Bob Morris

Another thought: How much of the "Greg Gagne got an undeserved push because he was Verne's son" resulted in smarts carrying over that same mindset to any wrestler who happened to be the son of a famous wrestler, especially if the wrestler was a booker? While I understand the mindset to an extent with guys like Erik Watts and David Sammartino, I never got why it was carried over to Dustin Rhodes, who I thought did well for the most part, even if he lacked the charisma Dusty had.

In watching some of the AWA shows aired on ESPN Classic, I thought Greg Gagne was solid, but at the time, more wrestlers were coming up with bigger moves to finish off opponents. Between that and wrestlers with bigger physiques, Gagne didn't really stand out from the pack. It's worth noting, though, that as much as Verne protected Greg, he spent more time grooming other wrestlers to be the AWA heavyweight champion, even as several of them jumped ship to WWF. And one of those wrestlers, Curt Hennig, wasn't really that big in terms of size when he got his push. In fact, in his WWF run, it's worth noting how much smaller Curt was at the 1989 Royal Rumble than he was at Summer Slam about eight months later.

I think where many people take issue with the "20 seconds it took to cover him and he still got the pin" issue is that, when others hit finishers or signature moves and it took them many seconds before getting a cover, the opponent got the shoulder up in time. It's not something I rake HHH over the coals for, but had Booker got the shoulder up, then HHH later hit the Pedigree and slowly rolled over Booker and just fell over on top of him, it would have kept the point that HHH was still winded and still protected the Pedigree as the finisher, while not doing any harm to Booker.

I'm not certain Jericho being put with Ken Shamrock for his first feud was so much an attempt to bury Jericho as it was that they didn't really have anybody else for him to face at that point. That was about the point when the WWF seemed hell bent on trying to make HHH a main eventer when nothing was clicking, so every top guy was somehow tied to HHH at that point. Plus it was the time Vince Russo was still doing the booking and he seemed to be intent on recreating Jericho's WCW run and Shamrock was, in Russo's mind, the closest equivalent to Dean Malenko.

Actually, I'm thinking that comes from Scott Keith, and seems to stem from his love for the Hart Foundation more than anything else. Let's face it: If Strike Force wasn't over, then Rick Martel's sudden heel turn against Tito Santana wouldn't have worked, and that darn well did. The initial confrontations between Santana and Martel in that feud generated a lot of heat, and as evidenced by the SummerSlam match with Santana/Rockers vs. Martel/Rougeaus, the fans pop the loudest every time it looks like Santana is going to get his hands on Martel or rallies against him. In fact, the one flaw I find with that match is Santana played face in peril, when it should have been either Michaels or Jannetty, leading to a spot where Martel tags in, but Santana gets the hot tag and the place thereby comes unglued.

I think an important thing to keep in mind is that how well any wrestling personality is received depends on how they are booked. With X-Pac, it wasn't so much his character that made fans frustrated as it was the booking was designed so he never really got his comeuppance. And Jingus raises a valid point that the way Vickie was booked didn't really make it seem like it was the proper way to establish true comeuppance. Case in point: Why is Edge the one who gets to humiliate her on the way out? The idea there should be to give Edge heel heat, but all it did was get people to cheer him. If you are going to have some wrestler humiliate her for a send off, just have John Cena chant "na na na hey hey goodbye" and at least it's better execution. As far as jokes about someone being fat when they really aren't or other such attempts at comedy, it's not so much a case of making such a joke as it is delivering it in the proper context. I can remember some shows in which you would have kids make fat jokes about other kids who weren't really fat, but it was being done in the context of the type of jabs kids that age would make at each other in real life. And most of the WWE writers just don't understand the concept of proper context when doing most of their jokes. They just base it on whether they are amused or whether Vince is amused, not whether anyone else will be. Sek also raises a valid point about WWE's mindset. Somebody decides they want to leave and there is more than life to wrestling, so do whatever you can to cut that somebody down.

Given that Dave Meltzer hinted "more to come" in the item about Umaga leaving, you have to wonder who is on the chopping block. Although Kennedy's release was for more than just wellness issues, the fact he was one of those Signature Pharmacy guys (along with Umaga) makes you raise your eyebrow. If guys like William Regal, Charlie Hass and Shane Helms end up on the latest round of releases (with Helms, is he even still with the company?), then draw your own conclusions. Then again, Chris Masters is supposedly on his way back to WWE, so who knows.

That's probably how I would imagine plenty of wrestlers are these days. Given that they don't get any benefits such as health insurance, pension plans or other items that many people enjoy at their jobs, that's more of their own money they have to put aside for these things. Hence, they are likely more sensitive to taxes. Also, given that WWE treats wrestlers as independent contractors, the wrestlers are responsible for their own taxes. So yet another reason for wrestlers to be leery of taxation, as it's more money they have to set aside to eventually pay Uncle Sam when they'd likely rather just spend money as they please.

I guess this can be the Cornette commentary thread, since he's doing these on a more regular basis on his website. His latest is a tangent on hardcore wrestling.

The problem with Urkel and why people started turning on him, I would argue, is that he became the equivalent of Fonz on Happy Days. He was a character that had his charm and worked well as somebody to bounce lines off, and on occassion would be fine as the center of attention, but you couldn't build the show solely around him. Of course, with Fonz, it could be argued he needed to be the main guy after Ron Howard left Happy Days, thus Richie Cunningham was out of the picture. But if you were to look at Happy Days episodes, the "Fonz-centric" era tends to be the low point of the series. It wasn't always the case with FM when Urkel got a larger role... there were the episodes in which Urkel worked as the central character, given the plot line, but other times it didn't work. But in earlier episodes where Urkel wasn't always the center of attention, I would say that was when FM had its best work. Wrestling is somewhat similar in that standpoint. If anybody qualifies as the equivalent of Fonz and Urkel in pro wrestling, it's Hacksaw Jim Duggan: Loved in a secondary role, but if made the center of attention too much, it doesn't work as well.

I know a lot of this talk about "would Owen have gotten a top title run" assumes he planned on staying in the wrestling business, but I've always suspected Owen was going to give notice to Vince when his deal expired and get out of wrestling. Owen seemed to be one of the few people in the wrestling business who had the foresight to save some money. It's possible he could have simply left the business for a couple of years, then come back later on a short-term deal so he can accumulate more savings, similar to what Chris Jericho seems to be doing. TNA may very well have snagged Owen, provided he was interested in wrestling for them. I could definitely see Owen willing to work for a company where he gets a light schedule, would no doubt have been pushed as a top guy yet get plenty of time to spend with his family.

I tend to side with Kevin on this one. I never really saw WWF intent on pushing Owen as the top guy, even for the short term. The company has a greater interest in pushing the most charismatic guys (although with HHH, his character in 1999 never caught on until the Steph heel turn) and while Owen had charisma, he didn't have the amount the likes of Austin, Jericho, Rock and Foley did. Plus, there was always the talk from Bret that Owen was just planning to ride out the remainder of his contract because he wanted to spend time with his family. I doubt WWF would ever get behind somebody who was just there to finish his obligations and then move on to the next chapter in his life.

It's pretty much the same for me. The people I consider friends in my everyday life aren't really into pro wrestling. I don't consider pro wrestling a "highly regarded" hobby of mine, but I do enjoy it and I do find the background behind it to be interesting. The more I learn about the business, the more I appreciate it, even when what I learn about the business is the stuff that doesn't paint a good picture. Pro wrestling has always seemed to me to be something that lots of people watch, yet when people are around those who either aren't pro wrestling fans, or who they don't know if they like it, they don't really talk about it. It's funny, because you look at pro wrestling through the years and it tends to draw high ratings and large crowds when a strong product is delivered, but it's still somehow taboo to admit you are a fan unless it makes for a cool T-shirt. I don't really consider any form of entertainment to be "highly regarded" though... as in, not something that I would put on a pedestal and act as if it's the be all, end all of what entertainment should be. Most of what I see in any form of entertainment is not something I would call a "standard bearer," even those that I particularly enjoy.

To be fair, I thought Keith's earlier stuff with Coliseum Video rants were fine because his poking fun at wrestlers and matches was actually funny. His latter stuff was where he started going overboard. And I sure seem to recall a lot of people referring to, for example, Junkyard Dog as "Junkfood Dog." In fact, I recall Dave Meltzer using that name at one point.

Kennedy definitely goes under "how art the mighty have fallen."

The part I remember being funny is how some people on the 'net were saying that, between Road Dogg and Billy Gunn, that Billy was the one who looked more like he could be the "breakout singles star." I guess Russo bought into it as well.

The thing that bothers me is this is one of those times in which Vince is in the right, yet he still turns into "Vince being Vince" with this supposed deal of doing an on-camera angle to rub the fact he's right in the face of Kroenke and company. It's a reason why, even when Vince is correct about something, it's sometimes hard to sympathize with him because he acts so arrogant about it.

In watching Smackdown last week (first time I tuned into that show in years), it looks like the crowd cared about Melina, and about Gail Kim to some extent. Both share a similar trait in that they have charisma, which is what Trish, Lita and Victoria had and what Mickie has as well. The Knockouts got crowd's attentions because they were into Awesome Kong, ODB, Roxxi, Gail Kim, and then got into Angelina Love and Velvet Sky when they turned heel. Of course, Kim and Roxxi are both gone, so that took away two of their most charismatic wrestlers. What it often comes down to is that charismatic wrestlers can find ways to make fans care about a match, particularly if the buildup to it is strong. Wrestlers who aren't as strong in the charisma department need to find other ways to pull the fans into the match.

The silly part about Vince's comments is that the Nuggets owner could easily maintain he believed his team would get the No. 1 seed throughout the playoffs and thus there wouldn't have been an issue.

Count me in as another one who would like to see those 10 count spots make a comeback. Who cares if they don't look "real," it's all about giving the fans a spot to pop for along the way. And I also have no issues with the five knuckle shuffle in the Cena matches I have watched. It's one thing to say it shouldn't be a finisher, but every wrestler needs to have at least one move that truly gets the crowd to pop. It's also why I have no problem with Undertaker doing the goozle and holding it for a few seconds before doing the chokeslam. Let the fans pop in anticipation for the move rather than doing it immediately.

It's worth noting that some people who watch daytime soap operas actually think of the actors by the names of the characters they portray, to the point these fans, when seeing the actors outside of the studio, start referring to the actors by their characters' name and even start referring to their on-screen actions as if that's how they are in real life. I think it's the same thing with some wrestling fans. They get so wrapped up in what they see that, even if they know it's just an act, they still think of the wrestler's character first and refer to the wrestler that way, even if in real life the wrestler doesn't act the same way as his character.

This will be fun. Damn it I rushed over here to post that Scott Keith burn What's really funny is that, while Keith has his faults, he knows darn well that the Vince spin of "Ted Turner tried to put me out of business ever since I refused an offer to buy me out" is a bunch of bull and I have no doubt in my mind that's the story that will be told throughout the DVD.

There's TNA still trying to get Bobby Lashley on board, and he never drew in WWE nor ever appeared during the 8-9 ratings heyday. But I'm certain TNA and Spike will keep making the push to get him involved in some capacity. I suspect Tazz _is_ going to wrestle at some point because there's no purpose in him coming on board if he isn't, just as people should have seen Foley's role as a wrestler coming. As for Jeff Hardy, he will NEVER get the deal Shawn and Taker have because he has no evidence to show in WWE's eyes that he "drew" like they did, plus his wellness policy violations will cause him to lose some leverage with WWE, even if getting such a deal might mean he stays clean. As for other talent, as long as there's wrestlers who are looking for work, they'll consider TNA, and as long as TNA thinks they have some value, they'll bring them on board. I won't argue that TNA's booking is frustrating and the company hasn't done a good job of developing new talent, but as long as Dixie Carter wants to keep the cash flowing and she and Jeff Jarrett maintain a good relationship with Spike/Viacom, TNA will likely continue to operate. If TNA's relationship with Viacom sours, that's a likely nail in the coffin, and a definite nail in the coffin is if Panda Energy pulls the money away and that's only likely to happen if Carter loses her say.

As long as there are veteran wrestlers who want to work a lighter schedule than WWE, younger wrestlers who aren't interested in taking WWE developmental deals (although, granted, there aren't many in that group) and wrestlers who WWE suddenly declares "we don't have anything for you to do" and thus are let go, TNA will always find a talent pool of available wrestlers. And Spike/Viacom seems more interested in a wrestling company that is willing to work with the network, rather than insist the network cater to its every demand. If Carter, Jarrett and others start getting bossy with Viacom, that's when they are most likey to lose that TV deal. We already have Taz on his way to TNA and I'm certain Jeff Hardy will end up there again if he doesn't re-sign with WWE. Also, I fully expect Christian returned to WWE because it was an opportunity to come back "fresh and revived" and make some more money again. It would not surprise me to see him jump back to TNA, or possibly go to ROH, when his new WWE deal expires if he believes he's saved enough money.

Is this the match? There is an awesome "playing possum" spot early on that I don't think I've ever seen out of Bret before. It's the right match, but it's clipped there. The full version is about 3-4 min longer. I've always liked that match and was always surprised it doesn't get talked about more. Thanks to those who pulled that one up. That match has held up pretty well.