KB8
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I thought that might've been the idea when I watched the feud again a few year ago, but then I read Bret's book and I don't remember him making any reference to that. Given the amount of detail he goes into on pretty much everything, I just assumed that wasn't the plan after all. Shit, the way I recall him describing it in the book makes it seem like was a tad bitter about the whole deal (as in, him being given the belt after Diesel more or less for the purpose of dropping it to Shawn a few months later), and the build-up on screen sort of reflects that.
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Looking at a handheld list, there doesn't seem to be anything in 1989 or 1990. The two matches involving the teams that seem to be available are the 1/15/90 and 2/19/90 matches at MSG. WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 15, 1990 (11,500) Televised on the MSG Network - featured Gorilla Monsoon & Hillbilly Jim on commentary: The Powers of Pain defeated Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty at 9:59 when the Barbarian pinned Michaels with an elbow drop (SuperTape 2) WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 19, 1990 (13,800) Televised on the MSG Network - featured Gorilla Monsoon, Lord Alfred Hayes, & Hillbilly Jim on commentary: Jim Duggan, Shawn Michaels, & Marty Jannetty defeated Mr. Fuji & the Powers of Pain at 16:38 when Jannetty pinned Fuji after Duggan used his 2X4 as a weapon Gotta think the Rockers and Powers were working most of that second match given the length. John The second match is on the Rockers set I bought from Corey a few years ago. I don't remember anything about it now, though. I go back and watch the first match semi-regularly, so I'm assuming I didn't think the six-man hit that level whenever I first saw it (I remember watching it, just nothing specific about it).
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I don't care how bad Warlord was at his worst; the PoP v Rockers match from the 1/15/90 MSG show is just about my favourite match ever and he threw Michaels about 12 feet in the air with a backdrop. He's above criticism in my eyes after that match. Actually, upon checking Cawthon's site it seems there were a bunch of Rockers/PoP matches that month. I reeeealy hope there's a handheld or two floating around out there.
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I don't know whether or not he realised it, but he really did come across as a bit of an ass. There's one of the training videos where seems particularly insecure and takes a bunch of little jabs at Shawn. It's probably unintentional (as in, it was probably more of a roundabout way of taking more jabs at Michaels), but he does a fair bit of ripping on Mexican wrestling as well. All that "Mexican wrestlers aren't tough" shit.
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Flair wrestled Hashimoto? Thought this was pretty fun. Finlay is such a mean little fucker and Savage comes out of this looking like he had to really fight, which was all I really wanted out of a 6 minute match between them.
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*British thing. They show that shit in Scotland, too . Oh man... I love SportsNation (although it's always on when I'm at work), but I had no idea he was ever even on that. Michelle's "This guy might be an honest to goodness lunatic" face in the background makes it even better.
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Was Superstar better than Hillbilly Jim? Or was the one show I remember Hillbilly Jim doing commentary on the ONLY show he did commentary on and therefore wouldn't really be someone worth talking about in a discussion like this? Didn't Neidhart do a few MSG shows in '91? I could swear he was with Monsoon and maybe Jesse for a few matches on Will's Steamboat set.
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I'm not saying he was a certain top 5 in the world, as I would put several japanese workers above him in that context, and I'm not familiar with Mexico, but he's at least Top 2 as far as the US goes. I've thought Eaton was the best in the US in '90 for a couple years now. The MX run that year was really great, and Eaton is just HUGE for all of it. I mean, shit, I probably like Stan Lane more than 90% of the people here, but Eaton was on a totally different level the whole time they were together that year. Like in the Bash match opposite the Southern Boys -- Lane's karate "stand-off" with Smothers is a moment I've always marked for, but other than that, Lane doesn't really do anything of note the whole time. Eaton is pretty clearly carrying his team, and that match is fucking awesome largely because of him and Smothers. I get the sense I'd think his case is only strengthened if I were to get a hold of all the TV from that year. I'd say Dandy, Jumbo and Fujiwara were definitely ahead of him worldwide. I've got a ton of CMLL TV from '90 sitting here that I haven't started working my way through yet, but there are other guys that have looked great in what I've already seen (largely the 1990 stuff that made Will's Dandy set. There being a good deal of trios matches on that set gives you a good look at a decent amount of guys). Don't really know shit about joshi for that year, though. Basically, if he's not a lock for the top 5 worldwide, he's got enough good-great performances/matches that he at LEAST deserves consideration. And limiting it to the US he has a strong case for #1.
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Apparently Hogan is appearing on that Loose Women show tomorrow as well. I found that pretty funny when I read about it, like, 10 minutes ago.
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I ordered this last week as well. Still plugging through '93 and '96, but I'll get started on this one as soon as it arrives, too.
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July: 1. Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJ 7/29/93) 2. Ciclon Ramirez vs. Felino (CMLL 7/9/93) 3. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJ 7/2/93) 4. Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara vs. Masa Chono & Tatsumi Fujinami (NJ 7/14/93) 5. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama (AJ 7/9/93) 6. Kazuo Yamazaki vs. Yoji Anjoh (UWFI 7/18/93) 7. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJ 7/29/93) 8. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi (AJ 7/19/93) 9. Great Sasuke vs. Super Delphin (M-Pro 7/24/93) 10. Sakie Hasegawa, Takako Inoue, Kyoko Inoue & Aja Kong vs. Hikari Fukuoka, Cuty Suzuki, Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (JWP Thunderqueen 7/31/93) 11. Bart Vale vs. Yuki Ishikawa (PWFG 7/21/93) 12. Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty (RAW 7/19/93) 13. Rick & Scott Steiner vs. Ted DiBiase & IRS (Superstars 7/17/93) 14. Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Paul Roma vs. Hollywood Blonds & Barry Windham (WCWSN 7/3/93) 15. Marty Jannetty vs. Mr. Hughes (Challenge 7/18/93) 16. Steve Austin & Brian Pillman vs. Arn Anderson & Paul Roma (Beach Blast 7/18/93) 17. Great Sasuke & Sato vs. Super Delphin & Gran Naniwa (M-Pro 7/26/93) 18. Yokozuna vs. Crush (RAW 7/12/93) 19. Jerry Lawler vs. Brian Christopher (USWA 7/10/93) 20. Road Warrior Hawk vs. Eddie Gilbert (NWA Grand Slam 7/10/93) This might have been my favourite month so far. Really, there is just so much good stuff from July. I'm probably in the minority in liking Hansen/Kawada from 2/28 more than Hansen/Kobashi, but both are in my top 5 for the year and both are tremendous matches that flat out smoke most things in wrestling history. Felino/Ramirez was as great as I remembered it being. Does anybody have a better tope than Ciclon Ramirez? The 7/14 WAR v New Japan tag is probably my straight up favourite match on the whole set at this point. Tenryu was incredible in it; just a total prick to Chono and Fujinami at every turn. Heading into August, knowing what's still to come, I really can't see anybody knocking Tenryu off as my WOTY. Kawada and Hansen round out my top 3 at the moment, but Tenryu has just been phenomenal in everything and is also in 6 of the matches in my top 20 (including my #1). I spoke about the Thunderqueen match in its thread already. I "get it" as a match...it's just not a style I care for all that much.
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I understand why people love this, but I've said it before -- this style really isn't for me. I mean, I was surprised by how much I dug the AJW Captain's Fall match from February that made the '96 set, but this went twice as long, and an hour of it was more than I could handle. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think it was "bad" or anything. Kong was fucking MENACING and I really liked practically everything she did here. The back fist on Kansai right off the bat ruled. The way she'd just shut people down like a monster ruled. She'd come in from time to time and tee off on someone for no apparent reason and THAT ruled. If nothing else, this made me want to see the Kong/Kansai match much more than I did beforehand. I liked Cutie Suzuki as the girl that was pretty clearly fighting an uphill battle (especially the times she wound up in there with Aja). She tries and tries and seems to really want to step up to the plate, but she is just so far out of her depth at points. Aja worked this as "dominant force." Cutie works as huge underdog. Nobody else's role seems as clear cut as that (although I guess Kansai is working as less dominant Aja Kong to her team). I liked Ozaki less than Loss. I'm pretty apathetic towards her in general, and she never really did anything for me here, either. Most of what she does seems pretty scrappy, so I can get behind "Ozaki feels like she's in a war or fight for survival instead of just a normal wrestling match," but I never find myself caring all that much. I have no clue where this'll end up if I get around to making a top whatever list of matches when I get through the whole set. The good was really good, but there's just so much stuff going on at other points with so many momentum shifts that it doesn't leave much of a lasting impression on me at the end. There's a bunch of WAR v New Japan matches that don't have NEARLY as much "stuff" and aren't nearly as ambitious, but the big moments in those matches stick with me. Choshu walking across the ring just so he can stomp Tenryu on his injured arm is a moment that felt bigger to me than any gigantic suplex or spot in this match, including Ozaki's pin with 5 seconds to go. -
Muraco's a really good shout. The TDM and hour draw against Backlund from MSG and Philly respectively are GREAT matches. Then he wrestles Steamboat a a few years later and they mostly bordered on awful. Muraco's performances basically reflected the quality of the matches in question.
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There were a few moments where nothing was really happening, but I'm not sure that wasn't deliberate in order to draw the crowd in for the next big flurry, because they'd often burst into a short spell of rapid sprawling and countering and the crowd would just erupt. There are a few GREAT Anjoh moments in this. I remember the STF spot from the Sano match later in the year, but the STF spot here was just as good, the way he managed to put it on as quickly as he did. Moment of the match for me is where Yamazaki has Anjoh's back and is trying to take him down, so Anjoh grabs hold of an arm, stomps on Yamazaki's foot, and as Yamazaki lets go Anjoh shoots around and tries to lock in a chickenwing. Found myself really hoping Anjoh would get back up at the end. Loved this.
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I agree, Marty was fucking awesome around this time. There's a bunch of really neat stuff in the Doink match, but I put that down to two really good wrestlers coming up with ideas and running with them. Here though, other than Hughes' big bumps off of armdrags (I love Hughes bumping around like that, because he's super athletic for a guy that big), this is a total Marty show and he has a lot of fun stuff to eat up time. Would it be a stretch to call him a top 5 guy in the company that year?
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Man, was Rotunda's drop-toe hold in this the best drop-toe hold in the history of forever or what? The seamless float over into an STF (that Scott scooted away from) was super slick. I really dug this as a whole, but I rewound the drop-toe hold spot a bunch of times.
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Holy shit, this was amazing. This might be the most pissed off and grumpy I've seen Tenryu in this feud, and that covers a whole lot of ground. He walks up to Chono before the bell and cuffs him on the side of the head, and there's a point later where Hara is in full control but Tenryu comes in anyway just so he can full force boot Chono in the face. His riling up of Fujinami is spectacular, spitting on him and flicking sweat at him while Fujinami is standing on the apron minding his own business. Team WAR are such a great pair of cheapshotting bullies. Chono is a good whipping boy and everything, but it could've been anybody in there and it would've been worth it for Hara mauling them with headbutts and Tenryu's nasty short punts right to the eye socket. Really, this was just loaded with moments that I loved -- Hara throwing coconut headbutts, Fujinami's tope, everything Tenryu did, the set up to the finish with Fujinami flying off the top rope with a knee to Hara's head...great stuff. Not my MOTY, but I don't think there's been another match so far that I've flat out enjoyed as much as this one.
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[1996-03-17-NJPW-Hyper Battle] Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Otani
KB8 replied to Loss's topic in March 1996
I'll basically echo MJH 100% here. This was one of my favourite matches a few years ago, but I've liked it less every time since then. I'd still call it "really good," but the style just isn't for me anymore. -
I watched this about 6 months ago and thought it excellent. My thoughts haven't changed from then:
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[1996-03-09-ECW-Big Ass Extreme Bash] Cactus Jack vs Mikey Whipwreck
KB8 replied to Loss's topic in March 1996
I had never heard the actual match being talked about before, which is weird, because I also thought it was really good. Some of the bumps, especially from Foley, really looked nasty as all Hell. Post-match bit was good, too. -
[1996-03-09-ECW-Big Ass Extreme Bash] Rey Misterio Jr vs Juventud Guerrera
KB8 replied to Loss's topic in March 1996
This might be my favourite Rey/Juventud match, primarily because it doesn't have the clusterfuckery that the AAA match later in the month has. They don't do much that you won't have seen out of them by this point, but it's still pretty impressive stuff. The crowd dives will always look super reckless and crazy. -
Man, Kid really blasted Shawn with a few of those kicks. I thought this was an awesome TV match. Bunch of really cool spots, nice build, nice finish...I remembered liking it a lot, and it definitely held up.
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I agree that this was building pretty well until the Luger run in cut the nuts off it. Before that it's largely the same Sting/Flair match you'll have seen before, but that's not a match-up I hate, so it was fine for what it was. Great Dusty moment on commentary: "You're EVIL. EEEEEEEEVIL." Talking about Woman, of course.