Kronos
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How do you self-identify as a wrestling fan?
Kronos replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in Megathread archive
God, I love her so very very much - esp on West Wing. I just got about 18 books from amazon, plus another 6 kindle purchases. I have probably 50 books I have acquired in the last year (books, kindle, and iBooks) that I have yet to read. I have 60+ movies purchased from iTunes, over half of which I have not watched since buying them. Plus half a dozen seasons of TV shows bought from iTunes. And China Beach seasons 1-4, which took forever to find, forever to torrent, forever to convert from avi to itunes, and I have now watched. . .season 1 and the opener of season 2. We're all addictive in our ways. In 2008 when I discovered CMax, I was spending hundreds of $$ a month on discs I couldn't afford and never watched (not counting ROH, Shimmer, and WWE purchases) -- and eventually sold. And that's not even taking into account all the terabytes from PWT I never watched and eventually deleted. And don't get me started on comics and graphic novels. I almost got sucked back into that hobby a month ago but forcibly stopped myself after only a few hundred bucks. Maybe the point is not that we are obsessive wrestling fans. Maybe the point is we are obsessive collecting geek types, who happen to number Rasslin as one of our vices? -
Seriously. They just wander around, looking confused half the time. Kwang was the guy who entered #2 with Scotty? Lord in heaven, was he ever a lame Kabuki/Muta wannabe. (ironic, since Kabuki himself was in the fucking rumble)
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Royal Rumble 1994 I accidentally rented it from netflix, when I meant to get '93. A few comments: 1. Tatanka was really, really over -- both in his match against BamBam and in his rumble appearance. I haven't seen much of the guy, but I quite enjoy him. He's got a great look, good energy, and decent if unspectacular workrate. 2. The crowd could care less about Backlund, and Vince doesn't hype him at all on commentary. 3. The Bret/Owen feud is good stuff. There's a nice recap vid before their tag match with the Quebecers. And Owen's actions during the show really pop the crowd. 4. I like Shawn Michaels, but I am not blind to his faults. His whole "face in peril but overcoming the odds" in the rumble matches always makes me crazy. 5. Diesel is booked like a monster here in the rumble match - he kicks all kinds of ass. I am not sure how the crowd responds. They're kind of quiet. (also, Crush is boring) 6. The Rumble match itself - even with the "shock" ending - is one of the more boring ones. 7. I will never ever say Yokozuna has a limited moveset ever again. He is 1000x times more interesting than Mabel. 8. Steiners are pretty over. Or maybe the crowd just likes making the dog noises when Rick enters. [this all just reminded me how much I love 1999->Present insane roid-monster crazy talker Scott.] That's enough for now. I confess to skipping the Taker/Yoko casket match because I am kind of Taker'd out this week. And I skipped Razor/IRS because I don't really like either guy in the ring.
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Jingus and RE described what I was trying to say better than I did. Whether intended or not- and based on the Jake 3:16 segment I am guessing not intended - the way Austin treated people became "right" (and Rock too, ultimately). That's what I didn't like. You guys are right, too, about Hogan acting the same way a lot of times. I think that's a case of his natural personality bleeding through, and it was certainly distasteful. I appreciate the analogies to House or Daredevil or Batman. But they fall short because wrestling doesn't have time to provide the kind of nuance they can get. House has conversations with Wilson and Cuddy and Cameron about what a jerk he is. He suffers loneliness. His "victims" respond with their hurts. The point is yes he wins while acting like a cool heel, but the audience has time to understand why he is flawed. Same with the comics guys - and when they aren't given depth, such as in a lot of the early Image books, then they become boring and even offensive. Wrestling doesn't have the time or inclination to explore those subtleties of character. It's a much more basic model of story designed for kids that needs to appeal to everyone. You should know right away what's good and what's bad. They shouldn't try to alter the foundation model because it won't work right. I like watching Punk treat everyone like crap because he's a very very good performer. But there's no question in my mind that he needs to be smacked by a good guy like Rey. (I don't want Punk or Piper or Heenan or Bret 1997 or JBL to always come out on top, no matter how much I enjoy their work -- that's not how the story model in wrestling works.) All that said, I know that it's the fans who ultimately decide. And they made Austin and Rock superstars. Vince had to run with it. So I am really just pissing in the wind.
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Zombifying an old thread because of a conversation I was having last night with my brother. He's not a wrestling fan, but he puts up with my constant rambling. He sat down with me and watched the Austin/Jake match that ended with the 3:16 promo. I was telling him the next day that the more I think about Austin, the less comfortable I am with the character. What I mean is that I realized I don't like cheering for an anti-hero who is an asshole. Oh, I will enjoy a full out heel, like a Jericho or a JBL. But Austin (and Rock and others) are supposed to be "cool" - they're mean and sarcastic and cruel, and we're supposed to cheer for them. As we were talking, I found myself saying that I don't want subtlety in storytelling. In my rasslin, I want clear bad guys and clear good guys. I want to happily boo villains like Punk while cheering for Rey to kick his ass. It doesn't mean I don't like Punk, and I certainly think he's one of the most talented in WWE right now. But if I were there live, I wouldn't cheer him.
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How do you self-identify as a wrestling fan?
Kronos replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in Megathread archive
Heh, out of all the comps i've made over the years my Hirota one was by far the biggest seller. People love the heck out of that girl I have never even heard of her! I fully intend to youtube her later this week, though. I am one of OJ's "Dabblers" -- I don't think he meant it critically, and I don't take it as an insult. This summer marks my 5th anniv watching wrestling. And if you count the time I discovered tape trading, youtube matches, PWT, puro, etc, then it's really only been 3 years. There's so much that's new to me that just about all I can do is pick and choose from what people suggest in MOTYC Nomination and "what are you watching" threads. My fandom was a compressed/speeded-up version of most people's. I went through my wannabe-smark phase in 2008-09, to my mind. But nowadays, I just like Rasslin of many flavors and eras. Sometimes I am critical and sometimes I am not. I just want to have a good time, and when it starts to feel like a job then I back off -- it's one of the reasons I don't participate in the DVDVR 80's polls or the smarkschoice WCW poll or even the movie polls on DVDVR, much as I would like to work through that all that footage. It becomes stressful and not fun. -
The crowd is so crazy for Jake's little comeback sequence late in the match, and they're utterly dead for Austin (even though he'd had that fantastic match with Mero). Austin's fascinating. He's important, and the crowd loved his conflict with Vince. But I'm a little shocked to find that the more and more of SCSA I watch, the more bored I become. I can get behind liking a bad guy and cheering his ability to make me hate him -- see JBL, Punk, Nash, or late Jericho as strong examples. But SCSA is an asshole, and he becomes the good guy. (Stunning Steve was a jerk, too, but we weren't supposed to cheer for him.) No strong opinions yet. But lately, between the Jake promo and his Mania stuff this weekend and other things I have watched, I am starting to sour on it all. Owen is excellent here and in the Mero match. Yet another reason his loss was tragic for the industry - he could have been a great commentator.
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Fantastic! This one reminds me if Badd/DDP in late 95, with Austin working a more old school rasslin style and Mero working his same near-lucha. They both come out of this one looking great. Is it possible Austin lost a tooth? He certainly seems to have hurt his back.
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I can only take so much RVD, and tonight I apparently can't take any. Skipping this match - pretty sure I've seen it before, anyway.
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This is when nwo bringing the show to a screeching halt was still cool and fresh. Hall has an idiotic look on his face, but Nash looks like a badass. Tony and Bobby sell the crisis beautifully, with Heenan wanting to goon home because he's afraid.
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Steiner comes and spouts some nonsense about watching backs-"But that's down the road."
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Nice quick little match. Not a lot to say, except EG never disappoints.
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IIRC, Bret writes about how there was this Wish kid backstage at some show, whose dream was to meet Warrior. UW, being the self-absorbed asshole he is (so says Bret), blew right past the kid -- taking no time at all to say hello or otherwise give him his wish for a short conversation.
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post edited to remove assholish comments sorry
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Can we at least agree Tony Atlas may have been one of the most offensively stereotypical? Some of his late 70s stuff I saw earlier today is shameful, the way he talks. It's like Pg-13 being so very very white trash.
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That must be what Styles means about being declared dead 2x. Fuckin world class. What a den of iniquity.
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Perhaps it's an attempt to escape from rumors of his being a jerk? Anyway, it's pretty silly. But it would have been worse if Warrior appeared at the end.
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I love Beulah way beyond reason. Terry gets such an awesome crowd response, and you can see he's feeding off the energy, getting more excited as the match goes on. I love seeing Raven get destroyed, as to me he's overrated and boring. I think all the angle stuff at the end doesn't really fit, good as some of it was. Seeing Gordy collapse in the ring makes me wonder if maybe they improvised in order to get the attn off him? Or maybe it was always planned, but they rushed into it when they saw his condition? What's the story on Gordy? He was working Japan just a few years before this, it seems.
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There's some great stuff here, and it's not just nearly naked pornstar Francine. Jericho works some lovely lucha spots. I like the first tombstone spot, that transitions from the gorilla press. It's so fast and appears to be dangerous as he'll, but you can't help but like it.
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"And this dadgum bull will be over!" This USWA stuff is such a discovery for me. It's wildly white trashy, but I love the angles and promos ( and sometimes good wrestling). Segments like this one are what make me smile about rasslin.
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Toyota vs Hokuto 1993 was the first joshi match I ever saw, so she was special to me for awhile. In the last year, as I have watched more joshi, I find her to be rushed and sloppy. This match is a great example. Like an Amazing Red or Jack Evans, she gets the crowd excited. But a little goes a long way in her style. If only she didn't make a habit of loooooong matches, we might not have seen her so exposed. I am a fairly new joshi fan (and puro, as Ditch can attest from my ignorance). I am eager to learn and see matches and discuss them. But apart from a few good apples like Flik, joshifans makes me crazy. It's got no traffic, and what discussion does occur is so often inane. Eh well. Sometimes, ironically, the best discussion can come from the insulated community of joshiwatchers on YouTube at doublemiz and a few others. And the little bit of talk at dvdvr's thread. This match had some good stuff. I liked the first fall. But I just don't dig on Toyota much anymore. I would much rather watch Aja, Bull, Hokuto, Jaguar, bison Kimura, Arsion Yoshida, Cattleprod Bitch Takako, Toshie Uematsu, Dump, Chigusa, Kudo, and a slew of others. Oddly, I do like Natsuki*Taiyo, who works a supersprint style. But I can't think of her in a 50 min match.
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Meanie and Stevie are eating it, so it's surely blue frosting. This is some insanity, and I kinda loved it. The best bits are D-Von saying, "Don't even say what I want you to say!" and Sandman's, "I'm running out of friends to drink with. Duck Murdoch, this beer's for you."
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