Grimmas

Foley's book talks about a house show where he did a hardcore match with bags of popcorn and other such sillyness as the weapons. I don't think he dogged it in the ring, really, just that he would rather be at home with his family. Wrestling was his 9-5 job and he tried, but it wasn't his passion like it was for Punk.

That Hokuto match is not a normal Toyota match, I feel that is very much Hokuto making her work a Hokuto match. Prolonged selling by Toyota is something that maybe comes in 93, because I've watched everything from her debut till 92 in the last year and she sucks at that aspect. I am failing to see the comparison, maybe I'm just blind. She grew up watching Dragon Gate, I thought that is where she gets her bumping style from?

I have watched a lot of both and I have no idea how you can compare their selling.

Arn is good, but I feel he may be one of the most over rated wrestlers of all time. He has some route spots that really bug me, because they are really stupid (jumping off the top rope into a boot while clearly not going for a move, working as a babyface in a tag match as a heel and having the face work the heel spots for comedy, for examples). Andre fucking rules, whether he's young and athletic, or old and slow but super smart. I take Andre and I take him easily. Hopefully, after Saturday's Watch Party, more people will think that as well.

@Cien Caras for trios matches can do all that. When a company is good, it's really some of the best week to week tv with trios matches building up stories to lead to a big match. I watched too much lucha in the last 10 years, where it's nothing but lazy almost nothing matches with rare exceptions. You are right though, there is a lot of value in trios match.

I agree show me a list of matches is the wrong way to go. I agree with you on that, and was what I was getting at. Would love to know what I was wrong about so I can improve.

He's not my #1, maybe #1 male. He's behind Hokuto and Nakano, for sure. So at most #3, probably lower. Casas that high, I don't know if I'd want people to watch a boring ass 30 minute match for 5 great minutes of Casas mixed in, to make his case. Those just add to his case, they aren't his case. His case is made when he's given the opportunity to produce and when given those chances, damn does he delivery (as you know). It sucks that lucha is a style and the way it's booked does not make for great weekly watching.

I have yet to see any trios match where Casas wasn't doing something good in. The matches are all really forgettable, so not sure what to even recommend. It's like saying this person is awesome in squash matches, you don't need to really recommend a squash match, just pick any at random. It will basically all tell the same story. The majority of lucha is not meant to produce anything worthwhile, unfortunately, doesn't mean there aren't good performers in it. The problem is Casas may only get a few minutes here and there in a whole match, he'll be awesome in those few minutes, but the match is almost nothing. To summarize, I don't think there are really recs out there, just pick some random shit and you'll see him be cool even if it's in very little bursts of a nothing boring match.

I think even if weekly trios nothing matches aren't great, doesn't mean they don't add to the case. Casas shows he is a smart and great worker in every one of those, even hohum matches. These two are fighting for the top male spot on my list, so hard to weight in too much here.

A lot of good points above, but I just wanted to add that Mayu is almost a lock for my list somewhere. She's an important part of my fandom, being (along with Hojo) a lynchpin for getting me into modern joshi. Being one of the best babyface workers of the last few decades is something I really appreciate. She's immediately someone you want to root for, no matter the situation. She has the matches, yes, that too. Her offensive can be damn impressive and her selling is unreal. Just watch her and you'll love her.

UPDATED!

Jetlag said: "One of the most unique juniors of the last 2 decades. An incredibly athletic wrestler, whose love for new generation era WWF and knack for technical moves makes him stand out. He can do it all, from Bret Hart worshipping technical wrestling, to garbage brawling, to highflying, to working hard hitting puro epics, to being an excellent Anderson bros style heel. Has some of the best broadways of the modern era under his belt, against a variety of unique opponents, and yet to disappoint in any setting. I think a deep dive of him is well worthwhile considering he has worked an incredible number of different places in the last 20 years." Matches: 2/3 Falls: GENTARO vs. Masamune, VKF 9/23/2008 GENTARO vs. Spark Aoki, Secret Base 1/10/2011 Tanomusaku Toba & MIKAMI vs. GENTARO & YOSHIYA (DDT 11/30/2001) Quote

Makai Club #1 said: "Mayu Iwatani is one of the modern Joshi wrestlers that can really hold a candle to some of the older names. What may hold her back is the lack of powerful or innovative offence that you'd get from an Aja Kong or Manami Toyota but her selling and bumping is at a high level. Her small frame and uncanny ability to get slammed on her neck and survive make her a terrific underdog who can garner crowd sympathy, who can turn that into heat for a big comeback at the end of the match. I'd almost compare her to Rey Mysterio in how perfect she is for that role. You can't imagine her as a heel because she is so rootable. Mayu has had plenty of great matches against a lot of different opponents ranging from Meiko Satomura, Takumi Iroha and the Io Shirai series, of course. Plus Mayu is a really good tag team wrestler as well as being a strong singles wrestler. While they are usually short term teams, Mayu had great success with Io Shirai in Thunder Rock, Arisa Hoshiki and Saki Kashima (who isn't very good). And if being able to make small card trios matches worth watching is your thing, Mayu is the one for that also. " Matches Recommended: Vs Io Shirai - Stardom Year End Climax 2016 22/12/2016 Vs Takumi Iroha 2020 (Both the 08/02/2020 & 18/10/2020 matches) Vs Momo Watanabe - Stardom True Fight 23/10/2018

NotJayTabb said: "It was highlighted in tonight's watch party that Pedro doesn't have a nomination, which is nuts when you consider we have a bunch of fun 80s Pedro performances, especially because Baron Mikel Scicluna is nominated, and he was never fun. I don't know how much footage there is of him in his prime, but his 80s stuff and his status as a former WWF champion suggests he's worth investigating. 80s Pedro is still great as a fired-up babyface, his comebacks are amazingly fun and his backbreaker gets huge height, look great. " Recs W/ Davey Boy Smith & Danny Spivey vs Beefcake, Valentine & Valiant (WWF Prime Time 16/6/86) Vs Barry O (WWF Prime Time 7/7/86) Vs The Iron Sheik (WWF Prime Time 23/6/86)

I'm not against watching that stuff and I will (i'm doing joshi chrono, so I will get to it). Thanks for the recs, I do appreciate it. However, covering someone's full prime is not taking top 10 of their career spread out over time. That's not a direct comparison, that's a whole different beast. I'm sorry but earlier, in the Petit Prince thread, you said there was 17 matches of their whole career left on tape. You are more than okay ranking them. Maybe you weren't clear, but your original post did not seem like hey there is great post prime to check out at all. Nobody really took it that way, maybe you have to be more clear in your posts if that was your intention? I don't want to derail the thread any further. Dump fucking rules and this is a disservice to her.

If someone has a full career where they absolutely rule and then retire and come out of retirement 15 years later. Should we care about that comeback? That's really the question posed and that could be a discussion. However, so many are just seeing Dump for the first time and would love for them to explore that prime first. You can just keep in your mind she wasn't good on the comeback 15 years after she retired.

These are all such amazing questions!! Thanks everyone. Some may have to go to episode two, time pending. I appreciate it and keep them coming.

His work making Darsow look like a bad ass killer and turning in one of the best tag teams of the 1980s is so fucking impressive. Just a master of ring psychology. Add that to being able to change gimmicks and styles around it (Ax and Superstar are nowhere near the same). I love Eadie. I hopefully can find a spot for him near the bottom, but we'll see.

thanks you all and keep them coming. I'll get to these on the podcast.

I don't know why we are talking about someone's comeback 5 years after their retirement, when their whole case is based on their prime. What a fucking prime it is too! She is the most evil heel in the history of wrestling. Her matches are not just matches, they are mythical special events that have to be seen to be believed. There is an aura in her matches that few can accomplish. She's not just stabby stabby either, there are many instances where she shoes she can really wrestle. However, she's such a presence is that even important? Watch any Dump match (during her initial career) they are special. She is special. Easy top 25 worker.

The Dump Matsumoto watch party starts at 12 noon, so in 50 minutes. This one will be special. Voice chat on the discord, but watch and text chat here: https://sync-tube.de/rooms/NvdKvl2jJ Playlist: 1. Dump & Bull Nakano vs. Itsuki Yamazaki & Noriyo Tateno 08/22/85 2. Dump vs. Yukari Omori 03/20/86 3. Dump vs. Chigusa Nagayo 04/05/86 4. Dump vs. Bull Nakano 05/26X/86 5. Dump vs. Itsuki Yamazaki 08/21/86 6. Dump & Bull Nakano vs. Chigusa Nagayo & Kazue Nagahori 08/23/86

I'll be recording episode 1 in a few weeks and plan to put this out monthly. I would like to spend a portion of the show answering questions. The questions can be GWE related or not, but I'll answer them. You can post them here.

Any shoot worker vs any non shoot worker means the non shoot worker wins for me. Put it against Negro Casas who is challenging for #1 on the list, then it's not even a second thought.

Thank you. I will grapple with if 17 matches is enough to rank someone. Appreciated.

I don't think it does.