Grimmas

13 - Genichiro Tenryu 2006 Ranking: 21 Points: 11318 #1 Votes: 5 #2 Votes: 3 #3 Votes: 9 Top 10 Votes: 39 # of Ballots: 131 Average Vote: 17.51 High Vote: 1 (Tanner Teat, Dean Rasmussen, djhaigh, Microstatistics, & ???) Low Vote: 81 Discussion Thread "Grumpy, lumpy, and indefatigable. A wandering sumo ronin of mythic proportions. You couldn't make up Tenryu if you tried." Jon Burr "Never boring, never had a down period, great for over 20 years, incomparable presence." djhaigh "Next to Jumbo, the best Japanese wrestler I can think of. His post 2000 run really adds to his portfolio." Dave Musgrave "6-9 are to respect the Japanese wrestling community, and to not throw off the voting average by not including them high enough, despite not having as deep a knowledge of their careers. Seeing their names on the list, this high, I would not question." Steven White "He faced a who's who of the best wrestlers from the U.S. and Japan accumulating high quality matches throughout his career." Moonsault Marvin "enryu is definitely a wrestler where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. His execution is sometimes flat out horrible, but it almost doesn't matter at all. He usually wrestles like he's in the Tokyo Dome, even when he's working a smaller venue. He's in the Choshu-Hashimoto-Onita group of guys who are so great at projecting themselves as larger than life through body language and facial expressions. I still need to wade through most of his 80s resume outside of the super classics, but I know his rep there is that it took him some time to find his voice. Definite top tier pick for me." Loss Recommended Matches: Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (AJPW, 1/28/1986) Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen vs Giant Baba & Rusher Kimura (AJPW, 11/29/1989) Genichiro Tenryu vs Satoshi Kojima (AJPW, 7/17/2002)

148 is most amount of ballots anyone appeared on. Vader and two others got that many votes. It's strange not one person could get on all ballots.

151 ballots.

14 - Vader 2006 Ranking: 17 Points: 11140 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 1 #3 Votes: 1 Top 10 Votes: 16 # of Ballots: 148 Average Vote: 26.24 High Vote: 2 Low Vote: 83 Discussion Thread "Hopefully I'm not the high vote on him. Probably could have talked myself into making him #1. Surely my favorite guy to watch. Stiffness, violence, match construction. " djhaigh "Versatility is an odd choice of word since he's basically just Vader wherever he goes, but I think it is a credit to him that he is so universal that he can turn up anywhere - WCW, WWF, AWA, NJPW, AJPW, UWFI, etc. - and get over and have good matches just by Being Vader. He's one of those wrestling skeleton keys - opens any lock. I think it was shoot-style Vader that really sold me on him more than anything else. Having a big fat American in a mask come in and throw powerbombs and shit in a shoot-style environment sounds so wacky and counter-productive on the surface, but he does exactly that and it's fucking awesome. Vader is great in UWFI because he's able to portray both being a legitimately dangerous mountain of a man, AND being a shooting novice who is totally out of his element. He has no real defense for grappling or leg kicks or anything else MMAish, but he could also swipe your whole head off your shoulders if you aren't careful. I love the dynamic. That's the key to Vader everywhere really, like Brock he's big and powerful enough, and has enough of a badass aura that he can take the nutty bumps he does, get knocked down as often as he does, and sell as much as he does without losing any of his credibility. And his agility goes both ways too - he will bump all over the place, but he can also come off the top with a dive in a way that dudes his size just can't, which turns it back into something that makes him dangerous. The Sting series in amazing and some of my favourite ever 90s matches. I really love his UWFI run - vs Takada, Tamura, Yamazaki, etc. Hansen matches. Flair match. Final Four. Lots of great stuff, and I haven't really seen anything from NJ." Jimmy Redman Recommended Matches: Vader vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW, 4/24/1989) Vader vs Sting (WCW The Great American Bash, 7/12/1992) Vader vs Nobuhiko Takada (UWFI, 8/18/1994) NOTE: Highest ranked wrestler without a number 1 vote. NOTE: Tied, with two others, for most amount of votes.

Yeah, this should quiet some (I hope) that talked about mainstream voters ruining things. From 56 to 16!

The person is next. Working on the post now, so get your guesses in now.

15 - Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat 2006 Ranking: 13 Points: 11050 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 1 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 16 # of Ballots: 144 Average Vote: 24.64 High Vote: 2 (Derek C) Low Vote: 86 Discussion Thread "Best babyface ever and the architect of some of the best feuds and matches in wrestling history. Bonus points for his real name being RICHARD BLOOD." Jon Burr "The best babyface seller I can think of. As mentioned in Flair's section, his 1989 series with Flair has actually improved with time." Dave Musgrave "Ever since I watched Wrestlemania 3 the first time, Steamboat stood out as a favorite of mine. Fast forward to watching the Clash 6 match against Flair, the Clash 17 match against the Enforcers and I was just astonished at what the man could do. He is simply one of the best babyfaces that has ever been in pro wrestling. " mprice "I've always been a fan. I've always been a fan of his storytelling in the ring. To me he's the ultimate babyface worker. He's had great matches or feuds with a variety of wrestlers. You have Flair, Savage, Rude, Roberts, Austin, Blanchard, Anderson, Pillman, Muraco, Windham, Slater, Slaughter, Kernodle and a host of others.He had great single matches. He was one of the great tag workersin the likes of Anderson,Eaton, and that ilk. Young talent that worked with him usually learned from him and evolved into better wrestlers. Some of these guys are like Luger, Austin, Pillman, and Dustin Rhodes." Shoe Recommended Matches: Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage (WWF WrestleMania, 3/29/1987) Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair (2/3 Falls, NWA Clash of the Champions, 4/2/1989) Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude (Iron Man, WCW Beach Blash, 6/20/1992)

16 - Nick Bockwinkel 2006 Ranking: 56 Points: 10799 #1 Votes: 2 #2 Votes: 3 #3 Votes: 8 Top 10 Votes: 33 # of Ballots: 132 Average Vote: 21.41 High Vote: 1 (Matt D & Lee Casebolt) Low Vote: 96 Discussion Thread "If he had more footage/had I watched more, he could have been No. 1. Incredible in every respect. " MoS "Imagine if the only footage we had of Ric Flair was post-1995, plus some highlights of Flair/Steamboat and maybe his '70s match with Chris Taylor. Just eliminate his prime entirely. That's basically what we have of Bockwinkel, and he's still an obviously elite talent on the level of a Flair, Funk, Hansen, etc. It doesn't take too much imagination to fill in the blanks and come up with the best wrestler ever." Lee Casebolt "There are so many things that Nick Bockwinkel did so well that it's hard to even know where to start. What I'd like to do, to begin, is list out his range, a number of roles that he was effective in playing, and that he was able to wrestle good to great matches (some all-timers) while achieving. This is in no order: 1. Bumping, stooging heel for aging legend (Vs Verne, Mad Dog, Crusher, Baron) 2. Bumping, stooging vulnerable champion for up and and coming Ace babyface (Vs Hogan) 3. Reluctantly cheered champion holding the line vs a foreign threat (Vs Al-Kassie) 4. Comedy kingpin with a bunch of goons vs Super-babyfaces (with Heenan family Vs. Andre and Hogan) 5. Heel champion Ace vs technical up and coming babyfaces (vs Rheingans) 6. Tag role of the same (With Stevens vs High Flyers) 7. Southern tag heel (w/Saito vs Gagnes or Hennigs, or High-flyers) 8. Confident heel champ vs established technical opponent (vs Martel) 9. Same as a heel challenger establishing said new babyface champ. 10. Vulnerable but dangerous heel champion against deadly brawler (vs Wahoo) 11. Travelling champ who underestimates local hero (vs Chavo) 12. Snobby outsider champ who DOESN'T underestimate local hero but has to have a number of varied matches with him without losing the title (vs Lawler) 13. Fiery babyface wanting revenge (crazy sprint vs Zbyszko) 14. John Wayne (vs Hansen) 15. Super technical in front of a Japanese audience (vs Funk and vs Robinson) 16. Aging, cagey veteran trying to survive against a young babyface slowly surpassing him (vs Hennig) 17. US Supermatch that has to end in a draw (vs. Flair) 18. Travelling heel champ stooging big for the local hero while staying credible (vs JYD) 19. Desperate heel up against monsters (the clips we have vs Andre or Ladd) 20. Very strong shorter match TV worker during the Showboat era (vs. Debeers) And that's what we have from maybe 76-86, when he around 40 to just over 50. He spent decades of his career as a babyface. And there are more. I just picked twenty different in-ring functions that he had to do and had to do well, many of them calling upon different skills and talents, that involve someone actively wrestling differently. I could have given more examples of matches for almost every category too, with almost all of them being very good to great. That, to me is amazing. The only other people who would come close to this are #1 contenders, and almost all of those benefit from us having much more of their physical prime on tape or from working more broadly in multiple territories (though Bock, of course did. We just don't have a ton of that on tape; most of what we do is great). He was able to accomplish this through deeply and thoroughly understanding pro wrestling and storytelling, through engaging the crowd, through knowing when to give and when to take, knowing how to maximize moments and momentum, to fully committing to his role at all times. He was incredible at portraying emotion in matches, jubilant when causing punishment and terrified when getting overwhelmed. He refused to let the crowd dictate what he was doing, but instead forced them into line with what was best for them and the match, adapting but never surrendering ("You're boring them Martel!" being my favorite single wrestling moment I've seen in the last five years, maybe?). Everything had purpose. There are wrestlers, great wrestlers, who can string more-or-less unrelated chapters together so that their matches are better than the sum of their parts, so that they make a symbolic, thematic, more or less satisfying whole, but Bockwinkel was able to relate the chapters to one another so that he never had to do that. There wasn't that need for symbolism because the text stood on its own. It was finding the perfect moment to turn the babyface's offensive rush into a King of the Mountain heat segment, or how to start countering one bit of bodypart work with the opposite equivalent, and so on. There's no sixty minute match I've ever seen which tells so involved a story as Hennig vs Bockwinkel. I've never been satisfied with the idea that wrestling isn't a good medium for storytelling, because I've seen it. That match shows that it's possible, and not just over ten minutes but over sixty, and that it can be the most compelling thing in the world. He created stories that mattered to people, that resonated, that moved them, and he made it seem so flawless and so natural. There was so much variation, too. I can barely wrap my head around how he managed it. And of course the fundamentals were there. He bumps around the ring like a pinball for Verne Gagne. His long-term limb selling is exceptional, and he had a way of selling fatigue from a long match in the finishing stretch like almost no one else. I believe that selling is the key to creating meaning in wrestling and it's hard not to watch his performances and think that he'd been through a war and that maybe, just maybe, he was going to lose that title (and if he did, the babyface would have EARNED it). His matwork was wonderful, holds and counters, perfect timing, great facial expressions and trash talk, and screaming in pain when he was on the wrong end of it. His strikes were snug. His offense was varied. He moved in and out of holds so well in the opening segment of a match; there was such flow to it. He cheated extremely well (and man was he a great southern tag heel), and as a babyface, he could both garner sympathy and swallow the heel alive with righteous fury. That's the thing. he's not just a smart worker. He's a total package. At age 45, he could still outFunk prime Funk, outFlair prime Flair and even, at times, outHansen prime Hansen. But, almost always, he only goes to that level when it makes sense to go there, when the value is there, when the needs of the match calls for it. I don't think it's a big spoiler. He's my #1. There are amazing wrestlers on my list in the #2-9 spots, some of the most talented, skilled, brilliant, sound, varied people imaginable, with hundreds of great matches to prove their worth. I just can't imagine any of them in that #1 slot instead of Bockwinkel." Matt D Recommended Matches: Nick Bockwinkel vs Billy Robinson (AWA, 12/11/1980) Nick Bockwinkel vs Wahoo McDaniel (AWA, 8/28/1983) Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig (AWA, 11/21/1986)

17 - Bret "Hitman" Hart 2006 Ranking: 9 Points: 10757 #1 Votes: 9 #2 Votes: 6 #3 Votes: 3 Top 10 Votes: 21 # of Ballots: 138 Average Vote: 26.14 High Vote: 1 (Andrew Lacelle, NotJayTabb, Scarlet-Left, Beast, BAMptb, Hasan Mulla, jpchicago23, The Chief, & ???) Low Vote: 89 Discussion Thread "Greatest Canadian pro wrestler ever (when it comes to his career overall). He was one of the top workers in North America for several years." stunning_grover "His range of work is at an elite level. Great work against a wide variety of opponents. Diesel, Owen, Yoko, Lawler, etc. He had the most dynamic heel/babyface run in 97 ive ever seen. Hes my personal favorite which also helps." jpchicago23 "A WWE ace who could be responsible for having kept them in business. I think his late-WCW run is underrated, as is his final WWF match against Michaels before they did the screwjob finish." Dave Musgrave "Slumming it on house shows? Ok, if anyone can show me 100+ matches from a single wrestler from a single year where that person is never, ever taking a night off and always giving 4*+ performances then I'll consider that a valid argument. I'll go controversial: Bret suffers from anti-WWF-bias. If he'd been completely the same guy, but had been in the NWA/WCW 85-97, he'd be in most people's top 10. Who cares that the company had a ton of crap in that period? Bret was brilliant!." Danish Dynamite "Hart carried U.S. wrestling on his shoulders during the dark days of the mid '90s with some of the greatest performances in wrestling history," Moonsault Marvin Recommended Matches: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (WWF WrestleMania, 3/20/1994) Bret Hart vs Diesel (No Holds Barred, WWF Survivor Series, 11/19/1995) Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Submission, WWF WresetleMania, 3/23/1997)

Nobody is right so far

Sorry Musgrave.

Winner getting a comp? Can I guess?

Sorry it's not going to happen.

More Chad, please?

Kelly did an hour podcast making Savage's case.

17 folks remain and only two of them did not receive #1 votes.

18 - "Macho Man" Randy Savage 2006 Ranking: 44 Points: 10548 #1 Votes: 4 #2 Votes: 5 #3 Votes: 2 Top 10 Votes: 24 # of Ballots: 138 Average Vote: 26.46 High Vote: 1 (Goodear, Chris Powell, Scott Bernard, & Kelly Nelson) Low Vote: 99 Discussion Thread "Savage is as close to a complete package as any I've ever seen, next to maybe only Flair. He could end up anywhere in my top 5. In the weird mix of storytelling, sport, violence for kids, childishness for adults, blood, sex, fun, aggression, nostalgia and all around awesomeness that is wrestling, Randy Savage is the true total package. The man was pure art! Johnny Sorrow said it best: He's the fucking Macho Man! Oh yeah!" Danish Dynamite Recommended Matches: Randy Savage vs Jerry Lawler (Memphis, 6/3/1985) Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (WWF WrestleMania, 3/24/1991) Randy Savage vs Diamond Dallas Page (WCW Spring Stampede, 4/17/1997)

19 - "The Enforcer" Arn Anderson 2006 Ranking: 34 Points: 9443 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 4 # of Ballots: 144 Average Vote: 35.49 High Vote: 5 (Lisa Lewis) Low Vote: 89 Discussion Thread "Arn elevated everything he was in, and his volume of good stuff is huge. Great tag worker, excellent TV singles worker, added all kinds of nifty touches to multi-man matches. Could swing from comedy to deadly seriousness as smoothly as anyone. He's a guy you'd want in your wrestling company and the perfect representative of the MattD school of what makes a wrestler good (or at least my interpretation of that)." Childs "Arn is one of my five favorite wrestlers ever, but I also think he is an easy pick for this project on merit. If you want to argue that he lacks that one definitively great singles match I suppose that's possible, but hes been in some tremendously great tags and multi-man matches where he's been a stand out performer. More importantly I would argue that Arn was one of the single most consistent wrestlers I've ever seen. He broke in as a big player in 85 and was effectively done by early 96 IIRC, and I really don't think he lost much of anything at any point, as he always had good matches against anyone he was asked to work with during that stretch. Even in 95 WCW which was the absolute shits in many ways, Arn had a good year, to the point where I think he was the best guy in WCW and arguably even the entire U.S. that year. He also gets extra points for me for having two of my all time favorite offensive spots - the Arn spinebuster and the Arn DDT. That is to say nothing of his stooging and the multiple roles he could play even within the context of a single bout. He's obviously not a tip top tier guy, and I'm thinking he'll be middle of the pack on my ballot, but if someone argued him up around the 25 mark I wouldn't think it was odd." Dylan Waco Recommended Matches: Arn Anderson vs Great Muta (WCW, 1/20/1990) The Enforcers vs Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes (WCW Clash of the Champions, 11/19/1991) Arn Anderson vs Steven Regal (WCW SuperBrawl, 2/20/1994)

Who what when where. Still waiting for an answer here.If you think I'll release you PM'S, you are nuts.

To be clear, no elitist lists will be created. I will do some variations, but no pwo superior list. If you don't like that, well, sorry.

No. People were waiting and not going to participate because assholes were shitting on their journey. Welcoming everybody put more people on the journey. Do you think Buddy would be watched by this many people if the process was closed?

Not going to happen.

Why does it need to be one extreme or the other? Because the project was about the fucking journey, not some cobcebsys list. If we didn't ask people to vite, what would be the point?

Let's just keep it to the most vocal who participated. What if we just took parv, Dylan and Matt d,s list. What would that have looked like?

Agreed, but only 70% of voters voted for lucha.