Matt D

Should we be downplaying the Hispanic audience here?

I really like his sort of ducking forward punch that I've seen him done after he hulks up for his coemback. He had a pretty good jumping back elbow. His clothesline could be good depending on who was eating it (Blackwell for instance). I think he was fairly good at interacting with the crowd. But in general, he doesn't seem very good in the 80s, no.

Good. I have AWA to focus on here, but I'll take a quick look to see if I had missed anything. The only thing I'd really fight for off the top of my head is the 12/28/90 MSG Piper vs Perfect match which is one of Curt's best in the WWF.

I do have a tendency to capitalize the occasional word when I'm excited.

Honestly, it shouldn't. Past MAYBE the LOD/Warrior Six Man which is fun and maybe worth a look there isn't really a set worthy WWF Demos match in 90. There's a great Colossal Connection match that happens a few days before the first of the year, but that wouldn't count. A lot less footage in 90 and a ton of what we do have is Smash/Crush. They just weren't on MSG shows (only on three, one being the six man, another the Orient Express match). A lot of the other avenues had dried up by 90. There are a TON of Hart Foundation vs Demos matches from throughout the year that weren't taped that are probably great, but the one that was taped is a Smash/Crush match and isn't nearly as good as people remember. But they feuded from Mania to Summerslam. It's a shame we don't have any of those. Likewise how the Colossal Connection feuded with Demos from the first of the year to Mania. If the December MSG match is any indication, they probably had some other really good ones. Demos vs Rockers (the Third MSG match) and Demos vs Tito/Brunzell (A PTW match) are both Smash/Crush and while they're both fine, the lack of Ax shows. Neither are close to set worthy. I need to watch Smash/Crush vs Bushwhackers but I don't have high hopes. There are some neat oddities I wish made tape like all the Shawn and/or Marty vs Smash matches. There's an Ax vs Animal match I'd be curious to see and certainly the Warrior Six man where Savage filled in for Ax. But none of this stuff was taped. They ran a lot of LOD vs Demolition and LOD/Warrior vs Demos matches during tapings, but most of those haven't been released as best as I know. Just the MSG and a few Demos vs LOD matches that aren't really worth seeing (most being Smash/Crush). I can go into more detail why I think the Summerslam or Orient Express matches aren't great, if anyone wants, but I don't know if it's necessary. Honestly, I think the best and most interesting Demos match in 90 is vs Baba/Andre. If anything goes on, that should I guess, maybe the Brother Love Show Turn, the Harts/Rockers SNME match with interference and maybe, if you can find one, a Perfect + Demolition pre-Survivor Series promo just for the oddity of Hennig with those three. The reuniting with Fuji is kind of cool too to see them with the Orient Express as a unit but it's hardly necessary. Just a bad luck year between the lack of taped matches in the Andre/Haku and Harts feuds and Ax going down with his condition/injury.

I need to look at WWF match listings and suggest some things. I thought you were further along in the process for some reason. I know I suggested at least a couple over in the DVDVR note but I can do better than that.

I feel like the Bulldogs were the poster children of heel in peril wrestling. They took way too much of a lot of their matches. It might have been more of a problem in their later run though.

I didn't do it.

Dylan, Can you elaborate on your "input-output" classification. Is it just a footage issue or is it the "great matches vs analyzed ringwork" argument.

Ventura?

He's not a machiavellian genius since 1) it sent Baby Doll into Dusty's arms where she could tell him all of Tully's tricks (not that it helped him as Tully won the National belt soon after) and 2) it was a hell of a lot of effort for basically worthless gain. He's more like a super villain with brilliant plans that are completely misguided.

He'd lost the US belt. He couldn't afford her tastes anymore, but he couldn't let himself be seen as crass and no longer a high roller and dump her for that reason. Buying JJ Suits cost a hell of a lot less than bankrolling Baby Doll.

Tully's entire character was about the illusion of class.

In some ways, it was a loaded question from me, since I think Bock is a wildly smarter worker and from I've up til the end of 84 could work just as hard if not harder at his age at that point. I think he may have been more versatile at this point too. And I haven't even seen him work face yet. Granted, I haven't seen a full range of matches either. EDIT: Also, Dylan. You're killing me. Watch that Blackwell/Bravo match! I think it had a lot of what you were looking for in the Robinson match, but loads better, and will be another piece of your Blackwell puzzle, even if it probably wouldn't be more than middle of the pack for me if it were on the set.

Tully could have absolutely been in on it from the get go, you know.

Past Dylan we're all on somewhere between discs 2-4 on the AWA set, tops? Mainly.

Is it too soon for us to start a note comparing and contrasting Bockwinkel and Flair?

I don't get why WM IX was so high relative to VIII and even VII. Was it because Hogan was somehow fresh again? They had just lost Warrior and DBS. Were people so into Luger/Hennig, Doink/Crush, and Hart/Yoko? Michaels/Tatanka? Was there boost because of Raw's debut back in January? VIII was much more stacked card with Sid/Hogan, Flair/Savage, Piper/Hart, Jake/Taker, Diasters/Money Inc. And VII was super stacked relatively. Were just more houses PPV-ready in 93? I can buy that.

The High Rollers: The Gambler, Hustler Rip Rogers, and The Big Don Tommy Rich

I feel like people haven't made enough Repo Man jokes.

I Don't even LIKE Kane that much! I was arguing against a Shawn Michaels match more than anything else there. Then you guys got all hyperbole on me and... bah. Team Mustache: Gator Scott Hall, Big Bully Busisk. Magnum TA.

Road Warrior Hawk, American Starship Eagle, and Birdman Koko B Ware, managed by Johnny Polo.

The Giants of Diplomacy: Sheik Ayatollah Blackwell/Makhan Singh/Panama Gang http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqdLP9Lr1LI

It'd probably be way more annoying if he didn't draw like crazy whenever he did that. Mid-South is a thousand times stronger anytime Watts is on camera or announcing. He was singularly excellent at getting the storylines over in the most passionate way possible and he knew his audience and spoke directly to their hearts. It's not MY heart. It's definitely not your heart. But it's weird to go after something so effective like that.

In retrospect I really didn't dislike Curt's offense THAT much in the match. It seemed a bit scattered but it all looked good. Bret Hart VS Jim Brunzell 05.04.1986 MLG Toronto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17NRltsky-A This is a couple of years earlier and Brunzell has a bit more zing. Nice back and forth early on with some tit for tat stuff before Brunzell starts on the leg. I'm not going to say a ton about this but I will say that Brunzell had the single most important trait for a 80s WWF wrestler: he was really good at wrestling out of a chinlock. Good at timing his hope spots, good at getting yanked back down and good at getting out. Here, the atomic drop where Bret hung on was particularly good. I also really liked the way Bret kicked his foot onto the rope after the dropkick late in the match. Cheap finish but what are you going to do. You want to know a sign that Brunzell was pretty damn good? I don't think Monsoon criticized him once. Worth watching. There's at least one other match between the two I'll try to catch later.