ohtani's jacket

I liked a lot of the concepts in this match, like Orton continually working the head and returning to the side headlock/sleeper, and the intensity levels were good (easily Cena's biggest match since Mania), but there were a lot of poor transitions. Lawler tried to sell it as a sign of how quickly the momentum could change, but you know the King had better transitions in his matches. Cena's spotty selling didn't help matters. It's not easy to sell during a comeback, especially when you've popped up all of a sudden. Cena knew he should stumble about a bit after hitting his move, but he was never very good at that type pf selling and by the end he had given up completely. Orton doesn't get enough credit for his ability to wrestle like a snake. Lawler alluded to him being like a boa constrictor when he had Cena tied up on the mat, but it's his viper-like selling that I enjoy, especially when he's about the strike for the RKO. I'm sure folks got sick of it over time, but Orton was pretty damn good at character work and his selling was great. Look at the way he sells the thought process about the punt. It was ruined by a shitty Cena counter, but it was a great piece of selling. Some of his other shit was weak, but I really liked that sequence. If the finish had been better, this may have flirted with four stars, but that pop up for the FU was atrocious. Shame on whoever booked that.

Why are we worried about Sting when Cena is still on the table?

Onita is a nice pick for #50. I find him kind of worthless as a wrestler, but he's a cool character. Volk should have been higher. If Sting vs. The NWO had a payoff, I'd be down with this placement. But it didn't. Surfer Sting is great.

You're welcome to post this as my blurb for Satanico if you like.

Shoot style is a tough sell. If Tamura had a G-1 run, he'd probably fare better, but then he wouldn't be Tamura.

I'm old. I had a hard enough time using the google form.

Disappointed that Devil, Satanico and Tamura didn't make the top 50. I can understand voters having cold feet over those styles of wrestling, but other wrestlers from those styles finished higher.

Folks really like Gunther, huh? That's an extremely high debut. Don't really care about The Rock's placement.

Arn pins Hogan again! That's a classic picture of Double A.

Suzuki's bleached blond hair made him look like a crazy albino. This was a good match. It was mostly centered around the mat given Suzuki's rep and the canvas being the place where Mutoh felt the least amount of physical pain. Once again, I enjoyed Mutoh's work despite my head telling me I shouldn't. Personally, I think he was just as good as Kobashi at overcoming his physical limitations, though Kobashi's highs were higher. A lot of that had to do with the respective health of their promotions, however. I didn't love Suzuki's performance, but I've made peace with the fact that he's not Fujiwara. He shows flashes of greatness, but he spends too much time poking his tongue out and sneering instead of crafting a masterpiece. Others may find this Fujiwarian but not me.

I like a lot of stuff Hogan did early in his career before Vince took wrestling out of the bingo halls. The early Andre matches are slobber knockers. Even after he developed his formula, he mostly brought his working boots. He moved fairly well for a guy his size. I dunno. It's hard to hate on 80s Hogan. When I think of bad Hogan, it's monster trucks, Thunder in Paradise, and Dungeon of Doom.

Muto falls. What's that old saying about death, taxes, and people loving Kenji Muto? I remember back in the tape trading days belonging to match review groups where you'd get a free tape based on what the group voted for. It was maddening how many people wanted Muto tapes. I've gotta admit that I've softened on Muto over time. There was a time when I would have expressed my displeasure at this result, but I enjoyed watching Shining Wizard Muto against Kawada and Tenryu, Perhaps it was seeing his face plastered all over vending machines and outside pachinko parlors. For a long time, he was one of the most visible wrestlers whenever I was out and about.

Huge second fall comeback from Mistico. I've noticed that his resurgence has led to renewed interest in his older stuff. The last time I watched an Asuka match was around 2010, and I've never seen an Iyo Sky match. I should probably do something about that. Ishii I'm cool with. I used to have a low opinion of Dusty's ring work, but I became a fan watching old Florida clips. I don't think people comment enough on how hard he worked to get into shape in the late 70s as he was gearing up the NWA title. Dude was lean. Lithe, if you will. I do think his promo work is a factor, but how could it not? I could listen to Dusty commentate over his own footage for hours. In fact, I have. I don't get the Cody talking point considering that both Dusty and Dustin finished above him. I think it's more of pushback to the idea that Dusty sucked in the ring; The same thing happened to a lesser degree with Bruno and Superstar Graham.

Man, if only shodate had voted. Maybe he did.

While it's true that Ikeda was disappointing in NOAH, it's just NOAH.

Volk Han was one of the ultimate pro-wrestling showmen. I can't remember which Yamamoto match it is, but the finish is one of the all-time great pro-wrestling finishes. The kind of finish that makes you wan t to go out and run a marathon. Something like Tamura/Kohsaka, on the other hand, is much more heady.

I appreciate all that, but sometimes you want a little more. I'd say the same thing about other wrestlers too such as Onita. It's the flipside of the argument that Misawa is a great wrestler who doesn't show any emotion. Choshu shows a huge amount of emotion but doesn't wrestle enough. I know you've watched an ungodly amount of Choshu in recent times, but I have it seared into my brain that Choshu vs. Hashimoto was good whereas Choshu and Jumbo going broadway was tough going.

BattlARTS was some of the best wrestling of the late 90s. It was basically a hybrid juniors style and extremely different from the pure RINGS style. RINGS will always be more beautiful to me, but BattlARTS was interesting in the same way that Casas and Wagner cribbing shoot style holds was interesting. The '98 and '99 Ishikawa/Ikeda matches are some of my favorite matches ever. Given you loved ARSION, it's odd that you never gave BattlARTS much of a chance.

The AEW effect was overstated, and no doubt a kneejerk reaction to the territory guys dropping, but that's part of what makes the reveal fun. This is a reaction thread. The deeper analysis can be done later. If we're talking about someone like Tanahashi, then yes there was a resistance from some quarters to place him highly in 2016, but New Japan was still in the mid of its mid-10s peak. It won't surprise me if Okada and Tanahashi do extremely well this time due to the time that's elapsed. If they don't, then it will be interesting to ponder the reasons.

Ishikawa was positioned as the top wrestler in BattlARTS, so that may have something to do with it. He was an Inoki worshipper, so there's an element of self-aggrandizing in the way he carries himself character-wise. Ikeda always came across as Ishikawa's dance partner in BattlARTS. It wasn't until I saw Ikeda in Futen that I thought he came into his own. That was often the case in shoot style where guys had to get out from other people's shadow. With Choshu, I think how much you rate him depends on how you value the cultural impact he had on Japanese wrestling. People overuse the term "influence" a lot, but Choshu is easily one of the most influential Japanese wrestlers of all-time. More so than Jumbo or Tenryu. If you're looking from it strictly from an in-ring perspective, he's good, but great? I dunno. I've come to appreciate strong style a lot more over the years, but mechanically speaking, Choshu has his limitations.

We were asked when we started watching wrestling. The number of people who began watching in the 70s and 80s was extremely small, as were the number of people who participated in the 2006 and 2016 polls. There may be a handful of people who discovered wrestling later in life, but I think it's safe to say that it was a younger demographic that voted. Are they influenced by outdated opinions? Perhaps to some degree, but you can't expect the entire foundation to crumble just because you've decided to nail your flag to modern guys' mast. The results have been surprising so far in that they haven't swung one way or the other. That suggests, to me anyway, that instead of staid opinions dominating the list, there's a mixture of all sorts of exploration going on.

I'm pretty sure every person who voted for Regal can point to a match they thought was great. The number of older voters who hated 00s Japanese and indie wrestling is miniscule. The number of old voters in general was miniscule. I don't this holds much water in this year's vote.

I wouldn't put Regal in my top 10 European workers, but he's always going to win the popular vote. I've only watched bits and pieces of KENTA's mid-00s work. I can see why he was popular the time. Neither guy strikes me as particularly divisive.

I didn't vote for Takayama, but he fits the bill for that aura farming thing. Baba still has people's respect. I can't remember who finished higher last time, Inoki or Baba. You'd have to think it was Baba. I thought the Osprey kid would do better.

Probably, but to be fair, his nomination post is mostly filled with posts from a decade ago.