MJH

On Bret Hart's return it's HHH who does a possum spot? I thought Hunter's match was fine but I like him more than most. I knew the finish half way through it was total formula for him. Playing possum on one of the guy's two finishes is a bit... but they killed enough time between and they saved the Razor's Edge. I actually think HHH should've gone over. Now I realise WWE isn't All Japan but Seamus not being able to beat Hunter now; assuming he does down the road and is focused on it, and wins clean, it puts him over far more than a mid-card win. HHH hardly shit on the guy and the commentators were putting him over so I'm fine with what they did. MitB was what it was. I don't think TLC I can be beat in that setting so at least they toned it down. Surprised Shelton didn't do something though. Vickie Guerrero is awesome. She gets a bigger reaction than every other diva combined, and when they screw up the finish she just keeps splatting Kelly. Awesome. Cena/Batista was fine, good even, but it wasn't the big epic that the two biggest stars of this generation should have. I preferred the SummerSlam match actually. Bret/Vince was just... I mean, fuck. Taker/Shawn was great for what it was. I actually think their match last year was more of a conscious epic... what with the "do stuff, reset (dives), finishes" whereas at least this had somewhat of a more natural progression and a great, great finish. I was disappointed Rey and Punk was so short... but... assuming this feud continues (and it should it's been great) then using this match as a preview of what's to come down the road is fine with me. The Havoc DDT wasn't the worst it's been botched and everything else (especially the quebrada->GTS) was great. Am I the only one who thought Konnan rather than Avatar? Overall I found the show fun. It wasn't the best Wrestle Mania ever, but it was a good show that left me satisfied all things considered and I'm fine with that.

I have nothing against a Falcon Arrow to the floor as a spot if the guys are willing to do it... but I think as a wrestler if you're going to take that spot then you want to make it important. Kobashi built his matches with Misawa around the Tiger Driver off the apron and the Tiger Suplex off the ramp. KENTA/Davey leading upto the Falcon Arrow is an even back-and-forth match where they mirror each other a lot. The Falcon Arrow hits and you think, OK, they've set themselves up as even if not identical... this is that big decisive spot. You accept with it being ROH and them being juniors that they're not going to do the carefully planned dual control segments made to "mirror" each other (like Misawa/Kobashi 10/97 or even Cena/Batista a few SummerSlams ago)... but then Davey just no-sells it and dominates the run to the finish. Davey pushes KENTA (his - ex? - mentor) to the limit of bringing out his ace in the hole after proving he was on the same level and loses but looks mega-strong. In their return match whenever that was planned to come, he slowly is able to actually make a comeback after it (like Kobashi in '03) and show that he is now the better of the two (in ROH). I realise in theory him coming back from it in this match makes him look strong in losing but... what the fuck do they need to do now as a "keep Davey down" spot? Off the top rope to the floor Falcon Arrow? You'd think after all the years he's spent watching Kobashi that KENTA would know how to maximise the drama and story of such a big spot.

The Lawler/Race match, assuming it's the (1977?) one on youtube... is basically Harley's hour routine. So naturally it has its strengths but its a match he was basically working around the loop with any decently talented babyface during his title run. For all his strengths Lawler wasn't cut out for a 60-minute match, I don't think, his style and work in general was just so limited.

They'd have to be able to effectively lay out a match and tell a story first. Still... at least Davey/Aries didn't feature, essentially, twenty minutes building to a Falcon Arrow off the apron only for Davey to no-sell that like in the match he did with KENTA. But Davey/KENTA did keep their pace better and had the crowd far more enthusiastic about what they were doing. And I'd take a strong 20 minute match with a shitty final 3 than a boring 50 minute match.

I'm fine watching Davey do his shit generally... I don't think he's much cop at telling a story or structuring a match and his sellings often y'know... but I can sit back and watch him do crazy shit at a fast pace for 20/30 minutes and be entertained fine enough. I watched this last night though and it felt incredibly flat. Aries' RETARDED promo before the match didn't help any, either. If you're not going to tell a story, and the basis of the match is in its action and spots, then you have to keep it coming at a quick pace otherwise it doesn't work. There was some occasional nice stuff but in the main... this was completely "meh" for me. I did rather enjoy Wolves vs. Bryan/Tyler's 45:00 draw. The ROH guys aren't good storytellers and moreoften than not their adament refusal to be like WWE means they don't have the same basic shine/heat/finish a to b to c logic that even your bargain basement WWE match tends to have. They're seemingly afraid to work control segments and want things always back and forth to keep it "entertaining" or whatever their logic behind it is. You even had Davey come straight back from a Falcon Arrow off the apron against KENTA (which as the "moment Davey was done" spot would've worked great with how the match had been put together up until that point) for what reason I can't put together. The tag match though had a much stronger concerted effort at making sense and being structured. You had some nice, older-influenced babyface shine spots, and a run of the mill "southern" tag with Bryan on the hot tag, which then morphed via Tyler taking a big table bump into Bryan playing Ricky Morton with a leg injury and no Gibson to tag. Eddie Edwards seems to stooge a fair bit more than most in ROH that I'm familiar with so if it's his influence in older simple storytelling then I'm looking for some singles work from him because Davey's clearly a KENTA-style "go go go" guy...

The guys over at WrestlingKO published a list of their Top 100 Wrestlers for 2009 and one of the points raised (amongst many it must be said - these lists always bring forth a myriad of opinion) was Shawn Michaels' abscence (on a list that featured, amongst others, Jerry Lawler [68], Bill Dundee [67] and, of course, Mark Henry [36]). Now, of course, as one of the seemingly few Shawn fans around on the internet (and, no, I don't think he's remotely in discussion for "Best Ever") it's par for the course, he's in that "Holy Trinity" of internet hate with HHH and Kurt Angle. Naturally I think it's a ludicrous suggestion that there're 100 better wrestlers working in the world right now who, all things considered, are better at it than Shawn. But one of the reasons raised, aside from the usual knocks on the guy that we've heard a million times before, was he "coasts" most Monday nights on Raw. As it happens I would agree with that, although I'd suffix it by saying that Shawn sleepwalking through "face in peril" is as good as most guys doing it at their best, and between adding his age into the equation for sympathy which he's used effectively for a couple of years, I'd wager he still is one of the best at it. As for the knock on coasting itself, I mean, in Shawn's case he's in his mid-forties, already having came out of his initial retirement eight years ago, being all set to've retired two years ago, and been physically broken down for years. God knows how many painkillers he takes before an average match, never mind the upcoming WrestleMania main event with Undertaker (whose in a similar situation himself). I have absolutely no problem with him coasting, indeed I have no problem with any wrestler coasting, certainly when they're good enough doing so to have a solid enough match. "Jumbo Was Lazy" is a famous debate where no one seemed to but in and say "so what?". Now if we take 1991 as an example, and obviously I realise the argument raised by Meltzer dated back earlier, working a house show six man w/Taue & Ogawa against Misawa, Kawada and Kikuchi. First of all he doesn't really need to do much anyway, and second of all he'd been wrestling at that point a few years shy of twenty, the majority of which as a main eventer which meant him working longer, and working many more big matches, than most. The style hadn't taken its toll on an early-forties Jumbo that, say, Kobashi's had taken on him by the time he reached that age, but if all wrestlers have a set x amount of bumps they can take in their career, I'd personally see Jumbo save them for the big matches, title matches, the inevitable (before his illness of course) big changing of the guard to Misawa. Whether Jumbo was lazy or not means very little to me because when it came time to deliver, he delivered. Would you really sooner see your NFL team bust their ass for 16 regular season games, finish in a high seed, but be too worn out and hurt to capitalise on it and get knocked out in their first playoff game? Wrestling's littered with guys who worked too hard 24/7 (and it's an admirable and positive trait, I'm not diminishing the effort whatsoever) and cut their careers short. Misawa died in the ring, should've retired years ago, but if we take Kobashi as the example (and he's still going albeit not totally). Watch the first month of 1993's TV for All Japan. He works a set-up tag opposite Taue (it might be two), to set-up a singles match with Taue which'll determine (and in turn set up) the #1 contender for Misawa's TC at the February Budokan. In that initial tag match, setting-up the set-up match, he takes a fucking powerbomb on exposed concrete. Even Foley saved that for a months-off injury angle. I'm not diminishing the effort - Kobashi's a slam-dunk pick for my personal Top 5 All-Time at least - but God... Perhaps it's hypocritical of me, getting excited about Shawn/Taker knowing how tough it's going to be on them physically in their state, but you can defend that on the grounds of it being a WrestleMania main event (and it should go on last), that'll make a lot of money for both guys (it might even be Shawn's retirement match). But I certainly don't want to see the guy taking big bumps every week on TV. I'm perfectly OK with the WWE implementing a "safer" level of working, the scheduling they have is crazy enough to begin with. I'm perfectly OK with wrestlers taking it easy when they can, and saving their bodies for the bigger shows and prolonging their careers. I know in their position I'd try and get away with as much matwork as possible, taking rolling bumps/front bumps when possible as opposed to flat back ones, and I'd take a longer career for myself over being unable to walk without assistance from middle-age.

I think there's a chance it'll come out eventually. Crude as it may sound but he'd probably gathered together anything he'd need to gather together to do it before Doc passed. I really liked the Brisco one, mind, and I'm much more aware of Doc's career than I was of Jack's so - and Doc's one of my favourites - I'd've taken that one as a primary focus, I mean I'm in awe of how much writing Dave gets out in a week as it is, whatever you think of the guy. Doc really deserves a better biography than his own book though, that was ugly.

I've often thought the greatest barometer for how good or bad a wrestler is isn't necessarily how good a match they can have when they go all out, but rather how good a match they can have on auto-pilot. Watching Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue/Omori (January '94) last night - a 25/+ six-man that's available on Ditch's site, it's really staggering how strong a match it was considering how much stuff they left in the bag and how casual they seemed to work. This is about as far removed from a Budokan epic as an All Japan main event could be in 1994 - ie, no big moves - but the roles everyone had, the story, how well everything was laid out is/was astounding. It's actually the babyfaces who have the main controlling segment of the match, and Omori only gets out of that when Taue interferes and basically "hot tags" himself. They've set up the babyfaces as favourites, and then the heels start turning on the tricks, interfering constantly as soon as any of the faces show any sign of momentum. Omori does just about the only thing he could do (hold Akiyama at ringside), whilst Kawada (again with some help from Taue) keep Misawa out of the way long enough for Taue to nodowa Kobashi into oblivion. Aside from one really great near fall when Taue powerbombs Kobashi in stereo with Kawada hitting one on Misawa, this is closer to Jumbo-era for "work". They keep the action coming, of course, but there's no big key spots, no bumps a guy'd really feel the morning after; a match they could've worked the entire tour. I'm not one for star ratings but I figure this is up around that 4-mark, and basically a house show match. ... In lieu of Bryan Danielson's debut in the WWE I watched a match of his against KENTA from ROH "Driven" in 2007. I wasn't the biggest fan of their first ROH match - I think both are action guys as opposed to story guys, generally speaking, albeit in different moulds - but I got what they were going for. This one, I can;t say I really understood all that well. It was essentially back-and-forth (you kind of know ahead of time there won't be any controlling segments of significant length) but I guess Bryan was getting the better of it. They do a big apron spot where KENTA eats a belly-to-belly to the floor but it doesn't really seem to make a great deal of difference to what they were doing (unlike, say, Misawa/Kobashi in '98 and '03 where the matches are built around them). The finish is hot; I guess no-selling each other's finishers until KENTA lands the GTS might irk some but in an ROH indy setting I get that. I don't know I mean I'm fans of both guys, the execution was strong throughout as you would expect, and the crowd loved it; but whereas KENTA vs. Nakajima were matches I think really only those two guys could've worked in the world, and whereas Marufuji/Devitt worked the matches I wanted to see from them, Bryan/KENTA as a pairing I feel had a better match in them, a more cohesive match, than what they did. I actually dug Bryan against Nakajima from ROH because, to as much of an extent as I could expect, they actually did a veteran/rookie dynamic. Bryan controlled early, Nakajima found an opening working Bryan's knee (he was wearing a support) a through a combination of that and 'Jima's kicks was able to push Bryan pretty far, but not to his limit and Bryan won pretty decisively. It gets a bit too back-and-forth, I thought, around the third quarter or so but all things considered I liked it. I actually recall Chris Hero against KENTA a few months back fonder than Bryan/KENTA, but I guess that's expectations and what they do to your perceptions of a match. ... Modern CMLL has its detractors amongst a lot of hardened lucha fans. I'm kind of, well whereas I would certainly consider myself a Lucha fan, I'm not the ardent follower that Ohtani's Jacket is, say. So when someone started capping the CMLL show that's started airing on The Fight Network in Canada I thought I'd give it a shot. Now, first of all, the English (and they're English, well, lead is English and #2 is Irish) commentators they've dubbed in are awful. I'd call them Eurosport commentators but people outside of the UK wouldn't get the reference whereas those who are would know right away. Anyway, show #1 had a main event where Mistico, Volador Jr and Sombra took on Averno, Mephisto and Ephesto. The technicos were spectacular and it made me want to see the tag titles match from the second show, Volador Jr and Sombra challenging Averno and Mephisto. I thought it was a great set-up match with such casual grace and athleticism few people in the world could match. Now as I read about the second match before watching it I found it it was a fairly contentious one amongst fans. Some likened it to TNA's X-Division (which I understand insomuch as a fair portion is worked at a fast pace with lots of athletic spots) but, personally, I enjoyed it. It was overlong, perhaps, though not greatly, and the finish was obvious as soon as Sombra went down, really, we've seen the story told a million times; but not so unlike the HIAC match DX had with Legacy a few months back (which I enjoyed too) it's something that always works. Couple that with a foundation of strong action and I'm perfectly contented with what they did. I understand (and in a lot of cases agree with) the complaints people might have about CMLL in relation to Lucha of, say, twenty years ago; and it's the same deal with the US right now and WWE's "hyper-controlled, corporate wrestling". But good talent can work within that effectively (obvious or otherwise I'll defend WWE as putting on good matches fairly regularly and having some of the best wrestlers in the world on their roster). Wrestling isn't as saturated with all-time talent right now as it was fifteen or twenty years ago, it's just something we have to accept as fans. Sometimes a lot of current wrestlers confuse me, especially outside the WWE (whose simple-only approach at least means it's easy to digest as a story). These four guys didn't at all, and the work was graceful, well-executed, and at times spectacular. Sombra spent 10/15-minutes literally lying motionless clutching his arm on the ramp and did nothing until the finish after his missed dive/"injury". I'm not going to proclaim this, or the set up tag as MOTYC-level stuff (even now) but if the CMLL main event regularly delivers to the level of the first two shows (as aired on TFN anyway) then I'm happy to follow the product (albeit on the year-long delay).

Because if Daniel Bryan fails then Bryan Danielson doesn't have enough name recognition on the indy circuit...

I watch the WWE because it's easy to follow on TV. I can't say I'm all that regularly gripped by it, but they're doing a good job at the mo' heading towards Mania, and the PPVs that we do have to pay for over here are only £15 so me and my brother split them alternately. I'm up into the early hours of the morning anyway most nights so it's no big deal for Raw/PPVs. I don't really follow Mexico much, I'd sooner watch older Lucha and I'm only half way through Will's Santo set so when I do feel the inclination for that I go to the DVD rather than the stuff OJ follows though I try and catch the stuff he raves about and his blog's great for that. Current Joshi I don't really follow either, I'm trying to build up my Zenjo Classics and the run upto the interpromotional era, getting every tape from mid/late-90 onwards. A couple a month, maybe, depending. Downloads make it much easier, that can't be said enough, and the people who cap matches religiously do everyone such a great favour. I like All Japan (comparatively less actually airs so it's easier to follow) and the matches people rave about over at DVDVR or wherever for New Japan, NOAH, DG, I tend to grab, and whilst I'm not a massive Indy fan if something gets a lot of hype from ROH and I can find it online then I'll give it a spin. As far as actual NEWS goes... nothing much there, I'll admit. I couldn't tell you off-hand the champions in most places... but I like to follow what I can. God bless the internet and 1MB/sec downloads. I remember old ECW clips 12 years ago taking as long to download than 40-minute great quality matches do now.

Better late than never... FAVOURITE WORKERS: Kobashi, KENTA, Eddy, Benoit, Austin, Jericho, Rey, Undertaker. FAVOURITE PROMOTIONS: WWF/E have had a fairly consistent product, certainly a much improved on in the ring, and a strong one at that early in the decade. NOAH, especially during Kobashi's run, had a lot of great epic main events and in KENTA/company some very spectacular junior matches which is one strength it has over the former All Japan. Toryumon/Dragon Gate, is always a fun, entertaining product short of over-saturating yourself on it. AJPW, in fairness to Mutoh, have had a much improved second half of the decade than one would've expected before. In Suwama and others (and I like Seiya Sanada from the bits and pieces I've seen in particular) they've got a nice base for the future and the Carnival final of '08 was one of the best moments of the decade; one of the strongest Korakuen Hall reactions I've recalled in recent years. FAVOURITE MATCHES: Kobashi vs. Misawa, Akiyama, Sasaki (you know which ones). KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi, Kobashi/Go (/KENTA) vs. Sasaki/Nakajima. Austin/Rock, WM17. Rock/Jericho, No Mercy 01. Benoit/Austin, Smackdown. Eddy/Lesnar, NWO 04. Eddy/Rey, Smackdown 6/05. Toryumon 4-Way Trios, August '03. There's quite a few in fairness, more than I initially thought. BEST THING ABOUT THIS DECADE: Wrestling online, and the convenience and improved download speeds and such like too. Nothing like a 300MB match, great quality, good length, in a matter of 2 or 3 minutes. WORST THING ABOUT THIS DECADE: Deaths... In fairness the '90s were always going to be such a hard act to follow in the ring. But looking at the state of Joshi in particular as well as the business in Japan in general (doing OK but when 25,000 for NJ in the dome is considered a success, I mean comparatively speaking)... WWF/E has been much improved this decade (although all the "WWE Universe" and general corporisation does leave a bitter taste; overall the '90s with two major companies (TNA is fucking atrocious really, you feel sorry for anyone with genuine talent stuck there) in particular... I don't know.

I've recently started to gradually collect all AJW releases from mid-1990 through to the Dream Slam interpromotional era. I had a fair few to begin with; but prior to the summer of 1992 they were very sporadically spaced between events and, as I guess would be obvious, the idea is to see and plot the development of the top talent of that era; Hokuto, Aja, Toyota, Kyoko, Yamada... I mean as a twenty-three year old it's actually rather daunting to think of the ages of those girls at that time. Even Bull Nakano, who was an "over the hill veteran" by the time she worked WWF in 1994, was still only 26 having been born in 1968, albeit an eleven-year veteran. Now of course, with its hierarchal structures Puroresu has always embraced rookies; the crowd accept that they won't be too good, they'll miss spots, they'll over-reach, they'll work too fast for their own good... but will eventually (assuming they grow to become a good talent as all the aforementioned did and countless others; not to mention men too) develop past that. But it was really watching Takako Inoue against Mariko Yoshida from late '91 that really put the whole thing into perspective for me. Maybe you've had those matches yourself, where something just happens to you as a viewer and you have a form of epiphany during the course of the match. The match, for the record, is from the Grand Prix Final '91, August 18th, and for the AJ Title. I actually enjoyed the show as a whole although some of the matches felt slightly abridged; Kyoko and Manami were already showing signs of their great chemistry sprinting together, Bison Kimura and Aja Kong had a very focused match which stands out for the era for being so, and I seem to recall even the opener of all matches having far more spice and intensity to it than you'd expect. But anyway, the match is a mess. Well... it's structured to a degree, Yoshida targetted the back IIRC, and the match swung totally on a missed dive from her which given their youthfulness and exurberance was a very fitting conclusion. I just realised though; both women were 21 years old, they debuted on the same show together in October of 1988, so were approaching their third anniversary of being wrestlers, and having a messy match where they scrap over everything and fly about the ring far too fast for their own good... was the totally right match for them to have. In other places, other countries, wrestlers making their debuts, or wrestlers as rookies (outside of pushes as a "super rookie"), they're expected to wrestle as fully fledged professionals from the start. Naturally, they don't do it particularly well; they're green and inexperienced and lack the poise and control that more experienced talents have. They look poor in comparison, and the audience, aside from obviously being able to say so-and-so (veteran) looks mid-40s whereas so-and-so (rookie) looks about 20, are judging them at the same level. One of the good things about British wrestling in the past was they would, too, embrace the youth of a Davey Boy Smith, say, who I have on tape as a fifteen year old wrestling a seventeen year old Bernie Wright (IIRC), a match that's very repetitive and not as polished as Jim Breaks, Johnny Saint, Marc Rocco or whomever... but the crowd can get behind them because they're presented as juniors, as rookies, as young... now it's apparent that they're young just by looking at them, like I said, but by average most wrestlers debut in their early 20s when they're somewhat more physically developed and may look older. If you embrace the youthfulness, though, recognise their inexperience and present them to the crowd as people learning their craft as opposed to treating them no different to vastly more experienced veterans, you give the crowd another, and very strong, reason to care for them. Crowds will always give young guys a broader scope and bigger room for error, if they're presented as the young guys/gals that they are. And in time it pays off when people get to watch them grow. Even in the WWF/E, one argument people always made for Bret and Shawn was how the crowd could invest in them more having watched them develop from young talents (much moreso in Shawn's case who started with the company at 21 I believe) into seasoned, very talented wrestlers. It's the same with Edge and Christian, Matt and Jeff Hardy. Look at how over Mikey Whipwreck got in ECW without hitting any offensive move for months. Their journey resonates with people and nothing helps an audience associate with anyone, be it in wrestling, acting, music or what have you, than feeling they too have grown up with them.

Paul Heyman made (mainstream US) wrestling grow up goes the thought, but I don't think it ever did. The "Attitude" era wasn't grown-up at all. It was for an older audience than "The New Generation" era and the Hogan era, sure, but if those previous eras were "childish" then 98-01 was, at most, adolescent. Realistically the next logical step was to become more adult; more intelligent. They can give Chris Jericho every Backlundword under the sun to say in his promos (without as best I can recall actually going into depth on why the audience are) but there's nothing clever about that, a half-decent thesaurus is all you'd need. Maybe wrestling has got to the point where it's been known as benign and unintelligent for so long, so childish, crass or whatever else that your "general audience" will only accept such. You've diluted them to such an extent where anything that would require the audience to think about something, they'd shut off. Either way I'd like to see some attempts at something a tad more intelligent than what we've had. Take stereotypes and turn them on their head. We know Vince likes satire... no reason why that can't be half-decent, clever satire as opposed to dumb and stupid shit. A big story in the British papers over the last few days has been a professional football (/soccer) player punching a girl in a club and going to jail. Naturally he's been demonised in the press. He has various prior convictions, he's "overpaid" (ie in relation to the national average rather than his share of the money in his profession); just about everyone who I've tried to play Devil's Advocate to has wondered why I'd think otherwise than the aforementioned (the reality being I'm totally apathetic and merely trying to make the conversation less mundane in work). But it got me thinking... every "man fights woman" scenario is based on sexism. That is, "women should be in the kitchen and the bedroom". Why not run the angle as you normally would, the heel protagonist is attacking women, only have him as a die-hard feminist who truly believes in equality across every domain and (from his perspective) portray the crowd as the bad guys for being "sexist" towards the woman because they wouldn't be half as objectioned if it was men he was beating up. Segueing to other ideas... I can't help but think that an atheist gimmick would go down a treat in heavilly-religious areas. Now initially you think that's too far for cheap heat... only instead you have him (or her) make the intelligensia's argument for atheism and take your cues from "The God Delusion" or something similar. Maybe have an Anti-(home country) heel whose making genuine and fair points on that particularly countries history and/or culture (albeit from what we'd call a heelish stand-point). I guess that's similar to what Bret morphed into in 1997, but really go to school on it. Or a guy who turns the "family-friendly morality tale" nature of wrestling onto the crowd. You can casually drop a (planned) accidental "fuck" into a promo. Then when you get in trouble... go after the censors and morph it into a rant on over-protective parenting, how "any genuinely considerate parent would bring their children up to speed with the real way the world works and not try and comfort them with silly morality tales that makes the final, sudden realisation for them when they grow up all the more difficult". Or something. My personal favourite from a while ago was actually a reverse Dusty Rhodes. Whereby the "working class hero" from humble beginnings doesn't care for the audience, isn't trying to inspire anyone, his journey to that point has reared him cold and focused solely on himself, hates the crowds affection for him because their own inability to have made anything with their lives despite being born into far less humble beginnings than he/she was makes him/her sick. Indeed, you can morph into the previous one about families from the same subject. Now I'm hardly saying these are particularly clever or anything (I'm not a professional television writer so go figure) but I'd like heels who have strong, genuine, thought-out points behind their rants. They might even engineer some genuine, real-life hatred. None of this "it's all a show (let's play along)" fan heat like wrestling meets Brecht or something. God I hate that. Anyway...

Sixty-Minute Sprints On KENTA/Marufuji and Toyota/Kyoko... I'm a huge Manami (and Kyoko as much, for that matter) fan, and certainly out of the current crop of wrestlers KENTA's one of my favourites; but really neither are cut out for going 60:00. Whereas in the days of Lou Thesz and Dory Funk when most matches were at a pace you could keep for sixty, Manami and KENTA are two people whose strength lies in their great athleticism, creativity, speed... generally the qualities for super "spot" wrestling more than anything else. We all know the criticisms littered against Toyota through the years, but the two things she does (did) well she does (did) better than anyone. KENTA's not a "male Toyota" but they have more in common to me than they have in contrast (KENTA's crisp as anything but Toyota was incredibly sympathetic are probably the two biggest). But like with Toyota, I actually just want to see KENTA sprint. I don't know if he and Nakajima, or Marufuji, or whomever have it in them to tell the stories and structure the matches that Misawa, Kobashi and Kawada did (certainly the NOAH guys should by virtue of osmosis but there's been little real sign throughout matches) but if he's content to entertain by style then I'm happy to let him do his thing because, regardless of whatever detriments anyone might see in him, the guy is a fantastic talent who can GO. Anyway, I figured KENTA/Marufuji was the closest modern equivalent to Toyota/Kyoko's hour draw, and so I finally got around to watching it last night. Truth be told, they're not really worked similarly at all, but they make a nice comparison. As people reading this (assuming anyone does) will know, Manami and Kyoko basically tried to work their regular match (read: a 25-minute sprint) for the hour. They essentially put a brick on the accelerator and hoped the gas wouldn't run out. It did, and the match fell apart around the fifty-minute mark; but I can't imagine anyone matching the first fifty. In terms of "giving it all out there" (or however older wrestlers generally phrase it), I can't think of a stronger pure effort from two wrestlers ever. It puts whatever those guys are/were talking about to complete shame. On merit, there were some stronger matches that should've polled ahead in the 1995 WON Awards but it's a unique match that only the most cynical of people would take a crap on. Whether KENTA/Marufuji have seen that match and tried to learn from it, I can't say, although I'd be surprised if they were completely ignorant of it. Either way, they wrestled the match as if having learned from Toyota and Inoue's downfall. Read: they paced themselves. All being told, I doubt KENTA/Fuji could have worked their match for sixty the way Manami and Kyoko did. The guys' style is more intricate, more counter-based, that to simply have an hour's worth of that material memorised (ignoring the stamina issue) would seem to me impossible. But what they did by going about things this way (which on paper sounds the smarter option of the two without question) "exposed", for lack of a better term, their weaknesses. They maintained their general back-and-forth structure which meant that if we were to segment the match, parts that could've killed time effectively weren't really used to the full (which in a match of this length is one of the most imperative aspects in putting it together). The transitions between the various "control segments" tended to be good and effective, but Marufuji could've easilly taken his five-minute segment working KENTA's knee to 10 or 12. Ditto KENTA's regular time-filling "rib work" section. Yes, we know it's not going to "carry through" right to the finish, but it doesn't necesarilly have to. If the match is "action first" (and 95%+ of juniors stuff is and always has been) then it only has to work in that moment and be gradually dropped (ie sold for the immediate aftermath of a few minutes and gradually dropped) as opposed to immediately rendered a waste. But in the pantheon of "junior time fillers" this match overall was weak. They'd work in the odd big spot (sometimes so out-of-the-blue and out-of-rhythm so as to shock you) but aside from the planned spots and sequences that were littered about, the only real effort was in the creativity. Now I'm not the biggest Marufuji fan, but he's unquestionably a super athlete with a very creative mind. There's always the odd few spots in his big matches that I've never seen before. The problem arises, against a guy like KENTA, that it often seems superfluous. KENTA flies so he can hit you from a greater height. Marufuji flies so he can add in a twist or spin before hitting you. And when it's Marufuji whose offense seems to dominate the match (as opposed to KENTA in the ass-kicker role) it doesn't do them many favours. Comparing the matches offensively, Kyoko was more of the ass kicker, and that role suited her against Manami. She had offensive variety and pacing that worked against Toyota without making herself look limited (an achievement unto itself) but also their characters were much more strongly developed. KENTA's biggest weakness for me is, as mentioned at the start, an inability to generate much in the way of sympathy (especially against juniors). Now that's not to say they didn't have the crowd, because both guys are over, they gave the guys the time, and when KENTA was getting battered down the stretch the crowd were chanting his name, but it's hard to imagine transporting him back to 1992 to replace Kikuchi and it working despite, all things considered, KENTA being the more talented worker. If we say they're the Jr Misawa and Kawada, KENTA is clearly Kawada; but Kawada the focused ass-kicker, Kawada with the chip on his shoulder, Kawada the cold hearted heel, as opposed to Kawada the "sympathetic loser". The upside to the NOAH match lies in the obvious strengths of the guys involved; the athleticism, it's creative, there's a lot of great spots, and down the stretch they've conserved themselves enough to finish with as much aplomb as any 60:00 singles match. But whilst Manami/Kyoko fell apart down the stretch to dampen to lasting effect somewhat, it remains the greater achievement (or near-achievement) and a superior match overall. KENTA/Marufuji, in a sixty minute match, I'm not sure could've had a better match than they did. If Kyoko and Manami had an extra 10-minutes of gas in the tank it's a legendary match that as is stands unique and, I guess, the nearest "singles" equivalent to what the Dream Rush main event is/was. As loathed as the end result might be in some quarters I'd love to see KENTA and Nakajima try and match it.

Billy Riley's a no brainer, even if the local council (I presume it was them) saw no long-term value in keeping the original Snake Pit, it's the greatest landmark for wrestling in Britain. I was genuinely shocked to see him not included already. McManus is the best overall pick, really, and certainly Kent Walton as "the voice" of one of the most popular wrestling shows ever for that length of time should be in. Rocco is 50/50 but I'd lean towards him going in. He was THE worker of his generation in Britain and a strong "second-tier" draw/star. If the WON is taking the British scene seriously, he's to Britain what Race, Flair, the Funks, Jack Brisco were... and on a national level as big a star as all of those bar Flair. Behind Walton, Daddy, Haystacks, McManus, Pallo and Nagasaki... "Rollerball Rocco" comes up more than anyone bar those in recollections I've heard of people, fans, of that time. George Kidd's like the smaller junior version of Bert Assirati. If Assirati's in (and should be from what I know), I see little argument against Kidd. Johnny Saint's a lesser, junior British version of Flair (rep). He was unquestionably very good, and certainly the star of the lower weight classes, but it does get very samey rather quickly for me. I prefer to watch Grey or Breaks BUT of those three Kenny mentioned, Saint is the best candidate. For a full breakdown I'd say John Lister's the guy to go to but Kenny knows his shit.

The thing with Big Daddy is... whilst on paper he has to go in, he's also a laughing stock. I recall John's initial pimping of Backlund, talking about how he's recalled in NYC as "embarassing". Big Daddy is that to the infinite degree. He's recalled "fondly" for how shit he was. It's either the most inexplicable thing I've ever seen in wrestling or proof positive that if you push anyone hard enough he'll get over as a star. Probably both. The old British era had a lot of poor workers, with Daddy being one of if not the worst. It's not "remember wrestling on ITV? Daddy and Haystacks, those were the days" more "remember wrestling on ITV? Daddy and Haystacks, what were we thinking!?" laughing at how something so bad was so popular. Rocco was THE worker of his era in Britain. I'm not saying he was the best outright - he certainly had a case - but the first name on everyone's tongue when asked who the guy wass they most respected, besides someone like Les Kellet for his toughness, in terms of wrestling ability, it's ALWAYS Rocco. Always.

FTR, I agree entirely on that final point. And projecting where Ohtani might've rose to, realistically he should've developed more and become the best worker in Japan by 1999/2000... I find myself making a lot of digs towards the juniors recently hmm... But I find myself actually becoming something of an Angle apologist/defender without being a particularly big fan. You could make the comparison to Ohtani but maybe Windham's a better play; a guy who got really good frighteningly quick but didn't live up to the early potential/hype (was it yourself or Frank who ran down maybe at tOA the advantages Jumbo had by comparison given Angle spent his entire development in WWF/E?) and together with a variety of other factors in Angle's case, had it held against him more than he's probably deserved. He's a deluded fuck who should've retired Godknowswhen ago, and it's scary to hear him talk the way his voice seems to have lost all ability for articulation at this point, but he was really good for 3/4 years there. Without the "best in the world/HOF" brigade I think people would be far more accepting and receptive of his upside (plentiful) as opposed to focusing as much as they do on his downside.

I realise you're being... but as overlooked as Kobayashi or Marty Jones or Chavo Sr may pr may not have been, there's not a wrestler in that time frame who'd take their names as recommendations over Dynamite and Sayama. Love it or loathe it they're the legends of that generation. But surely had Dave gone through with Ohtani > Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada that'd be worse hyperboly than anything he's ever written Angle-related unless I've missed him calling Kurt the best ever?

Necro or Brody I've seen maybe half a dozen Necro matches and never in any of them thought he looked more than a backyarder with a high pain threshold kinda like those CZW guys. He just got a cult following. More than any "cult following" in wrestling I don't get Necro *at all* and no, "looking like a backyarder" doesn't sell his gimmick better. Foley sure didn't move around the ring with grace but he always looked trained to me. So even though I'm not much of a Brody fan, I have to go with him. Sid or Kevin Nash Just about everyone got better matches out of Nash than they did Sid. Takada or Fujinami I really like Fujinami but I'd argue Takada as the best New Japan-produced wrestler ever, more than likely, so he gets my vote. Danielson or Dynamite "Dynamite's stuff doesn't hold up in terms of structure and whatever else" is an argument I get, and for the most part generally agree with. But I've never been sold on Bryan as a "story-teller" (or whatever) either. really the best thing about Danielson is his execution, which Dynamite wins and matwork, which Bryan wins.... BUT, the best "mat/chain wrestling" match either was involved in is Dynamite vs. Marty Jones (which Dynamite makes). It's a lot closer than "Oh but Dynamite's stuff doesn't hold up". Certainly Dynamite was more special, spectacular and original. Maybe Rocco was doing a lot of those bumps first but, come on, I like Rocco but Dynamite did those bumps twice as fast and far bigger. Sure, it cost him, and he was an asshole, which has become a point against him as a worker now along with inspiring Benoit, both of which I find embarassing as arguments. If Danielson gets over and becomes a player in the WWE that'll probably swing it, but, I'm favouring Dynamite right now since he had better presence and more "major league" for lack of a better term. Danielson's toured Japan numerous times and I've never seen or heard of him getting over to near the degree Dynamite did, ditto I can't see right now him becoming as popular as the Bulldogs were in the WWF/E. It sounds like a crappy argument to have as the difference, but until I see something that sells me on Danielson as a great story-teller or structure or whatever (the things people argue against Dynamite) I'm taking the guy who did most of Danielson's strengths better than him and always felt a much bigger deal. Don't you think if Dynamtie came around 20 years later (around when Bryan first broke through) he'd similarly be an indy darling? Hansen or Doc ... is a no-brainer as much as I love Doc. Hansen or Han ... isn't quite so straight forward. Hansen's "great resurrgence" of 1993 is overrated to a fair degree. I mean the Kobashi matches are/were fantastic, but they were also perfect opponents and Kenta was fairly elite by that point. Han's only real comparison is Tamura (in which I'd argue Volk as the better and certainly the leader), and within their style they're of a comparable level. I'd take the Hansen/Kobashi matches - as one of the biggest Volk fans around - but how often was Volk in with similarly great wrestlers as opposed to Hansen? Regardless of how much it may or may not swing your vote it's an important part of the argument either way. Hansen vs. Misawa wasn't as good a fit, and Misawa's 9/93 and 7/94 matches with Doc are much better, I'd say, than any he had with Stan. Hansen vs. Jumbo's the same - Jumbo got a better match out of Kerry Von Erich. Sure Hansen has some strong "carries" (going from memory) but so does Han. Han was also more blatantly gifted and natural. The likelihood as I see it is Han was probably better (within the RINGS style) at his peak than Hansen was in All Japan. BUT all that being said, I mean you'd still probably have to take Stan for the obvious variety of reasons like longetivity and having more matches over the course of 2/3 tours than Volk did his entire career being clearly a strong worker for much of it...

I'm not sure about "carrying a broom" I mean at the end of the day it's a ridiculous turn of phrase anyway. Flair could "carry a broom" with his "routine" but that isn't always a good thing. I mean, I love Flair's routine, something like the Terry Taylor match (UWF?) where he's almost on auto-pilot but still working hard, bumping hard, and having a strong match, I could watch his work from the mid-80s all day. But by the same token I can't help but feel disappointed somewhat when he just fits a great worker into one of his routines. To take it back towards Takada, *surely* the Backlund match is a "carry" from Takada? I'm not saying Backlund was bad by any means there, but one of Takada's great strengths for me has always been his maleability (sp?), where he'd go with what the other guy does and pull it back enough to work? I recall a few great "Bob" spots in that match last time I saw it, but certainly Takada as the jockey. I'm struggling to think of any great Takada match where I thought he was the inferior worker, to be honest. Equal, yeah, I think a few guys were relatively equal I mean Yamazaki and Maeda etc... were clearly strong workers in their own right and look pretty great themselves in their various "classic" matches with Takada. Takada "needing" to be carried seems... I mean like I said before if Takada "doesn't show up all the time", that's fine. Maybe he's the "Ultimate Comp Worker". You get those two sets Tabe made and you don't need anything else, and when you do look it's disappointing. I can't recall being disappointed with Takada stuff but it's not out of the question that I might be. Still Takada was pretty great in those "comp" matches AFAIC. --- Volk vs. Fuji... OK me saying Volk isn't a great surprise. I watched the first Tamura match last night just before I put that comparison forward and having worked my way through various Lucha, new "classic" Japan footage from the bigger companies, Joshi and Old US stuff since seeing Han last... he's amazing. The match is ten-minutes and barely lets up a great speed, but it feels complete rather than particularly abbreviated. He gives Tamura openings which Kiyoshi takes with aplomb, and puts them over big. He has the crowd in his palm as much as anyone. The big "oooooh" reactions of expectant dread whenever he'd slowly slither his way into a position to pull one of his submissions out... that's controlling the audience. And of course the matwork itself is glorious in technique. I know the easy case-against, calling him a "spot" worker, but it's the Toyota/Kyoko of matwork sprints is it is. You'd always have the basic story there of a guy who owns on the mat and he'd deliberate downgrade his own striking ability (and of course the forever-weak mid-section) to give them hope. IIRC there's a great carry of Bitsadze Tariel in 1995. Just a blatantly elite worker as much as Kobashi is in a different form. And he pretty much came on the scene a strong worker.

OK. To segue the discussion somewhat as far as grumpy shoot-style guys go: Fujiwara or Volk Han.

Jim Ross . Trying to beat OJ to Kent Walton...

I've always termed fad as "the cool current thing". For me Fujiwara and Lawler fit that description and I always made the point of saying I wasn't calling it without merit, or saying that either guy wasn't very good or anything. "Cautious" is more me being cautious about the fad. Not cautious to join it or speak against it. I've spoken against it. I'll watch a Fujiwara match that is getting a lot of pimping as "great", hoping it's great, realistically expecting it to be good but being better than that would be a pleasant surprise for me. Hence, cautious. And Beach Boys >> Monkees. . But I don't think "trendy" is automatically dismissive. It *is* trendy to argue Lawer as a Top 5 US worker or Fujiwara as the same for Japan. A lot of people have been making the arguement on various boards over the last year or so. Again, I never said it was a hollow idea, just somewhat hyperbolic for me. Both guys are/were good.

Takada as a great worker being "dated" seems... come on. It's one thing to argue Fujiwara as being better than him, but Takada doesn't have to suck all of a sudden for Fujiwara to take his mantle. I honestly have no problem with people arguing Fujiwara over Takada. I mean it's wrestling. So what. So long as you don't start saying ... are a better band than the Beatles and "The Beatles as a great band is an out-of-date idea"... . I just weighed in that I'm not as sold on Fujiwara as some people. I *love* Takada/Yamazaki from May 4th, 1989, it might be my favourite UWF match (although the Backlund and Maeda '88 matches certainly are up there). It's not particularly story driven and I'm sure someone could make the argument that it's ... or what-have-you, but I just watch it and I'm swept away thinking how great both guys look. Given Yamazaki's involved I should hope that's not taken homoerotically but still... I've never seen Fujiwara and been in awe with regards how he moved and just how he looked doing everything. As for saying that I'm wary of the Fujiwara and Lawler surges because they're "fads"... I think that's a justifiable position to keep. I'm not saying it's a hollow fad or comparing it to Mark Henry vs. Shawn, but y'know wrestlers, matches, they have booms and surges. Some stay, some wither away, I prefer to be a bit more cautious with it y'know. I respect people's opinions enough to let them make the arguments, we're all going to disagree on something. John had Flair/HHH's cage match as "creepy", I think it's the second best WWE match for that year and Flair's best match for at least fifteen years. Me and OJ might both love the CMLL Minis '97 classic and the Espanto/Santo matches, but I'm nowhere as keen as he is on Dandy/Casas even though I love both guys, generally. I don't think Fujiwara or Lawler are *bad*, I'm not arguing against these "fads" as being without merit, I just don't think Fujiwara is the best (Japanese) wrestler ever. Nor do I think Takada is, or Jumbo, or Misawa, or a whole hell of a lot of great GREAT wrestlers... Opinions change, certain matches and wrestlers don't age as well as others, I'm not arguing against a change in "consensus", y'know... I look at the DVDVR '90s Matches polls and think "nah" on a lot of it. By the same token just as much of it I still think is awesome. I think the NJ juniors are due a big fall off myself, I don't think much of it ages at the level it's been thought of before. I'm not saying Liger isn't a great wrestler, he clearly is and/or was, I'm just not sure he's Top 10 All Time anymore nor the best junior of his generation (Eddy, Benoit 2nd...). The NJ Heavyweights of the '90s being vastly inferior to the juniors, now that's a bit of a "dated" idea for me.

The HHH/Flair cage match is actually really rather good... easilly his best "old man" match although that doesn't say much, but it's probably the 2nd WWE MOTY for 2005 after Rey/Eddie. Being down to a great performance from Hunter though (possibly career), not one I'd expect to get much love. Old man Flair kissing Maria, now that's fucking creepy. Shit the way he suddenly aged ten years like *snap* is fucking creepy. Like some porn stars vagina suddenly collapsing on her after years of abuse leaving her having to duct tape her labia up for the rest of her life. Too far?