El-P

With the Survivor Series being basically ignored by WWE, have they reached the point where, in their current business model, the only things that matter and are gonna get focused on are basically WrestleMania (and by extension and to some extents Royal Rumble) and the Saudi shows ? Survivor Series was quickly the lesser of the Big Four, but it was still historically a very important PPV, that has only gotten ridiculed by the awful brand vs brand supremacy booking in the last decade or so. This year has to be the absolute nadir in term of building to one of their historical Big Four though. I guess it doesn't even matter if people watch it or not anymore as long as the Peacock deal is safe.

Let him debut as the next member of the nWo first though.

A few years ago, WWE would probably have thrown silly money to get the guy to add to their NXT revolving door of already established super workers and to prevent AEW would getting him. Now ? Not too sure they would even consider it. Sure, he's young but by their standards he's also quite small. If I'm White and I look at how they screwed up 99% of the people they got their hands on, unless I get totally stupid money there's no way I step a foot in this toxic waste of a company. My guess is that playing between NJPW (who really doesn't want to lose a guy like him once the restrictions are lifted) and AEW is the way to go.

Oh, ok, I did not get it. Well, it would have taken too much time between her first appearance and the next PPV. Plus since Baker would have won anyway, having a long-ass build to a defeat for Ruby's first big match would not have done her much good probably.

Indeed. But it looks cool. Pro-wrestling is visual. That's what drives me crazy (well, not really but kinda) with all the stupid "lol movez" criticism that should have died sometime in the mid 00's when the meme got old already, back when the DVDVR board was still green. Pro-wrestling is also (and mostly, realistically, as the narratives really are repetitive as fuck and not all that interesting unless you add out of the ring storylines) a visual form, and a dynamic visual form, it's not a painting either. Moves matter. The form of the moves matter. Execution matters. Creativity matters. Inventing new forms of using your body, the body of your opponent, the space you're moving into (inside and outside, and using every element of the space that is the wrestling ring) matters. It's what makes pro-wrestling fun and instills new life into it, always. Of course some move can look too awkward or too stupid, that happens, especially if you don't find good solution to make them look cool (that damn jumping stunner by Cena for instance), but most pro-wrestling moves are stupid in themselves. Who runs into someone's boot and drops to the floor, and who gets hurt by someone breaking his collarbone while he's kinda dropping the back of his knees onto your throat ? Yeah Hogan, I'm looking at your dumbass offense. Despite its more than iffy physics, the Destroyer is a commonly used move now, and not even a finisher anymore (and why should it be unless someone makes it a finisher again, this is a 15 years old move now, bitching about it is like bitching about a superplex in 1990). Anyway. Kinda went off the topic slightly, but that's what I do, I rant. And yeah, the Meltdown is a big part of what made Wrath look like the coollest mofo in the company for a month or two, before Kevin Nash decided that he had to get over good old Adam Bomb before killing off Goldy.

That show was a reminder of how much Ospreay & White have been missed on NJPW shows. Ishii vs White was awesome. I have no idea how Ishii keeps on going on like that, he legit looks like an old guy when he walks to the ring. It's gonna be striking on Dynamite how small he actually is too. Okada vs Buddy Matthews, Ospreay vs Narita and Moose vs Robinson were all excellent matches in their own way. Narita is gonna be so great, hopefully not given a stupid gimmick though. Robinson's contract is ending soon I believe, maybe it's time for him to seek other options, I don't see him get much further in NJ. That being said, way too many people in AEW already, and WWE is just cursed. Matthews certainly did himself good for getting a high profile match like that. I guess NJ is the way to go, he doesn't have the WWE style stench like some did when they left (Cardonna at first). Alexander vs Uemura was a very good opener, as expected. Alexander is one of the wrestlers of the year to me, just terrific every time around. Did not watch the rest. I'm already way oversaturated now. Too much wrestling available, and too much really good pro-wrestling to boot. Gotta take a rest. Production sucked though. The sound quality was about as good as listing to a podcast on Winamp or Realplayer, and during the main event the announcing just disappeared for a while. For such a huge company as NJPW, this was pretty amateurish. Shingo vs Okada and then whoever wins against Ospreay, well you can't complain about those WK main events.

A 1-2 punch of Danielson/Punk would indeed be pretty great for establishing Hangman. Omega will probably take some time off, as he's been working on a very banged up body for a while now and he's been killing it all year long. And when he comes back, Danielson II has to happen. I agree with the idea Hangman's reign probably won't be a super long one like we've seen with Omega, it doesn't need to be. MJF would absolutely make sense to me too as the next guy getting the title and the first pillar to do it. Also, at some point, you know we'll get that Wardlow "Batista" turn and babyface push against his former boss, and he could be the first hoss worker to get the title (Miro & Keith Lee, if he signs and his health allows it, have a shot to). The one thing about the AEW title, is that it's not gonna be bounced around for the sake of it or because "you deserve it !", so the people getting it must be very meaningfull.

Yeah, I got a very Austin vs Bret or even Bret vs Micheals 97 feel with the promos. It was fascinating to see how the crowd got with one of the other during the match too. Now, we finally got Hangman as the champ, and he's really the first AEW original main-eventer. One thing great about AEW and their world title reigns is that they all have been very distinct. Jericho's was very different from Mox's, which was very different from Omega's. And as Jericho was the Terry Funk of sorts, with a heavy WWE background and Mox was the WWE outcast/rebel, Omega was the first former non-WWE main eventer getting to the position and now we got to the point of having a guy who has never been in the top spot before. The next step I guess will be one of the pillars, although at some points I could see either Danielson or Punk getting a title reign (although that doesn't seem needed). What will Hangman's reign be like ? Was the chase better than the catch ? There's plenty of heel they can line-up to build a strong reign, Miro, Andrade, Black, Cole, MJF. The dynamic is gonna change drastically and I'm pretty excited about it, although I won't lie, I'm gonna miss Omega & the Bucks on top, as the Elite's reign of terror in 2021 as been my favorite thing in pro-wrestling in decades (probably since 1997).

It did not *distract* from the finish and wasn't unnecessary. It was the main spot that *led* to the finish. It was not just a neat callback spot, the entire story of the Hangman splitting for real with his friends came from that key moment. Also, the Bucks were pretty much perfect here, they absolutely did not overact, let's not pretend it was a "Sorry I love you" heavy handed spot, because it was just not. At some point, it's like we're you're watching a show from Season 2 or 3, yeah you won't have all of the details and that's ok but frankly, that's not on the show to make it simplistic for everyone to get everything. The Elite stuff is all about depths, like the subtle Ibushi reference that was made by Hangman. Depths is a good thing. It's what made Hangman's win so much better in the grand scheme of things and it keeps on pushing the story of the Elite further. Like it's been said, the big apex is gonna be one day all of those guys together again as babyfaces. Now we get Hangman vs Danielson. Can't wait. Because they did not want to beat Ruby again. And they do not want to take the belt off Baker yet. Basic. Quite frankly, as much as I've enjoyed Soho, to me she hasn't exactly set the world on fire as far as in-ring goes and having a catchy song will only go so far as far as getting over with this kind of hardcore audience. The one who should beat Baker is Thunder Rosa, really. She's one if not their best women worker (maybe it's Deeb) and she's one of the most over too. And she beat Baker in that "unsanctioned" match. She has to be the next champ. The issue with the women's matches is that, apart from a few select times (Baker vs Rosa brawl, Shida vs Deeb II, some early Riho matches), they absolutely can't follow the average level of the work. I mean, I had watched the Stardom Kawasaki Wars show a few days before, and holly hell the gap is still *huge* on average (I've been really really impressed by the average level of the promotion, and the peaks are really high too). I really like Conti, but as shown here she's still green. Ditto Anna Jay, who has come back from the injury seemingly hesitant. Soho is not the answer either. They need more super solid veteran women to work with the younger ones and more women with strong characters and personality to get over. Taya Valkyrie is soon available...

MJF vs Darby was great. Overachieved a great deal, MJF was terrific. Miro vs Danielson was great. Really smart to have Danielson win so as to add a bit more doubt to the main event. FTR vs Lucha Brothers was great. They finally found a way to mesh up together. Cole & Bucks vs Cage & Jurassik was great. As expected in creative ways. Christian is still kinda crazy. Kingston vs CM Punk was great and insanely intense (the Cena spot had me dying too). Omega vs Hangman was great (and that long time storytelling has been the best thing in pro-wrestling in the last two years). Those alone make it an all-time great PPV. Andrade & Black vs Cody & PAC was fun because of the interesting dynamic, and it had some great moments, but Cody's booking is gonna be a headcase. Baker vs Conti was pretty good overall, they obviously still are learning, both of them. The 10 men clusterfuck had some crazy moments and enough fun shit (the only time ever I enjoyed a claw spot) for a car crash. I wish PVZ would have been there to fuck up some Inner Circle jerks though. Even without the allegations, Jay..... (WHITE WHITE WHITE !!!!!! oh.... ok) Lethal would have been meh and deflating considering who's out there. The fact the first thing he did was a Ric Flair impersonation was hilarious in the wrongest way possible. Ishii on Dynamite ? I'm fucking there. Really an awesome PPV overall. The Hangman final, between the Bucks not doing the leg grab (that's storytelling people) and the Dark Order celebration (with Hangman throwing the beer away) was pretty much pro-wrestling perfection. (and no, I don't mind a 4 hour PPV considering they are only doing four a year and they have been mostly great thus far. Plus I don't watch it live anyway, FITE works great, just made a one hour pause in the middle, got me through a gloomy Sunday afternoon, just perfect. I did not realize that November 13 was Eddie's death anniversary, although I finally got it when Jericho did his tribute, as November 13 in France is the anniversary of a whole other very tragic event)

That line-up is sick. Just sick. Something for everyone. Great matches galore on paper. And the perspective of what it can open following it up is mind expanding. I would watch it live if I wasn't feeling sleepy before midnight these days. Gonna make a gloomy Sunday a perfect day, hopefully.

Eddie Kingston is awesome.

Shingo Takagi's title reign really has been the saving grace of NJPW this year. That ZSJ match was next level great. With Okada getting back into the groove of being the GOAT (yeah, him too, that's too many for one GOAT spot I know), the WK match could be one for the ages. I would not object Okada bringing back the old belt he's carrying around if he won the title, which he probably will. I mean, that World Title belt has been cursed. Can't wait until Danielson finally gets to do those NJPW shows, hopefully in a not so far futur. So many dream matches to do, but Takagi and ZSJ maybe are the ones I look forward to the most. Hopefully they eventually happen.

24 years ago ! 24 ! Way to make you feel old as fuck.

They really missed they opportunity to call John Cena "John" back in the days. Would have been money.

Former WCW tag team champion Judy Bagwell passed away.

Actually, it is not at all, for several reasons. First, it is not 2010 anymore, and IMPACT is not trying to position itself as an alternative to WWE. They are a small company and they know exactly where they are on the landscape, they are the equivalent of a small territory from back in the days. They are a big fish in a small pond company and are happily functioning that way. Second, the women tag team championship, although have been made important in the company's lore, are still the lowest in the totem pole. IMPACT World Title > Knockout's World Title > X Division title > Tag Team Titles > Knockout's Tag Team Titles. Plus, the introductory angle was that they basically did not deserve a title shot because they were not even in the company, but they came in like stars (as their intro showed). But it's not like if Eva Marie showed up and defeated Deonna Purrazzo, not at all. I absolutely did not see the Moose thing coming, and I was shocked like crazy when it happened, and I was glad I was because after 31 years of watching pro-wrestling I can still get tricked in the best way. Totally made sense if you watched Moose's entire arc since the ECW3 feud where he has become that über-focused killer and opportunist with no conscience whatsoever. Just amazingly well done too. Christian vs Alexander was excellent too (although Alexander had better matches this year honestly). And now we get Suzuki trading shots with Alexander and soon Mickie James vs Mercedes Martinez. Fuck yes.

Plenty of people have been doing that spot for decades. I think the first guy I saw do that one, or the equivalent, was Owen Hart (who actually was doing a kneedrop, which looked wicked). Yeah, I agree this kind of spot looks stupid (yeah, get your arm away already), but then again most pro-wrestling does. I mean, once an irish whip is ok... Speaking of which, it always strikes me as an amazing case of cognitive dissonance (that's the technical term for "people being full of shit" too sometimes) when Christian Cage is praised for being this awesome pro-wrestler with the greatest knack for small details and shit (which he is, to a point), yet his finisher is one of the most obviously and awkwardly cooperative shit you can think of, especially the way he sets it off with this really completely physically illogical way that kinda looks like an old NWA title match strenght test reversal where the guy who is actually losing is controlling the body of the guy who's winning to the point he's basically dropping his head down... Just, complete nonsense. I mean, Tommy Rogers used to do it but would basically hook the arms and work a super quick reverse and drop down, which looked way better (quite more dangerous probably, although I don't think he ever injured anyone), but the way Christian (or Chelsea Green) does it always look awkward as all hell and physically, well, completely impossible if the other guy just doesn't go for it all the way.

Catching up with the bullshit (and the great and fun pro-wrestling, but that's not in this thread), I hate to tell you people I told you so, but I told you so. Referring to at least two people I used to care about in other places, namely Scarlett Bordeaux and Taya Valkyrie. When Scarlett signed two years ago (TWO years ago, amazing), I pretty much said WWE would not get her character and waste her. I was still way off in how much they would. TWO years and they did absolutely *nothing* with her. She was coming off an IMPACT/indy stint where she was quite a hot (pun intended) character, and they reduced her to basically an animatronic for her boyfriend's entrance. When you add the fact the boyfriend in question's stint has been a miserable failure in every way (when even IMPACT never used him as a main event player, you know there was a disconnect here), it gets even worse. And know here she goes, having wasted two years of her career basically in term of visibility (yeah, I realize she was in WWE, but she was doing nothing apart from being associated for the guy who will forever be linked to the death of the formerly hot brand). How about Taya, who was a total star in IMPACT, she had everything going on, a great look, promo ability, tons of character, could work heel or babyface, a veteran worker. At 38 years old, I pretty much figured she was "too old" for the WWE. And after another dumb renaming, she's gone in a bunch of months after apparently having been lied to about opportunities. If I'm AEW, I jump on her, because as showed by some of the latest TV matches, they still badly need workers like her (I mean, I like Soho and all, but she hasn't set the world on fire as far as in-ring work goes to me, and Anna Jay & Tay Conti are still green as grass, not to mention Jade) and she has that total star potential as far as her character goes. I'd love to see her get that big mainstream stint after she was so good (and got better and better) in both LU and IMPACT. That whole "don't sign girls older that 25 years old" is pretty rich coming from the company who has marketed a "woman's revolution", as pretty clearly the thing in NXT2.0 is pushing hot young women to try and attract a younger male audience. Meanwhile, Mickie James has been killing it in IMPACT and her next challenger is Mercedes Martinez, and both are past 40 years old and they are gonna have probably a terrific match on the next special. I guess in WWE, you're a star if you're a 50 year old dude from a previous era, but you can't hire girls older than 25... Yeah, talent relation really sounds at a great point. Agism is only about women I guess. Keith Lee. Well, I have no idea why people gave WWE the benefit of the doubt each and every time they fucked up with him. The latest of which was giving him the old Bearcat name. Keith Lee never had a chance in WWE because they would not let him be Keith Lee and work like Keith Lee. Hopefully he's another guy who shows up in AEW and demonstrate how incompetent WWE is. With ROH basically becoming a glorified indie, it's not the best of time to get released, but I guess we'll see a new influx for the indie scene, as not everyone will get picked up by AEW or IMPACT. But hey, thanks to Peacock and the Saudi money, they are idiot proof. Just sell this shit to Disney already, can't be much worse (and then I think about the last Star Wars trilogy, oh yeah, sure it can !)

Well, maybe we'll end up having this Charlotte Flair vs Tessa Blanchard match after all...

This is some crazy shit indeed. Poor girl, she can't bet balanced being surrounded by pieces of garbage of human beings like these people. I mean, chanting "Your dad's dead" at the guy who, as a professional, showed concern for the safety of a 13 years old girl ? Spectacular pieces of shit. This is downright harassement and should be dealt with.

The MMA comparison are fine, expect not really since MMA really popped up in the mid 90's, at a point where the whole "you gotta make it believable" was a completely moot point anyway. The only popular fighting sport during pro-wrestling "classic" heydays was boxing. Blood in pro-wrestling is a total other subject, and there's probably a lot to discuss about it too. This. Also, there used to be the good old Harley Race style hardway, which needless to say had to suck a lot worse than blading your forehead in term of actual commotion. Like I said, I don't either, he's a terrific worker anyway.

That's what workers like Bret Hart and countless others, including famous brawlers, have done their entire career. I don't think anyone ever had any issues with it. Also, blading has always looked completely illogical, anyone having watched a boxing match that drew blood in their life would know the crimson mask is bullshit. There's a reason why the most common idea about blood in pro-wrestling is that it's capsule fake blood. Hey, I enjoy stiff work a lot. But I totally see the point of view of workers who would not take that kind of shit when it goes toward the extreme. Hell, to play devil's advocate, I remember The Honky Tonk Man making fun of Steamboat's machingun-wound sell of a guy slapping his chest with his bare open hand, saying it looked completely stupid (of course I disagree, but I understand what he means).

We're talking about from the point of view of his opponents. Yeah, I can take that dropkick, also Money Clip me all day long. His tombstones are always clean as hell too. Also, if you've watched the G1, he's not even close to be broken down, but that's beside the point.

Okada's style is pretty safe, there's maybe one tricky bump in his usual match lay-out, which is the cascading down the top rope from the dropkick. As far as leaving his opponent bruised and covered in welts, well, that's exactly the point I was making earlier in references to not being sure how comfortable I was with this. There is stiffness and there is needless level of stiffness and I'm not sure what to think about WALTER's game. If you *need* to leave your opponent bruised and covered in welts for it to be compelling, what does that really say about your work ? It was referred earlier that some guys like Bret Hart did not like the chops, which is the heart of this discussion really. For a guy like Bret, and many old school US style workers like Martel (who said about Booker T "You have to convince the audience, you don't have to convince me"), it was supposed to be an illusion. And although there is a much different mentality in Japan, guys like Tanahashi (and Okada) really seem to share that point of view. And then there's stiff work, and then there's stiff work that aims at leaving bruises and welts, which is yet another level. It's interesting to watch a guy like Ibushi who at times will kick someone hard in the chest or leg, and at other time will very obviously work light as hell and chose to do the thigh slap. Obviously I'm not a worker so I don't know for sure, but since I mentioned about those moves as "safely executed", I think it's safe to say that a nice powerbomb can lead to a simple flat back bump in which you can use the arms on the side to deflect the impact. As far as german suplexes and side-suplexes, I've seen guys like Ibushi, Naito, Misawa or Kobashi absolutely taking a head bump on purpose from guys who never drop people on their heads otherwise (it was actually one of the cheap ways Misawa would add danger to matches that had no doubt in their results otherwise, which really struck me as poor judgement on every level), so it seems there is some degree of control. And again, these are regular pro-wrestling bumps (suplexes, powerbombs) that you are supposed to take to some extent. Ending up with melted bloody flesh on your chest, not so much. And I would not blame anyone that would not want to take that kind of offense because again, if the only goal is to actually make you bleed and bruised up, you can argue that it's a shitty way to work. I'm not saying WALTER is *only* about that of course, I'm just discussing that specific, but important, aspect of his game which can leave me a bit uncomfortable at times. There was the infamous case of Sid telling Benoit he would not take the chops back in WCW I believe.