El-P

Bret had a series of good matches with Luger too during the same period. He was on fire at this time as heel US champion. Great promos, super solid TV matches with Luger and a great match with DDP. I was surprised how great Bret was during that period when I rewatched WCW98 recently. Luger had joined the face groupe of nWo Wolfpack a few months before. Now that Nash reunited with teh rest of nWo, Luger just followed, but I guess since he had stayed a face all along despite wearing nWo colors, that was a legit heel turn. Really, the FingerPoke was rendered even worse, if that's possible, by the fact it was during that show that Schiavone did the line on Foley. Yeah, that was sure bright when on your own program you're gonna screw your own audience of a big match and piss on one year of booking.

I think he already needed surgery when he worked the Dome Show and had a great match with Inoki. Vader debuted later in the month at the Royal Rumble, then worked the following RAW, and was off the road for a few. So, I guess the timeline is right, unless he got surgery between the Dome Show and the Rumble.

True. Which maybe explains why they where so good. Rockers vs Orient Express from RR91 is still one of the greatest matches ever in WWF.

One of the most overrated team ever. Bunch of big spots thrown without ryhme or reasons. They had a few really good matches against really good teams (the SummerSlam match with the Bodies is one of them), but overall they were fun for bomb throwing matches only (don't get me wrong, I like bomb throwing matches). But most of their most pimped matches are truly overrated (japanese matches, GAB91, Nasty Boys). I'm not down on the Steiners like Dylan is with the Bulldogs, but really, they weren't that good of a team. I have no issue with the notion PG13 would be a better team for instance.

To me the only team who can hold a candle to most great southern wrestling team (Arn & Tully, Rock'n Roll, Fantastics, MX (both versions)) are the Rockers, who were just an amazing team.

Ok, I see your point. But really, looking from the oustide, it did made those things really absurd to me. Yes. Like a few others in the WWF at the time. It was the way the product was marketed. Let's compare Darsow under the Repo Man gimmick, yet another gooball gimmick aimed at kids. It didn't bother me that his offense wasn't anything special, he wasn't supposed to be this big killer guy. He's supposed to be goofy, good for him. The Demos inside the ring just didn't do anything that I bought as very dangerous or ver brutal. I can't agree with that. The Lod's moveset was infinitely richer and more brutal than anything the Demos did. The PoP had the Barbarian killing people, and the Warlord had good pure power spots, and looked like he was made out of granit. The Steiners's offense make the Demos look like two jobbers. Doom were more comparable to the Demos, and I'm not a big fan of them, but still, Simmons was doing some brutal looking shit to his opponents, and both looked really great and imposing.

Agreed it was pointless, but Eddie Gilbert goofying around Philly was more entertaining than Gilbert in the ring to me. I'm still waiting for my Eddie Gilbert epiphany, hasn't happened yet. Not after watching his ECW stuff, not after watching his 80's Memphis stuff. I like the guy, but I don't get why he's revered as much as he is. Great promo. So-so worker thus far. I want to like him more. I just can't find the matches.

Look *and* work on offense. I thought Demos offense looked weak, that's plain and simple. Especially compared to the great spots of the RW, the PoP or later the Steiners or to a lesser extent Doom. Hell, Jim Neidhart looked way more legit scary and dangerous than the Demos.

I totally forgot about that Hall vs Vader match at the following IYH. Yeah, Vader vs Hall would have been perfect for Mania.

Wrong, because I don't think wrestling is sillier on a surface level than soccer or trading stocks to get actual money. I don't ask you to agree on this, but this is what I think. I don't consider pro-wrestling *laughable* on a surface level. You lost me here. I don't even see what you mean. I said Demolition who are supposed to be a killer tag team appear to me as goofy as Brutus Beefcake, who's a goofy guy with tassles who does a bad strut and cut his opponents hair. Well, that's where we disagree already so it makes it hard to understand each other's viewpoint with that basis. What you don't get is that Demos *don't* appear to me as "big tough brawlers". That's the whole point. They look as goofy as Brutus Beefcake to me, as goofy as the "overly excitable guy with tassles and a prop". Since Demos are supposed to be those big tough guys who destroy opponents, something just doesn't click to me because of their goofiness and weak offense. It's simple. Again, I never said they were exceptionally silly, I said they were more goofy than scary, and it just didn't fit what they are supposed to project as a killer tag team. Road Warriors and Powers of Pain were big tough (with goofy paint) guys who killed opponents. Demos were goofy chubby guys with weak looking offense.

Come on Shawn was just being an un professional prick like he was all the time back then. The stiff kick to the head is precious coming from a guy who complained about Vader working too stiff. Shawn was just unreliable and not that good in the ring at this time. 1996 Shawn Michaels is one of the most overrated wrestler ever.

Funny, my opinion of Gilbert is the exact opposite most of the time. Like his promos, don't care much about his matches.

Great story.

I disagree. Thinking too much about anything doesn't make it serious, it makes it absurd most of the time. See, that criticism makes sense. Don't agree with all of it, but I understand it. Cool. That's what I mean. And I don't expect everyone will agree with me. Matt seems to think they were great and makes a pretty good job pimping them. I'm cool with that. Overly excitable guy with tassles is too over the top for wrestling? Are you sure you've actually seen wrestling before? You're not reading what I wrote. I said the Demos, who were supposed to be this killer team, were essentially as goofy as Brutus Beefcake to me. I also said that was probably perfect for the 80's WWF product marketed toward kids. That said, not everyone in WWF was goofy as Brutus or the Demos. Well, most of them were, but that's why the product wasn't that great.

I think I mentionned LCO a few pages back, but nowhere cares about joshi anymore. I would easily put LCO as a top 10 team ever.

Everything was pretty much awesome here, from start to finish, with Lawler great promo, to the Doink match which was really good (I hate that this was Borne's last accomplishment as Doink, the face turn killed the character), to the super stiff brawl with Lawler, to the post match. One of the greatest angle/match the WWF has booked in the 90's. I loved it from day one.

Yep. Perfect was a lame face. And really both are overrated, and them having the same kinda style (overbumping for the face, weak on offense) just made it impossible to have a really good match together. Michaels had a way better serie with Tatanka, and Perfect worked much better with Doink.

Random fact, it was originally Jim Neidhart's theme when he went solo in 1991. That's why your hear those hammer hitting an anvil sounds. Then it was used for the short lived New Foundation with Jim & Owen, then for Owen solo before he got hooked with Koko B Ware. I thought it was lame the Bodies didn't get to have an original theme. Reeked of WCW. I think it was rushed a bit, but as far as action goes, it was clearly one of the best tag of the 90's in the WWF. The Bodies were just great in this, too bad the Steiner didn't give them a little bit more.

That's more of a Japanese corporate culture deal. Whenever one of their companies makes a huge fuckup, the president or CEO often resigns in shame. Even if they had nothing to do with the problem, the idea is that the leader should always be held accountable for any shit that goes down on their watch. See the president of the company that owned the nuclear power plants for a recent example. Yep, happens all the time. This could be big, after the same kinda scandals in sumo last year. This shit doens't fly anymore now that it's getting out there, the repercussions could be severe for the company. I have no idea in what shape they are at this point.

In essence ? No, not really. 99,99999999% of it is pure crap. Is that more laughable than say, a clown, guys fighting to get a ball and taking it to the other side of a stadium, or guys running for 100 meters like idiots, or guys pretending to be spies and saving the world and people watching it happen in a large dark room with a big screen etc etc etc... There's nothing more or less laughable in wrestling per say than in surfing, singing rock'n roll, collecting stamps or fucking doggystyle. Everyone of those things, if you think too much about it, can be seen as "laughable". Life is pretty laughable actually. So, you really don't see the difference between Demolition and the Road Warriors ? Really ? In term of what they projected during matches and interviews, how they worked, what they did with other workers ? Well, you're the one not very observant. In the realm of 80's US pro-wrestling, I find the Demos a bit laughable as "kick-ass monsters" compared to guys like the RW, the PoP (yet another RW clone team) or guys like Doom like I said. Why ? Because of their gimmick, the way it was protrayed and their work in the ring which didn't project the supposed ultra-violence a team named Demolition should project. Jingus mentionned the reaction he had the first time he saw the Demos, well my experience is the opposite with the RW. I didn't know them (no access to NWA in France), and the first time the LOD showed up on WWF TV decapitating a jobber, they made Demos look like two chubby clowns with weak ass stombs and double axhandles in my mind. And watching in retrospect today, the Demos's offense just seems weak. I'm not saying they were a bad team, it would be absurd, but to me the were just that, competent, nothing special, as pretty much as goofy as Brutus Beefcake. Not everything was as goofy as Brutus Beefcake in 80's WWF. Didn't need to be.

Actually, yes. 1/24/96 vs Mitsuya Nagai in RINGS. I know I was stunned when I watched the match and it turned out good. Tabe Tony Halme in RINGS ? Against Mitsuya Nagai ? That's random ! And it was *good* ? Amazing. I liked Borga's match with Jannetty at SummerSlam, but it was more a squash than anything else. I don't remember anything about his matches with Hashimoto.

So is porn. Doesn't mean it's for kids. I don't see how it's obectively laughable. When it's done right there's nothing laughable about it. At its best it's actually a pretty awesome form of entertainement. At its worst, it's hugely embarrasing unless you're part of a sub-culture-sub-group of fans like us who can find entertaining stuff in the worst WCW angle from 2000. I didn't say Demos were an expection, I said they were perfect for the cartoony environement of the 80's WWF, which was in itself mostly marketed towards kids.

Not really. The market for wrestling has never been excusively for kids before Vince Jr. decided that they needed to be a cartoon.

Coming from a guy who said "1.Demolition offense is actually awesome. If you don't like Demo clubbering fuck you.", this is pretty weak. And really, Demos clubbering looked weak. It wasn't exactly the Road Warriors taking your head off, the Steiners throwing you around, the Moondogs stuffing your brain with objects, The Barbarian squashing your nose with a big boot, Doom beating the crap out of you ou the Sheeperders making you bleed. Their interviews were goofy as hell, they didn't look that menacing. Was that a good gimmick for the cartonny 80's WWF, yes that was. But really, they are the John Cena's of tag team, once you're above 12 years old, Demolition's gimmick is a bit laughable.

Well, I must admit, you're making a really good job at pimping them.