El-P

That's actually kinda cute, bubba But OH MY GOD I did not expect that reaction, considering the crowd was duel chanting for most of the match, before it reached the point they got crazy for Statlander, and for good reasons. Yes, those two last matches are the best Soho matches since she arrived. But Statlander was the standout here, big time, and by the end the crowd was so ready for her to win. Soho getting the pin got a negative pop, with people at ringside going "WTF happened ?". And then as she's cutting a promo on Britt, she gets BOOED OUT OF THE BUILDING, to the point she had to acknowledge it. It only made her promo on Britt even more impossible (it had no point anyway apart from generic "I need to win this tournament!", which Statlander already made fun of before the match). I don't get this booking, especially since we already had this match a few months before and it did not set the world on fire at all. And although Britt is a heel, no way people pop for Soho if she goes over Baker, especially not at this point when she is seemingly losing the crowd. And Baker beating Soho is been there done that. I've said it since the beginning that Soho going to the finals against Baker was a mistake, but damn I did not expect *this*. The good thing is that Statlander seems to have found herself, she has looked much better than she did before. Baker coming out with a Jack Sparrow T-shirt was certainly a choice... Young Bucks cosplaying the Hardies was typical Bucks greatness. Cutler as "Amy Dumas" was a sight to see. Not to mention *that* cameo, that was pretty unexpected (well, he has appeared on the show not long ago, in a very different context). So, we actually are getting a 6 person mixed tag, as it's Sammy & Kazarian (who was a babyface two weeks ago) & Tay vs Page & Scorp & PVZ. Well, at least it should be fun, but good luck to get any heat before Tay & PVZ hook it up. And we also get Darby vs KOR, because... Not complaining about the match, because it should be excellent at worst, but... talk about thrown at the last minute. And no FTR, not even against the United Empire (which I guess is gonna be at Forbidden Door). That's 11 matches. Plus the pre-show one. That's a lot. That's too much. Afraid some may not get the time they deserve because of it.

As I've reached late 2013 TNA, the true comparison with MJF is actually.... EC3. Very striking how their gimmicks are similar, and how EC3 was also very efficient at working angles and be an insufferable rich boy douchebag.

So, if WON is right, Sasha & Naomi's suspension is without pay. Basically, they are suspended without pay, their contract are freezed, their merchandizing has been pulled off. Independent contractors and all. This is getting quite transparent now. Way to terrorize your employees too, as it's obviously a message sent all across the board. Can't Sasha call the actor's guild or something ?

So, the crowd chanted "This is stupid" at the latest Joe Gacy angle, uh ? Heavy vibes of old TNA and Abyss angles in this... Joe Gacy is seemingly the new Bray Wyatt, only there's nothing cool nor interesting about him like there was with the Wyatt Family at first. He jumped straight into "go away heat" Bray Wyatt mode apparently.

If I were to rate the AEW World title reign thus far, it would go like this : Omega > Jericho > Page > Mox So yep, the heel reigns have been better in term of engagement to me. Omega being way ahead of everyone else, because he had everything, the great arc, the great TV matches, the great PPV matches, the great promos with Callis, the awesome presentation. Jericho was the most important to make the title mean something from the get go, and when he finally got beat and passed it away that was also key in making the title, and Jericho delivered his best work in the company, and his best in years at this time. Page has the great matches. Less in term of great feuds but still some really strong promos in the mix, but was a bit overshadowed by the MJF feuds at the same time. Mox was the second link in the chain to make the title mean something, and had the image of the guy who left WWE and told them to fuck off. I don't remember very clearly the best matches tbh, the most striking moment was the loss to Omega with the awesome Callis turn and "See you on IMPACT wrestling !" promo. The thing is, people have been so ingrained with WWE mentality for so long that it's kinda hard to re-invent what the ace of an alternative promotion should be. They have done a great job making each title reigns important and also distinct thus far. You can line up up-coming reigns too (CM Punk, probably MJF at one point, Danielson maybe but that's not a given considering what his goals are, and then eventually I would think Darby will get there. Adam Cole maybe at one point, who knows. Keith Lee is too early to tell, but he has the potential too. Oh, and that Wardlow fellow, although that one can wait... no really, no urge... really), not to mention the fact someone at some point will end up being a two time champ that would actually be something in itself (as opposed to being a 17 times champ like in WWE). Page obviously is gonna that guy too. In three years, we can remember and identify very clearly each reign. Only four of them. That's a good thing, and I hope they keep on this path. The TNT title was pretty great. And then Sammy got the belt. And lost it. And got it back. And lost it... I wouldn't say the title is damaged (way too early, bumps in the road happen), but the idea of it not being a secondary title is really not working anymore. Not since Miro had it. The TBS belt around Jade on the other hand, feels like the TV belt in ECW when Shane Douglas had it : equal to the world title. Question is, whatever happens when she eventually loses it.

Agreed. The thing with Hangman's booking, is that they had a super strong arc leading to Hangman winning the title from Omega, it was a long and deep storyline that had roots in the long term relationships between him, Omega & the Bucks. After it was done, well.... things got kinda blurry in term of where this was going toward. The Adam Cole storyline to me was actually the best, because it had the most legs. Danielson was basically a dream match. CM Punk is basically a dream match. But yeah, with MJF taking so much place lately with his last two feuds, as a character, Page has not came off like the most important guy in the company. Great reign in-ring though, piling on great matches after great matches.

The thing is, the company is three years old. It's way past the honeymoon period. After 18 years without an alternative as a mainstream promotion, there it is, it exists. It's not a "what if", it's not a "let's see what happens now", it exists and is three years old. The excitement of the beginning is over. To me the best time has been 2021. Since the beginning of 2022, week-to-week booking has been pretty uneven, but they have so much talent now, too many actually, that the question of "Wow, what if X showed up in AEW?" has reached the point of the answer being "Well, they already have too much talent.". The goofiest part of the promotion, which was still deeply rooted in its indies base at first, is obviously less present now. A lot of people on the roster have already gone through the WWE machine (and not being used well there for the most part), a lot. Cody has gone back to WWE too, which, although it really doesn't make much difference at all on the shows, still makes you feel that, well, that super exciting period of the beginnings is over. The promotion is there, it exists. And it's another pro-wrestling promotion. Don't get me wrong, I do still love AEW and I have a blast watching it, but it's obviously not exactly the same as it was at first. United Empire, uh ? When Will Ospreay may not be ready to come back for the PPV after a severe kidney infection ? Yeah that's.... not the NJPW guys have would have showing up. Great O'Khan actually is getting much better, but the gimmick is what it is (lame). He saved a little girl from abduction too, so he's a IRL babyface. Joe on the other hand. Nobody saw that one coming apparently. One year ago : and now it's like the Joe of old, or an older version of the Joe of old. Quite the great surprise indeed.

When did I say big matches did not exist before PPV ? As far as big matches on house shows, sorry, but I'm pretty sure none of them are what was referred to as "matches that *everybody* can cite off the cuff", which is what I'm talking about. Mania 1 not being a PPV is cute as hell in term of ridiculous nitpicking. Is that even debatable that John Cena and Roman Reigns (by everyone I meant every top guy, which is why I detailed it into Cena and Reigns in the *very next sentence*, but I guess my fault for not being specific enough from the very first sentence), to take two guys who have occupied pretty much the same social spot as Hogan in the WWE (long tenure on top as super dominant figures, Austin and Rock were a bit different in term of booking), have way, WAY more big matches that have been presented to the audience on TV and PPV than Hogan had during his peak (that's discounting most of his WCW stuff, as again I don't think any of them apart from a few exceptions were the ones being referred too, Hogan vs Rock being another exception in term of belonging in a later context when things already got different, that's also after Hogan's peak) ? I mean, come on now. There have been competitive main events on weekly TV for almost 25 years now + 12 PPV a year. Hogan had a token of big PPV matches and a few Saturday Nights Main Event (more or less, because Mania 1 wasn't a PPV, although I doubt anyone would push the Mania main event as a great Hogan match anyway). The business model was different then and it absolutely plays a part in how matches were perceived. It's ridiculous to even argue against the fact a fan who's seen about , say 15 big Hogan matches during his teenage years won't remind them better than someone who has seen, I dunno, a hundred John Cena matches during the same time span. It is, and I did not even talk about their supposed quality or lack thereof, as it wasn't even a point I was making. What a waste of time, really, to have to explain that Hogan had less big matches than Cena or Reigns, which obviously plays a part in how they are remembered, especially by people who have seen it when their brain was younger. Oh well... Anyway, this is totally off-topic and probably should be moved to the Hogan thread. Isn't Hogan cancelled anyway at this point ?

I think this whole ROH thingy is a totally an elaborate joke on Brian Cage. The guy thought he was actually gonna get featured after all. I dunno. I'm already half-way burned out. Don't need more weekly TV in my regime honestly. If that happened, TK would HAVE TO delegate, big time.

Yep, the Turning Point TV special (as this was not a PPV anymore, just an IMPACT show billed as a special edition). BTW, gotta say how ridiculous it is when TNA is actually doing a better job than WWE is term of following-up the copycat Summer of Punk angle with AJ Styles, as after he won the title and quit, they show stuff on TV paid by "Friends of AJ" from him defending the title in the UK, in AAA and in AJPW. Of course AJ would leave anyway, but those vignettes is already much better than anything WWE did with Punk. Also, Samuel Shaw as a creepy stalker was actually pretty good. Because it was creepy. And Christy Hemme back then was just so ridiculously *RESPECTFULLY*. Fuck me. Rockstar Spud. Yeah, ya can feel this is an entire new TNA that's unveiling before your eyes... Gotta say, at least it's not boring like Brucie's was. I take cringe over boring any day.

Random appearances on TNA : Peter Avalon as a scrawny jabronie killed by ECIII. I did not even recognize him before a backstage segment ! Crazy. Candice LaRae doing a job for Gail Kim, in the same show as the aforementioned Avalon segment.

Well, your first point, well, we can agree to disagree that he was a great worker, ok ? "Reality" has nothing to do with this. Your second point, well, are you gonna argue that there was not a dozen PPV main events and a shitload of important TV matches back then ? There were 4 PPV from 1988 and on. Sure, there was those Saturday Nights Main Events shows dating back from 85, but I doubt most of Hogan's most remembered and top matches (those the "vast majority of people can cite off the cuff") happened during those TV shows, which still were mostly TV commercials for house shows. Are we gonna argue that Hulk Hogan has had as much "big matches" as pretty much everyone past the Raw/Nitro era ? Really want to compare the numbers of "big matches" Hogan had compared to a John Cena or a Roman Reigns ? Talking about letting reality in the way really is a pretty bad argument here, if I may say so... The reasons why people remember Hogan's matches so much is the one I mentioned before, and the other one is that most people still talking about it were kids/teenagers when it happened, therefore they remember much more vividly whatever happened during this period that anything past their 20's. Fuck I remember Mike Sharpe vs SD Jones matches from WWF Superstars from 90, and it's not because they were any good. That's not something to be ignored, although of course everyone want to ignore it because it plays into "their favors", as in the favors of their own experience. I know for a fact that the French WWE audience that exists today considers 00's WWE as the golden age, and probably remembers WAY more about it than the average current US WWE fan, all because of the context (this is when WWE got hot on TV, mostly thanks to the announcing team of Agius and Chereau). And they probably can quote shitloads of Cena, Orton and Edge matches too by heart. But if the social spots of the workers, context of productions of matches, conditions of receptions and perceptions are to be ignored, well, whatever. Pro-wrestling doesn't happen in a vacuum and not everything is equivalent. To me those elements being ignored is what clouds the judgement, always in favors of mostly dominant figures. And don't get me started on "charisma", which is such a tricky concept to begin with. But anyway, this discussion has nothing to do with poor Matt Sydal. Nor with Hogan as a worker either actually (like I said, pretty good). So I guess sorry for going off-topic. If anyone wanna pimp some Matt Sydal, please do. I doubt he has a shot at my list, but then again.

I don't get why they booked Baker vs Storm as the semi final, as it had finals written all over it and much bigger than Britt vs Soho which has happened already. Soho isn't that hot recently and she isn't that good either. Storm is the one to push as the babyface star, she's young but already way experienced and easily one of the best worker in the division. So either Storm beats Baker as Jaimie Hayter fucks it up for the dentist and we finally get that Baker vs Hayter match that was teased months ago (again, continuity anyone ?), either Britt wins thanks to Hayter fucking things up for Storm as I can't get enough of these two hooking up. And then later we can build to Baker vs Storm. Well, I guess it's not that bad if they do either of the two, really. BTW, whatever happened to Penelope Ford ? She injured of what ? She had that awesome hardcore match with the Bunny and seemingly vanished. And where is Leila Hirsch ? Show should be excellent (doh) and yeah, the world really sucks.

Well, that is a fact, Billy Kidman' SSP *always* looked totally out of control and haphazard.

In truth, the vast majority of people can cite his top matches because he was the top star of the top promotion during a time where there was about 4 big matches a year. Whatever one might think of Hogan as a worker (I think he's on average pretty good, sometimes worst, sometime better), let's not confuse his abilities and the quality of his in-ring work with his excessively dominant social spot on the pro-wrestling landscape in a specific context where "good wrestling" as it was *already* understood back then (Savage, Steamboat, Santana, the workrate guys of the days) meant jackshit compared to 30 years later in term of acquiring such a dominant spot (right now, even in WWE, there's an expected level of what is perceived as "very good in-ring worker" to main event Mania, I'm not the biggest Roman Reigns fan but let's be real, he's miles above Hogan as a worker, so was John Cena).

Because people who are only good at making money are usually sociopathic abusive parasites with no actual understanding of the world. Malenko doesn't look great either in this anecdote.

THIS. A thousand times. I could elaborate endlessly on this point, but really that sums it up in a very amusing (to me) and on the spot way.

Omega leaving was a rather big hit. It's also one reason why Meij was cut, because he was seen as the guy was let Omega leave. When you add the fact he didn't understand what AEW could be and was all about maintaining his relationship with ROH (and CMLL !)... Yikes. A lil wee bit of lack of vision there... I also remember people when AEW was formed going like "Omega meant nothing for NJPW, there's no proof he was a draw for them, they do just as good since he left." But anyway. Just blame Dick Togo. He's the one behind the EVIL push.

Terry Funk would be so proud. In a way.

Miz is not capable of much, and what he's capable of doesn't look very good anyway. It would be interesting (somewhat) to see if his so called "promo ability" would translate outside of WWE, when you're not fed awful WWE verbiage. Maybe he could ad-lib and talk well. Maybe he would come off totally empty and fake (which he already does in WWE btw, but it suits his character there I guess).

The one BIG mistake as far as this PPV goes, is nothing for FTR. Like, really ? They are the most over they've even been, they come off that incredible match against the Briscoes followed by beating the Young Bucks on TV, and... nothing on the PPV ? That's quite a big booking flub, until they get a last minute match after this week, but the card seems full already and a three day "build" is not exactly what you'd want for your most over tag team in the company. Yep, that one I don't get at all, lack of focus really shows here. No team is the three-way is as over as FTR (maybe Keith Lee is ?). Jake Hager is on the PPV by sheer force of being attached to Jericho. Ditto 2.0 (who are fun and all, but....). Ruby Soho, who's pretty cold, is gonna be on the final of the Owen tournament. Fuck, can't they get FTR vs reDragons somewhere quickly ?

One reason (not the only one) the bow and arrow was completely botched is that Miz can't bend worth a shit. Many physical and athletic elements are taken for granted or simply ignored (I blame the "lol mOvEZ" people) but guess what, everything that can help matters. In the many things he can't do well, bending is one of them. He's stiff as hell there. It's also difficult to put it on bigger guys, and I do think Cody did flubbed it before anyway. That being said, what followed is pathetic, it's WWE Diva circa 2005 level of incompetence. The guy has been wrestling for 15 years and looks worse than 6 years old rookies here. Sure, he had some good matches with Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins. Yeah, no shit he had. I could probably have a watchable match with them too. Sure, he's fun when he's interacting with his wife, but working with your super hot wife who also happens to have a great personality will do that to ya. As far as Cody goes, he had it easy thus far working with Seth, who's a workhorse no matter what some people may think. Working with the Miz is not exactly the same as Andrade, Sammy, Darby or big brother, uh ? BTW, saw a pic of Becky. She needs to do the Gangrel entrance now.

I FUCKING WISH !!!! Mia Yim seems elated to be over there. Her point : "It's nice to feel like I'm respected as a human." The sad truth is that Sasha Banks will probably come back eventually as damaged goods. But man, I'd LOVE to see her elsewhere.

Blame Dick Togo.

The same. Before Rumble 99, which killed the WWF fan in me, that Deadly Games PPV is the first one I recall being super disappointed in an entire card. And although at first, when the final swerve, bro, happened, I kinda felt it was brillant, but then I thought about how I did not enjoy the PPV at all, so... So, that's agreeing twice. Plus, I don't think you'd argue much if I said the Briscoes vs FTR is pretty much the most serious MOTYC thus far. That's agreeing a lot in 5 months. BTW, speaking of Russo booking tournaments, show n°2 of TNA in late 2013 when Russo officially got back on the payroll. Heel Dixie (who's hilariously bad) takes the title away from AJ Styles and has a great way to crown a new champ. I was like "she's gonna say a tournament". And she said "an 8 men tournament !". I died. Russo WAS BACK.