El-P

Justin Credible doesn't belong here. He's really solid. nWo Sting was good in Japan. Balls Mahoney could be decent, but could be quite bad also, and his gimmick sucks. The Godwinns suck pig balls. Awful workers, both of them.

Scorpio, by a wide margin. And if Aja is considered "black", then yes, by an even more wide margin. I don't get the Butch Reed was a great worker argument at all. Good, yes. But great ? I don't see it at all.

I had no idea he still worked in WCW in 2000 and 2001. He's only 35 *now*, which I find amazing.

The Berlyn match is infamous for Duggan refusing to put him over. I don't remember what happened exactly. Although he comes off as a real good guy in his shoot interview, Duggan also appears to have a problem grasping the concept of putting over younger guys, to the point of him didn't understanding why Steve Austin was pissed about having to do a job for him. Wright is currently my most underrated talent of WCW in 98. He was so good, he could do comedy, serious matches with stiffness, acrobatics, matwork, chickenshit heel, could work with cruiserweight and heavyweight with no problem whatsoever adapting. I wonder what happened to him after the Berlyn debacle.

Insanely retarded unless Lawler isn't physically able to do it safely. But shit, Terry Funk was doing safe piledrivers at the same age, and he had no knees.

Basically. He did just what he had to do to make people happy and stay over. Even after his cancer, Duggan was as energetic and enthousiastic in the ring as he was before. He didn't need to do more and stayed over for his entire with his stuff. He didn't need to work stiff like in Mid South, although on some rare occasions like against Vader or Meng in WCW he could work stiffer again. I can't believe I of all people is defending Duggan.

Unprotected chair shot from a messed up guy = trouble.

Standard Al Snow spiel then. When was the point Al Snow went from movezy, indy darling to "selling tickets is all that matters" bitter dude? Was there some sort of mental breakdown involved? Al Sow was already unbearable when he taped his second Shoot Interview. He was alla bout defending WWF, about how he was the only one responsible for not making the most out of the great opportunity Vince gave him, about how people who never worked in the business don't know shit about it. Really went from a fun guy to a über serious, bordering agressive and delusional guy, sounding like he was brainwashed by his second WWE stint. Of course the most ridiculous point he made was "There is only ONE pop per show. At the end. All the other pops are not really pops, and it only leads to the real POP at the end." Or some nonsense. I really don't want to hear this Guest Booker issue. Plus when did Al Snow became an expert on how to work a match, when all he did during his career was pretty much spot matches. Not exactly the posterboy for psychology, building a match, nor drawing money for that matter.

Actually, after watching Hogan vs Bret from the last Nitro of September, the whole "Bret shows that he truly respect Sting and turns face" deal ended up being a swerve. Which make the awkward and weak face interview quite cool in retrospect, because Bret really looks like a total asshole now. I've been swerved by WCW 13 years after the fact, I feel a bit like an idiot... But I'm glad Bret is still a heel, I totally forgot how his career went in WCW so I really watch this unfolds like it's the first time I see it.

September : _Man, that Warrior feud is unbearable, the worst thing I've seen thus far, by a huge margin. Not even "so bad it's good", it's just plain godawful, not even funny in a ridiculous way. _Way to fuck up Bret Hart even more. After hitting his stride as a manipulative heel, having really good match and delivering really good promos, they turn him face again for zero reasons, and he does look awkward apologizing to the fans for his attitude, and just plain stupid and weak having been "put on the wrong tracks" by Hogan. Bret really had no chance of making it in WCW, the way they booked him was just terrible. _Raven vs Saturn may be my favourite feud of the year thus far. Their match at Fall brawl is amazing in how they got the crowd rocking, with at least 4 credible false finishes. The pop Kidman got when he betrayed Raven was huge. The next day he wins the cruiserweight title (Juvi ended up being nothing but a transition champ), and once again gets a huge pop. In two days, they made Kidman *over* as a face. _Ernest Miller in my TV, and although he's finding his niche as a heel, it means more bad matches (expect a good one with Psychosis). _Ric Flair comeback was clearly the highlight of the year in WCW. Just an awesome moment of TV, just a vibrant, for the ages promo. This Horsemen comeback was really well built, with some of the best promos of the year from Anderson, Flair and Bischoff. _Jericho doing the Goldberg entrance and losing his way through the building was way more funny than he should have been. You get the feeling Jerich was really coming up with his own stuff. _Wrath, looking like Adam Bomb again after getting rid of the Mortal Kombat outfit, is getting a big push as a monster. I don't remember if that went anywhere, but he's more fun to watch than Goldie to me. Yeah, Goldie's boring me. _Disco Inferno trying to make the weight to compete for the cruiserweight title = fun. Serious anti-american Alex Wright challenging other european wrestlers = fun. Norman Smiley showing up = fun, although the crowd doesn't know how to react to him at this point. _Nick Densmore is a jobber. _They run quite a bit of "shoot angle" apart from Flair's comeback : Eddie Guerrero cutting s "shoot" promo on Bischoff, which was awkward as hell and not very good at all, complete with throwing coffee over himself (ah, the joy of learning those insider infos back in the days), and Scott Hall showing up "drunk", which is funny once, but gets annoying and nowhere fast. Well, it's a bit better than during the summer thanks to Flair's comeback which was exciting, and the undercard getting a bit better.

Hennig's multiple comebacks over the years, leading each time to him departing the company before the angle he's involved in could amount to anything, is the strangest occurence of 90's WWF.

Well, Court Bauer told that story again last week on Alvarez's show, that Vince loved Pirate of the Caribbean and wanted Burchill to have the gimmick. So, where's the truth here ?

Yeah, Slater was really good, and the only criticism I ever heard about him is the Nise Terry Funk argument. Maxx Payne didn't had much opportunity to shine, but I think it's safe to say he was pretty good. I wish he had showed up in ECW. I also wish his behind the scene footage would eventually show up somewhere.

Am I the only one thinking Tiger MAsk IV has been the best thus far ? I heard he's been quite lazy since he's been in New Japan, but in MPro, TMIV was quite the worker. Misawa didn't do much memorable as TMII, and Kanemoto from what I remember wasn't very good as TMIII.

The Godwinns do suck and should be forgotten.

I always enjoyed fat and old Windham. Enjoyed him as a Blackjack. Enjoyed him as a "NWA" representative. Enjoyed his last WCW run. Windham is a guy that was so good that even when he got fat and banged up and lazy, I always enjoyed him to a degree.

I'm watching WCW 1998, and Hennig is in my top 5 of worst performers on TV on a regular basis, along with Konnan and Brian Adams. In September he seems to get a bit more motivated again, and he's wearing long shorts to hide a huge knee brace. But up to the Summer, Hennig was just awful. He also had a very awkward way of bumping, trying to do some half-ass "insane" bumping like he used to, but always pivoting to never fall on his back, which made for very odd looking bumps. From memory I think he was actually decent in 99, but we'll see. Another guy that just looked like crap in 98 was the British Bulldog. And I'm talking about way before fucking up his back on Warrior's trap in September. This is the same guy who had a legit MOTYC with Owen the previous year, some excellent tag matches and another very good single match with Michaels depsite being banged up in fall of 97. In WCW the Bulldog was just atrocious to watch. Seemingly no power left in his body, no desire to do anything, screwing up simple spots. Amazing. After the trap door accident it was over, his comeback in WWF was even worst, just godawful at that point. He could look halfway decent in tag matches but the workload had to be carried by Jim Neidhart. *gasp*

Because Tiger Mask was all about believability you see... And he never exposed the business by screwing up spots... He never did. No.

It's not like his mega push in 1997 worked very well either. Some say Sasaki getting the IWGP title was the first sign of the dawn of puroresu... But seriously, Sasaki really didn't make it before the 2000s.

I'll rewatch Goldberg vs DDP pretty soon. I used to like it a lot, mainly because I was amazed DDP was able to get such a match out of Goldie, I wonder how it aged. Good Goldie match ? Thus far, I've seen exactly one, and it was thanks to Raven and his bag of tricks. It was not a *good match* moreso than a *good Goldberg match* like you said. The first competitive Goldberg matches against Saturn sucked, Goldie was just lost. You can argue Regal got an interesting match out of Goldberg, but it was more about him not being the most cooperative which made it fun to watch. I know people pimp Goldberg vs Sid matches, which to me doesn't make any sense. I haven't seen them in ages, but apart from lot pof blood, it was freaking Sid against Goldie. Didn't Sting got a good match out of him at one point ?

You don't want to use the Goldberg analogy. I'm currently rewatching WCW 1998, and Goldberg really wasn't fun to watch most of the time. Squashing a bunch of jobbers only goes so far with me, especially when you do the exact same three moves in every match. It was kinda fun for a while at the beginning, then quickly became extremely boring to me, especially when Goldberg was facing guys like Scott Putski and Barry Darsow, guys who couldn't buy a win on Thunder to save their lives, while he was the WCW champ. Not exactly compelling. Goldberg was interesting only depending on who his opponent was. And still, he couldn't work a lick really, and was lost as soon as something unplanned happen. He had his three or four moves that looked good, and that's it. Smokes and mirrors. The DDP match is a miracle Page got out of his ass because he was good at those sort of things. Raven and the Flock got a good match out of him by making him look like a total monster. But Goldberg really wasn't much of a worker, Warrior in his prime was much better. But Goldie was green as fuck, so maybe with time he would have gotten better. Anyway, the Goldberg analogy, bad.

Good point. It was also the first time Hulk slammed Andre. And the first time anyone slammed Andre.

This 93000 people or not talk is well and good, but the main issue no seem to talk about here is all about Andre weighing 700 pounds or not. Hulk says it's true.

Well, I stopped watching a decade ago. Got to watch some matches for the GWE poll at SC, and batch an eye at WM every year or so, but I mostly stopped watching because I can't stand modern WWE style. I'll watch WM this year with an open eye, and mostly to see the Rock.

Now that the career spipulation is out, what's the point of it being the biggest match of the show, seriously. If HHH beats Taker, huge deal. If Taker beats HHH, so what ?