corroborated by others. It's also consistent with the creative control he demanded from Universal. That deal wasn't on the table when Hughes wrote and pitched Breakfast Club, which happened a good year before Mr. Mom or National Lampoon were released. Hughes had no track record as a director at that stage. According to him that was the reason he chose to film TBC as his directorial debut since it was a low budget, single location shoot, but A&M didn't think much of the idea and Universal execs even less when it was finally made. They buried it with a February release, but it was a sleeper hit. The details may be off, but the general timeline on Hughes turning writer-director makes sense and I'm not seeing any McMahon-level fabrications. Regardless of how it panned out, it's a different kettle of fish from Rambo or Back to the Future. I know Zemeckis and Gale had a hard time getting Back to the Future made and there was a big risk of it bombing, but Fox was a star with Family Ties and the word of mouth it garnered was tremendous. Rambo II opened in over 2000 theaters, which was the first time in US cinema history. It got a huge push.

Also, what's a NJPW iPPV cost in Japan? Is it (the equilivant of) $45-$55? Hardly anyone has satellite or cable in Japan, whereas practically everyone has the internet. These are the prices for watching a show on the internet -- https://www.njpw.co.jp/news/detail.php?nid=10500 And this is the price for watching the same show on PPV -- http://www.skyperfectv.co.jp/genre/sports/list07/s02.html

Axel Dieter vs. Pat Roach (Hannover 1981) I really want to like this match as it's 30 minutes of Pat Roach, whose matches we have are almost always joined in progress, but it just doesn't go anywhere. This is second or third time I've tried watching it and I still can't find a hook to get me into it. Dieter stymies the match early on with boring holds, Roach roughs him up a bit and Dieter makes a comeback, but none of it is uninspired. In theory, this should be as good as Dieter vs. Moose Morowski, but it doesn't play out that way. Axel Dieter vs. Mile Zrno (Hannover 1981) This was a good match. It was quintessentially European, which made it easy for me to understand. The work wasn't that slick early on, but everything from the second round onward was solid and Dieter mixed in a lot of cool shit. Bull Power vs. Axel Dieter (8/30/86) It's a shame this is clipped as Vader brutalised the old man. Worth watching if you've got a spare couple of minutes.

There's a decent Santana vs. Buzz Sawyer match from Georgia. It's kind of structured a bit weirdly as Santana beats the crap out of Sawyer for most of the bout, but it's an example of good Tito.

The problem with 1989 is that the whole No holds Barred Hogan vs. Zeus feud sucked and then they got Beefcake involved. It's too bad the Earthquake thing couldn't have happened a summer early. I think I would have gone with Boss Man instead of Zeus.

Wasn't it supposed to be Beefcake who beat HTM? I guess they wanted someone to get the rub from defeating the longest running intercontinental champion of all time.

Rikidozan's son-in-law was the Minister of Sports and had close ties to Kim Jong-il and his brother-in-law. He got the bum's rush from junior, though. Inoki usually visits on the pretense of watching a sports event or attending some other ceremony while claiming he wants to open Japanese and North Korean talks or some such BS.

Inoki is in North Korea at the moment, which the Diet aren't too happy about, but it reminded me of this story about Inoki wanting a meeting with the Taliban: http://dawn.com/news/1048661/inoki-ready-t...ks-with-taliban

Togo seems like a cool dude. It's always refreshing how "Japanese" Japanese wrestlers are. Gordi will get what I mean, but aside from the odd exception they're just like regular folks. Togo reacted exactly the way you'd expect a Japanese person to react to all of your questions and especially the compliments you paid him. It's kind of tough to get Japanese folks to do any critical thinking or talk about themselves too much which is maybe why he didn't answer some of the finer points of your interview, but he seems cool.

After watching as much Mid-Atlantic Valentine as I could find, I wondered if I was wrong to like Valentine more than so many other American workers, then I watched the Strongbow stuff and had one of those if lovin' you is wrong I don't wanna be right epiphanies. Man, I dig those 70s-to-mid 80s Madison Square Garden crowds. When did the MSG vibe change? Is it post-SNME where it's not the same sort of wrestling crowd? Gorilla was FAT in 1979. Holy shit.