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Everything posted by Matt D
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You’re a good son.
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It’s all there in my post.
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I said that was only half of it for that exact reason. It’d be a misconception.
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Double posting to add one additional point. And this is why I didn't post that here and posted something else here instead. DVDVR is not PWO. You want to argue that the Faces of Fear are the best team of the 90s on DVDVR? Great. Go for it. Back your shit up. People will engage and 80% will engage positively if you back your shit up well. PWO has a different feel and a different attitude and that's totally ok. I post a little differently in one place than the other, and I have deep affection for both boards. I'm doing reviews of 89 AJPW that I watch while I'm on a treadmill over there right now. (http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/8657-matt-watches-1989-ajpw-on-a-treadmill/#comments) I'm writing little reviews. Were I to write them here, they'd have a lot more rigor to them. You can make that argument on DVDVR and I think you should be allowed to and not laughed out of the room. If you do it here, it'll be a slightly higher bar. That's ok.
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I said that I wasn't going to make the argument. I just said that someone could make it, and yeah, probably make it easily if they broke down match by match. Would I buy it? Maybe not, but let them make the argument. There's one to make there. My argument and my point was basically three-fold (and yes, NL can disagree, that's fine). Anvil brought more to the table than he gets credit for, and he doesn't get the credit half because people haven't gone back and revisited the footage and half because of workrate dogmatism (But again only half as he still brings something to the table there). Actually, those Hart Foundation matches don't hold up as well as they get credit for and a good chunk of that IS Bret, so the level that Neidhart has to rise to is less than what you'd otherwise think. Someone can make the argument and they shouldn't be laughed out of the room. They should be allowed to make the argument if they think they can back it up. The fact someone would just accept that as dogma and look down at people who have done the legwork and want to voice an opinion on that is bullshit.
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Yeah sure, but you still have to write the zine.
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Yeah, I can do that. It's probably not what you'd think (as in I didn't focus on Henry). http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/8985-february-2021-discussion-of-wrestling/&do=findComment&comment=1076306
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I said what I was going to say about Alvarez' tone and comments over at DVDVR and I'll leave that there, but I'll reiterate here that there was something really earnest about how Khan described his time. Lonce vs the World driving him to defend Robert Gibson's work and start a whole thread is something very different than just being the guy who started the sleaze thread, you know?
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Yeah, it's more indirect. If you're a big draw, you're going to have a big, probably hot crowd. You may be able to have longer matches. You may be able to have matches with bigger stakes. There are opportunities involved in that. We can then see how the wrestler utilizes the opportunities. As per GMT, when we're dealing with the best hundred (or especially the best 25) wrestlers ever, all of them are going to have great matches, and a lot of times, just like drawing power, the sheer number of them comes down to bookings and opportunities as well. So instead of making it a numerical exercise at that point, you break down what a wrestler does with opportunities they have.
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There are ways to recontextualize things like "drawing power" to purely in-ring work by thinking about things like connection to the crowd. Full houses, hot crowds, ok, it's chicken and egg, but what does the wrestler DO with that situation. Look at a guy like Hogan and see how he uses the hot crowd to his advantage in crating a match or how he squanders it. Someone like Cena knows what sort of reaction he's going to get with five-knuckle shuffle set up. How does he use that relative to other people in other situations, that sort of thing. There are a lot of interesting ways to think about "in-ring" other than just great matches. It just all has to come back to "in-ring" in the end.
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This is what I said in the 2021 thread I poked at: So I went with Hodge instead of Londos.
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There obviously needs to be a monthly web-zine with a collected summation of all of the big discussions going on everywhere. I nominate Steven.
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The grand and pathetic journey of the Undertaker at WrestleMania
Matt D replied to El-P's topic in Pro Wrestling
Then there's this casket match:- 206 replies
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- wrestlemania
- undertaker
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(and 1 more)
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I really like the 5/9/94 Tenryu vs Yoko match when I saw it a few months ago: This was great. Totally great. The opening exchange: Tenryu can't chip away at Yoko. Yoko slams him. Tenryu chops him right in the face. Yoko's retaliation in this was the stiffest I've ever seen him and this is a guy who'd crush jobbers in the corner on the regular. Likewise, Tenryu's back brain kicks were able to hit in a way that would have just been impossible against a normal opponent. Obviously, Yoko knows exactly what to give and what not to at this point and the two or three kicks just stagger him so Tenryu can hit the first Russian Leg Sweep I've ever seen him do. Later on it's three clotheslines with the last one flying, etc. Anyway, I'm used to these things going an extra 5-10 minutes and this doesn't. Once they hit the floor and get the weapons involved, it's over, right when it was getting good. Excellent match up though.
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First of all, I'm not entirely sure that all of this is connected to your central thesis, but you're having fun as Steve Austin in one of those late 90s Rumbles at least. Second, You're just doing a pretty poor job of defending me. Just saying.
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It was a turn of phrase, old chum. I meant that instead of using it for the greater good of the match, he was actively harming the quality of the match.
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They should have done a Teddy Long thing where Miz got to be out of the Chamber but he needs to face Edge instead. Safe showcase match for Edge.
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Independent of whether or not they should have been paired in 96, Jose Lothario is miles better than Shawn Michaels. Miles and miles.
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The single team I wish we had footage (save for like one 80s AJPW match where Race was his usual overly giving self) is Race and Hennig. #2 would probably be Valentine and Flair. And it's downright criminal how little Orton and Slater we have. The guilty pleasure team I wish we had more of would be the Jet Set.
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I always personally put Michaels in the same category as a guy like Bruiser Brody. He understood wrestling. He had an excellent ability to do most of the things one needed to do to have an excellent pro wrestling match. Often times, however, he used that understanding to accomplish personal goals and not what would make for the best (or even most productive match). He also did a number of things that he thought he had to do in order to ensure that he got over and stayed over, often to the detriment of the match. Basically he used his power for evil, not good. (Michaels has an extra category for his acting where he had an expansive vision for what a match could be but couldn't actually execute that vision; modern NXT has sort of raised the question of whether any wrestler could and how valid the vision was in the first place).
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Negro Casas it is!
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Double post. Anyway, I forgot how fun GWE was. I also saw the Toyota vs Inoue hour match for the first time recently as I was given it as part of a secret santo and was shocked that I was pretty ok with it. Not that Toyota's making my list or anything...
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Might be disqualifying to Roman though.
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We'll do it next week for NFF. Will loop you in.
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That was my just-in-case Reigns cut off. I’m tempted to not include anyone who has ever worked a five minute WWE finisher spam “good parts only” main event title match out of spite though. We’ll see how I feel in five years.