Kain

OK. Where can I get those?! 😲

Even HeadCheese were better than the Young Bucks. 😝

Interesting one. I'm not all that big on Shawn in general and I'm a lot more fine with Omega than most people would give me credit for. But I still don't think that he's as great as a lot of people make him out to be. Omega does some stuff I find very annoying. I think he might've dropped some of it. That's stuff like spraying the ice spray to his balls and his goofy facial expressions. I also think that he's one of the Guys that does long Matches for the sake of having long Matches and that many of those would've been better if they were a little shorter. That includes the ones against Okada, to be honest. The same could be said for Shawn, esp. after the Comeback. He developed a really strange way to oversell. I'm not sure how to accurately describe it. It's the instances when he gets hit and than staggers around in a totally over the top way before he falls and such crap. Always looks like he's going for some cheap pop or something. He always had tendency to oversell, but before it was all still rather tame compared to the Comeback Years. So, I'm not big on that stuff. And as far as being goofy: I can really think of only one occassion for Shawn off the top of my hat. And DX doing that Match for the European Title made sense for them as they annoyed the Authority Figure (Slaughter). So, I much prefer Shawn from 1986 to 1998. Starting with the Midnight Rockers vs. Somers/Rose, the Rockers vs. the Rougeaus, Powers of Pain (insanely entertaining stuff), Hart Foundation and Brain Busters and his Singles Run vs. Diesel, Razor, Mankind, Undertaker and Austin. Strangely enough I don't care much for most of his Matches against Bret. I think that re-watchability is the most important sign of a great Match. Oddly enough it's also an aspect most people don't talk about it. I've rewatched a lot of Pre-Comeback Shawn tons. Post-Comeback not so much. The same with Omega, to be honest. Once is enough. Re-visiting it I zone out pretty quickly. Which goes back to having Matches being long for the sake of being long, I guess. So, somewhat begrudgingly, I have to go with Shawn here.

Nice one. A lot tougher than many would give it credit for. And I do get it. Not so long ago I would've said Regal without a doubt. Common Wisdom is, that Greg is about as interesting as watching paint dry. Turns out common Wisdom is very wrong. This Guy has had some tremendous Matches against Bob Backlund. Probably one of Bob's Top 3 Challengers back in the day, if not #1. Stuff with Piper and Flair, the Dream Team. Regal was great for what he did. If we're honest that was rarely in a Main Event Environment. He's one of the better TV Champions in the 90s when the Belt arguably had the lowest meaning in its History. He's got a way to do great Stuff with smaller Opponents like Ùltimo Dragón and others oft the Cruiserweight Division. And when he was part of a Match it was usually pretty good. But not as good as Valentine's best stuff. Hell, I didn't even mention Tito. Funny thing is, that I could think of more Dream Matches for Regal than for the Hammer. With him there's a Dream Partner, though. That's Riki Choshu. For the most shallow of reasons. They kinda look like they're Brothers from different Mothers. The same basic Outfit, the same Haircut, the same Build, the same Height, both more on the deliberate side of Speed (which isn't a bad Thing) and both did that thing where they were rotating their Arm before a Move, Greg before the Elbow and Choshu before the Lariat. Overall I have to go with the Hammer while personally liking Regal a bit more.

Perhaps. But that would still be exceptions.

It's Flair for me. If you'd ask me who my favorite Guy out of ROH is, the Answer is Bryan Danielson. When I stopped following WWE he was a Guy at least tried to pay Attention to. But if I were to rank all the Matches I've ever seen pretty much everything that has Flair vs. Steamboat, Windham, Savage, Jumbo, Funk ... would be there before Bryan has his first Appearance on that list. There'd probably be even more when I really put my mind to it, Bryan is likely the better Person, he's a great Wrestler for sure, but there aren't many I'd have over Flair when it comes to being the greatest Wrestler ever. The Candicates for that would be Chigusa Nagayo, Bret Hart, Terry Funk & Jumbo Tsuruta.

I honestly don't know if he's overrated. Certainly not because I don't care much for him, but maybe so. Perhaps it's a reaction of him being underrated in other regards. Which he is as he's not half as bad as you'd think given some of the reactions he's got over the years.

Bret. I've never connected to Cena at all. He's basically a toilet break for me. Metaphorically speaking, I never did that. At the same time I never got the "you can't wrestle" or "same old shit" he got. I remember the Match vs. RVD when he did that Legdrop-Thing from the top on the opponent that was about to stand up which was a somewhat new move in his Arsenal at the time and they changed "same old shit". Never got that. That Match is also the only one I can think of that I would re-visit. Other than that I don't ever need to see another Match by Cena ever again in my life, to be honest.

Bret, easily. I'd rather re-visit Bret than Rey. Not that I wouldn't re-visit some Rey but with him it's the opponents and it's up to a certain point. I can't remember a Rey-Match after early 2005 that I've actually liked. And before that if it's vs. Eddie, Último Dragón, Dean Malenko, Psicosis and Kurt Angle I'm all for it. If it's vs. anybody else chances are that I didn't much care for the Match and see no reason to re-visit it. I can pretty much watch any Bret-Match at any given time.

I wish we had more Valiant Brothers but even just as the Boogie Woogie Man it's Valiant.

Tough one. When I first discovered the Territories World Class became my first favorite which is more or less on the Freebirds vs. von Erichs. I agree that we don't have enough footage of Fritz and that it might be different if we had more. I also agree that what we have is pretty great. But I don't think I could vote for him based on just that. As glad as I am that we have what we have. I've barely seen anything from Waldo and I don't think that anyone would give the vote to Mike or Lacey (or Lance and Chris for that matter). So it's between the Brothers 3 for me. We had the WWF in Germany and Texas Tornado was around. I liked him. That gives him a head start. David was the first one I've checked out. Someone had something available like "Tough Guys of Wrestling" which included David, Dynamite Kid, Steve Williams and Terry Gordy. From that I went to WCCW and did some googleing on them/World Class. One interesting point someone had back then was, that David got the Charisma, Kevin got the Ability in the Ring and Kerry was a mix of both but not as good as either of his Brothers in their resp. strong suits. I'm not sure that I agree, but it's something to play with. David's career was cut short. Had we more the result might be different, esp. if he had become the World Champion and that had worked out. I do think that his Matches are the least memorable. Not bad, mind you. But when it comes to this I do prefer both his Brothers. And while it's always great to see Kevin I do think that Kerry's stuff stands out a lot more. Not just the stuff with the Birds, also vs. Flair, Lawler, Killer Khan, Mr. Perfect and even him teaming with the Warrior in the WWF. So, I'm going with Kerry.

My heart says Ozaki. But I'm not voting on this one. I've gotta be reasonable. At least a bit. I've never really warmed up to Lucha so I don't feel I can fairly judge Park. However, Ozaki would win a lot of these for me.

That's a tough one for me, but I'm gonna go with Bret here. Other than Steamer's Matches with Flair I'm far more inclined to re-visit Bret's stuff. I do wish they had more Matches against each other.

Masami vs. Nagayo from August 22 1985 (the same Show as the Jaguar/Lioness-Match) has ever been the most glaring ommission to me.

I see. I was wondering if it was a rib or something. Gotta say, I'm barely familiar with BattleArts. Even after the Match I have no idea which ones were Usuda and Hijikata. Thank you.

I'm watching this right now. What's the deal with the Inoki-Disguise and his music?

I've started to compile possible Candidates. Already about 300 Name. Always the feeling that I've missed someone. Even have some Lucha Guys on it, though I doubt they'll make my list. Strictly Lucha Guys I mean. I've excludes People that arguably should be on there when I either haven't seen enough of them or never in a concentrated way (like only a Match every few years or so) so that I don't feel I could competently rank them. One such example would be Bobo. Those decisions don't reflect on any given Persons greatness, of course.

Thank you.

I've just browsed through the list of Nominees. Pretty extensive. At first glance I've not seen any omissions. I will put together a list for myself and do a more thorough check. If I were to nominate one I'd do it in the Nominees-Thread?

Hello there. I'm here because of Elliott from Twitter. At this point I don't know if he's using the same name here. I'm from Germany and I'm a Wrestling Fan since about the turn from the 80s to the 90s. At the beginning we've had a little NWA-Stuff (I wanna say from after Turner took over Crockett, but it's a long ass time ago) and the WWF. NWA wasn't there for a long time. So I've started with what was then Titan. There were a couple of times it wasn't on because stuff of whatever happened at those TV-Stations. In one of those breaks WCW started. With a a strange time frame. When the WWF was back Diesel was part of the programming. When I've seen WCW again a couple of weeks later there was Vinnie Vegas. So I've wondered if Diesel left. But he was on the next WWF Show and I've wondered if he's pulling some sort of Double Duty. With no Wrestling Media around ... The early WWF Shows were more or less the Wild West in the sense that they (mainly then-commentator Carsten Schäfer) could pretty much do what they want. Unthinkable today (and for many years). An example would be that back in the day instead of the Wrestlers' entrances they showed ... Sed Cards I guess you'd have to call it with a bit of info on the Wrestlers. These included for example that the Undertaker has been Texas Red and the the Texas Tornado was once NWA World Champion. Carsten is a somewhat controversial figure. But in those days he was the one that kept pushing to bring WWF back whenever it lost its slot. He's probably the reason why I've developed in interest in older stuff. He sometimes mentioned historical figures like Verne. Apparently he didn't know how to pronounce it because for years and years I thought it's Verne Gain because that's how he said it. In the late 90s they even sometimes showed older stuff. I remember having seen Bobo Brazil for the first time in that format. For some reason that stopped pretty soon. Late 90s is also when I started to become active on the Internet on the German Message Boards, starting with some really small one (don't remember the name), a very short stint on the Forums of Power Wrestling before Moonsault started and then helping found genickbruch.com (original, German version of wrestlingdata.com). I've been helping out there on and off for over twenty years now. That led to discovering Tape Traders and interests in Japan and Death Matches. First stuff I bought were "Best of Sets" of Cactus Jack and Raven, the "King of the Death Match Tournment" and some FMW. From that I went to Crockett-Supercards (early Starrcades, whatever GAB-Material I could get my hands on, first couple of Clashes). And then came the Internet, I guess. I quickly fell out of love with Death Matches. Though I guess that's because of more modern stuff where they basically just do the Hardcore Stuff and little else because I've recently been watching Stuff from BAHUS FMW Top 100 and have enjoyed quite a bit of it. Not everything, but a lot. Checked out Japan, the Territories, Mexico. Never really warmed up to Lucha, despite numerous tries. Even if I liked something I didn't really get it. There was a Multi Man Thing on the 90s Top 20 I really enjoyed. But I didn't really understand what was going on. As far as Puro is concerned I've always been more of a New Japan Guy than All Japan. I'd have Inoki before Baba, the Musketeers before the Pillars and quite frankly I haven't seen a Minute of All Japan in well over a Decade. The one exception in that preference is the Protoges. I like Jumbo a lot more than Fujinami (though I do like both). Also I prefer All Japan before the 90s. When that thing with the Internet started I've stumbled upon a certain Match between Chigusa Nagayo and Devil Masami via TheDitch. Massive Fan ever since, especially of Chigusa. I've recently watched a big 80s Joshi Set compiled by a Person that goes by the Name of Kadaveri (I guess he's here too?) which was fantastic. As is the recent discovery of a Devil-Jaguar-Match. Through that Set I've learned of Jackie Sato and Yumi Ikeshita and I think that we need a Time Machine to get more footage of those two. An early favorite of mine was the Undertaker. Everyone else in School was a Hogan Fan. Me too, actually. But Taker fascinated me. Maybe because I've started to dress mostly black about two years before discovering Wrestling. Bret Hart was a Hero here. Probably still is. There's 3 guys people here outside the Wrestling Bubble generally tend to know: Hogan, Taker and Bret. When discovering the Territories World Class quickly became a favorite. Later it was turned over by Mid-South. I've avoided Memphis for many, many years because I didn't care for Lawler in the WWF/E. So mostly his Commentary. That changed when I saw the DVDVR-Set and I can now appreciate Lawler's work prior to Vinnie Land. I'm not big on modern Wrestling. That started about 2007ish. I quit following WWE when Jeff Hardy became World Champion. I've checked out stuff over the years for various reasons. People starting to talk about The Shield about 12 or so years ago for instance. I got the 2 DVDs they did. I liked Roman, I was fine with Seth despite never liking Tyler Black, I didn't care for Ambrose who acted like he's Brian Pillman on a Leash. That not so Loose Cannon. I've checked out NXT because rumblings about the Ladies. People didn't like when I've told them that I've seen better Matches pointing out to something mentioned earlier. AEW was introduced. People started posting massive Lists of Wrestler who would now get their well-deserved Main Event Runs. People didn't like when I pointed out that it's impossible for all the 150 Wrestlers on their Lists to get a Main Event Run. I've checked out AEW ... Not really for me. Especially that Guy Moxley who now, for some reason, desperately tried to be Onita (last time I saw any of his stuff anyway). I've been most loyal to New Japan in that time. But that kinda changed in recent years, too. So, yeah, modern Wrestling is not for me. And I'm fine with it because there's still enough old stuff to find. In particular order some of my favorites: - Bret Hart - Midnight Express - Jumbo Tsuruta - Great Muta - Freebirds - Flair - Taker - Tanahashi - Jake Roberts - Masa Saito - Bockwinkel - Heenan - Chigusa - Devil Masami - Mayumi Ozaki - Terry Funk Well, that's it. For now anyway.