Mr Wrestling X Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Cena was obviously way into his stuff with Brock and wanted to make everything as good as it could be Which is why he stood right up following the conclusion of the match, got on the mic and completely wrecked the story of the match... The guy completely fucked the whole point of the match up by his actions at it's conclusion, it was supposed to end with Cena JUST getting the victory and then requiring assistance to get backstage (a'la Undertaker @ WM27) to sell the idea that Lesnar had completely beaten the crap out of him and would have easily won the match had he not been too overconfident and thus allowed Cena the opportunity to cheapshot him with a chain, hit an AA on the ring steps and pull off a fluke three-count. All this would also have served WWE with good storyline reasons in the event they decided to go with a rematch somewhere along the line. The fact that Cena has apparently not been reprimanded for his actions in the "traditional" sense must piss off a lot of the other wrestlers who would find themselves staring at the ceiling for Santino Marella if they pulled this kind of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 There's never been any explanation regarding what the hell Cena was talking about at the end of that show. Why was he cutting a promo about leaving for a while and being happy to go out in Chicago? Seriously, the only explanation I have is that those elbows that split his head open also knocked him half-out and he didn't know what he was doing. Or I guess that Vince was screwing with Lesnar for some reason. There's a lot from that night that doesn't make sense. Meltzer has reported that Lesnar was legitimately pissed off after the show and was tearing things up, but he also hinted that it was partly a work to fool the boys into thinking Cena winning was a good idea. So what was it? That whole night was like a flashback to 1997 WWF where you didn't know what was what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Yeah, I either think Cena was legit out of it and probably thought his arm was more fucked up than it was, and in the moment playing to his women/children audience who were probably horrified by the beating he took, or Vince put him up to it for whatever reason made sense to Vince at the time and Cena the company man run with it. It's entirely possible that either is true Which is why the angle was cool and I thought Lesnar losing could be cool, but the follow up was awful I absolutely do not buy that it was Cena "going into business for himself" off script. Either he wasn't thinking clearly or he was told to do it because it was their idea of work/shoot booking Brock, which clearly was the wrong way to go. But if that was the reason, I'm not going to hold Cena at fault for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 HHH won't work that kind of match, that's for sure. He's the guy who buried Jericho and RVD for working too stiff and I'm sure Goldberg and others too. His mentality is stiff = can't work, not stiff = heightened realism Stiff = can't work AND stiff = heightened realism, depending on which is more convenient to his agenda at the moment. He wanted to bury Jericho and RVD, so their stiffness was a sign they couldn't work. He wanted a 5-star classic with Taker at Mania this year, so his stiffness to bust him open hardway added heightened realism to one of the most laughably unrealistic matches I've ever seen. It's all relative (pun unintended). The question is, what will be looking to get out of his match with Brock: a burial or an epic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 There's also a difference between guys working stiff and potatoing people on Friday nights in Rochester and two guys agreeing to work stiff for the semi-main event of the biggest money show ever. There's no question that RVD brought a lot of heat on himself by busting open several guys during a short span, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 He wanted a 5-star classic with Taker at Mania this year, so his stiffness to bust him open hardway added heightened realism to one of the most laughably unrealistic matches I've ever seen. Totally agree. That's was my exact feeling about his ridiculous promo on Raw the other week when he basically buried Brock and put over his match with Taker at Mania as "realistic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 HHH won't work that kind of match, that's for sure. He's the guy who buried Jericho and RVD for working too stiff and I'm sure Goldberg and others too. His mentality is stiff = can't work, not stiff = heightened realism Just look at his brawl with Lesnar the night after Backlash. Lesnar was clearly taking something off his punches after weeks after some of the most realistic brawling we've seen in years with Cena. HHH the super-worker in his own mind is going to drag Lesnar down into a mediocre "WWE main event" style match, then blame Lesnar when that happens. The only hope is that maybe Lesnar just doesn't give a fuck and forces HHH into his match, but I think he'll just go along with what HHH does. Cena was obviously way into his stuff with Brock and wanted to make everything as good as it could be, everything HHH has done feels like he's phoning it in. And I do think HHH will lose, which a lot of people don't at this point, but it won't be remotely clean. I expect you'll get twenty-five minutes of Irish whips around the barricade and ring steps, a lot of closed-fist punches in the stands, and some dramatically drawn-out chair and sledgehammer blows with a lot of segments (sorry, Loss) of guys laying on the ground gasping for air while the announcers call it "the most brutal epic in SummerSlam history!" How will it end? My guess is a run-in costs Hunter the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Which is why he stood right up following the conclusion of the match, got on the mic and completely wrecked the story of the match... Where he was bleeding and his arm was basically dead and Cena sounded like he had just had the shit kicked out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Where he was bleeding and his arm was basically dead and Cena sounded like he had just had the shit kicked out of him. No, he sounded like a guy who had just spent half an hour performing intensive physical activity. His arm wasn't dead, if it was then he wouldn't have been able to lift Lesnar up for the AA, not to mention the co-operation involved in making sure that Lesnar lands safely. I'm still convinced that the "bleeding" was nothing more than a convincing blade job, because if Lesnar (a mixed martial artist) utilised enough force to bust Cena hardway, the match would have to be abandoned on the grounds that Cena was knocked loopy. If that had been a cut caused by Lesnar opening Cena up with elbows, they'd probably have to end the match and get Cena stapled up backstage. Obviously, the match was a lot stiffer than the normal matches you get in WWE, but in terms of intensity I'd put it behind the HIAC at Wrestlemania purely on the basis that at WM, Triple H and Taker were smacking each other hard across the body with steel chairs. The point is, Cena sold poorly and if it was anyone other than Brock Lesnar, their credibility would be damaged after a stunt like the one Cena pulled at ER (and has done on other occasions too, just look at the miraculous recovery in the I-Quit with Miz last year). He completely destroyed the whole point of the match, which was to make Lesnar look like a killer who was only beaten because of his overconfidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm still convinced that the "bleeding" was nothing more than a convincing blade job, because if Lesnar (a mixed martial artist) utilised enough force to bust Cena hardway, the match would have to be abandoned on the grounds that Cena was knocked loopy. If that had been a cut caused by Lesnar opening Cena up with elbows, they'd probably have to end the match and get Cena stapled up backstage.If there was a blade involved, then that was one of the best cuts in the history of wrestling, because absolutely nobody saw a point where Cena might've gotten juice. He would've had to be smoother than Bret Hart at that shit. And no, getting busted open hardway doesn't work like that. It's a matter of skill, not force. Brock certainly wasn't hitting Cena as hard as he'd hit a shoot opponent. You don't just hit the guy in the head as hard as you can; you take a bony part of your body (knuckle, elbow) and bring it down onto their forehead at an angle which causes a cut rather than a concussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The point is, Cena sold poorly I'm trying to think of more ways to say you are wrong. But basically you're wrong. Cena did a great job of selling the beating. He was selling the arm for over a week at house shows. You're mad Cena won and can't get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 And no, getting busted open hardway doesn't work like that. It's a matter of skill, not force. Brock certainly wasn't hitting Cena as hard as he'd hit a shoot opponent. You don't just hit the guy in the head as hard as you can; you take a bony part of your body (knuckle, elbow) and bring it down onto their forehead at an angle which causes a cut rather than a concussion. Personal example: I was playing with my one-year-old grand-daughter recently. She had picked up a plastic stir-spoon and was carrying it around, and hit me with it. Got me right on the corner of my right eyebrow. It wasn't a hard blow, but it hit at *just* the right angle to split the brow and start it bleeding. A one-year-old using a plastic spoon to do that sort of damage is proof enough to me that it just takes hitting the right spot to start the blood flowing, and it certainly doesn't have to be a hard hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 You're mad Cena won and can't get over it. No, I'm mad that Cena ruined the gravitas of the match by his actions at the end of ER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 You're mad Cena won and can't get over it. No, I'm mad that Cena ruined the gravitas of the match by his actions at the end of ER. Which he didn't. If anything he added to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 In hindsight, the speech made no sense. He didn't go anywhere; so, why'd he lie about going somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The speech was all about Cena making light of everything and being a happy-go-lucky fucktard when he should have been carried on a stretcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The speech was all about Cena making light of everything and being a happy-go-lucky fucktard when he should have been carried on a stretcher. The speech didn't make sense, but I don't see how it was happy-go-lucky. He sounded exhausted and talked about how he was banged up and couldn't lift his arm, which a lot of people thought was a shoot injury due to how well he sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 And no, getting busted open hardway doesn't work like that. It's a matter of skill, not force. Brock certainly wasn't hitting Cena as hard as he'd hit a shoot opponent. You don't just hit the guy in the head as hard as you can; you take a bony part of your body (knuckle, elbow) and bring it down onto their forehead at an angle which causes a cut rather than a concussion. Personal example: I was playing with my one-year-old grand-daughter recently. She had picked up a plastic stir-spoon and was carrying it around, and hit me with it. Got me right on the corner of my right eyebrow. It wasn't a hard blow, but it hit at *just* the right angle to split the brow and start it bleeding. A one-year-old using a plastic spoon to do that sort of damage is proof enough to me that it just takes hitting the right spot to start the blood flowing, and it certainly doesn't have to be a hard hit. You've got a tiny Abdullah the Butcher on your hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Which he didn't. If anything he added to it. Now you're either trolling which I'm not going to play to, or you are easily satisfied by the pro wrestling product - in which case I envy you. It was clear that his talk of "going somewhere" was in reference to the possibility that McMahon and company would be pissed at him for going into business for himself and might get him to a holiday for a while as a consequence. Then again, they obviously liked his impromptu promo because he remained firmly where he was and the "arm injury" was barely mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Anyone who thinks Cena went into his business for himself there is mentally ill. Having said that in the unlikely event that paranoid lunatics are correct this time, Vince is the stupidest man who ever lived for not firing everyone on the production crew for allowing a wrestler on a live mic to hijack his tv time for several minutes without his approval and against the grain of the alleged storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^ I have considered the possibility that it was an "arrangement" made backstage as some kind of jab at Lesnar, given that he was pissed off for not knowing that Cena was going to do this. Has nobody considered that Vince and the production crew were watching backstage, wondered what he was doing, gave it a minute (for the possibility that it could provide a lot of chatter) and wound up actually liking what he was saying to the point that they let it run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Which he didn't. If anything he added to it. Now you're either trolling which I'm not going to play to, or you are easily satisfied by the pro wrestling product - in which case I envy you. Says the guy who thinks Kurt Angle and RVD are better than Randy Savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^ I have considered the possibility that it was an "arrangement" made backstage as some kind of jab at Lesnar, given that he was pissed off for not knowing that Cena was going to do this. Has nobody considered that Vince and the production crew were watching backstage, wondered what he was doing, gave it a minute (for the possibility that it could provide a lot of chatter) and wound up actually liking what he was saying to the point that they let it run? Highly, highly, highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Which he didn't. If anything he added to it. Now you're either trolling which I'm not going to play to, or you are easily satisfied by the pro wrestling product - in which case I envy you. Says the guy who thinks Kurt Angle and RVD are better than Randy Savage. They are in my opinion, besides I CLEARLY stated that I was looking at it from wrestling ability and natural talent. Do you really think that Randy Savage could have done some of the stuff that Kurt Angle and Rob Van Dam do in the ring? Do you really think that Randy Savage had the conditioning of a former Olympian or a kick boxer and gymnast? Do you really think that Randy Savage could put on a 30 minute match that involved the technical precision, athletic intensity and endurance whilst having the energy to sell, communicate with the audience and work efficiently with his opponent(s) that RVD and Kurt Angle have demonstrated on numerous occasions? I'm not taking his charisma and showmanship into account because that wasn't what it was about, but if it was then he would certainly be a lot higher on the list than both Kurt Angle and Rob Van Dam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Speaking for myself but I really think that Savage laps Angle and RVD as a worker. Also where are these allegedly good selling performances from Angle and RVD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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