Matt D

My final answer is Sam Oliver Bass.

Had Piper done enough yet?

Wait, when in 1998 WCW did guys like Bryan and Punk get a chance to be the focal point of the show?

I didn't state it well. I guess I wanted to put forth the idea that there are certain elements in a match that are easier to attribute to a wrestler than others (which does not mean you can't do it with the others. It's just more effort and subjectivity) and those attributes seem, to me, to be high on the list of what Dave values.

I know that Race was active in the 60s, especially in the tag team with Hennig, but I really associate him with the 1970s and there are things I specifically associate with the 1970s (having been born in 1981), such as Welcome Back Kotter. For 1970s tough guys though, I think of Harley Race and I think of The French Connection, and I think there's a lot of overlap there. There's some between Race and Dirty Harry too, I guess, but definitely more so with Hackman in French Connection. And pfft. I forgot there was an actor/wrestler note and the original post in that is someone saying "I always thought gene hackman could do harley race." I hadn't looked at it til now when I googled the two names together. I just think that was the sort of persona Harley was trying to put forth. Tough, gritty, but not a roughneck idiot. He knew how the world worked and he'd seen a lot of things and there was an element of world-weariness to Harley Race, World Champion. The world was a sick, sour place, and he'd crawled up to the top of the heap because he understood it better than anyone else.

Is a lot of that the idea that Dave thinks unless you're in the ring with someone, you can't know how good they actually are? Even if you watch a thousand matches? EDIT: except for maybe when it comes to Action (and or the elements Dave tends to gravitate towards. Someone flesh this out or call me out as wrong)?

And he's sucked for twenty years. Kane was the first name that came to mind when I thought "If I could get rid of anyone, one single person, who would it be?" Mask, no mask, heel, face, serious, comedic...it doesn't matter. He's done it all & it's all tired at this point. We've seen him shock Shane McMahon's testicles with a car battery, set Jim Ross on fire, use a voice box to tell people to "suck it!", cut a "Kanenites" Hulk Hogan promo, wrestle a technical match with Big Show for some reason, do the Hell No therapy comedy skits & "hug it out." His entire career is ridiculous. He's always just been a second-rate Undertaker at best & an unfunny, lumbering goof at worst. Dude was a royal dentist and fake fake trucker too! Someone should make a bingo card.

Is drawing less of an issue in Japan by default? Would Buddy Rose Portland numbers have been good in Japan?

Race is the Gene Hackman of NWA champs.

No, no. When we talk about Rotunda, we actually mean it. That's not ribbing. (Though I still think Bossman has better WWF output then Teddy. That's not the point). I will admit to loving the IRS tax tips stuff.

I was ribbing you, Parv.

Buddy vs Jay Youngblood - Title - 2/3 Falls - January 2, 1981 And now we're on to 1981. I get the feeling the footage is a bit spottier this year, which is a shame, but as always, I'm glad we have whatever we have. Anyway, after last week, this match has a one hour time limit. Buddy's finally back to the full playboy gimmick, with the robe and a valet "bunny" brushing his hair as Don Owen shakes his head in disbelief in the background. Buddy prays in the corner to start again. I'm curious to see if they go back to the arm or if this is going to be a totally different match. Some avoidance/rope running/chops to begin and then Buddy goes straight back to the armbar. That answers that. He's brutal hammering, kicking and wrenching it. Their timing is pretty good as every time Jay rears back to strike, Buddy gets a kick in. He finally takes him down with a hair pull. Buddy's keeping things interesting by varying things up and cheating liberally with the fingers or the trunks. These two are pretty good at this. Jay's selling broadly and Buddy's grinding down and switching things up. The hope spot cutoff is that sort of hooking drive to the mat which I can't explain well but it's good visually. Buddy does this fairly neat if vaguely improbable reverse short arm scissors that I've never seen done quite like this, but for the most part he's working a hammerlock, and it goes a little long, maybe, but it does get the crowd to chant Indian Power leading to Jay's come back. Buddy goes for that whipping hooking dose-e-do thing for a THIRD cutoff here and Jay sidesteps it. Jay goes for a drop toe-hold and rolls through for a headlock but Buddy ducks it and puts him right back into the hammerlock. One knock about Buddy is that maybe he stooges too much and doesn't come off as a threat but when he does a cutoff like that it really makes him look like an extremely competent force. Youngblood makes it up again, but Buddy kicks him away and goes for a monkey flip. Jay cartwheels out. Buddy goes for the dose-e-do flipping arm thing again but Jay rides it down and immediately hooks on an armlock of his own. The fact he did a cartwheel on the arm that had been worked on for ten minutes was pretty much bullshit. Anyway, Jay's hammering away on Buddy's arm; he clotheslines it and Jay starts hammering again. Then another clothesline over the top rope followed by a slam into the ringpost from outside. The fans are going nuts here so even if the blatant no-selling in the come back is annoying, it's definitely what they want. Novel finish here as Buddy submits in the midst of this barrage, during and endless clubber on the arm. Fans erupt for the end of the fall. Second fall starts with Buddy selling his arm. Jay remembers to sell his too, as both guys try to wake their respective limbs up past the pain. This leads to Buddy stalling to try to walk it off outside. Fans try to count Buddy out but that doesn't work. He comes in, tries to ambush Jay, and gets tossed around the ring for his trouble and ends up back in an arm bar, getting clubbered. Buddy repeatedly goes for the eyes and then finally tosses Youngblood out, giving us a very, very well deserved King of the Mountain just to stop Youngblood from killing him. Buddy slams Jay's arm into the ring post (Buddy on the inside, Jay on the floor) twice and then the shoulder as well. Effective transition. Buddy stomps from the inside out and finally lets Jay in before giving him the Anderson slam. He's back to arm work but doing with a bit more impact than in the first fall. The Indian Power chant rouses Jay. Buddy tries to cut it off and run Jay's shoulder into the turnbuckle, but Jay ducks down and Buddy goes head first into it. Jay tries the same thing but Buddy ducks down for revenge. It's too little too late as Jay's in the midst of a comeback now though and starts the war dance, punching and no-selling away. Jay works back on Buddy's arm, with the endless clubbers and nasty looking wrenches over the top rope. Buddy's selling like a champ and we're basically getting a repeat of the whole match up until now. Clotheslines over the top. Shots into the ringpost. Endless clubbers with Buddy desperately trying to fire back as they flail around the ring. It's pretty compelling stuff. Buddy's selling. I honestly think Jay's winded. The finish is awesome. Buddy is so desperate and pissed and in pain and hopeless that he just, in the midst of the armbar, while getting clubbered, unloads on the only guy he CAN hit, Sandy Barr. Then he starts choking him with his knee while still in the armbar. Big Chief Youngblood (who they say is Jay's dad?) comes out to save Barr and stop this farce. Buddy makes a run for it on the outside with Jay giving chase. He tosses Buddy into the post and runs right into a big Chief chop. The end result here as best as I can tell is that Jay gets the title and Buddy gets a suspension and a trip to Hawaii. Yeah, this was fun stuff but the dropping of the arm selling is just not something you'd see in most other Rose matches from 79 or 80. Jay had all the tools but I'm not sure how well he could put it together at this point. The fans really didn't care though.

You're right, Parv. I agree. Dibiase was such a disappointment as the 80s went on. What squandered potential. You've unearthed something here.

I still think Swagger has a patriotic face run in him. Part of me wants to think that Kofi has a heel run in him too but I have no idea what that would even look like.

Can someone break down the argument that got Saito in? I'm not questioning it. I'm just curious. I've liked what I've seen but I don't know his credentials.

I wonder if they do film house shows for training purposes.

I got excited when I heard Cesaro was coming back. Now I am especially so. It better be on the show. If not, then Tim Evans better sneak in dressed as a chair and get a fancam.

Does someone get a plaque when they get in?

Having looked at the # of new accounts on F4W/WO website in the past, I can tell you that October/November/December were actually the period of lowest # of new accounts in previous years. It's March/April Wrestlemania months that usually bring in the biggest annual timeframe. There's a stat for everything.

Chris Benoit's fucked up brain disagrees. When did Harley Race adviced Benoit to stop doing it ? Around 2000 ? Later ? I've seen mixed results on Harley talking about the headbutt. I'm pretty certain he said it was a move that damaged his chest/back over the years. Whether or not he "regrets inventing it," I don't know.

Why the fuck does Daniel Bryan still do the diving headbutt in 2013 when he absolutely does not have to?

My gut says this would never happen, at least not the "everything" bit, in part because WWE wants to be the entity that tells us what we want to see. They control the horizontal.

Buddy vs Jay Youngblood - 2/3 Falls - Title - Dec 27, 1980 So in the meantime, Wiskowski's come back, Oliver's crippled Embry and apparently the Army (in the form of the Destroyer) took out Lightfoot. Bonnema mentions how Rose took out Youngblood back in 77-78 again. As best as I can tell, this was set up by Youngblood winning a battle royal as Buddy had been dodging him. Oh man, Buddy prays in the corner before the match. For some reason I find that hilarious. He gets a ton of heat for it. He's blonde again too. Good for him. Buddy pushes him into the corner but Jay flips it around and starts unloading. I really like his standing double axe-handle but the crowd likes the jumping chop more. Buddy sells the migrane and escapes to the apron. Bonnema says he's the strawberry blonde playboy again and that he's basically ruled the roost for five years. When does he leave Portland? 85? That means he has an almost ten year run as a promotional Ace in a promotion with a weekly loop and that gives a lot away on TV. Buddy's back in and immediately working a standing armbar, putting his whole body into it and wrenching away, hammering to cut off Youngblood's attempt to fight back. Youngblood's selling is strong here, as each attempt to punch back causes him agony and allows Rose to hang on, grab the hair and take back over. Youngblood finally creates some distance and but Buddy eyepokes to take back over. After a few chops, he moves Youngblood into the corner and uses the ropes to grind down on the arm. Jay fights back again, making sure to sell huge when he accidentally punches with the bad hand. The subsequent hesitation allows for Buddy to get a cheapshot kick in and start to dismantle Youngblood again. The adrenaline finally kicks in and Youngblood starts to comeback, shrugging off the pain from the hand. His selling has been so broad up until now that it's weirdly acceptable because you know it was by design. He's not just randomly forgetting to sell to get his stuff in. It's part of the story. Buddy turns it around midway through the comeback and they start a big rope running sequence that ends with Buddy trying to go for the Robinson backbreaker but Youngblood riding through, rolling him up off the ropes, and bridging back to win the first fall. This wasn't spaced out exactly as I would have wanted but what they actually did do was all well done and the fans loved the finish. Second fall starts with Youngblood getting revenge on Buddy's left arm. There's only 7 minutes remaining here. Jay steps over and straddles the arm bar and really works it, waving it back and forth and jumping on it. He does two of the nicer looking legdrops onto an arm that you'll see and then starts hammering again. Buddy whiffs and gets wrenched more and pumphandled for his trouble. Jay's showing a fairly huge variety of nice looking armwork here. Buddy tries to fight back again but he gets tomahawk chopped and his arm clotheslined over the top for his trouble. Jay's in complete control here. Jay works a top wristlock and Buddy's facial expressions are great as ever. Buddy finally knees Youngblood out of the ring but Jay immediately grabs Buddy's arm on the apron and drags him to the pole, wrapping it around it. Buddy still manages to catch Jay coming in and in a beautiful exchange, he tries to replicate the roll up off the ropes that lost him the first fall. Jay rolls through, does a double leg trip from behind and drops an elbow on the arm. Great sequence. Jay starts clubbering the arm. Buddy tosses him off but gets put into a backslide off the ropes and this might be as excited I've heard Bonnema for a two count. Jay goes back to the armbar base, and Buddy is selling all over the ring. He clotheslines the arm over the top rope again, then goes up. Buddy tries to give him the old Flair throw off the top but Jay hangs on and rolls through for a nearfall. They're definitely pulling out some novel stuff here. Jay hits a doublechop and Buddy sloooooowly falls backwards. He's selling as if he's been through a war. Two-count, followed by another chop off the ropes for another two. The crowd is really hot for this. Buddy catches Jay with his legs as he bends over to pick him up, but can't roll him over and eats another two count. Another chop to the head. Buddy's late match selling here is awesome. He's selling the arm. He's selling the whole body. He finally hits the ground and at the announcement that there's a minute left, he starts to desperately jog around the ring, in and out to break the count, to stall the time limit out. What a dick! This might be the first time in Portland that I'd be worried about a riot. They call Jay the winner since he won the only fall and Buddy thinks he's going to keep the belt, but Barr goes into business for himself (and prevents the riot), by holding the belt up and making it so next Saturday Rose is going to have to win two straight falls as the match will continue. Yeah, I think I would have bought a ticket for that. Great promotional idea and the match itself was really good. I wish that Jay hadn't totally given up on the arm selling after the first fall but the story sort of shifted from arm selling to revenge arm work so I'm not going to complain too much.

I think they wouldn't keep teasing it unless there was going to be payoff at this point.