Matt D

Fighting my way through the last part of the WWE section at 2x speed. I won't knock Fray. He's quicker at googling things than you are and that's a skill on the show I guess. Certainly Kris was getting a kick out of the gimmick, but never, ever have someone with a gimmick on again, guys. Or if you really have to, at least just have it be Vandal Drummond as Lucky Pierre?

I'll rewatch next week and break down the narrative. I said I would anyway and life just got in the way.

I actually think one reason I'm higher on it than Phil/Eric relatively is that I watched both feeds at the same time, syncing them up and pausing at the few times one cuts. Some parts of the match are way better on one feed than the other and vice versa and the sound is much better on the cut version. It's worth the bit of extra effort.

I veer from my SC compadres and put the Trauma match higher too.

He was the biggest draw of 2016 though.

It all depends on how well the person crafts the argument and what evidence is used. I'd listen to any argument, ultimately, but it's about openness and receptiveness. Also a track record over time. If Loss wants to make that argument that goes farther than someone who goes around playing a character or what not. I think it's also about nuance of argument. Things aren't black and white. You can argue that Khali is better than Bret, but if you argue that Khali is better at Bret in every aspect and it's a black and white situation, I'm going to be less receptive.

What the hell is this card? It's the least CMLL-y card I've ever seen. It's awesome, though.

I liked Wahoo vs Gary Young too. Young made for a solid stooging heel tempting fate. Wahoo looked like a million bucks in dispatching him in the end. Pretty certain we have most of this card now. This was earlier in the night a helps to give a real sense of the difference between a second match on the card spot and a main event. Can't wait until we get our next Wahoo main event though.

I enjoyed the Guerreros a ton in 2014 (Also Averno/Mephisto/Ephesto) because they were straight up rudos in an age of Ingobernables. With the Guerreros, it's hard not to compare them back to previous versions, however. Euforia holds his own but it's just not the same as some of the guys who came before be it Dragon Rojo, Jr., Atlantis, a younger Bucanero, or even Olimpico in the mid-00s before he lost his mask and brought an element of unusual height and athleticism.

Rhyno getting a tag title run was pretty unexpected.

I'm curious what I'd think about it now. I'll try to rewatch it next week.

This is what I wrote in 2013. I almost assure you I wouldn't feel the same way now (even if I might feel along the same lines): It's an awesome sign of how little confidence I had in my lucha views in 2013 just a few matches in. Now, I'll go and explain at length why I can't stand Volador, Jr.

I sure feel that way about Hansen/Brody vs Mil/Caras

We had a lot of fun, in the moment, with Shane vs Taker this year after 8 hours of Wrestlemania.

I watched a good chunk of Arison in the lead up to GWE and I loved the

The older I get the more I think this is true. I still love 80s wrestling and greatly prefer the method for story telling that was the norm during that error to what we see today. That said, I've argued for some time that there is vastly more quality wrestling available in the modern era than there was in the 80s or the 90s. On top of that I think the 80s benefits heavily from mythologizing certain things. A guy like Chris Hero probably has double the number of great matches on tape as someone like Ricky Steamboat, and his career in the ring is roughly as long, but a lot of people who default rank Steamer higher. I suspect this is due to years of being told that him and Flair had great matches that no will ever see, and the fact that the Steamboat's best stuff stands out more due to the way things were booked in his day (i.e. there was build to the big matches, and things weren't lost in the shuffle due to insane oversaturation). You would have to argue hard to make me think this is not first and foremost footage and then second drawing due to perceived match quality and not heat(and then far, far more the former), at least if we're comparing main eventers. More great wrestling is available. More wrestling is available period. More long, unclipped main event style matches are available by a massive, massive degree.

People have been conditioned to ask the wrong questions with lucha. I think I've been consistent in my view on that throughout the thread. Also, why do you think most AWA tags have a double heat?

And Steven might not be OK with that particular Person B as you described, but I am, so long as they're open to the idea that they may be missing something that others have learned to see.

Person A: I love lucha. Person B: I tried it. It sucks. Person A: I know it can be hard to get into. It took me a lot of matches, and not just the great ones, but so many people I trust enjoyed it that I knew I was personally missing something and I kept at it. It took me a while to understand the narratives and the themes and what was really going on. Person B: I don't have time for that. Other things are more enjoyable. No other sort of wrestling is like that. Person A: Ok, I understand. I'm busy too. Just don't say it sucks. Person B: No, lucha sucks. Not everyone in the thread is Person B obviously but a good many.

I'm biased, but I agree that the direct challenge is Bockwinkel with the new footage we've gotten to sure up a lot of the questions that previously persisted or the glimpses we couldn't be sure of.

You need to take that presumption people like wrestling ironically and to prove points and sincerely fuck off. Is it groupthink if I agree with GOTNW?

Plus Volador is terrible.

Shoot Vince Russo on sight?

The people pushing all or nothing mentalities here are doing no one else any favors, and that's on both sides.

If nothing else, you can learn more personally through your attempt to engage.