Kronos

I think that's a nice profile. Nash does think a lot of himself. But here, he comes across more as super-confident than arrogant. And he's a nice compromise between those guys who worship rasslin, like Foley, and guys who hate it, like Warrior. And his idea of how to break into movies is interesting, for sure. It's gotta be tough for a guy his size to do much beyond variations of Bouncer and Tough Guy. But he was quite good in his smallish part in Magic Mike -- and actually the only good thing, beyond the tits, in the abysmal Dead or Alive. The guy's watchable, if he can get hooked up with decent scripts and directors. The description of the IWC stings a bit, but it's accurate.

sorry double post

Goldberg vs The Rock -- 4/27/03, Backlash I had this crazy idea this morning to watch the Goldberg 2003 PPV matches. To that end, I cue'd up 7 matches (including a RAW match with Michaels). This one was the first. And the last. I just don't see how I could take any more, especially when some of the later ones have HHH. I am already tapping out. This match may just as well be the greatest performance of The Rock's career. It's easily better than the carryjob DDP did at Havoc 1998 because in that match, Goldberg actually wrestled. In this one, Rock basically comes into the ring and dances around the hat-rack that is Goldberg for 15+ minutes. And the crowd loves it. If I went back and watched, I'll bet I would count 8 moves from Goldberg, all of which The Rock sells like death. He prances around, stooges, plays to the crowd -- it just might be the greatest single wrestler performance since Graham Chapman wrestled himself. The crowd is torn, too. Rock tries so hard to come across as an opponent-burying bitch-face in his prematch interview with Teri. By the end, he even cracks himself up, and the crowd has fallen in love with him all over again -- to the point that there are no Goldbeerrrrrrrrgggggg chants when Goldberg enters. (there are later, but that's when the crowd has calmed down from loving Rocky.) I have never seen anyone cover up a main event wrestler's limitations the way Rock does here. I don't know that Jericho, Michaels, Hunter, or Kane are up to the task. Unless you guys tell me those matches are must-see, I have to pass.

Jerry Lynn vs RVD -- ECW, Hardcore Heaven 1999 About 15 minutes into this match, and I started fast fowarding. It's the template for everything that was wrong in all the indy wrestling that followed. You have the ridiculous YourTurn/MyTurn spots, some of them laboriously set up. The worst was the Van Damminator over the guardrail. In the early minutes, you have a helluva lot of downtime. RVD will stop and listen to the chants for awhile, and Lynn just stands there and lets it happen. This is masturbation disguised as wrestling, no different than what Davey R does or what Dragon Gate do. That doesn't mean there aren't aspects that were fun. The crowd is insane, which makes everything more exciting. Some of the spots can be cool, I guess. And Jerry Lynn is better than this crap.

What I find most interesting about this one -- besides how fantastically gorgeous Fifi is -- is how they are basically setting up a feud with Vader and Flair. That sort of pushes Davey Boy to the side, doesn't it? He's having a ppv title match with Vader, and Vader is now concerned with Flair. It's an insult that diminishes the British Chihuahua as worthy competition. But of course, they did this all over the place on this episode of Worldwide. They're constantly talking about how the Blondes are going to be in the cage at Slamboree. And yet there are several tag title matches in between -- including one of this very episode.

So he stole that fellow's money to prove a point. And then he returned it once the internet exploded. Such a badass.

The matches are: 2. Chris Hero vs. CM Punk vs. Colt Cabana - IWA-MS 12/8/01 3. Chris Hero vs. Homicide - IWA-MS 8/1/03 4. Chris Hero vs. B-Boy - IWA-MS 11/20/03 5. Chris Hero vs. Samoa Joe - IWA-MS 5/29/04 6. Chris Hero vs. Alex Shelley - CZW 9/11/04 7. Chris Hero vs. Super Dragon - CZW 9/11/04 8. Chris Hero vs. Arik Cannon - IWA-MS 8/19/05 9. Chris Hero vs. Milano Collection AT - Chikara 10/21/05 10. Chris Hero vs. Dick Togo - IWA East Coast 4/5/06 11. Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli - wXw 5/4/07 12. Chris Hero vs. Equinox - Chikara 11/17/07 Worth paying a few extra bucks to get them? Some fairly solid names on the list, esp Togo.

Have you seen the match? Phil posted it on WKO. Did I miss something? I wouldn't know Quinn was remotely good from this match. But I will check out the others if he's considered excellent. I wouldn't be shocked to find that Raven dragged him down.

Greatest team ever. I would fly to the Chikara tapings to watch those three dudes as a team.

Oh, that was part of the original PPV broadcast? That works better, then. I genuinely thought it was a modern edit.

Was watching a 2009 indy match between Raven and some fellow named Preston Quinn. The match is awful. I have never cared for Raven's gimmick. The guy is obviously somewhat passionate about the industry, since he's been around for 20+ years. But the "I don't care about being here" gimmick is tiresome. Except in a very specific environment, like 1996 ECW, how could you ever root for a character that hates you? I admit to having enjoyed Jericho and JBL when they've done variations on the theme, but there's two differences: 1. JBL and Jericho hated the crowd, but their characters wanted to wrestle. Raven's gimmick has him not even wanting to be there. 2. JBL and Jericho have not used this gimmick for the bulk of their careers. It's an aesthetic judgment. I just don't like Raven and never have. It's the same reason I didn't like the Grunge guys, who seemed to have such contempt for their audiences and the music.

Summerslam 1988 It's on Classics on Demand, and I watched the first half last night (up through the Warrior title win). Rougeaus vs Bulldogs Awful. The Bulldogs are total dicks, esp for being Faces in the match. They don't ever allow the Rougeau boys to get any kind of shine. In fact, even when there is a rare control segment that leads to a Bulldog-in-Peril and a hot tag, I never really felt like the Rougeaus were truly in control. It's a shameful performance, but I guess it's not so unusual compared to what we have heard about Davey Boy and Dynamite. Bad News Brown vs Ken Patera I have already forgotten this one. Rick Rude vs JYD There's really only two things about this match that make it worth watching: 1. Rude's cartoony overselling. He was awful about that in his WWF days, but it made it fun here and helped to cover up some of Dog's limitations. Plus, he goes outside after several of those headbutts, and he puts his head on Heenan's shoulder. Heenan kind of hugs him and comforts him for a minute before sending him back into the ring. Awesome. 2. The reveal of Cheryl Roberts on Rude's tights. The Jake run-in was easily the most exciting part of the whole match. Powers of Pain vs The Bolsheviks Meh. Am I the only one who thinks Warlord looks a bit like Louis CK? Warrior vs Honkey Tonk Man Crowd loves it. I think it's a terrible performance even by UW standards. All he does is go into the ring and act a fool, and every once in awhile remembers he's supposed to be working a match. I like Warrior generally, but I don't like him here. Crowd does, though, and that's all that matters. At some point, there's a clip of Brutus getting injured on the previous Superstars. WWE literally put a big red X with the word "censored" over about 85% of the screen. I could barely tell what was happening, but they were obviously trying to cover up the blade job. It did look pretty intense for a TV taping. Also, we get an endless Brother Love and Hacksaw interview segment. Jesus, that was terrible. Love only has about four lines, and he repeats them over and over. And Duggan pretty much just makes silly faces and plays with his 2x4. Commentary is Gorilla and Superstar Graham. Billy starts off pretty badly, but as the show goes on I sometimes forget I am listening to him and think it's Dusty. Too bad he doesn't have Dusty's genius for saying bizarre things.

The real loser in all this is Kyle O. Kozina has been around for ages, and Davey is not as young as he used to be either. But I am pretty sure Kyle is a young guy just trying to make his name? Bad juju to have this kind of foolishness attached to yourself. I wonder if it ever goes away? Also, random: Was watching Summerslam 1988 last night, and laughing at how much Davey reminded me of Billington. Davey carries himself in the ring like a miniversion.

Wish you would -- those names are cracking me up.

Nah, I think the third ought to be someone tiny. Waltmann comes to mind.

Watched the 1992 Rumble match for the first time in awhile. A few random observations: 1. Nikolai Volkoff -- fat and old Nikolai-- springs over the ropes to get into the ring. It was beautiful. 2. At one point, Flair clears the ring and collapses to the mat for about 15 seconds. Then Piper enters, and he proceeds to kick Flair's ass all over town for two minutes. It's a terrific segment because it puts over Piper as a badass, which helps cement his IC belt from earlier in the show. And of course it helps tell the story of Flair overcoming tremendous odds. 3. Hogan is a dick. Even though the story was clearly about Flair, he immediately steals every bit of spotlight from the second he's in the ring. He clears a bunch of guys, and once Flair wins he takes over the ring and basically runs off Flair so he can start his ridiculous Sid feud. (that's probably the fault of the booking, but he doesn't help)

I agree with all you guys -- I wish RE were here to defend Davey. That'd be some intense amusement.

I am not sure they'll even be in professional wrestling for much longer, at this rate. They might as well hook up with a BJJ studio where they live and start working their way into grappling and MMA tourneys.

I have not seen enough from Dump, though she was certainly fun playing the less-interesting Aja Kong role. I will say that I can't think of anytime I ever watched Jimmy Valiant or JYD and didn't get bored in minutes. But give me a healthy, reasonably sober Jake over Angle everytime. Jake may not have thrown 1000 suplexes, but the man understands how to perform. Rasslin is a performance art, after all. He could talk better than almost anyone. He could work to the crowd, generating honest to god heat. He knew how to stooge and mix up the pace. When he would finally throw a DDT, it meant something, bygawd. Damn he's fun -- I think I should hit up DM and YT later today. Angle, on the other hand, is like a more skilled Davey Richards. He only knows one way to be -- superfast and superINTENSE. It works if everyone is working that format, such in as in late 2002. But to me, his best matches are with people who know better and can reign him in a bit. (Austin in 2001, for example, or Jarrett in 2009-11) He has no sense of proportion and very little ability to vary his style when he is in charge. I wonder how his work with Sting holds up? As has been mentioned, Cena has been able to carry people like Khali and a green Lashley to some good matches, while holding his own with others who he doesn't have to carry. Hell, his feud with mega-heel Batista a couple of Manias back just might be my favorite of his.

Great discussion. I don't have a lot to add, though I fully intend to watch some of the matches in question. I will say this (going by memory): Demolition showed up at one of the Chikara King of Trios in the last few years. They were old and fat, truly -- and they worked rings around the Chikara guys. They didn't waste any movements, probably because they didn't want to get gassed. Small praise to say prime WWF-era guys could outwork Chikara, I guess, even if I do enjoy a lot of Chikara's stuff when I am in the mood. But it's something that has not been mentioned in this thread.

The pic is rough, but there's a full December 1972 Knoxville show on youtube. Check out Lawler in the bottom left, with the greasy long hair and the beard. That's skeezy.

I just watched it. The ending is a mess. But the first 10 min or so are pure insane sprinty joy. Attitude Era crowds were amazing when they weren't being dickish. Like I mentioned in my Unforgiven 99 comments, Vince should be so lucky to have a crowd this WhiteHot today. Even Dean Malenko can't kill them, though he tries pretty damn hard.. There's not a lot of structure, unless you want to say DX and Friends work Heel in Peril for 7 or so minutes until Haitch cleans house. It's really a setup to further the Cactus Hunter feud going into NWO, but it's all wicked fun. I never get tired of watching Too Cool and Rikishi, and neither does this crowd.

Watching Best of RAW 1993 on 24/7. Highly entertaining. Was anyone's looks ever improved by growing a beard as much as Sean Waltmann? 123 Kid is a goofy looking bastard.

It's time for The Claw to make itself known again. Just saying.

Thanks for the link to that 2009 match. I quite enjoyed it. Wouldn't 99% of stolen gimmicks be self-aware? Or are you saying that he did it as a joke on Arn? Everything he borrowed, including calling himself The Enforcer, was a tease?