Death From Above

Lance doesn't strike me as a dick, so much as just being the kind of person that actually answers a question with his honest opinion when someone asks. It's not like he's gone out of his way to troll the hell out of people over the years like, say, Shane Douglas. I'm not a fan of his though. Never have been, never will be.

It would be a real shame if the Japanese stuff hadn't been there in the old observers. A few interesting little tidbits have floated out when people post old Observers from time to time that would probably be just lost info without those.

My answer hasn't changed in a long time. Destroyer vs. Billy Robinson happened at some point(s) in the 1970's, but never in All Japan, places like New Zealand or something. As far as anyone knows, none of it ever made tape. But I can't imagine that not being pretty darn fun. Too bad it is probably on that long list of things just lost to the void. Also, the Dick Murdoch/Flair 60 minute draw from Mid South that Joel Watts claimed was the best match he'd ever seen, but he left the master film in his car trunk on a very hot day and the film melted, lost forever. Poo.

Theme music was an area that I always felt WCW suffered as time went on. The way they would mic their ring on Nitro sounded cooler than on Raw somehow, but in theme music they mostly sucked wind past a small handful (n.W.o. theme, Goldberg). I am not really a big nostalgia guy for the WWF/E's in house themes, but at least they all followed a formula that made the worker instantly identifiable. Song opens with either a quote or a sound effect specific to the worker, followed by a simple 12-bar thing you could identify. A lot of WCW stuff sounded exactly the same, and they never gave most of it enough volume to even tell it all apart. so many guys in that company just had "generic rock band thing" as an entrance. It was a weird area the WWF kicked their ass.

Nice to see them find more mic time for the Giselle character, calling out Brady's fellow stablemates for failing at the moment of truth. Amazing how often heels draw heat just for telling the truth.

I haven't really watched wrestling much in years. Hell last time I did regularly was the DVDVR Mid South project (good a way as any to go out, I suppose). Also: I like Japan. A list like this doesn't really reflect how much I enjoy a lot of the gimmickry around American wrestling, because I tend to like big Japanese matches better than big American ones out of context. But let's see what my failing wrestling memory comes up with. From main event on down: The 1996 Takada vs. Hashimoto IWGP TItle match. Not a long match, but super intense, and my favourite IWGP title match of them all. Had an amazing aura of being a title fight that most wrestling doesn't get to, and was one hell of a match to boot. Takada is a super-hit and miss worker for me, but this ruled. And it seems like a singles belt should be in the main event. 6/9/95 Kawada/Taue vs. Misawa/Kobashi. Probably the best match I've ever seen. Uncreative answer but you can't really go wrong with this. Abdullah the Butcher/The Sheik vs. Terry Funk/Dory Funk Jr. I guess I can't really nominate both the 1977 and 1979 Real World Tag League Finals, which is too bad because I *always* watch them together, and I still think they are probably my two favourite crazy brawls ever. I guess I'll take 1979 if I get one or the other since it's the finale. Also: crazy, crazy, crazy crowds. It's just the greatest atmosphere. Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair - The 1984 Meadowlands match. It was shorter than some of the follow ups in 1989 but it might be my favourite of them all. The only other one that is close for me is the 2 out of 3 falls match, and this is a show that would already push the limits for a lot of people for attention span. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu 6/5/89. Jumbo is my favourite wrestler ever, and this was probably right at the top of the list of his best matches. Tenryu is a guy that's always been super fun too. This was amazing, I'd probably rather rewatch it than a lot of the Four Corners matches from the 1990's at this point because this would still be somewhat fresher for me anyway. Plus it was better than all of that save for *maybe* the absolute top drawer stuff. Stan Hansen vs. Andre the Giant, New Japan. Hoenstly I like a few Stan matches better, mainly the Kobashi classic, but since I can't use workers twice... why not? This was a great "immovable object vs. Irresitable force" match, and Hansen is one of my 3 favorites ever, he has to be on the show. Good spectacle match to have on a dream show. I like it better than say any of the Hansen vs. Americans stuff in All Japan that I've seen, so this works. The 2/3 falls Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki match from Dream Rush was pretty mindblowing and I have a hard time leaving it off. Toyota is a worker you can criticize the hell out of, be right, but she still has an amazing match list. El Samurai vs. Jushin Liger, BOSJ 1992 final. A really fun battle that might be my favourite for either guy. Lots of action and a surprising amount of hate when there needed to be. This had just about everything. I've read the criticisms of it not aging well, and maybe I'd think that if I watched it again, but whatever. It filled a hole at the time. Would be a fun way to open a dream card. I was really tempted to throw in Baba vs. The Destroyer, but then you're starting to risk getting into running a Big Egg Universe show that goes on for 15 years. I don't know if I could even do a PPV length show using a dream match formula, I am too into the long epics. I realize this list above is very long, in terms of being a show. Does feel weird with no Vader match too because I mark out for Vader. And I really don't hate American wrestling. Honest. I miss WCW, and I like plenty of WWF/E but I don't know how much of it fits my individually favourite matches. This was kind of haphazard but that's what I've got off the top of my head. I should do a separate one just for WWF and WCW or something. If I do I will try and limit it to 500 words. (Edited to fix apostrophes changing to weird symbols when you copy/paste them to the forum from MS Word. And then edited again because I changed my mind on my joshi match.)

I thought the Uncensored match was basically changed on the fly. Flair starts bleeding inside of the first 2 minutes if I remember right, and they just pitched the stip and worked a cage match? Maybe it was just weird booking but that would be *really* weird. It wasn't awful but if you look at Flair's other major opponents, he has better matches against pretty much all of them than he does with Hogan.

Wrestlemania IX really sucked a lot. I remember when I first saw it a few years ago, you get that Hogan/Beefcake vs. Money Inc. match and Hogan does pretty much nothing in the match, playing Robert Gibson to Beefcake's Ricky Morton (okay, that felt dirty to even type), just spends the whole match standing around on the apron. But I knew he was going to face Yokozuna later so I thought "ok that makes sense, he has another match to go". Then he just comes out and squashes Yokozuna in like 5 seconds. So no, he was just being lazy. Starrcade 1997 was about as damaging as any PPV main event could be to a company, in the end. Especially when you look at what they did for follow up too. To me, it's more interesting than the Montreal screwjob, which has been turned inside out far more. I think it's also quite possible that Hogan fucking Sting cost WCW a lot more money than Vince fucking Bret ever did, considering that the WWF/E did just fine afterwards. Everything in WCW from 1998 on other than putting over Goldberg was generally pretty bad. (I don't think we can say it's his fault they gave it away on TV.) Halloween Havoc 1999 and it's associated build is just about as bad as it can possibly get. I can't think of a single good Hogan/Flair match. He might be Flair's all time worst big time opponent. Flair had a better match with Vince McMahon than any of his matches with Hogan.

I always thought Suburban Commando was good fun too, as far as b-cheese goes. I mean, Hulk Hogan punched out a mime. What's not to like? I've never seen No Holds Barred. To my shame. All the Hogan nonsense/stories that come out in the sheets really entertains me. I won't deny he's had periods that were terrible, but I've enjoyed a lot more Hogan matches than a lot of people might guess. The WWE produced Hulk Still Rules DVD was quite entertaining.

Not to derail this totally with FMW discussion, but for how long was Onita the booker? Was he still the guy running it when they got into the Hayabusa/Tanaka/Shinzaki vs. Team No Respect period in (I think) 96/97? Because that period was really, really fun in general before it eventually derailed and the company came apart at the seams. This kind of sums up how I feel about the American indy interpetation of Japanese wrestling of the 1990's and early 2000's in general. White kids working "strong style" where they just slap the shit out of each other and do head drops for no reason, and make no money. And it was always laughable from the beginning. It was inmates running the asylum and pandering to their own taste, instead of actually giving the average local fan a style they were interested in digesting. Of course, Japan as a whole sort of drove off the cliff there eventually, but that only adds to the "lemming see, lemming do, lemming no understand" feel of the whole American strong style thing.

Not at all on Choshu, not really arguing with you here. I would point out that Inoki (or Vince or anyone else) having massive negatives doesn't necessarily equate to them being less "important". Big mistakes can have just as significant an effect on the business as a brilliant move. Maybe more so. In that sense, at least even Inoki's failures have tended to be pretty honkin' grand failures. He just seems to be that kind of person.

Everyone has their black marks. Choshu certainly included. World Japan anyone?

Why has this guy always had so much heat anyway? He's not a legend of the ring or anything, but he always seemed fine to me.

Personally I much prefer Baba's product to Inoki's (with some brief exceptions) but in terms of who was the more important figure as a promoter yeah it's definitely Inoki. It would be really hard to overstate his overall importance to the Japanese and even the world scene. Although I kind of see them joined at the hip in a sense, and they were probably good for each other. Probably pushed each other on in their own way. Similarly to how for my money the WWE has fallen off since it no longer had anyone to challenge them and keep them needing to find new ways to keep the fans involved. Most wrestling promoters seem to need someone to measure themselves against or a bit of healthy competition to really get them going.

For me, a good Mr. Consistancy might be Jushin Thunder Liger. He's a guy where almost every time I watched him wrestle I felt like I knew I was going to get, at the least, a fun match. I haven't kept up with Japanese wrestling for years, but through all of the 1990's (and what I've seen of him pre-mask in the 1980's) and into the early 2000's I loved watching him a ton. Incredible career.

I haven't gone back and rewatched any of it in a long time, but I remember back when Nagata went on that long IWGP title run that was longer than Hashimoto's record (because Hashimoto was gone to Zero-1 so someone had to break his record of course) that I really felt by the end it did him at least as much harm as good. The fans were onto what they were doing and by the end had kind of turned on him being shoved down their throats a bit. That was my impression at the time anyway.

I don't think anyone who saw the Paul Ellerig Workout Videos from the Mid South 1980's set could ever wash them out of their mind. Kids are people too! Whack-a-do, whack-a-do! Ha ha ha.

If Tanaka is going in that's kind of a clear sign that there are just no real candidates left in male Japanese wrestling. And I really like the guy too. Still worlds better than Nakanishi, but neither is within 25 miles of a hall of fame case to me.

I really need to watch some non WWF/WCW Jimmy Hart at some point, because he always struck me as a totally useless buffoon there even when I was a kid. Having seen mostly just that, he never did anything for me at all. But the (very) little I've seen from Memphis was quite different and looked really promising.

The best promo guy in the company wins a decision. What a surprise.

I've always had a sneaking soft spot for the bad guys. Back in the days of like grade 3 when everyone is doing The Royal Rumble doing recess, kids would fight over being Hogan and I'd just call dibs on being The Million Dollar Man.

Honestly I started out to write something more complete than just the beginning and end, but that sucker would be too much even for me to do off the top of my head in one shot. :-) Lots of fun plots abound, plus I never got around to some of the roles of other guys in The Patriots stable, like Vince Wilfork as the long term veteran enforcer (A role he got from Rodney Harrison "I want you to have... MY SPOT"), and the new, big, meathead du jour getting a big push in Rob "The Hulk" Gronkowski, etc. I am not sure which Horseman Wes Welker should really be, though. Guy discarded by other company too soon, becomes great compliment point to superstar Brady. I wasn't watching the NFL religiously back in 2001 so I probably would have missed the good little Bledsoe sub-plot there, but that's a good add on. Football's always been the real pro wrestling anyway. As clearly evidenced by the number of football players in wrestling in the heyday.

So the NFL has booked themselves a rematch at Superbowlmania that not a lot of people saw coming even a few weeks ago, although the signs were there in hindsight if you look at it. Eli suddenly getting more help at the right time to build up the team after his individually strong season, and the story all year of "Is Brady so good that, as much as we hate him, he may be impossible to stop". It seems like they figured out that Rodgers and the Packers on the whole have gotten big enough that jobbing them out does no real harm, and instead they are feeding us a Brady/Eli REMATCH. This caught a lot of fans off guard but it seems to be a surprise that's working for them. I'm saying that regardless of what they do with the main event, it's been a clever and well written twist. If Brady wins he locks up being best heel of all time and if Eli wins again he grows into a guy that may not be seen as the every-night superstar of Brees, Rodgers, or Brady but will have the rep of "that guy who we could always put the belt back on and people will believe it". But anyway what I really want to talk about is the history of the Tom Brady build, and also the relationship he's had with his dastardly manager, Bill Belichick. The whole build of Brady is really interesting if you look back to the very start, the year 2000. Brady actually started out as a babyface which a lot of people have forgotten. He was a nice, if driven kid from a family of athletes, who grew up idolizing Joe Montana, one of the biggest babyface stars of all time. He had to scrap for his playing time in the developmental ranks of college, and was a good story when he even made it into Belichick's stable as a new boy taken with a late pick in the NFL draft, who was basically holding the bags of the veterans in the group. He was a driven young man, who wanted very much to be the big star, and he was a likeable enough young fellow. This was how he started, as a feel good story, as The Patriots made the unusual decision of carrying 4 QB's instead of the usual 3 on their roster, just to give this young man a job. "Hey 6th round pick made it to the NFL Universe, that's great. Good for you kid. You never know, maybe someday you'll have your own t-shirt if you work hard". Just as Brady was coming into the Patriots fold in 2000, our evil influence Bill Belichick was involved in a bizarre angle that left fans unsure what to make of him. He'd been working with a team called "The Jets" who had just promoted him to be their new ringside manager, when in a bizarre turn of events only one day later he turned in his resignation. This left both The Jets and the media of NFL Universe confused and unsure what to make of it all. Soon after he became the new ringside adviser to The Patriots. I see this as him, at that point, being in sort of a tweener position where at least at first we aren't supposed to be sure what to make of him. But he is now the new influence in the ear of our young, happy go lucky man, Tom Brady. Things were not instantly successful. 2000 was a bad year for The Patriots (I guess the bookers were still sorting out where they were going with these guys) as it would be the only year that The Patriots were omitted from the NFL's version of the Champion's Carnival known quaintly as "the playoffs". It wasn't a waste though as our young man Brady was able to watch and learn, and gain respect for the boys in the back, while Belichick was able to work on his skills as well. By the end of the year despite not having a major push, it was clear to the powers-that-be that there was the chance to build some real stars here. Maybe they had that magic combo. It couldn't hurt to try! So, 2001. Brady, our noble young lion, has impressed enough to work his way up to playing second fiddle to Patriots veteran Drew Bledsoe. But things did not start well as The Patriots lose both of their first two matches. Then they run an angle where Belichick decides Brady is their new chosen one, and they toss aside the veteran to allow the new young boy his chance for the third match. The first couple weeks for Brady were, in truth, uneventful white bread build we've seen before. He recorded a win and a loss in two acceptable but unspectacular efforts, under the watchful eye of his manager and trainer. But as the season wore along, Brady and Bill (still not clearly defined as heels) were built up well as he'd end up winning 11 of his 14 matches as "the man", winning the AFC East and securing a playoff birth for a team that had been 5-11 the year before. A happy story for everyone, right? What a fine young man Brady is, and that Belichick guy, maybe he's not so bad. He's just driven. And look at the results! That's what they wanted us to think, but the bookers had a big plan that came to fruition in the first playoff match The Patriots would play. It was a heel turn so well done, they talk about it to this day. The infamous "Tuck Rule Game"! Brady was facing one of the NFL's most well known franchises, the Oakland Raiders. They are of course most famous for Darth Vader wearing a super-duper version of one of their helmets in one of the great sponsorship coups of all time, but I digress. That's a different story altogether. As for the game itself. The young star Brady is struggling to finish the deal against the established franchise, under the watchful eye of Bill Belichick at ringside. Oakland were up 7-0 at the half, and then after three quarters looked in solid shape leading 13-3. Young star Brady was given a carrot by scoring a rushing touchdown of his own to make it 13-10 (strangely despite Brady's lack of general running skillz to pop the smart marks, he has always used the QB Sneak as an effective finishing move). With under 2 minutes to go, Brady was hit by Charles Woodson (himself a young star of the time who has grown into a potential NFL Universe Hall of Famer), and appeared to fumble the ball! That's it, thank you young lion Brady! You are pinned, 1-2-3! But wait! The referees are discussing what they've seen, and Bill Belichick, if you look close, could be seen nodding at them, smiling, giving them the thumbs up. And the referees have declared, indeed, it was not a fumble at all, but Brady's arm was moving forward! The "tuck rule", a rare finish that hasn't been pulled out much since (A real stroke of genius, Belichick and the referees conspiring to create a fake rule to confuse the opponent that thinks they have it won). The fans are confused, what is going on? Brady and the Pats finish the job on the now also confused Raiders, scoring a 1-2-3 pinfall, as Brady delivers the finishing blow to his confused opponent. The referee raises Brady's hand, Belichick gives him a hug, and then... pulls out his wad of cash, hands it to the referee, and shakes his hand. Who could also ever forget the infamous "You fans can stick it, brother" interview that followed? Or the fan reaction! How does Brady react, with disgust or disdain? No, but with a smile and a wave, letting everyone know his drive and ambition have won out over his desire to be loved. What matters is winning. By any means. He may be the new golden boy, but if he has to lie, cheat, and steal to get to the top, that's just what he is going to do. This is the Belichick way, and Brady has bought in. The broken, battered body of the Oakland Raiders has never really recovered since from the shock of the moment hitting like a thunderbolt. It was a glorious heel turn. They still talk about it today in a hush and a whisper, people say "I was there". The star of Brady, superheel, was born that day. The Patirots would get pushed all the way to the top that year, being crowned winner of the Champion's Carnival at Superbowl XXXVI, over one of the loveable good guys of the game, Kurt Warner, along the way cementing the place of the Brady/Belichick tandem as the new top dastardly duo of them all. Warner was a great foil to be the final hurdle that year, because he himself was a feel good story. He'd been languishing in the minor leagues for years, and was a late bloomer into being a star of NFL Universe, but unlike Brady he stayed on the path of good. It was a poignant moment to see the contrast of the pair, and Warner did a good job helping Brady construct a memorable final to secure his position as a new top heel. Warner was always a really solid babyface, I liked him a lot. We all know the story from there as this tandem has become the most feared, and reviled heel tandem of them all. Brady's gimmick as the ultra-driven supertalent who wants to win at all costs is well known, and it balances perfectly with Belichick, the evil genius always whispering him advice, driving him to go one step further, do one more dirty deed, who always seems to have another trick up his sleeve, willing to do it all, and is equally driven. They even brought in a blonde valet for Brady, for the extra heat, as men cannot help but envy Tom "The Chosen One" Brady, even if they hate him. They are a megastar combo, The Patriots perhaps the kings of heels. The choice to have him put over Eli Manning a few years ago caught a lot of people off guard, because Eli was still seen as a pretty inconsistent young worker then. It was probably a big gamble, but if you look at where it puts them now it looks like it has worked out well. Eli is now established as a "man of the moment" type. He won't dominate you every match, but he's proven himself to have courage and guts, and a willingness to face down any challenge no matter what. He is also one of the few guys seen as a legit threat to Brady, leaving fans uncertain about the result that will be forthcoming at Superbowlmania. Personally I can't wait for the match, and I hope you've enjoyed my little trip down memory lane about one of the great heel turns of all time.

Not specifically a house show but I do sort of regret not hitting a WWE show in Edmonton years ago one of the couple times they rolled through with Flair on the card, just because I never did see him live and honestly at this point it's beyond kidding myself into thinking that's really worthwhile. Not that TNA is rolling through central Alberta any time soon. But it would have been cool to mark out for Flair live, just one time.

There were a lot of people put off by the meanness of the top faces in that Austin/Rock period so it wasn't just you. Of course for every one of those that walked away it seemed like 5 new fans came in who now talk about it like it was a golden age, even though a lot of it was before The Rock actually got good and Austin was at probably his all time low as a worker, but that's an entirely separate issue.