El-P

"That was me all along !" Could be so bad it's good.

The whole "get stretchered out then come back" shit is a WWE Shitty Overbooking Shortcut 101. Hate it since that famous NAO angle which was so dramatic, only to get killed off at the very end of the show by Foley & Funk coming back after they were supposedly destroyed. It's really off-topic here since we're talking about overbooking crazy shit with a hundred run-ins and a dozen ref bumps. That being said, JCP shit finishes were annoying as hell and really ripped-off fans. So many Flair matches really felt like having cheap-ass finishes, including on the biggest shows. I'm going through a Horsemen comp, and I don't enjoy any of those shit finishes. Not because they're not "clean", but because they're systematic and thus predictably boring. Dusty's overrated. But that's another thread.

Fuck you, you idiot. Ole was anything but and was a perfectly fine bumper to boot. You just had not watch enough Ole, who's a terrific worker (and one of the best promo ever). Great team.

Yeah, loved the Flock. One of the best, which I always use as an instance of workers working a match in front of a crowd that couldn't give less of a fuck and by the end had the same crowd molten, is Raven vs Saturn from (I believe) WWIII 98, for the freedom of the Flock. Terrific match and amazing dog & pony show, with the classic spot of Kidman dropkicking Raven which made him an immediate babyface cruiserweight star.

As great a go-go-go Flair match you'll ever see. It's like after all those matches against Dusty and Nikita, Flair finally found a dance partner that could just go-go-go for as long and as fast as he did. Windham was so amazing in 87/88. It's an overlooked feud because you don't have those big PPV matches, but this is Flair and Windham at their respective best. Which, in 1987, was basically the best in the US and some of the best ever.

It was the "internet fan" that kinda irked me, because what are we all around here ? Yeah, in essence, we agree. I have loved shoot-style (still do, but don't watch much these days for obvious reasons) and I'm a Raven fan (and right now, a big LU fan). Can't think of two more opposites of the spectrum. There's so much different things that can work. There's basically nothing *wrong* when any particular thing is done right. Hell, I even enjoyed some of those Double J specials watching TNA, because I actually got a kick at how ridiculous the overbooking would get and how many guitars Jarrett would waste before finally hitting the fatality shot. I found its own absurd logic and in turn, it became fun to watch.

Says a guy who does shitloads of review on an über-elitist pro-wrestling board (a *board*, in 2017...), well, in 2017, when *everyone* is an "internet fan". Not to be a dick, but really, do we need to have this kind of attitude ? It's like "indy darling lol" and "WWE fans booing the wrong stuff are stoopid", this really should go away... Overbooking sucks 99% of the time because it's just that, overbooking of stuff that would work much better if they were simpler. A simple run-in or ref-bump is not overbooking BTW, it takes more than the usual stuff to be called real overbooking. But when it's well thought out or done in a really fun way, like most of Raven's dog & pony show, it can be as fun as anything (I'm a Raven fan). The greatest instance of great overbooking that works is the infamous Steve Austin vs Dude Love second PPV match in 1998. Just ridiculous but masterfully worked.

That mixed-tag involving Melissa was worked as well as it could have been. Excellent post-match angle too, Marty is terrific in his role and in this setting. I may want to wait until the last (very last maybe, sadly) episode to binge-watch Ultima Lucha, which on paper is a super exciting card (especially after I heard about the Hell of War match, despite not being a fan of either guy, really, although Dante has ridiculous potential).

I got a kick out of that too. Then again, as much as I zone out every current US announcer (unless it was Ross on the MYC), I do admit I enjoy Striker & Vamp, simply because they're just having fun. Yes, Striker can be annoying with the smarky stuff and Vamp is full of shit, but whenever they go into funny tangent or simply mark out it's so refreshing compared to the absolute corporate zombie nightmare that is WWE announcing. The two things I enjoyed the most in the 100th episode : Melissa Santos slapping the fuck out of Marty (who probably told her beforehand to "make it good" because these were stiff slaps) and Rey vs Matanza, which I thought was excellent. Rey's piling them up in LU, this stint is a huge positive in his resume after the latest years of nothing WWE stuff : cool feuds, terrific matches and of course, the fact a veteran like Rey could fit into the bizarro LU universe. I like the fact that despite their propensity to go into "this is awesome" chants way too often, the audience really booed the hell out of Matanza beating up Rey in the post-match (great beatdown too).

No, because Vince hates WarGames. He would never do it. Trip loves it and always wanted to do it. I guess he's tasting the waters for the future. A three-way doesn't work nearly as well as a regular team vs team match though (of course the WCW 98 version was a catastrophy involving Warrior, Stevie Ray, trapdoors and whatnot, so it can't ever be as bad as this one). It's like WCW appreciation month all of a sudden.

One thing I really enjoy about LU's presentation is all those thematic brawls like we used to do in WCW at one point. The Biker's Brawl and the 5-0 Street Fights were two fun exemples of what a different seting can produce, without going all gimmicky (all things remains props for fucking your opponent up, there's no stupid stipulation or contrived rules). The 5-0 made a better use of the setting, Joey Ryan being a master at mixing things up with his sleazy comedy. First ever anal palpation spot anyone ? And before people get all up in arms about "Ryan killing the business one day at a time", like Striker said the previous week (which was quite funny), it was pretty much Ryan putting his hand on Castro's ass, basically… But yeah, all this stuff makes the product seem different and the gimmick matches actually unique (as opposed to yearly boring gimmick PPV's, ya know…). The stories really go away and come back seemingly with no real purpose at this point, but hey, this last (?) season still builds to a super card at the end, so no big deal. It's all pulp anyway. Catching up on Ultima Lucha Tres very soon !

I can relate to that too. But if the end result is not good nor fun to watch, I'm not gonna enjoy that more than a really good match that I've seen before. It's gonna be a footnote. It's a balance. Plus with the really good matches that I've seen before that I go back and rewatch, there's always new things to pick up on based on other watching I've done and changes in me. Agreed. I appreciate different things in matches I've seen before too, although at this point I really don't rewatch anything TBH. So it would be more worker-based.

Not yet, but I have no doubt it is. Can't wait, I have really enjoyed the whole Marty/Fenix/Melissa angle.

I can relate to that too. But if the end result is not good nor fun to watch, I'm not gonna enjoy that more than a really good match that I've seen before. It's gonna be a footnote.

Small "No means no ! " chant during a Marty the Moth & Melissa Santos angle on LU. Fun.

*cringe* Since I already consider Jimmy Garvin as one of the worst wrestler I've seen, I really don't look forward to get through this (watching a Horsemen comp)...

I can relate to that. I think it works for me too. Well, there a a lot of things I love, but I don't throw the *great* line that easily. That's a big point of contention to me, has been for years, when every week you hear about several "great" matches. If everything is great, then nothing is that great. The MOTYC thread for instance I don't participate because I'd say NO about 99% of the time. Basically, if you get down to snowflakes, ****1/4 (which equals "great" to me) you don't see everyday. Past that, it's simply damn rare. On the other hand, I've lightened up quite a bit on the different stuff I get enjoyement out of. I can like a lot of different stuff, including really goofy shit, which is fine with me. But the systematic praise of whatever "solid" or "ok" stuff as something special just doesn't fly with me. So yeah, I like "more" stuff but I find it harder to get blown away (last time was, well, the Tully vs Magnum TA cage match).

Sometimes, the very first seconds of a match are enough to think this will be underwhelming. Pentagon & Puma getting straight into lame elbows exchange was just that. Kind of a soulless spot-show, it didn't grab my attention very much. We know these guys can do all these moves, but then again what ? That's my big beef with Ricochet, he's not been overly charismatic. Pentagon not playing heel and just going through spots is disappointing. No problem calling the main event a great match though. Much more slower paced, Mundo actually doing heel work, building up the match with the story of Rey not being up to speed with the younger champion at times. I even liked the 619 teases (I made my peace with the spot at this point, although the final set up bump by Mundo showed again how actually awkward it has to be). I don't mind Cueto's run-in, as it's building to the next big match, and really Cueto is brillant in his role. Took a nice bump too. (I can't stand the lawyer/agent character too BTW, totally needless, doesn't show much in term of charisma and flat out doesn't interest me at all, that's clearly a miss)

Indeed. After Heenan, that's yet another "THE greatest" that is going with Lance Russel. He was at least half the reason why watching old Memphis TV stuff was so fun.

On the other hand, a Flair promo from February of 87 : "We're gonna take Precious, and we're gonna have her ride Space Mountains whether she wants it or not." Wait. Did Flair just said the Horsemen were gonna have him rape Precious there ? Holy shit.

That was pretty much alien comedy, with maybe a wee-bit of hentai.

Dave was saying the other day that WWE is the only company in the world he can't have access too anymore as far as interviews go, which is kinda crazy when you think about it.

Obviously. Where the hell has FLIK gone BTW ? He could answer.

I'm enjoying Tomko in TNA quite a bit. Good character, solid modern powerman work, interesting look (not a fan of the 00's tribal tatoos stuff at all, but at least going all the way made it unique in his case).

Because Seth is not pushed as the Ace. Reigns is supposed to be Cena/Rock/Austin/Hogan. And he's simply NOT. The forcefeeding is ridiculous. WWE can be happy about the obnoxious TV rights fees bubble, really...