tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm not seeing what you guys are in 1998. WWF is atrocious, both from a wrestling and a storyline standpoint. Every match in the WWF, sans a few here and there, in 1998 an be summed up as, "Punch, Kick, Punch, Punch, Clothesline, repeat ad nauseum, Finisher." The stories are driven into the ground and are sophomoric to the point where Daddy Day Care look like high theater. WCW had talent but they aren't doing much of anything with it. Jericho's a great example, because sure he's entertaining, but he's limited to 6 or so minutes in the ring and his promo time is kept way too short as well. Golberg I could care less about. Savage is done for, and legit this time. Sting stands around staring into nothingness as for some reason WCW has decided to have nWo versus nWo where the announcers, and all the remaining WCW wrestlers, apparently forget that red or black, nWo is trying to destroy your company. ECW is really shitty, as in ring it's the same nonsense in every match, "hit a few spots, brawl around the ring, hit a bunch of finishers, the end." Taz is super boring as he's a midget Goldberg who swears every now and then. Tommy Dreamer can't do anything but yell "ECW" and the rest of the roster is consistently hurt by Heyman's terrible booking. Sorry gents, but 1998 is truly a terrible year for American wrestling. The Attitude Era is complete garbage, but ECW and WCW aren't that far behind. Sorry gent, but I disagree. You have Austin v. McMahon when it was truly fresh and making RAW a must see show week to week with everyone wondering what would happen next. Austin v. Tyson stands out as does the show building to Austin v. McMahon that ended the streak. Then you have the Highway to Hell buildup in the summer followed by the Deadly Game booking from October to Survivor Series. Very well done and I love how hot the crowds are, it adds this extra energy. The Austin zamboni segment followed by Taker and Kane killing Vince is one of the best things ever. 1998 WWF is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Not for me, there's only so much boring brawling around ringside masquerading as wrestling that I can take. Dude/Austin from Over the Edge is probably the best the Attitude Era produced, and even that is an average brawl marred by needless outside bullshit. The "needless outside bullshit" is the whole point of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Not for me, there's only so much boring brawling around ringside masquerading as wrestling that I can take. Dude/Austin from Over the Edge is probably the best the Attitude Era produced, and even that is an average brawl marred by needless outside bullshit. The "needless outside bullshit" is the whole point of the match. Which is why the match isn't good. Needless outside bullshit is still needless outside bullshit, no matter how much it's dressed up as being good. The Austin/McMahon storyline is really trite and repetitive after about a month. This is true for pretty much all of 1998 WWF storytelling. And when the storylines are paltry and the in-ring action is terrible, well, you have an awful product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's not needless though. McMahon wants the belt off Austin and is willing to do anything to get it off of him. That's why Brisco and Patterson are there. Vince's reaction when Taker comes out is awesome. I need to watch that match again, it's one of my favourites. "DIS IS NOW A REMINDER" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's not funny though, nor does it make for worthwhile wrestling or an interesting story. It's trite storytelling stretched out for far too long and without the payoff that comes from an actual quality wrestling match. Punch, Kick, Punch, Kick, walk over here, walk over there. No thank you to that garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The over the top intros for Patterson, McMahon and Brisco, Patterson changing the rules, JR getting indignant on commentary, the whole thing is hilarious. The payoff is Austin overcoming the insurmountable odds, plus the crowd gets to see Taker kick some ass for good measure. McMahon's plan is foiled once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The problem with Over The Edge '98 is that the ideas were repeated too many times afterwards. As a one-off match, it was tremendous fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Agreed. WCW really beat that stip into the ground. But you're right, Austin v. Dude is just so much fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why is Taker there kicking ass though? There's no reason for him to be there, and him being there is an example of how contrived the storylines were in 1998 WWF. The payoff should come in the wrestling though, not cheap theatrics and a meandering brawl. Why even bother with the match then, why not just have Austin come out and obliterate everyone and then give them all the bird? It has the same effect and doesn't waste my time with mediocre attempts at brawling. But, in the end that's all the Attitude Era is, a lot of bloated and unnecessary crap that wastes my time by presenting subpar attempts at brawling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm curious - did you watch Austin/McMahon at the time in '98 and still feel this way, even back then? At the time, Austin/McMahon was red-hot because the roles that both characters played -- unpredictable anti-hero and evil authority figure -- felt incredibly fresh for WWF at the time and made every show feel like anything could happen. Of course, this also means that it's going to age incredibly poorly because, now that we're years removed from that time, we know how everything turned out and, unfortunately, the roles that Austin and McMahon played in '98 have been driven into the ground by less engaging performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I really didn't like the Attitude Era back when it was happening, and now I think it's absolute garbage whenever I return to it. What surprises me is how my opinions on WCW and ECW from the same time period have changed. I recall liking those a bunch in 1998, but now I find 1998 to be a terrible year from both of those companies, although not WWF in 1998 terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why is Taker there kicking ass though? There's no reason for him to be there, and him being there is an example of how contrived the storylines were in 1998 WWF. The payoff should come in the wrestling though, not cheap theatrics and a meandering brawl. Why even bother with the match then, why not just have Austin come out and obliterate everyone and then give them all the bird? It has the same effect and doesn't waste my time with mediocre attempts at brawling. But, in the end that's all the Attitude Era is, a lot of bloated and unnecessary crap that wastes my time by presenting subpar attempts at brawling. Taker was just starting to feud with Vince at the time, so he was out there to keep McMahon and the stooges in line since everyone assumed the minute the match started McMahon was gonna pull a Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yes, but why? He wasn't needed, he was just another addition to the match because the match itself couldn't deliver. And in the end Taker doesn't deliver because his presence means nothing and adds nothing to the match. Which is pretty par for the course for Taker throughout all of the Attitude Era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I just told you why. He was there to keep McMahon and the Stooges in line. When the Stooges tried to blatantly interfere with the match, Taker took them both out. His presence added a lot to the match, gave it an extra sense of intrigue. What is Taker going to do exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Not be there and add absolutely nothing to the match. He didn't need to be there, the storyline shoved him into the match at the last minute. His presence weakness Austin as the lone wolf who needs no one's help. He shouldn't be there, and in the end all he does is to knock the match down even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm not seeing what you guys are in 1998. WWF is atrocious, both from a wrestling and a storyline standpoint. Every match in the WWF, sans a few here and there, in 1998 an be summed up as, "Punch, Kick, Punch, Punch, Clothesline, repeat ad nauseum, Finisher." The stories are driven into the ground and are sophomoric to the point where Daddy Day Care look like high theater. WCW had talent but they aren't doing much of anything with it. Jericho's a great example, because sure he's entertaining, but he's limited to 6 or so minutes in the ring and his promo time is kept way too short as well. Golberg I could care less about. Savage is done for, and legit this time. Sting stands around staring into nothingness as for some reason WCW has decided to have nWo versus nWo where the announcers, and all the remaining WCW wrestlers, apparently forget that red or black, nWo is trying to destroy your company. ECW is really shitty, as in ring it's the same nonsense in every match, "hit a few spots, brawl around the ring, hit a bunch of finishers, the end." Taz is super boring as he's a midget Goldberg who swears every now and then. Tommy Dreamer can't do anything but yell "ECW" and the rest of the roster is consistently hurt by Heyman's terrible booking. Sorry gents, but 1998 is truly a terrible year for American wrestling. The Attitude Era is complete garbage, but ECW and WCW aren't that far behind. In retrospect it's really bad, but at the time, that product was cool and it drew a lot of $. It's kind of "you had to be there" to appreciate it. I was in high school at that time and EVERYONE was into rasslin. Only time in my life that everybody was a rasslin fan. Girls loved Rocky. Everyone loved Stone Cold. Mr. McMahon was super over. DX was crazy over. It was nuts. When I go back and rewatch that stuff I don't like it much, but it was huge at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yea and it helped lead to the Austin v. Taker feud that carried through the summer since the next time Taker offered his help, it cost Austin the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ah yes, the Austin/Taker feud that was complete garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 That led to a monster buyrate and really helped turn the tide against WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Not be there and add absolutely nothing to the match. He didn't need to be there, the storyline shoved him into the match at the last minute. His presence weakness Austin as the lone wolf who needs no one's help. He shouldn't be there, and in the end all he does is to knock the match down even further. I'm guessing you didn't watch this stuff as it happened. Taker there totally made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 SummerSlam 98 was like the biggest show of the Attitude era.....the AC/DC HIGHWAY TO HELL video.....damn son..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Not be there and add absolutely nothing to the match. He didn't need to be there, the storyline shoved him into the match at the last minute. His presence weakness Austin as the lone wolf who needs no one's help. He shouldn't be there, and in the end all he does is to knock the match down even further. I'm guessing you didn't watch this stuff as it happened. Taker there totally made sense. As I said above, I did, and he was inserted last minute in a way that didn't make sense within the Austin storyline they were trying to tell. Then of course they went on to copy the Austin/Tag partner he doesn't trust angle the next month, in what was an insipid storyline. And Transformers 4 made a ton of money at the box office, doesn't mean it's any good. Which is my way of saying I'm not about to discuss buyrates and money, two elements of pro wrestling don't interest me at all and don't matter to me as a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I understand not liking it, and you're allowed to like or not like whatever you want for whatever reasons you want obviously, but, and I say this in as polite a way as possible, it comes across like you're trying to start a fight over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm stating my opinion, others are countering that opinion. In turn I am defending that opinion. Others can enjoy 1998 WWF as much as they want, it's not something that bothers me. But, if people are going to counter my opinion I should be allowed to state why I feel the way I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Summerslam had D'Lo/Jarrett, Rock/HHH, Pac/Venus and Taker/Austin as solid to good matches. WCW had Golberg/DDP on PPV, the DDP/Raven/Benoit feud, Jericho, Chavo and Pepe, Luger/Hart, Martel and the Horsemen return. WCW had 4-5 decent to good PPVs that year. They also had Tokyo Magnum as the lackey for Disco and Wright which was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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