El-P

That mixed-tag involving Melissa was worked as well as it could have been. Excellent post-match angle too, Marty is terrific in his role and in this setting. I may want to wait until the last (very last maybe, sadly) episode to binge-watch Ultima Lucha, which on paper is a super exciting card (especially after I heard about the Hell of War match, despite not being a fan of either guy, really, although Dante has ridiculous potential).

I got a kick out of that too. Then again, as much as I zone out every current US announcer (unless it was Ross on the MYC), I do admit I enjoy Striker & Vamp, simply because they're just having fun. Yes, Striker can be annoying with the smarky stuff and Vamp is full of shit, but whenever they go into funny tangent or simply mark out it's so refreshing compared to the absolute corporate zombie nightmare that is WWE announcing. The two things I enjoyed the most in the 100th episode : Melissa Santos slapping the fuck out of Marty (who probably told her beforehand to "make it good" because these were stiff slaps) and Rey vs Matanza, which I thought was excellent. Rey's piling them up in LU, this stint is a huge positive in his resume after the latest years of nothing WWE stuff : cool feuds, terrific matches and of course, the fact a veteran like Rey could fit into the bizarro LU universe. I like the fact that despite their propensity to go into "this is awesome" chants way too often, the audience really booed the hell out of Matanza beating up Rey in the post-match (great beatdown too).

No, because Vince hates WarGames. He would never do it. Trip loves it and always wanted to do it. I guess he's tasting the waters for the future. A three-way doesn't work nearly as well as a regular team vs team match though (of course the WCW 98 version was a catastrophy involving Warrior, Stevie Ray, trapdoors and whatnot, so it can't ever be as bad as this one). It's like WCW appreciation month all of a sudden.

One thing I really enjoy about LU's presentation is all those thematic brawls like we used to do in WCW at one point. The Biker's Brawl and the 5-0 Street Fights were two fun exemples of what a different seting can produce, without going all gimmicky (all things remains props for fucking your opponent up, there's no stupid stipulation or contrived rules). The 5-0 made a better use of the setting, Joey Ryan being a master at mixing things up with his sleazy comedy. First ever anal palpation spot anyone ? And before people get all up in arms about "Ryan killing the business one day at a time", like Striker said the previous week (which was quite funny), it was pretty much Ryan putting his hand on Castro's ass, basically… But yeah, all this stuff makes the product seem different and the gimmick matches actually unique (as opposed to yearly boring gimmick PPV's, ya know…). The stories really go away and come back seemingly with no real purpose at this point, but hey, this last (?) season still builds to a super card at the end, so no big deal. It's all pulp anyway. Catching up on Ultima Lucha Tres very soon !

I can relate to that too. But if the end result is not good nor fun to watch, I'm not gonna enjoy that more than a really good match that I've seen before. It's gonna be a footnote. It's a balance. Plus with the really good matches that I've seen before that I go back and rewatch, there's always new things to pick up on based on other watching I've done and changes in me. Agreed. I appreciate different things in matches I've seen before too, although at this point I really don't rewatch anything TBH. So it would be more worker-based.

Not yet, but I have no doubt it is. Can't wait, I have really enjoyed the whole Marty/Fenix/Melissa angle.

I can relate to that too. But if the end result is not good nor fun to watch, I'm not gonna enjoy that more than a really good match that I've seen before. It's gonna be a footnote.

Small "No means no ! " chant during a Marty the Moth & Melissa Santos angle on LU. Fun.

*cringe* Since I already consider Jimmy Garvin as one of the worst wrestler I've seen, I really don't look forward to get through this (watching a Horsemen comp)...

I can relate to that. I think it works for me too. Well, there a a lot of things I love, but I don't throw the *great* line that easily. That's a big point of contention to me, has been for years, when every week you hear about several "great" matches. If everything is great, then nothing is that great. The MOTYC thread for instance I don't participate because I'd say NO about 99% of the time. Basically, if you get down to snowflakes, ****1/4 (which equals "great" to me) you don't see everyday. Past that, it's simply damn rare. On the other hand, I've lightened up quite a bit on the different stuff I get enjoyement out of. I can like a lot of different stuff, including really goofy shit, which is fine with me. But the systematic praise of whatever "solid" or "ok" stuff as something special just doesn't fly with me. So yeah, I like "more" stuff but I find it harder to get blown away (last time was, well, the Tully vs Magnum TA cage match).

Sometimes, the very first seconds of a match are enough to think this will be underwhelming. Pentagon & Puma getting straight into lame elbows exchange was just that. Kind of a soulless spot-show, it didn't grab my attention very much. We know these guys can do all these moves, but then again what ? That's my big beef with Ricochet, he's not been overly charismatic. Pentagon not playing heel and just going through spots is disappointing. No problem calling the main event a great match though. Much more slower paced, Mundo actually doing heel work, building up the match with the story of Rey not being up to speed with the younger champion at times. I even liked the 619 teases (I made my peace with the spot at this point, although the final set up bump by Mundo showed again how actually awkward it has to be). I don't mind Cueto's run-in, as it's building to the next big match, and really Cueto is brillant in his role. Took a nice bump too. (I can't stand the lawyer/agent character too BTW, totally needless, doesn't show much in term of charisma and flat out doesn't interest me at all, that's clearly a miss)

Indeed. After Heenan, that's yet another "THE greatest" that is going with Lance Russel. He was at least half the reason why watching old Memphis TV stuff was so fun.

On the other hand, a Flair promo from February of 87 : "We're gonna take Precious, and we're gonna have her ride Space Mountains whether she wants it or not." Wait. Did Flair just said the Horsemen were gonna have him rape Precious there ? Holy shit.

That was pretty much alien comedy, with maybe a wee-bit of hentai.

Dave was saying the other day that WWE is the only company in the world he can't have access too anymore as far as interviews go, which is kinda crazy when you think about it.

Obviously. Where the hell has FLIK gone BTW ? He could answer.

I'm enjoying Tomko in TNA quite a bit. Good character, solid modern powerman work, interesting look (not a fan of the 00's tribal tatoos stuff at all, but at least going all the way made it unique in his case).

Because Seth is not pushed as the Ace. Reigns is supposed to be Cena/Rock/Austin/Hogan. And he's simply NOT. The forcefeeding is ridiculous. WWE can be happy about the obnoxious TV rights fees bubble, really...

Because the era of scripted promos began with Stephy's reign of creative terror. And from then, it doesn't matter how good/bad you are. The words are not yours. It's all about delivery. And you can have a good delivery (cf Bray Wyatt), it doesn't make you a great promo. And you can be the ace and probably be a great promo and still get feed shitfest material (cf Cena and his smiling-poop-jokes-whocareifIjustlostthechampionship stuff). And also pretty much suck at it (cf Reigns who hasn't showed shit). The whole "he's a great promo" is a thing of the past, there's no "promos" anymore, there are "produced dialogues". Which is why Dario Cueto in LU looks like the greatest "promo" ever, because he's an actual actor.

Except in both cases, it actually doesn't mean anything, really. I've seen plenty of movies with critical/public consensus which I thought were not good at all, so it's never an argument to me. (it works better the other way around usually, when there's a consensus on something being really horrible, it usually is, although there are exceptions) It doesn't ultimately, naw. My favorite comedy ever is UHF and it has like a 60% on Rotten Tomatoes. My favorite Survivor Series match is the Doink Vs. Lawler match featuring all of the minis. That's the spirit !

The issue is some people getting pissy because Evil Meltz is supposedly influencing the entire pro-wrestling business with his allmighty star ratings and is solely responsible for a style they don't care about becoming the norm of success currently. More or less.

Except in both cases, it actually doesn't mean anything, really. I've seen plenty of movies with critical/public consensus which I thought were not good at all, so it's never an argument to me. (it works better the other way around usually, when there's a consensus on something being really horrible, it usually is, although there are exceptions)

***** matches are sooo 1995. ******1/4 is the name of the game now. (seriously, I thought people stopped caring for snowflakes a long, long time ago. I'm kinda shocked people are concerned that much about it again. Last time I used snowflakes regularly was like, in 2001 or so)

FWIW, Meltz overrates plenty of WWE stuff too.

The only one that is overvalued is "workrate" as in "the more action the better". As far as the rest goes : execution of moves : very important, if what you do looks like shit, it takes the whole thing down because, well, the very substance of what you're watching (two bodies taking actions on each others) simply doesn't look convincing/good. Most of the non-workraty guys that people love around here have great executions (how many time we hear about Lawler having those great punches and the best piledriver ?) bumping : same thing, bumping is selling. If the bumps you take are shitty, you make your opponent's offense look shitty, and the whole match doesn't work as well (Lawler : great, great bumper) selling : very important, for obvious reasons. Great selling demands great execution. You can save a poor executed move by great seling though, while you can make a greatly executed move look shitty by poor selling (see also : bumping) character portrayal : overrated in this day and age, a product of Post-Benoit Workrate guilt aka "He plays his role right = he's great". Go tell Arn Anderson or Nick Bockwinkle that he was "playing a character". Plus, when your work in every other category is not very good, who cares about the "character" ? Way, way overrated (by the promotions too, since sadly, pro-wrestlers are thrown into these "characters" that aren't themselves today) Back in the days, I remember we used to talk more about body language and facials, which I guess you can throw into "execution/selling". Seems like a much better category to me (for instance to compare Amazing Kong and Nia Jaxx, and why one is a great monster while the other is not, while not throwing the lazy "She's playing her character well" argument) crowd manipulation : this is the trickiest because of the wrestler's status and how he's presented by the promotion. At some point, some guys are so over and such superstars and they have such a captive audience they can do anything, it doesn't matter anymore. That's Austin, Rock etc... Making a crowd who doesn't care get into things, or turning around a crowd, that's the art, but in this day and age, with everything so micro-managed and pre-produced, I don't see how you can gauge that. As a crowd manipulator, Roman Reigns is a sub-zero I guess. Also, what about guys "manipulating" the crowds into getting insane by doing a thousand superkicks ? The whole "if the crowds loves it, it works" argument ? So, this one is way too tricky to really consider, because the weigh of the promotion (as in, how the talent is promoted by the company/booker) matters to much. As far as Meltz goes, I have no idea why people care so much about other people's opinions, really. (EDIT : the one thing that was the most ridiculous to me in the post PPV show was the idea that the main event would have been better if Braun would have kicked out of one of two F5. Because that's good work, kicking out of finishers and shit. It automatically makes a match better. Now, that was kinda cringe worthy indeed.)